Interesting Stuff Thread

PopePalpatine

I guess J C's "conventional science qualification" probably amounts to being a college dropout. :pac:

Brian Shanahan

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I guess J C's "conventional science qualification" probably amounts to being a college dropout. :pac:

Where did he disappear to anyways?

obplayer

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Where did he disappear to anyways?

Gone for a real education I hope.

pauldla

Tim O'Neill debunks some myths about the Middle Ages. Interesting reading!

http://www.quora.com/What-are-examples-of-things-that-are-common-knowledge-about-history-that-historians-almost-universally-consider-incorrect/answer/Tim-ONeill-1?srid=h6K&share=1

robindch

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Where did he disappear to anyways?

Still contributing over The Fence.

Brian Shanahan

robindch wrote: »

Still contributing over The Fence.

I'm still banned from there. Best thing that's happened to me frankly. Keeps all the stupid, the homophobia, the fundamentalism &c. invisible.

Hotblack Desiato

Shrap wrote: »

Looks like an interesting book, although isn't being published till next year: Edzard Ernst’s memoir, A Scientist in Wonderland, will be published by Imprint Academic in March 2015

Ernst has an Irish Times piece here http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/standing-up-for-the-truth-about-homeopathy-and-nazi-medicine-1.2138835

Writing in the Sueddeutsche Zeitung, a journalist disclosed that Claus Fritzsche, a German journalist who had systematically defamed me for my negative stance on homeopathy, had done this with substantial financial support from five German homeopathic manufacturers. One of the firms paying him was owned by the son of Goebbels, the only one of his children who escaped the family’s 1945 mass suicide in Hitler's bunker.

Now I had to ask myself whether the attacks against me were motivated by my open disclosures about homeopathy or by my equally open disclosures of Nazi medicine? I had hoped that, some day, Fritzsche would give me an answer. Sadly answering this question is no longer possible: a few months after these events Claus Fritzsche took his own life.

A short paragraph from my memoir sums it up well, I think:

"When science is abused, hijacked or distorted in order to serve political or ideological belief systems, ethical standards will inevitably slip. The resulting pseudoscience is a deceit perpetrated on the weak and the vulnerable. We owe it to ourselves, and to those who come after us, to stand up for the truth, no matter how much trouble this might bring."

obplayer

Robert Sapolsky explains how to civilise the world.

Shrap

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Ernst has an Irish Times piece here http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/standing-up-for-the-truth-about-homeopathy-and-nazi-medicine-1.2138835

Thanks for that. He's certainly made it his life's work to go about debunking this stuff, and his "hobby horses" seem to have made him one or two enemies over the years. Just looked up his website and even the comments on his blogs make very interesting reading (and some lessons in how to debate this stuff rationally). http://edzardernst.com/2015/03/15-arguments-for-homeopathy/#comments

pauldla

Bertrand Russell's Liberal Decalogue

1. Do not feel absolutely certain of anything.
2. Do not think it worth while to proceed by concealing evidence, for the evidence is sure to come to light.
3. Never try to discourage thinking for you are sure to succeed.
4. When you meet with opposition, even if it should be from your husband or your children, endeavor to overcome it by argument and not by authority, for a victory dependent upon authority is unreal and illusory.
5. Have no respect for the authority of others, for there are always contrary authorities to be found.
6. Do not use power to suppress opinions you think pernicious, for if you do the opinions will suppress you.
7. Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.
8. Find more pleasure in intelligent dissent than in passive agreement, for, if you value intelligence as you should, the former implies a deeper agreement than the latter.
9. Be scrupulously truthful, even if the truth is inconvenient, for it is more inconvenient when you try to conceal it.
10. Do not feel envious of the happiness of those who live in a fool’s paradise, for only a fool will think that it is happiness.

From brainpickings

CramCycle

pauldla wrote: »

Bertrand Russell's Liberal Decalogue

Should be renamed the 10 rules for research and development diplomacy in meetings, I am about to send it round to my co workers.

KomradeBishop

Following from earlier discussion, the World Health Organization, lists the glyphosate herbicide (in Monsanto's Roundup) - as 'probably carcinogenic'; this is one of the most commonly used herbicides (and with many GM crops being specifically engineered for use with Roundup):
http://triplecrisis.com/world-health-organization-gm-crop-herbicide-a-probable-carcinogen/

oscarBravo

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Following from earlier discussion, the World Health Organization, lists the glyphosate herbicide (in Monsanto's Roundup) - as 'probably carcinogenic'; this is one of the most commonly used herbicides (and with many GM crops being specifically engineered for use with Roundup):
http://triplecrisis.com/world-health-organization-gm-crop-herbicide-a-probable-carcinogen/

Hmm. It seems it has joined "being a fry cook" and "cutting hair" in the cancer risk leagues: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/widely-used-herbicide-linked-to-cancer/

Some academic scientists have sounded notes of caution over the IARC report. Oliver Jones, an analytical chemist at RMIT University in Melbourne, told the Science Media Center in London: “IARC evaluations are usually very good, but to me the evidence cited here appears a bit thin.” He added: “From a personal perspective, I am a vegetarian so I eat a lot of vegetables and I’m not worried by this report.”

