North/South divide

kazbegi · 09-09-2006 10:34pm #1

Comming to Trinity in a few weeks, going to be staying in Hall. I'm from the North and have never really spent much time in 'real' ireland.. am just wondering how different the two are, and what the average southerner thinks wrt northerners.. are we just as Irish as anyone else, or as foreign as the Brits, or somewhere in between..? Maybe someone who has experience of living both sides of the border could help with the first question, but anyone's views on the second would be useful.

I realise this isn't strictly about TCD but it's something I've been wondering about.. I don't mean to start a political debate, am more just interested in practicalities and people's attitudes.

Cheers

Endymion · 09-09-2006 10:47pm

If you come to trinity with prejudices, then your prejudices will be realised. Thats basically all I can say.

If you think everyone down here will look at you like you're not irish, then thats whats you'll find. If you come with an open mind, most people won't give a damn where you're from.

kazbegi · 09-09-2006 11:20pm

I understand what you're saying about prejudices, thanks.

The reason I asked the question though is that even though I try to be as open minded about everything as I can, from my point of view (which I suppose is a form of prejudice, but like anyone I can only see the world in terms of my own subjective thoughts & experience) I have grown up in essentially a different country and do feel like a bit of a foreigner in Dublin.. just want to get other people's views/experiences. (cos that's where objectivity comes from, right?)

Thanks

Endymion · 09-09-2006 11:25pm

kazbegi wrote:

I understand what you're saying about prejudices, thanks.

The reason I asked the question though is that even though I try to be as open minded about everything as I can, from my point of view (which I suppose is a form of prejudice, but like anyone I can only see the world in terms of my own subjective thoughts & experience) I have grown up in essentially a different country and do feel like a bit of a foreigner in Dublin.. just want to get other people's views/experiences. (cos that's where objectivity comes from, right?)

Thanks

Well Dublin can be a very intimidating place at times, even to the locals. As for trinity, you'll get a strong mix of dublin/Country/North/English and international students.

It's like, I grew up with this North Vs South dublin, UpperClass Vs Working Class thing, and it took a while in college to figure out it was all just really bull. When you start you'll meet allot of new people most wil ljust take you at face value, and not try to attach labels based on where you're from or your background.

Crash · 09-09-2006 11:30pm

Person1:Hi, my names South Suburban private school educated middle class, and you?

Person2:well, i'm NI bred nationalist working class here on scholarship. how bout your friend there?

Person3:oh well i'm terenure born upper class educated boy who puts on a dublin accent to seem hard.

Person1:ah, nice to meet you!

my attempted point (albeit late in the evening) is that for the most part, nobody cares. most of the time your background only comes up with good friends, or as humorous drunken anecdotes

kazbegi · 09-09-2006 11:55pm

nobody cares

Cheers, you make your point well.. good advice, will try to take it on board.

I probably should have been clearer in the OP cos the bit about attitudes was more an after thought.. what I really meant to ask about was the practical differences that I might not think of which other people may have experienced.. the only examples I can think of are like, do you always need to bring ID when you're going out? (I've never been IDed) can you get UK newspapers easily, or telly? is there stuff that is significantly cheaper/more expensive to watch out for, like beer?

Apologies if this seems a bit daft now, I guess I'll find most of it out when I get down!

kazbegi · 09-09-2006 11:57pm

PS No sarcasm intended in quoting 'nobody cares' and then saying you'd made a good point.. just saw it could be read that way!

Endymion · 09-09-2006 11:59pm

outside dublin there seems to be a big thing about runners going into clubs. I've never had a problem with it in dublin. As for ID, youd' want one, they tend to be more likely to ID yea if your obviously a college student.

09-09-2006 11:59pm

I don't think it's really an issue at all. I live in the North, although I wasn't born here and don't look Irish at all so I'm not sure WHAT people think I am, but there's loads of Northern people at Trinity and like others have said, they are seen how they want to be seen. If you consider yourself Irish, there is no reason why anyone would see you otherwise IMO. It's just another part of Ireland outside Dublin so you won't be treated as a real local obviously, but neither are people from Cork, Limerick, Donegal etc. I've noticed in halls that people form the North have a tendency to stick together but that's mainly because they choose to and have come down with friends from school. There's a really wide mix of people in halls and I don't think anybody will care if you're from NI or 'real' Ireland.

