Weekend Unrest discussion (merged)

StarryBud

What the hell? I wake up this morning to hear about an arson attack yesterday in which two kids were burned.

And now it transpires Moyross went nuts and there was petrol bombs flung every which way - one RTE reporter debunked reports of 2000 petrol bombs being let off in the city.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=12990-qqqx=1.asp

Not only that, when I was coming out of the Storm cinema last night there was a ton of joyriders gathered in the (small) parking lot in front, racing around at high speed as people were coming out of the cinema and trying to get back to their cars. When I got home I could here other racers speeding around nearby.

This city is going to hell. Moyross should be burned to the ground - the county council has succeeded in turning it into a ghetto. I don't feel safe in this city any more and last night confirmed this is a very real fear. Maybe I'll just move to Dublin. Jesus.

hobie

How about trying Bait Cars ?

http://www.baitcar.com/videos/this_is_easy

gazzer

There were residents from Moyross on Gerry Ryan this morning talking about how their lives are been made hell from those scumbags.. What the fcuk is going on there..

motormouthmable

lovely news for the city's reputation and a bit of attention in the newspapers...
what is a stabbing in Dublin against throwing a pertol bomb in a car carrying two children?

Sunn

bad form alright. What were the people in moyross saying on gerry?

scrattletrap

It is shameful what happened to those poor children, no excuses, something real needs to be done about Moyross* and law breakers in general around this city.

(* of course I refer to the antisocial aspect of Moyross not the hard working citizens who have no choice but to live surrounded by these people and end up categorised with them)

Karmafaerie

StarryBud wrote:

I don't feel safe in this city any more and last night confirmed this is a very real fear. Maybe I'll just move to Dublin. Jesus.

Yeah, the 7 1/2 times more crime per capita would make you feel much safer!:rolleyes:

P.S: I know a lot of people who live out in Moyross, and as scrattletrap said, 99% of the population are decent people. It's just a few scumbags that cause the rest to get roped in and given the same reputation.

The county council can't be blamed either. The problems facing the area were layed down in stone when the place was built. there was no future planning given to Moyross and now we're paying the price.

motormouthmable

But there is maybe a difference between "felt safety" and "real" safety.

popcorn anyone?

1huge1

well to be honest gerry ryan wasnt giving limerick a hard time but moyross (and of course he is right)
he had thought that all the stuff had ended (so opinions had finally changed and this happens...)
but he recognized that this kinda stuff happens in run down urban areas all around the country and not just limerick

he said that limerick in general is a safe place

surely there are somethings that the council can do sure???

a ballymun type of thing?

Poxyshamrock

Just want to say 1 thing, the title to this thread isnt very suitable, after all it was only petrol bombs in one estate not a nuclear bomb in the city centre!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

billy the squid

I've changed the thread title as the original one was a little misleading.

I hate to say it but the only way to deal with this kind of behaviour is to do what the city of Coventry did in the 1980s. Coventry had a notorious reputation for being a centre of crime and violence in the 1980s, problem clubs were closed down and curfews were put in certain places. These were lifted several years later however

At the same time vast parts of the city were torn down and rebuilt. We are not talking the odd building here and there, we are talking entire streets razed to the ground and rebuilt again.

Areas like moyross and southill need to be broken up. This is starting to take place in Southill with the de-population of the O'Malley Park area. It needs to start in Moyross now.

Crea

The two children are having surgery today. I hope they're OK.

The gardai have people in custody and I hope the book is thrown at them - even if they weren't involved in the car incident. A clear message has to be given out that this type of behaviour won't be tollerated. The more I hear about these people who think they can behave any way they want, the more I think that we should introduce some type of hard labour element to prison. How about reducing their dole anytime they have get a conviction - mind you then they'd just rob old ladies to make up the differences.
Sorry about the rant i'm just so mad that people are so cavalier with other peoples lives.