KomradeBishop

As well as "petrochemical refining" as a profession, exposure to UVA/UVB, exposure to lead, mustard-gas-derived chemotherapy agents (and other cancer therapy drugs) and nitrates/nitrites (well known cancer risk in many foods) - none of these are equivalent in risk though, they are all just in the same grouping:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IARC_Group_2A_carcinogens

Interesting that you select the most easily-played-down class 2A carcinogens though, and pour doubt on them as a whole, as if they are all equivalent.

oscarBravo

KomradeBishop wrote: »

...none of these are equivalent in risk...

Well, yes. That's my point. When we have consensus about the level of risk, I'll decide whether or not to panic.

KomradeBishop

Nobody's saying to panic; what this does, is undermine the current consensus that there is no risk, so I don't see the need to try and pour doubt on it.

recedite

Out of the 3 listed Cat 2a carcinogens in that scientificamerican.com article, I have 2 on my shelf, for use in the garden; malathion and glyphosphate. But I reckon I'll be fine so long as I don't drink them, or dye my hair with them.

So the salient points are;
1. Don't ingest or absorb toxic chemicals (they are "probably" bad for you)
2. This has SFA to do with whether GM foods are bad for you.

CramCycle

At no point before or after this report did I think that herbicides would be a good thing to eat drink or touch.

KomradeBishop

There was never a suggestion inherent in the report that GM foods are bad for you, or that ingesting herbicides would be a good idea - it is known however, that GM foods which rely upon heavy use of roundup, are often highly contaminated with roundup/glyphosate - i.e. involve ingesting this probably cancerous herbicide.

So obviously, the new report indicates that foods contaminated with glyphosate - a well documented issue, as far as I can tell from an initial search - is definitely a problem and probably a cancer risk.

recedite

Right, but the anti-GM brigade conducts a fairly successful campaign to conflate the toxicity of herbicides with the toxicity of GM foods. Even though you are far more likely to be ingesting glyphosphate and other herbicides and pesticides via non- GM foods. Make that "definitely" ingesting them through non-GM in Ireland.
Some GM crops are less likely to contain toxic chemicals than non GM equivalents, such as the GM blight resistant potatoes I linked to earlier.

KomradeBishop

Why are you lumping me in with the 'anti-GM brigade'? There's a danger here, of downplaying valid concerns, just because you perceive someone to be on the opposite 'side' of a debate.

I'm not talking about toxic herbicides/pesticides in general either, I'm talking about glyphosate specifically, so it's a bit odd to see the concerns with glyphosate get played down using whataboutery - i.e. 'What about these other herbicides? Or what about these other non-GM foods, containing glyphosate?'.

I mean fair enough, those are other valid concerns as well (in addition to, not in competition with, glyphosate) - but I don't see why they should distract from the issues with glyphosate specifically, or the GM foods relying specifically on glyphosate.

I'd be pro-GM, but extremely hyper-skeptical (bordering on cynical) of the ethics/standards of the biotech/GM industry; a lot of other pro-GM folk don't seem to have that skepticism/cynicism, even though it is well-earned by that industry.

recedite

KomradeBishop wrote: »

.. but I don't see why they should distract from the issues with glyphosate specifically..

If you are only concerned with that one chemical, stop eating crops sprayed with it shortly before harvest, such as potatoes, which frequently are.
Glyphosate is in common use, but is not a GM issue in this part of the world.

magicbastarder

http://aeon.co/magazine/culture/why-does-god-care-only-about-stuff-that-matters/

an article on why people assume that god cares so much about 'misbehaviour'.

robindch

"Going Clear" is a new documentary film which delivers a significant pwnage of Scientology. The film is based upon the book of the same name.

In turn, the book itself is based upon a New Yorker article called "The Apostate" and to celebrate the film's release and success, the magazine has made the original 25,000 word article available:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/02/14/the-apostate-lawrence-wright?mbid=social_facebook

silverharp

I thought this was cool , what are the chances of having an atheist camp for kids in Ireland....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URDmkafg9Kk

obplayer

silverharp wrote: »

I thought this was cool , what are the chances of having an atheist camp for kids in Ireland....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URDmkafg9Kk

Better than they were 30 years ago, that's for sure.

Hotblack Desiato

Derp. Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors conference.

http://www.independent.ie/incoming/gardai-concerned-that-walkie-talkie-sets-pose-risks-to-their-health-31106348.html

Association vice president Willie Gleeson said Tetra was an encrypted and safe radio system, that could not be hacked.

But he said members were concerned about the health issues and an investigation should be carried out now to determine if action should be taken.

He said some experts had warned that using the Tetra sets indoors was similar to being in a microwave oven.

The only protection for gardai using their sets in a patrol vehicle was to wind down the windows.

Well I suppose that winding down the windows would let the nasty microwaves out. That's logical. Our finest anti-criminal minds are at work here.

Pherekydes

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Well I suppose that winding down the windows would let the nasty microwaves out. That's logical. Our finest anti-criminal minds are at work here.

Completely logical. Lets out excess steam.

TheChizler

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Derp. Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors conference.

http://www.independent.ie/incoming/gardai-concerned-that-walkie-talkie-sets-pose-risks-to-their-health-31106348.html



Well I suppose that winding down the windows would let the nasty microwaves out. That's logical. Our finest anti-criminal minds are at work here.

And that was published yesterday, barely. I was hoping the explanation would be the day that's in it.

Pherekydes

I note on the data sheet that it provides up to 10w transmit power. That would be one ninetieth the cooking power of a 900w microwave, plus it's not 'aimed' at the "food". :rolleyes: