Boy Racers vs Bikers

Drax

Just reading Seanie M's post there and didnt want to hijack it so just wondering what people's opinions are regarding boyracers with loud exhausts versus noisy bikes.

I guess that non-bikers will throw them all into the 'noise pollution' category whereas bikers will argue that we doont go driving up and down the same street for half the night and that they are a safety feature in that people are more likely to become aware of a noisy bike.

As a biker myself, I can honestly say that my twin unbaffled cans have saved my bacon on several occasions!

layke

Seeing as I am and have been at one time both of the above it doesn't bother me one bit.

Just bikers don't get scrutanized for having a loud exhaust. Also cops don't follow you as much on a bike.

TempestSabre

I think they are equally as bad.

Vegeta

don't mind either to be honest.

it doesn't annoy me in any way

Idleater

As a biker too, I can see (hear ) the safety aspect of a loud exhaust.
In fairness, you do hear them before you see them so there is less chance of walking out in front of them. And in traffic or in town it makes a huge difference between people walking out in front of you or not.

At the risk of sounding hypocritical however, I think that the safety aspect is more prevalent to bikes than cars. Also, "tuning" if you would call it that, a 1L car with a big exhaust is not quite the same as tuning a 1L bike with an exhaust.

I am not overly disturbed by the cars and I like the sound of bikes and it is only a matter of time before I fit a set of "Lancaster bombers flying through a tunnel" to the bike.

L.

TempestSabre

I can't see how the sound helps, its not directional and in traffic the sound could be comming from anywhere, as it bounces all over the place. All you do is piss people off.

Owen

The sound definitely helps. When people hear my bike coming, they look for it. And I make certain to make eye contact with people about to pull out from junctions by blipping the throttle and turning my lid their way.

Drax

TempestSabre wrote:

I can't see how the sound helps, its not directional and in traffic the sound could be comming from anywhere, as it bounces all over the place. All you do is piss people off.

Obviously you are not a biker.

May I also point out that there is a distinct difference in the sound of most bikes and cars with noisy exhausts. I assume you can tell the difference.
Are you telling me that if are on the M50 for example and you hear a loud exhaust you dont know where its coming from?

TempestSabre

If was a biker, would that make an exhaust directional? Or a bike exhaust more directional than a car? That makes no sense. Thats why theres so much research into sirens, because people can't tell what direction they are coming from. Travelling at 70mph I'm not going to take action due to sound, especially one I'm unlikely to hear if its behind me. My visual scan is a different story.

http://www.mcsquared.com/sirens.htm

Seanie M

Drax wrote:

Just reading Seanie M's post there and didnt want to hijack it so just wondering what people's opinions are regarding boyracers with loud exhausts versus noisy bikes.

Nice one Drax!

Bikes don't bother me. You hear them, they pass by, then they're gone. I find scooters more annoying really! Take so long to pass by in comparison, and the noise just grates on the auditory nerves sometimes!

Yeah, a loud bike would probably wake me up at night, but it is not as often as hearing a loud car, so thats why the bike doesn't bother me as much. I live on the edge of the town where I live, so boy racer cars coming in from the countryside direction (rear of my house) decelerate because of a slight bridge+bend, then when they pass it, they accelerate again, farting loudly as they do! Bikes just pass by with less noise.

Seanie.

TempestSabre

So basically if you like a specific loud sound everyone else should. So if (I said if) I liked the sound of 80's Euro Disco music played at mega volume then everyone should like it.

sutty

TempestSabre, I think your missing the point. The "safty" aspect is not that someone knows where you are, but more that you are "there" for a lack of a better term. Same goes for sirens. As for not looking because a sound is behind you. Would you then not look in your mirrors when changing lanes or taking a turn? Because this is what a biker has to contend with on a daily bases. So if someone hears a noise and desides to look about to see where it is. That may just have saved someones life.

The same can be said for peds crossing the street when they are not meant to be. They never look for traffic (goes for both cars and bikes this one) But a nice little blip of the throttle as you see them about to step out, will normaly make them look and stop. This of corse saving their life.