The Muppet

motormouthmable wrote:

lovely news for the city's reputation and a bit of attention in the newspapers...
what is a stabbing in Dublin against throwing a pertol bomb in a car carrying two children?

It's time for limerick to wake up and realise that the problems are not a figment of the media's imagination. I have good friends living in Limerick so I know it's small element responsible for the trouble but burying your heads in the sand and blaming the media is ignoring the real social problems that so obviously exist in the area.

I'm from Dublin and I know we have real problems here too but I have never witnessed anything as sickeneing as the attack on these poor kids. If the people from Moyross who spoke of the radio are to be believed this is not an isolated incident.

Apparently in that area you can have your car burnt out for refusing to give someone a lift or be mugged if you refuse to give someone a cigarette. In Dublin you dont have to have to look at who is hanging around the shops before venturing down to them. These were all incidents recounted live on air yesterday by a resident of Limerick, they are not the an invention of the media.

1huge1

The Muppet wrote:

It's time for limerick to wake up and realise that the problems are not a figment of the media's imagination. I have good friends living in Limerick so I know it's small element responsible for the trouble but burying your heads in the sand and blaming the media is ignoring the real social problems that so obviously exist in the area.

I'm from Dublin and I know we have real problems here too but I have never witnessed anything as sickeneing as the attack on these poor kids. If the people from Moyross who spoke of the radio are to be believed this is not an isolated incident.

Apparently in that area you can have your car burnt out for refusing to give someone a lift or be mugged if you refuse to give someone a cigarette. In Dublin you dont have to have to look at who is hanging around the shops before venturing down to them. These were all incidents recounted live on air yesterday by a resident of Limerick, they are not the an invention of the media.

as true as what you said is dublin is worse than limerick fact

darkman2

Apparently there was an attempted child buring down there What f*cking scumbags:mad: Have they caught these gougers yet? They should be strung up:mad: :mad:

Burying, burning or burrowing? Major difference between the three.

darkman2

Myth wrote:

Burying, burning or burrowing? Major difference between the three.

All of them I think.


Seriously there has been trouble bubbling there for years and this is as low as it gets. The gardai should be sent into that Moyross estate in big numbers. This cant continue.

The Muppet

1huge1 wrote:

as true as what you said is dublin is worse than limerick fact

I could argue that point but it would bring this off topic and I don't want that but I will say I'm not aware of anyone in Dublin petrol bombing a car with two innocent kids in it because their mother refused some animal a lift. What could possibly be any worse than that?

Now can we leave the Dublin is worse debate for another time as it has no relevance to recent events in Limerick

Ruu_Old

Moved from AH, theres an ongoing discussion regarding this issue. Mods, ye can probably merge this with the existing one. Thanks.

tallus

Apparently the scumbags rolled down the car window and threw petrol in to the back of the car where the two kids were sitting, then lit a firelighter and threw it in between the kids.
Heard that on Radio1 this morning.

1huge1

my appologies we should keep on topic

galwayrush

words cannot describe how i feel, what type of person would even think about, never mind carrying out something like this. 2 small kids, scarred for life because of the mindset of a few thugh who do not deserve to live.:mad:

oleras

Animals like this exist because there is no deterrent for them, the worst that can happen is they spend some time with there(sic) mates in jail for a bit, catching up on old times.
There has been enough pussy footing about social and economic reasons for excusing anti-social behaviour of late, not just this country of ours but everywhere. I am sure the vast majority of people are honest law abiding citizens, mainly because they have morals, they know the difference between right and wrong, they, we instill these morals in our children and hope they turn out to be our morally concious parents of the future and so on and so on.
These animals are like weeds, there is only one way of dealing with weeds, remove them completly.
Do we really "need" these people for anything, they dont contribute anything only pain and inflict hardship on people.
My rather simple answer.... exterminate them, they dont deserve anything better, why have a drain on society like this when nothing deters them ? maybe a death penalty might keep them awake at night and think about there actions, but i doubt it.
Does not look like the gardai will do anything about it either, whats left ? one is reminded of the anti drug dealer marches in dublin in the 80's, something similar ? who knows... is a vigilante society the answer ? i think so.
Im not going to debate with any leftie anti death sentance tree hugger, these are my opinions, like um or lump um !