BTW on the practical side, EVERYTHING is more expensive in Dublin. Buy as much food, shampoo etc as you can and bring it down with you. Get a Garda ID card because they are really strict in Dublin, or you could use a driving licence. You don't want to be carrying your passport around. You can get UK newspapers everywhere and the TV channels on NTL cable which is free in the modern apartments at Trinity Hall.

Sangre · 10-09-2006 12:12am

I have a friend from up north, no one pays a blind bit of notice!

Although...she is called Nordy by everyone. Hmm, bad example.

kazbegi · 10-09-2006 12:33am

Kingsley Enough Spine wrote:

they are seen how they want to be seen. If you consider yourself Irish, there is no reason why anyone would see you otherwise IMO. It's just another part of Ireland outside Dublin

Thats the kind of thing I was hoping to hear.. where I'm comming from is that from what I know of uni in belfast from friends, while most people don't have any inate prejudice against southerners they are thought of as being from a different country and people see them as being.. different. Glad to know it's not really the same in reverse.. then maybe we can be just a *wee tiny little* bit more introverted / homogenous / tribal / caveman up here from time to time.. maybe.. lol

Thanks for the practical info too.

One other thing I wanted to ask about - Kingsley Enough Spine I presume you get a student loan from the north.. do you use a northern or southern bank account when you're in dublin? I'm not sure what to do cos if I use my northern one I'll have to pay fees everytime I take out cash or use my visa, but I think the loan has to be paid into a UK account so I don't know how you'd transfer the money to a southern one.. any advice? Ta

10-09-2006 12:37am

The bank account thing is awkward. I have a Bank of Ireland sterling account that my loan is paid into, and I can take out the money from ATMs without paying fees in the South. Obviously your money comes out in Euros, but on your receipt it's all in sterling which I find annoying but maybe it's just me. You could transfer all the money to a southern account but you'd probably have to pay for that and it's a bit awkward as well.

kazbegi · 10-09-2006 12:42am

Guess there isn't any easy way round it then.. will just have to get used to using cash again! (I normally just use my debit card for virtually everything cos if I take cash I find I have to round any price up to the nearest £10 as the change will just evaporate on junk!) My loan will go into my First Trust account.. if BOI dont charge for ATM they probably don't either.. will check it out.

kazbegi · 10-09-2006 12:44am

Oh and phones.. I guess you just use two sims.. is there much difference between the networks in the south?

10-09-2006 12:55am

I don't even bother with 2 SIMs, I'm hardly ever home really. A lot of people use 2 but make sure your phone is unlocked before you buy an Irish SIM card. The cheapest is Meteor, it's significantly cheaper than the other networks (O2 and Vodafone) There used to be problems with coverage and service but I think it's greatly improved now.

kazbegi · 10-09-2006 1:07am

Yeah phone is unlocked.. I was using a swiss sim quite often this year. Just saw info burried deep in the o2 (uk) website about a pay&go ireland bolt-on, where you pay £2 a month and for that you don't pay anything to receive calls when roaming in the south and can make calls/send texts to uk numbers for your normal (home) rates.. it looks too good to be true..!
http://www.o2.co.uk/productsservices/boltons/ireland

Ta for all the help, I'm off to bed. Any other advice from northerners in the south gratefully received.. especailly about loans & banks!

Papillon87 · 10-09-2006 9:57am

kazbegi wrote:

Comming to Trinity in a few weeks, going to be staying in Hall. I'm from the North and have never really spent much time in 'real' ireland.. am just wondering how different the two are, and what the average southerner thinks wrt northerners.. are we just as Irish as anyone else, or as foreign as the Brits, or somewhere in between..? Maybe someone who has experience of living both sides of the border could help with the first question, but anyone's views on the second would be useful.

I realise this isn't strictly about TCD but it's something I've been wondering about.. I don't mean to start a political debate, am more just interested in practicalities and people's attitudes.

Cheers

In my experience, people from N.I. are treated the exact same as eveyone else. I totally consider them Irish! My opinion of people from the North: they are very sound people with a hot accent!