Wise man once say.. "Loud pipes save lifes"

As for "racer boy" exausts. It depends on the car and the size of the exaust. Some look like they are just ripped off a bus and sound really bad. While some are done very well and can give a nice purr to the car. So its really a matter of personal taste on that one. Well unless its a Micra, then its just crap

Hotblack Desiato

I've owned 6 bikes over the years and my current one is the first fitted with a non-standard exhaust (by the previous owner but I also got the standard silencer with it.)

It's louder but not offensively so. It definitely makes a big difference in relation to pedestrians stepping thoughtlessly off the path. Cars are less likely to pull into my right of way (the cause of most bike accidents.)

I did run the standard silencer for a while as this is required to fit the right-hand pannier, but it's just so quiet that I'd be concerned about my safety running with it, certainly in Dublin city. The bike has also been modified to have both dip headlamps lit during the day not just one.

TempestSabre

Blipping the throttle to someone 4 feet away is very different from being on the M50. You don't need noisy exhaust for someone 4ft away to notice you.

Sorry relying on someone hearing you to save your ass is screwy. Doesn't even work for emergency vehicles and they are huge with flashing light and painted bright colors! People still don't see or hear them.

sutty

TempestSabre wrote:

Blipping the throttle to someone 4 feet away is very different from being on the M50. You don't need noisy exhaust for someone 4ft away to notice you.

Well acutuly, this happens all the time. peds will just walk out in front of a bike as they are looking for cars and not bikes. Same goes for people in cars. Oh and on the M50, it still works. I travil the twice M50 every day and at least once a day I will have someone try come into the same lane as me... within the same space. So bliping the trottle normaly makes them look. (Standurd horns on bikes are no good and very little db. Meaning someone in a car will normaly not be able to hear them at all)

TempestSabre

Oh please enough of the bleeding heart of bikers. Peds walk out in front of everyone. Its the the same way bikers, cyclists, and motorist cut each other up all the time, and people don't have 360 degree visibility 100% of the time, or have 100% attention on one task. Such is life. People can hear feck all in a motor car at speed on a motorway, with tye noise, AC or a fan on, and perhaps a radio on and cranked perhaps passengers rattling on. Whats most likely is they suddenly see you, not hear you. I'll agree to disagree. I'm going home to rip the silencer off my yoke. I expect a Moses like parting of traffic in future.

Wonder why emergency vehicles don't just use louder exhausts?

Owen

Ah Tempest, thou art so innocent! My bike? Ducati 916, Termigoni 50mm Exhausts. My girlfriend knows when to reheat the dinner because quite literally she can hear me 2 streets away. As you're not a biker, don't try to discuss a subject you know very little about.

Loud exhausts do save lives, and as a biker, it's a bit more of a worry when a Pedestrian steps out in front of us instead of a car. With a car, there's a prang, that's it. With a biker, the Pedestrian hits us, we loose our balance, our bikes go down, us with it, and it's entirely possible the Pedestrian can be trapped underneath too. And it's a lot more expensive to fix a bike that's been dropped, even slightly, than it is to replace a wing on a car.

TempestSabre

Can your girl friend tell which direction you are approaching from by the sound, or just that you are approaching?

Love the way you could care less about your neighbours and the pedestrian in an accident. Its all me me me isn't it. :rolleyes: Thankfully not all bikers are as selfish.

Chonker

ned78 wrote:

Loud exhausts do save lives, and as a biker, it's a bit more of a worry when a Pedestrian steps out in front of us instead of a car. With a car, there's a prang, that's it. With a biker, the Pedestrian hits us, we loose our balance, our bikes go down, us with it, and it's entirely possible the Pedestrian can be trapped underneath too. And it's a lot more expensive to fix a bike that's been dropped, even slightly, than it is to replace a wing on a car.

Not to mention the hurt Pedestrian....

If it really saves lives. Who could argue.

Stark

Chonker wrote:

Not to mention the hurt Pedestrian....

If it really saves lives. Who could argue.