shane86

1huge1 wrote:

as true as what you said is dublin is worse than limerick fact

In fairness Blanch is the same size as Limerick population wise. Every year we get a handful of shootings, one or two of which are fatal, and maybe one fatal stabbig, but tbh Limerick seems out of control. Especially since yis say its confined to one or two estates. Blanch, you have areas like Corduff, Ladyswell, Fortlawn, Whitestown and maybe one of the new estates experiencing this sh1t. In Limerick its all "ah well it only happens in Moyross and O`Malley"

Two areas only? Those two need to get their act together.

galwayrush

well put Oleras, they are scum, yet our penal system treats them with a lot more respect than it treats the victims.:mad: time to change that.

pokerwidow

Those poor children. As a mother I would never let a person into my car with my children in it unless I knew them very well. What kind of an animal would do that for any reason? Only pure evil people would even think of doing that to children.

The father said on a clip on Prime Time that the little boys lips, gums, face and other areas of his body are burned. The 6 yr old girl is awake though. Poor little things. Two politicians form the city were also on ( sorry not from there so don't know names). One was an indepent who believes that there should be 2 cop cars in Moyross at all times, the other a FF'er who suggested ASBOs and said that the matter was being over exaggerated :eek: .

Blazer

oleras wrote:

Animals like this exist because there is no deterrent for them, the worst that can happen is they spend some time with there(sic) mates in jail for a bit, catching up on old times.
There has been enough pussy footing about social and economic reasons for excusing anti-social behaviour of late, not just this country of ours but everywhere. I am sure the vast majority of people are honest law abiding citizens, mainly because they have morals, they know the difference between right and wrong, they, we instill these morals in our children and hope they turn out to be our morally concious parents of the future and so on and so on.
These animals are like weeds, there is only one way of dealing with weeds, remove them completly.
Do we really "need" these people for anything, they dont contribute anything only pain and inflict hardship on people.
My rather simple answer.... exterminate them, they dont deserve anything better, why have a drain on society like this when nothing deters them ? maybe a death penalty might keep them awake at night and think about there actions, but i doubt it.
Does not look like the gardai will do anything about it either, whats left ? one is reminded of the anti drug dealer marches in dublin in the 80's, something similar ? who knows... is a vigilante society the answer ? i think so.
Im not going to debate with any leftie anti death sentance tree hugger, these are my opinions, like um or lump um !

hear hear..society's today too much concerned with the rights of the criminals rather than the victims..there should be a zero tolerance for people like this, backed up by a huge force of garda to enforce law and order but what are the chances?..hell I'll quite happily pull the trigger just to get rid of scumbags like this people..

Karmafaerie

1huge1 wrote:

as true as what you said is dublin is worse than limerick

shane86 wrote:

In fairness Blanch is the same size as Limerick population wise. Every year we get a handful of shootings, one or two of which are fatal, and maybe one fatal stabbig, but tbh Limerick seems out of control. Especially since yis say its confined to one or two estates. Blanch, you have areas like Corduff, Ladyswell, Fortlawn, Whitestown and maybe one of the new estates experiencing this sh1t. In Limerick its all "ah well it only happens in Moyross and O`Malley"

Two areas only? Those two need to get their act together.

There have been I think three murders in Limerick in the last three years!

There is 7 1/2 times less crime per capita in Limerick than in Dublin.
There were 27 times as many murders in Dublin as in Limerick last year!