Endymion · 10-09-2006 10:00am

Some people from the north would take offense to being considered Irish.

Papillon87 · 10-09-2006 10:06am

Carnivore wrote:

Some people from the north would take offense to being considered Irish.

I don't mean to offend anyone. However, I am entitled to my own opinion and that is it. I have a lot of relations from N.I., half Northern Irish myself, and I know they certainly wouldn't be offended.

Endymion · 10-09-2006 10:17am

Papillon87 wrote:

I don't mean to offend anyone. However, I am entitled to my own opinion and that is it. I have a lot of relations from N.I., half Northern Irish myself, and I know they certainly wouldn't be offended.

Your entitled to your opinion and all, but that doesn't change the fact that allot of people in the north consider themselves British as apposed to Irish (I'm not going to get into the rights and wrongs of that), and it's best not to make persumptions about how someone identifies themselves. I don't consider northern Ireland people foreign, but as to whether or not they are Irish, thats for them to decide.

kazbegi · 10-09-2006 11:14am

Like I originally said I don't want to start a political debate about the rights and wrongs of partition etc., but the fact is you're right that many people up here don't consider themselves Irish and would take offense. In Northern Ireland people virtually chose which country they live in - to read the Irish papers, listen to 2FM in their cars, follow Irish politics and news and genuinely be Irish.. whereas some live in the UK just as much as any Scot or English person does, with all the same TV, radio, shops etc. I understand it's a huge generalisation to put people into one of two categories, which is not what I intend, I'm just trying to make my point that you can decide to be Irish or British and it's more than just a label.

I'm just generally mixed up when it comes to nationality.. the most important thing is that I think it doesn't matter where you were born or grew up, everyone is equal and should be treated as such. I have both passports, but am in the strange position that having gone to a very traditional british-public-school-esque grammar school, with union jacks from the siege of lucknow hanging in the assembly hall and God Save the Queen and all that carry on, I probably do consider myself more British when I'm in Northern Ireland.. like I don't have a clue about Irish politics* beyond knowing Bertie Ahern is the Taishoch (can't even spell that!) and Mary Robinson is the President, Mary Macaleese isn't and Chales Haughey is dead. However, when ever I'm abroad and anyone asks me where I'm from I automatically say I'm Irish and don't feel any hypocrisy..! (And I always travel on my Irish passport too..)

I hope this hasn't all come accross as very prejudiced, I guess I'm just definitivley Northern Irish..!

*I understant that politics is completley not important to anything ever! The sad fact is that UK politics really interests me..

Papillon87 · 10-09-2006 11:20am

I'm actually a very together person who is aware of the problems in the North and the sociological divide there.
I would never be so arrogant as to presume that Northern Irish people consider their allegiance is to Ireland, or Britain for that matter. But if this thread has taught me something it's that I'm never voicing my opinion again.

Endymion · 10-09-2006 11:23am

Not prejudist at all, it's just how you definite yourself. You'll meet allot of people in university, especially trinity, who are very grey about how the definite themselves. Who you are now, won't be who you are after four years here, I know that was very true of me. You'll be exposed to new idea's, lifestyles and cultures, and suddenly previously held labels will kinda just vanish. I really wouldn't worry to much about being from the north, everyone starts of with a clean slat in University, and for many, it there frist chance to actually be themselves.

People will care more about if you're a sound person, then where you're from.

Papillon, no need for hysterics.

kazbegi · 10-09-2006 11:35am

Papillion, chill... you made a good point because it is also my experience that the majority of Northerners wouldn't take offense at being called Irish.. (even if some don't really consider themselves such, they accept the fact that they are from a part of ireland -- just like many people who want to see a united ireland accept the fact that, for now, on a day to day basis they live in a part of Britain.. its not political, its just practical.) ..the thing is that a minority would

littlehedgehog · 10-09-2006 12:06pm

Back to the point at hand *nervous*

NI people in Halls.. I'd actually have to think really hard about who they are, because once I got used to the incredibly hot accent, it didn't exactly.. hm.. occur.. to me. And I know most people are like that. Same in the actual college.
Just don't be a prat

*giddy* Sorry, just can't wait to get back to college and all my friends being around again! *giddy*

Nietzschean · 10-09-2006 1:35pm

ah i went through college with a bunch of nordies who lived both in halls and on campus, neither ever had a problem.... (apart from a bit of slag'n but eh everyone gets that...)