Darwin could argue

Owen

TempestSabre wrote:

Can your girl friend tell which direction you are approaching from by the sound, or just that you are approaching?

Love the way you could care less about your neighbours and the pedestrian in an accident. Its all me me me isn't it. :rolleyes: Thankfully not all bikers are as selfish.

What kind of a lunatic are you to pull that conclusion from my post? My neighbours happen to love my bike, and a lot of them are considering returning to biking after a 20 year or so absence. And where did I say I wouldn't care about a hurt pedestrian? I clearly stated that one of the downsides of a Pedestrian stepping out in front of a bike is that they too could be trapped under it.

Oh, and by the way, my bike is my commuter. Late at night it's a car I use. I do have consideration for others. I think you'll find no biker is selfish. We all look out for other Motorists and each other to a level a car driver would never aspire to. I can't count the number of times I've helped out a broken down bike, or an L driver who can't change a tire - likewise, I've seen many a biker become a Good Samaritan in similar circumstances.

Issues my boy, you have issues.

sneakyST

ned78 wrote:

. I think you'll find no biker is selfish.

In fairness Ned what about the ones who bang the car mirrors goin through traffic and just keep going or the ones who zoom down the middle of traffic when its dark and wet which makes changing lanes dangerous because its hard to see the bike coming (example would be the N3). Not having a go but its a wild statement

Owen

sneakyST wrote:

In fairness Ned what about the ones who bang the car mirrors goin through traffic and just keep going or the ones who zoom down the middle of traffic when its dark and wet which makes changing lanes dangerous because its hard to see the bike coming (example would be the N3). Not having a go but its a wild statement

Fair statment! And you're dead right. My bad, there is of course examples of scumbaggery in the Motorcycle Fraternity.

TempestSabre

ned78 wrote:

What kind of a lunatic are you to pull that conclusion from my post? My neighbours happen to love my bike, and a lot of them are considering returning to biking after a 20 year or so absence....

ned78 wrote:

...My girlfriend knows when to reheat the dinner because quite literally she can hear me 2 streets away. As you're not a biker, don't try to discuss a subject you know very little about....

So you'd need to be a biker to know that a bike you can hear a few streets away is loud, what kinda logic is that? A 2 year old would know its loud. A blind person would know it was loud. (might not know the direction though) I stand corrected that all the people who can hear you like even love the sound and that noise has persuaded them, young and old to get back out in the leathers. I assumed their might be a a few that didn't like it. But all of them love it. Where do you live Sturgis?

ned78 wrote:

...as a biker, it's a bit more of a worry when a Pedestrian steps out in front of us instead of a car. With a car, there's a prang, that's it. With a biker, the Pedestrian hits us, we loose our balance, our bikes go down, us with it, and it's entirely possible the Pedestrian can be trapped underneath too. And it's a lot more expensive to fix a bike that's been dropped, even slightly, than it is to replace a wing on a car.....

Your concern here is clearly all for yourself. Thats it. The cost, oh dear, how horrific. The pedestrian hits you. I guess their shocking turn of speed surprised you. Its that bleeding heart again isn't. The bike might fall on them. Oh dear, might scratch the tank.

ned78 wrote:

Oh, and by the way, my bike is my commuter. Late at night it's a car I use. I do have consideration for others. I think you'll find no biker is selfish. We all look out for other Motorists and each other...

Yes all those couriers, love the way they let you out, signal clearly, stay in lane, obey all the road signs and signals. Nearly every junction you get to theres a biker waving you out, or leaving a gap for you to filter into. Theres just perfect. Really they should run the driving schools. All that experience gained on a provisional bike licence.

ned78 wrote:

... to a level a car driver would never aspire to. ...

You're also a car driver. So does that apply to you too. Or does your DNA change once you've touched a bike, or spilt your first drop of two stroke?

ned78 wrote:

Issues my boy, you have issues....

What I don't have is a rose tinted visor.

Supercell

I dunno Tempest, being both a Biker and car driver I'd have to say on average bikers do respect each other more than car drivers respect eachother on average on the road.