Iguana posted this a few months back.

iguana wrote:

Last years figures are here.
http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statistics/report2005.html
These figures are stunning, I knew Limerick's image was badly distorted compared to national crime figures, but I couldn't have imagined by how much. And I'd never in a million years have guessed that THE most crime ridden area of the country, per head of population, was Dublin South Central. Do you know how much property costs there?
I thought I'd stick in a few of the main points for those who wouldn't be bothered to download or read through it.

Headline Offences 2005 (these are the biggies, like murder, rape, armed robbery, assault and burglary) per 1000 of population.

Dublin Total; 44,991. Cork Total; 9162. Limerick; 5,717.

Dublin has more than seven and a half times the crime of Limerick per capita. The worst area is Dublin South Central with 9,643. 44% of these crimes happen in Dublin, the southern region which includes Limerick and Cork, as well as Kerry accounts for 16%.

Still not convinced? Lets break it down.

Murder Dublin Total; 27. Cork Total; 3. Limerick; 1.

Per 100,000 people;Dublin Total; 2.35. Cork Total; 0.66. Limerick; 0.56.

Of these figures 3 murder victims were women, all were killed in Dublin. Dublin had more than 4 times the murder rate of Limerick last year. The highest murder rate in the country is in Dublin South Central, with 6.81 per 100k. This accounted for 7 murders, including 2 women, the most murders (10) actually took place in Dublin Western.

Rape and Sexual Assault, per 1k population.

Dublin Total; R; 0.12 / SA; 0.30. Cork Total; R; 0.09 / SA; 0.19. Limerick; R; 0.10 / SA; 0.21.

The worst area in the country for rape was Donegal, per capita and in amount, with .28 and 38 rapes. It was the same for sexual assault with 0.72 per capita and 99 actual. It needs to be said that these are the reported figures. It is estimated that less than one third of rapes are reported to the gardaí.

Robbery & Aggravated Burglary, with Firearms

Dublin Total; 228. Cork Total; 10. Limerick; 19.

Per 1k populationDublin Total; 0.2. Cork Total; 0.02. Limerick; 0.11.

The worst area for these crimes is Dublin North Central with .49 per 1000 people. The highest amount however is Dublin Western with 52 actual. Dublin accounts for 65%, the Southern Region for 8%

Right I could go on, but I'm suffering from insomnia and I'm very tired. The reason I didn't include Galway is because Galway is split into Galway West and Roscommon/Galway East, so it just wasn't possible. It is not a slight against the city and county.

These are the garda figures, not something that was made up. As 1huge1 said, this is fact, and can't honestly be disputed!

Now can we please get back on subject, this isn't a Dublin/Limerick slanging match as The Muppet already said.

P.S: While the official population of Blanchardstown is slightly greater than that of Limerick, the population of Limerick is greatly misleading cause of it's antiquicated city boundary. The actual population of the greater Limerick area would be roughly twice that of Blanchardstown!;)

Karmafaerie

pokerwidow wrote:

Those poor children. As a mother I would never let a person into my car with my children in it unless I knew them very well. What kind of an animal would do that for any reason? Only pure evil people would even think of doing that to children.

The father said on a clip on Prime Time that the little boys lips, gums, face and other areas of his body are burned. The 6 yr old girl is awake though. Poor little things. Two politicians form the city were also on ( sorry not from there so don't know names). One was an indepent who believes that there should be 2 cop cars in Moyross at all times, the other a FF'er who suggested ASBOs and said that the matter was being over exaggerated :eek: .

He wasn't suggestion that the incident itself was beeing exagerated, but that the reporting of the day.
There were reports in the media of over 2000 petrol bombs being thrown, and running battles all day with the gardaí!
That's what's been exagerated!
The level of tradgedy with the children is not being desputed by anyone!

The Muppet

Karmafaerie wrote:

There have been I think three murders in Limerick in the last three years!

There is 7 1/2 times less crime per capita in Limerick than in Dublin.
There were 27 times as many murders in Dublin as in Limerick last year!

Iguana posted this a few months back.