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI · 10-09-2006 3:52pm

kazbegi wrote:

like I don't have a clue about Irish politics* beyond knowing Bertie Ahern is the Taishoch (can't even spell that!) and Mary Robinson is the President, Mary Macaleese isn't and Chales Haughey is dead.

*I understant that politics is completley not important to anything ever! The sad fact is that UK politics really interests me..

Oh totally...sure I feel the exact same way and I've lived in Dublin my entire life...I find the vast majority of Irish political discussions tiresome and petty, while what goes on in the UK generally has greater global repurcussions, it just interests me more. That said more is relative, and I'm not really a politics head in any way shape or form.

Crash · 10-09-2006 10:22pm

my one presiding idea of northern Irish people in college:

no preconceptions, except girls who have a NI accent instantly gain a point or two - nyom

Bartronilic · 10-09-2006 11:03pm

Oh oh oh say "now" say "NOW" i love northern irish people saying "now" its like "neeeow" "neeeeeow".

Theres more to Ireland than Dublin?!?!?! Just kidding

Northern Irish people are from like indonesia or some place aren't they?

Just kidding! Nobody except those sad people who care about what happened 10,000 years ago between some british and irish people who we never even met will care where you're from here in dublin! the ones who do will ask you are you "a proddy" or a "nationalist" and all that crap! But just tell them celtic called and they want their jerseys back and they'll shut up.

Hope you enjoy trinity!

kazbegi · 11-09-2006 12:00am

Ha ha thanks for that.. made me laugh! (My brother was in the room and now thinks I'm a lunatic)

Sorry, but it must be said:
For all those who have commented on the northern accent.. it is important to note that because regional variation is so extreme, while Northern Ireland has some of the sexiest accents in the world it is also home to some that have an effect akin to scraping nails on a blackboard with a high frequency feedback loop, that are illegal for use in war under the geneva conventions.*

*the latter clause may not actually be true.. I may have got a bit carried away

Crash · 11-09-2006 12:06am

true actually - a gorgeous girl with an Armagh accent really REALLY doesnt do it for me :P

kazbegi · 11-09-2006 12:10am

damn.. and I was being so careful not to name specific places!

is it the same in the south as up here.. that you can basically tell what town someone is from just by their accent?

Crash · 11-09-2006 12:13am

Yeah pretty much - hell i'm even used to (to an extent) northern county accents. nowhere near as well though.

kazbegi · 11-09-2006 12:20am

My problem is that I don't really have a consistent accent.. it changes depending on who I'm talking to and makes people think I'm mimicing them when I'm trying really hard not too.. I'll probably have a dublin accent (or a retarded impression of one) within a few days of getting down there whether I like it or not!

Crash · 11-09-2006 12:27am

I have the same problem, down to inflections. sometimes Australians think i'm taking the piss

Agent Smith · 11-09-2006 12:27am

your not marks sister by any chance?

kazbegi · 11-09-2006 12:29am

who, me? no. who's mark?

Nietzschean · 11-09-2006 12:29am

&#231 wrote: »

Yeah pretty much

well not for all of us, no one has ever guessed where i'm from, actually its rare they ever notice i'm not from <insert wherever i am> , most dub's thought i was from dublin when i started in tcd.....

neutral accent ftw

Agent Smith · 11-09-2006 12:31am

Long story, marks a friend of myself and Crash_000

Crash · 11-09-2006 12:33am

ah man when you were talking to denise once your accent suddenly creeped back in big time

Tricity Bendix · 11-09-2006 3:59pm

So long as you don't mention politics, there shouldn't be a problem. Some people can have strong opinions which probably don't need airing. If you don't have a problem with some people viewing you as British (not Irish) or as Northern Irish (sorta Irish but kinda different) then there won't be a problem. The important thing is how you feel yourself.

Oh, and MacAleese is the president, not Robinson, and its spelt Taoiseach.

And I can't stand the Northern accent/s.

North/South divide

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