How often at lights does someone wind down their window and chat to you just because you were parked there beside them?

Bikers don't cut eachother up causing other bikers to brake dangeriously usually in my experience unlike car drivers (some car drivers).

I once had a flat on the bike and a biker stopped, drove up the road for tire sealant and then came back. While I was waiting at least 4 other bikers stopped to ask if I needed help..try seeing if that happens stuck on the side of the road as a male driver with a flat tyre and clearly no spair.

I think amonst bikers ther is a mutual apprection that its dangerious to do, but if the person beside you is out there in the rain or whatever he's probaly doing it because it brings him a lot of pleasure despite the dangers.

Maybe motors is the wrong place to try and rationalise this, just my tuppence worth as a biker and car driver.
Personally think bikers are better off zooming ahead of the traffic, its the safest place to be on two wheels

TempestSabre

Depends what you are in. Sitting in a Porsche you would get other sports car drivers talking to you and stopping to help. They'd also let you out. Ditto a Smart Car, or bus drivers or lorry drivers.

Hotblack Desiato

sneakyST wrote:

In fairness Ned what about the ones who bang the car mirrors goin through traffic and just keep going or the ones who zoom down the middle of traffic when its dark and wet which makes changing lanes dangerous because its hard to see the bike coming (example would be the N3). Not having a go but its a wild statement

if you want to go down the whataboutery road, how about the car drivers who will squeeze a bike into the gutter to make a pass, tailgate to the point when they're almost touching the back wheel because they want to make you speed, reverse into a parked bike causing €000s of damage then do a runner, pull out without looking, pull out and see a bike and keep going because 'size wins', etc. etc. etc.
There's idiots and scumbags in every category of road user so getting into whataboutery is pointless.

kikel

always had a standard car and i hate motorbikes. but the sound wouldn't bother me at all.

Hotblack Desiato

TempestSabre wrote:

Love the way you could care less about your neighbours and the pedestrian in an accident. Its all me me me isn't it. :rolleyes: Thankfully not all bikers are as selfish.

I think this says a lot more about you than about the post you're commenting on tbh.

Owen

TempestSabre wrote:

I assumed their might be a a few that didn't like it. But all of them love it. Where do you live Sturgis?

Did you not see in my previous posts on a similar thread that we both posted in, that it's important not to piss off the people in a neighbourhood with your noisy exhaust no matter how sexy and alluring it is? FFS use your cop on. I'm clearly not a 'boy racer' or a wheelie pulling maniac, and I do respect my neighbours, the fact that they choose to speak to me about their love for bikes plainly shows I'm not out to piss anyone off.

I've no doubt one or two roll their eyes, but the point is that it's not overly loud (Due to being in a high gear, and low revs), and at inappropriate times - conditions that would drive someone to file a complaint with the Gardaí. And before you say it, yes my girlfriend can hear me coming (I can't believe I just typed that), as on the main road near my house I will be in a lower gear at higher revs. Horses for courses.

TempestSabre wrote:

Your concern here is clearly all for yourself. Thats it. The cost, oh dear, how horrific. The pedestrian hits you. I guess their shocking turn of speed surprised you. Its that bleeding heart again isn't. The bike might fall on them. Oh dear, might scratch the tank.

Your anus must be the gateway to an enormous vast cavern of bullsh*t. Firstly, a Pedestrian can dart out in 2 seconds flat in front of any moving vehicle. The stats are there, Pedestrians are killed in single vehicle incidents across the world - daily. Didn't all journalists state when reviewing the Prius that now Pedestrians would walk out onto the roads in front of these new Hybrids because they couldn't hear them coming? QED.

And under no circumstances will I allow you to assume that in an incident with another Human being that my concern would be for my bike alone. Of course you care about your pride any joy, but the more important picture is of the poor sod who could well be injured and need your help.

TempestSabre wrote:

What I don't have is a rose tinted visor.