Crime is a catch all term (breaking a red ligh is a crime), The popluation of Dublin is more than 27 times that of Limerick so Dublin is bound to have more "Crime"" . We are talking about serious crime here and for serious crime I would not be surprised if Limerick was actualy worse than Dublin Per Capita. I agree lets keep it on topic rather than trying to use statistics to deflect from the reality of the sitiuation.

Henry Ford III

2 youths arrested this morning.

I need to be careful here, but it's safe to say there is more to this story than meets the eye.

Having said that what happened to those innocent kids in nauseating.

motormouthmable

Henry Ford III wrote:

I need to be careful here, but it's safe to say there is more to this story than meets the eye.

aaah... now the rumour starts... what is it? the mother was unsing the kids for drug trafficking and before the gender change (s)he was a well known moyross gang leader.

ricey

Whatever about the mother that means NOTHING.

This just shows how bold the younger people are gone in places like
Moyross and all parts of Limerick and i mean EVERY PART.

Iv be around and i know Moyross very well and hung around there for
years and to be honest to new breed of youngfellas over there are
just total messers and its only getting worse.

Henry Ford III

motormouthmable wrote:

aaah... now the rumour starts... what is it? the mother was unsing the kids for drug trafficking and before the gender change (s)he was a well known moyross gang leader.

The father was quoted as saying he knew his kids were a target 4 months ago.

That doesn't happen for no reason you'd have to assume.

Anything beyond that may be a legal matter, and is dodgy ground tbh. It will all come out in the next few weeks.

motormouthmable

before saying somthing i need to point out this: it's a terrible, terrible tragedy for the kids and the parents! i'm speechless! must be terrible suffer to the whole family.

to be honest, i have seen the interview with the dad.. with all respect, don't get me wrong - but he doesn't look and talk like living in SCR...

Edit: just checked google for the name of the father + Limerick. click on the 3rd link. but might just be coincidence...

@mod: this is an official press release/media information given by a public institution/authority - no need to delete, lock or ban, ok?

iguana

The Muppet wrote:

We are talking about serious crime here and for serious crime I would not be surprised if Limerick was actualy worse than Dublin Per Capita.

Dude, read it again, those are the per capita figures of Headline Offences such as murder, rape, armed robbery, assault and burglary per 1000 of population. Dublin has 7 and a half times more headline offences, not traffic violations, PER CAPITA than Limerick.
.

Crea

Karmafaerie and Iguana, do you want to start up a new thread discussing the Limerick vs Dublin crime rate as this topic is about what happened in Moyross?

The young fellas who did this should be made to sit in the hospital room with the parents and see the pain and suffering the children have to go through. They should also be made to help nurses during dressing changes for a week in a burn unit. At least then they'll have to face up to their repercussions of their actions. Much tougher than getting a "stern telling off" by some judge. This should not be instead of going to trial and getting a sentence.

As regards the possibility of the children being targets because of the actions of the parents this is way out of line. Children are innocent regardless of the parents actions - end of.

Tony S

Nothing shocks me from my home city anymore. I left in the 90's out of fear for my life and that of my kids, even though I was not connected to any gang whatsoever, I was afraid we would become victims because we spoke out against the scumbags.

The council are not to blame. They did not give birth to these animals. Limerick people did.

<snippity snip>

Mod Edit: Remainder of post deleted (summary - beat the sh1t of them and drive them out). Jesus Christ, baiting post of the year right here, folks. :rolleyes:

Meeting violence with violence is not the solution, Tony S.

Any more crap like this and you're banned.

simon_2fm

I know myself that not everyone in that area are scumbags but most of them are. Something needs to be done. The place needs to be demolished.

I remember back in Coventry in the 90's, that place had a serious crime problem. The Coventry police shut down bars and clubs, enforced curfews and knocked down houses in troubled areas. I last visited Coventry in 2003 and the place has completely changed for the better.

Similar approach needed here

cornbb

Pfft, I smell bait. That doesn't deserve a reply :rolleyes:

sioda

Curfews we are not at war. Okay I agree that things need to be done and yes knockin the areas would seem to solve it but where to you re house the people what about the people who are not involved your ordinary decent person.

So we knock these area what do we do with the scum from these areas.

Lets even look at another type of resettlement the attempts to intergrate the travellers with the sett;ed community it NEVER worked people ended up leaving the areas or not purchasing the houses if they heard that the travellers were living there and the exact thing would happen if they tried to rehouse the scum element from Moyross.

I mean how would anyone like if these people were moved in next to them.

I really feel for all the people who live work hard but due to circumstances have to live in areas with this element as they often feel ashamed to say they are from the area as it has all been tarred with the same brush

motormouthmable

please! they are not animals! animals don't do such things to other animals as those low level life forms do

Henry Ford III

simon_2fm wrote:

I know myself that not everyone in that area are scumbags but most of them are.

Most of the people up there are fine. A small minority are seriously out of order.

I'm am losing confidence in the government and justice system's ability to deal with these people.

I'm not sure what the answer is.

motormouthmable

there are different parts of moyross. i know a guy who is living near the supermarket there (is it a supervalue?) and he is quite decent. the worst part is around the railway tracks he says

Tony S

We live in a democracy, moderator. I am entitled to my opinon and the right to free speech. You have chosen to erase my submission. Fine. You say violence does not work. What would you suggest does, with these guys?? What ese do we try?? The law does not work, the Guards do not work. Limerick courthouse has a swivel door for a front door.Limerick moans about its problems, however does nothing to help itself. It runs scared of the packs that roam its streets. If the people of Limerick are not prepared to stand up for their own estates and city, who do they expect to fight their battles for them. Why dont you grow up, let go of the curtains and get out there and reclaim your streets. Sometimes you have to fight for your rights.

On a final note, dont be so quick to edit, run a decent site where people can express their opinions freely, and not some pussy version of a chat room.

jonski

If your first post was Bait , does that make this one ...rebait ?

Tony S

IF you did you would see that there are 7 more entries that make the suggestion of baiting them as you put it, and exterminating them. Dont single out my post for the purpose of you getting on your soap box and lecturing the rest of us on what is and isn't acceptable.If you are going to delete entries based on content, at least read all entries

BobTheBeat

It wasnt a minority of kids that attacked the guards up there the other night. The reality is,they are bored out of their fcuking minds and have nothing better to do than cause hassle - You dont have to travel too far from moyross to see that in effect.Caherdavin,mayorstone,woodview, the kids are just wandering around the place,lookin for some excitement, a chase whatever.

Sure its a minority that is always responsible for the incitement,but its the group that acted as a whole.

Mr E

I'm all for free discussion, Tony (other moderators would have simply banned you from the Limerick forum for a post like that). Saying that the source of violence is settled people hooking up with travellers, or cousins keeping it in the family is childish in the extreme.

iguana

Tony S wrote:

We live in a democracy, moderator. I am entitled to my opinon and the right to free speech.

(A) This is an internet forum, not a democracy, you obey the rules or your posts get deleted, and eventually you get banned if you keep flouting them.

(B) Fyi, there is NO entitlement to free speech in Ireland. Go check our constitution, you can pick it up for about €3 in any book shop. Under article 40.6.1 any matter considered to be "blasphmous, seditious or immoral" is banned as is anything which may "undermine public order, morality or the authority of the state."

So while I haven't read your deleted post I believe that Billy was acting not only in the authority he holds as moderator of this forum but under possible legal obligation as "kill 'em all" comments could certainly be considered to undermine public order.

Billy - I realise the hypocrisy of me banging on about rules while the two posts I've added to this discussion have been off topic. Sorry.

Mr E

Um, Dave, actually.
Billy is the other mod.