And that's a pity. If you saw the world with an optimistic outlook instead of your cynical, petty, un-educated and ill-founded views, the world might just be a happier place for you to be in. Buy a bike mate, you're clearly a frustrated car driver

Mods, if I'm a bit OTT, pm me and let me know. Apologies, but the thread was looking like a personal assault there for a post or two!

Owen

ninja900 wrote:

I think this says a lot more about you than about the post you're commenting on tbh.

The most insightful comment on this thread all day!

TempestSabre

ninja900 wrote:

I think this says a lot more about you than about the post you're commenting on tbh.

Well I don't get the logic that a noisy bike isn't annoying and is a safety mechanisim. Whereas a noisy car is annoying and doesn't help with safety.

nereid wrote:

...At the risk of sounding hypocritical however, I think that the safety aspect is more prevalent to bikes than cars. Also, "tuning" if you would call it that, a 1L car with a big exhaust is not quite the same as tuning a 1L bike with an exhaust....

Drax wrote:

J....I guess that non-bikers will throw them all into the 'noise pollution' category whereas bikers will argue that we doont go driving up and down the same street for half the night and that they are a safety feature in that people are more likely to become aware of a noisy bike....

IMO theres the same proportion of noisy bikers, winding up the throttle through estates during the evening/night as there are noisy boy racers. Or for that matter less noisy high powered execs, and sports cars. You can recognise a bike like a R6 from an Aprilla 125, or a Civic Sir from a S4. Like I said at the start...

TempestSabre wrote:

I think they are equally as bad.

But hey if you don't know the people you know you are are bothering...

ned78 wrote:

...I've no doubt one or two roll their eyes...

...who cares just do it anyway.

And from that link I posted earlier...

Sound outdoors falls off in level at 6dB per doubling of distance. The sound at the siren source has a maximum safe level that is largely set by the hearing protection requirements. Let's look at a general example.

Assume the siren level at 10' in front of the vehicle is 100dBA.

at 20' it will be 94dBA

at 40' it will be 88dBA

at 80' it will be 82dBA

at 160' it will be 76dBA

at 320' it will be 70dBA

at 640' it will be 64dBA

Now let's say that you need at least 75dBA of siren level to be audible through rolled up windows and over the car radio. In reality it might have to be 20dB higher if it's a boom car, or a Mercedes, or some other vehicle with very good sound isolation. The maximum warning distance you can get with a siren that begins with a 100dBA at 10' is about 160'.

At 30 MPH (44 ft/sec) closing speed that gives you about 4 seconds of warning for drivers ahead of you. At 60 MPH (88 feet per second) closing speed that only gives you 2 seconds of warning time. That's just the warning time for someone to begin to hear a siren, they still have to react and try to locate the emergency vehicle and then do something about it.

If the car has a loud audio system so that you needed 90dBA of siren level to be audible inside the car, then you only have about 35' of distance where the siren is loud enough to be heard inside the car. You're relying entirely on the flashing lights to warn the kid in the boom car, they likely won't even hear the air horn. At 30 MPH closing speed, that's less than 1 second for the driver to hear the siren and react. At 60 MPH closing speed that's less than 1/2 a second of warning time.

Owen

What has the audio level inside a car got to do with the noise of a Motorbike preventing a Pedestrian stepping out onto the road? All you've done is proven that if someone has double glazing, and a bike is a few hundred feet away, that the noisiest exhaust in the world won't be an issue for them.

It's a safety mechanism from the point of view that if you're on a street with no traffic, and you hear an engine, you're inclined not to step out onto the road without looking. If it's an extremely quiet engine, or worse still a Hybrid or Electric Scooter, you'll step out and get hit.

TempestSabre

Drax wrote:

....
Are you telling me that if are on the M50 for example and you hear a loud exhaust you dont know where its coming from?

sutty wrote:

...Oh and on the M50, it still works. I travil the twice M50 every day and at least once a day I will have someone try come into the same lane as me... within the same space. So bliping the trottle normaly makes them look. (Standurd horns on bikes are no good and very little db. Meaning someone in a car will normaly not be able to hear them at all)

Thats what's been suggested as a safety mechanisim on a motorway...

ned78 wrote:

....My girlfriend knows when to reheat the dinner because quite literally she can hear me 2 streets away....

Well either you can hear it or you can't. You guys need to get your stories/myths straight. I still don't see how a bike sound is usefully different from a car in determining direction. A pedestrian not paying attention, is usually oblivious to everything.

Assuming sound is so useful as a safety feature (for bikes only apparently) why is the sound restricted on production vehicles? You'd think they'd make them all sound like Harleys or a rung out R1 or 996.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_pollution
http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/noise/research/climate/nannexb.htm

Drax

TempestSabre wrote:

Thats what's been suggested as a safety mechanisim on a motorway...

Huh?

TempestSabre wrote:

Oh please enough of the bleeding heart of bikers.

Are you actually reading these posts, or are you on a one-man anti-bike mission??

TempestSabre wrote:

Well either you can hear it or you can't. You guys need to get your stories/myths straight. I still don't see how a bike sound is usefully different from a car in determining direction.

You are twisting this discussion. A loud bike is usefully different in that a car should not have to rely on a blip to alert another driver about its presence. The simple fact that bikes can appear almost from nowhere in seconds as well as the fact that they usually less visible than cars, means that anything that makes other drivers aware of it is useful.

Get a life - Get a bike!

overdriver

I'm an ex-biker, been off them for a couple of years now.
The guy up the road from me here has a Harley with biblically loud pipes. He wakes me up every morning at 6.30, and sometimes earlier, but I work nights,so I am not best pleased. I would like to see some evidence that they save lives, frankly. My experience riding bikes was that safety was down to me, not relying on others to see me, or hear me.
I think this "loud pipes are there for the biker's saftey" argument is churlish and childish, and if the EU have anything to do with it, it wouldn't be allowed anyway.
AFAIK it's illegal in the UK, but might not be here.

Owen

TempestSabre wrote:

Well either you can hear it or you can't. You guys need to get your stories/myths straight. I still don't see how a bike sound is usefully different from a car in determining direction. A pedestrian not paying attention, is usually oblivious to everything.

You really know how to selectively quote to try and piece together what's left of your argument, lol. If you were brave enough to quote my full reply to you, and not what would bolster your argument, you'd see that I explained - in simple words - just how she hears me coming, and the steps I take to make sure my neighbours aren't annoyed either.

It seems that you're the one who needs to get your quotes straight, and present a decent argument.

sneakyST

ninja900 wrote:

if you want to go down the whataboutery road, how about the car drivers who will squeeze a bike into the gutter to make a pass, tailgate to the point when they're almost touching the back wheel because they want to make you speed, reverse into a parked bike causing €000s of damage then do a runner, pull out without looking, pull out and see a bike and keep going because 'size wins', etc. etc. etc.
There's idiots and scumbags in every category of road user so getting into whataboutery is pointless.

I was merely replying to a comment made. I never said there wasnt gobsh***s in every category :rolleyes:

Owen

overdriver wrote:

IThe guy up the road from me here has a Harley with biblically loud pipes. He wakes me up every morning at 6.30, and sometimes earlier, but I work nights,so I am not best pleased. I would like to see some evidence that they save lives, frankly.

Have a look at one of my earlier posts. If you were a Pedestrian in a small town about to step out onto the road between parked cars and it was a Hybrid approaching, or a quiet car, you could easily be knocked down if you didn't use the old chesnut - The Safe Cross Code. But if you hear a loud enough vehicle approaching whether it's a bike, truck, bus ... automatically, and subconsciously, you'll be timid about placing one foot forward without ascertaining what's causing the din.

Idleater

overdriver wrote:

... and if the EU have anything to do with it, it wouldn't be allowed anyway.
AFAIK it's illegal in the UK, but might not be here.

Well as far as I know there is EU laws regarding noise emmissions.

And, just to prove you (and TS) wrong (sort of) about bike manufacturers not producing "loud" exhausts, they actually do.

The noise safety aspect of bikes is well known as many biker posters have stated here in this thread, and this is taken into account by the manufacturers. However, in order to pass EU regulations, they must do a "drive by" test at 5000rpm and the sound level must not be over 80 db (I can check what is stamped on my exhaust later on if you really want to know the specifics).

However, what they do, is they engineer a drop in performance just after 5000 rpm, which reduces the noise in order to pass the test, but leave the rest of the power curve unaltered. Aftermarket exhausts flatten out this drop in the curve. You can see an example of this

You can liken this to car manufacturers getting 5* safety record for head on collisions, but engineering their cars to pass this specific test, where it can be shown that very very rarely do incidents occur at precicely 0 degrees head on.

It's all legal, and it is done by everyone - car, bike, truck etc etc etc.

L.

Owen

TempestSabre wrote:

Assuming sound is so useful as a safety feature (for bikes only apparently) why is the sound restricted on production vehicles? You'd think they'd make them all sound like Harleys or a rung out R1 or 996.

Simply, most bikes, and cars, are restricted in terms of noise, and more importantly, due to Emmissions. Some aren't restricted at all ... to use your own words .... (And this cracks me up)

TempestSabre wrote:

You'd think they'd make them all sound like Harleys

Most important of all, not everyone's tastes are the same.

Drax

overdriver wrote:

My experience riding bikes was that safety was down to me, not relying on others to see me, or hear me.

Of course it is. But do you not think that loud pipes add to the full presence of your bike on the road. When you had bike(s), did you have loud exhausts or standard ones?

overdriver wrote:

AFAIK it's illegal in the UK, but might not be here.

Yep - this is true. It doesnt seem to be a deterrent to most UK bikers though! I think for their MOT, they have to put original exhausts back on their bikes - great for selling standard cans on Ebay!

overdriver wrote:

churlish

Had to look that word up on the web. I feel stupid now...

TempestSabre

Drax wrote:

Huh?
Are you actually reading these posts, or are you on a one-man anti-bike mission??

I've no agenda. I've said quite clearly I'm anti noisy cars AND bikes. That all the bikers choose to only focus on anti noisy bike comments. Kettle.. black.

Drax wrote:

You are twisting this discussion. A loud bike is usefully different in that a car should not have to rely on a blip to alert another driver about its presence.

Why not. If a person isn't looking they are not looking. They won't see a double decker bus. I don't get that point at all.

Drax wrote:

The simple fact that bikes can appear almost from nowhere in seconds as well as the fact that they usually less visible than cars, means that anything that makes other drivers aware of it is useful.

So in a couple of seconds someone can determine the direction of a vehicle faster than looking, and move to safety? We're taking 2-4 secs. I don't buy it. A car is slower and thus a person has more time to react. But apparently noise isn't a factor for cars, unless your one of the massive fleet of hybrids on the road.

TempestSabre

ned78 wrote:

You really know how to selectively quote to try and piece together what's left of your argument, lol. If you were brave enough to quote my full reply to you, and not what would bolster your argument, you'd see that I explained - in simple words - just how she hears me coming, and the steps I take to make sure my neighbours aren't annoyed either.

It seems that you're the one who needs to get your quotes straight, and present a decent argument.

If you look at the context of ned78 comment re: double glazing. The point of the quote was either you can't hear a bike through double glazing or you can hear streets away. You can't have it both ways. It wasn't quoted (in that instance) as indication of your empathy (or lack thereof) for your neighbours.

TempestSabre

nereid wrote:

....in order to pass EU regulations, they must do a "drive by" test at 5000rpm and the sound level must not be over 80 db (I can check what is stamped on my exhaust later on if you really want to know the specifics).

However, what they do, is they engineer a drop in performance just after 5000 rpm, which reduces the noise in order to pass the test, but leave the rest of the power curve unaltered. ....

ned78 wrote:

Simply, most bikes, and cars, are restricted in terms of noise, and more importantly, due to Emmissions. Some aren't restricted at all ... to use your own words .... (And this cracks me up) ...Most important of all, not everyone's tastes are the same.

Whats this got to do about taste?

Any vehicle thats noisy, is deliberately noisy, as you can choose to moderate the rev's and drive quietly where appropriate. That point was better made in the other thread. In context of this topic title, this thread is not about people blipping the throttle at a set of lights, but being deliberately noisy where its not appropriate, and is noise polution.

For me that applies equally to cars and bikes. I would have thought that should make me anti car and anti bike, but with the usual consistency by some it only makes me anti bikers for some illogical reason.

professore

TempestSabre wrote:

Can your girl friend tell which direction you are approaching from by the sound, or just that you are approaching?

Love the way you could care less about your neighbours and the pedestrian in an accident. Its all me me me isn't it. :rolleyes: Thankfully not all bikers are as selfish.

I think you are the selfish one.

Speaking as an ex biker (because riding a motorbike is brilliant but dangerous and I've got 3 kids) it's simple ... if someone cuts you off when you're in a car and you crash into them you have a fair to good chance of living. If you're on a motorbike you are dead. Plus I would say motorbikes are cut off 10 times more often than cars as people don't see them. I think this outweighs any politically correct BS about making some noise. Maybe cars should turn off their lights at night as it might annoy some residents.

I always look out for bikers but even I miss them sometimes - and most people are not even aware of them.

Hotblack Desiato

TempestSabre wrote:

Why not. If a person isn't looking they are not looking. They won't see a double decker bus. I don't get that point at all.

The difference is the bikes can move, legally, when cars can't.
Pedestrian sees stopped car and assumes that that means ALL traffic is stopped, it doesn't.

So in a couple of seconds someone can determine the direction of a vehicle faster than looking

They don't need to determine its direction. Just that SOMETHING is coming and that they need to stop long enough to re-engage brain.

But... I really get the impression that you couldn't care less as long as you think you're scoring debating points here.

Hotblack Desiato

overdriver wrote:

The guy up the road from me here has a Harley with biblically loud pipes. He wakes me up every morning at 6.30

These Harley riders (it's always middle age crisis Hardly Driveable pilots) running totally open pipes are the scum of the earth in my opinion and give all motorcyclists a bad name. There's a huge difference between loud enough to be heard and loud enough to make ears bleed.

Drax

ninja900 wrote:

I really get the impression that you couldn't care less as long as you think you're scoring debating points here.

Agreed. Although, in fairness to TempestSabre, he is certainly putting a lot of effort into his posts!

maidhc

From a quick glance at the thread I think Tempest's points are the most reasonable!

My own opinion on bikers and safety is that they tend to be their own worst enemy. I don't think noisy exhausts help much on greasy bends, and bikers could make themselves much easier to see if they obeyed lane markings and stayed where one would normally expect to be seeing motor vehicles.

TempestSabre

ninja900 wrote:

The difference is the bikes can move, legally, when cars can't.
Pedestrian sees stopped car and assumes that that means ALL traffic is stopped, it doesn't....They don't need to determine its direction. Just that SOMETHING is coming and that they need to stop long enough to re-engage brain.

Sorry but your talking about a very specific instance. Even then its questionable how effective a loud exhaust is in the couple of second before you're on top of them. People could be on the phone, listen to a walkman, deaf, etc. A loud exhaust is not a standard signal. A horn is. Why not use that. In heavy traffic theres a lot of other ambient noise, trucks, buses, boy racer with drum and bass and 4" through pipe.

ninja900 wrote:

But... I really get the impression that you couldn't care less as long as you think you're scoring debating points here.

Well its is a forum for debate isn't? I don't get the logic of anti noise=anti bike. if I said I thought buses were too noisy would I then be anti buses? Or that noise is an effectrive safety measure, or that is only effective for bikes and not cars. Besides this is well off topic. The issue was anti social noise not blipping the throttle as the lights change, or lang changing on a motorway. Its not cars are evil bikes/bikers are perfect thread. Though all threads with bikers usually end up there.

Its about anti social noise, not blipping the throttle in heavy traffic. I shouldn't have taken that bait and side tracked. My bad.