mary harney to resign as PD party leader?

partholon

just heard on newstalk news at 4 , rumours are abounding mary will announce her retirement as party leader in a press confrence at 4.30. past her best, or getting out before the kicking at the next election (shes standing in my area now, and its not exactly PD central!)be interesting to see what you guys think is going on

road_high

partholon wrote:

just heard on newstalk news at 4 , rumours are abounding mary will announce her retirement as party leader in a press confrence in the next few hours. past her best, or getting out before the kicking at the next election (shes standing in my area now, and its not exactly PD central!)be interesting to see what you guys think is going on

If I were on a sinking ship I'd want to get off too..Though they say a captain shouls always go down with his ship, don't they??:D

Dave!

McDowell to succeed?

partholon

god could you imagine it? im not gonna vote PD anyway but any pretension they have about being a caring sharing party will go right out the window with reich fuherer macdowell in charge. how the hell can colm o gorman stand in this party now on the grounds it has a social conscience?

just thought, it could be harneys finally convinced liz to step up! be interesting to see what Mmd will do then

Dr. Nick

It's official -newsflash on RTE R1

partholon

yup the live feed is happening now, 16.55 on newstalk, mary harneys stepping down as party leader but is still staying as minster of health till her sucessor is appointed then its up to them as to weather she retains the portfollio. new leader should be in within 3 weeks . while she insists she wont partake in the process she does seem to be stressing that maybe one of the newbies may be chosen (colm o gorman, prehaps? she was talking about reinvigorating the party and defining what its about and he was one of the men she mentioned by name!)

parlimentary party annouce they were totally surprised by this announcement

bringitdown

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0907/harneym.html

Bit out of the blue init?

Scruff

DaveMcG wrote:

McDowell to succeed?

At least he'll never be taoiseach. Thank god for small mercies.

Darragh29

I think the way the press started quizzing her when Ireland on Sunday suggested that she had intervened to get more favourable treatment for her mother in Tallaght Hospital for a hip replacement was when she decided she had had enough. I thought when I saw her reaction on TV to the way she was being treated, when she saw that the level of hostility towards herself was more than she could endure, she decided to call it a day. I am no fan of the PD's or Mary Harney for that matter but I'd hate to be a politician in government in this country today, not because of anything the government is doing wrong, but because people in Ireland today are so combative and literally all fired up for conflict. They see everything wrong as being the fault of the government, not always the case I think... Most of the time its ourselves that cause the problems, be it anti-social behaviour, problems with the health service, crime, etc. Sorry in advance if this is drifting a bit off topic, but I'm not surprised Mamma Harney has had enough...

They could appoint Liz O'Donnell and start winning back the electorate, or Michael McDowell and implode. Even if his stance on the shinners was exemplary, he was a character few warmed to.

Darragh29

Darragh29 wrote:

I'd hate to be a politician in government in this country today, not because of anything the government is doing wrong, but because people in Ireland today are so combative and literally all fired up for conflict. They see everything wrong as being the fault of the government, not always the case I think... Most of the time its ourselves that cause the problems, be it anti-social behaviour, problems with the health service, crime, etc.

What a thought provoking post. Good point well made.

Sponge Bob

Deleted User wrote:

They could appoint Liz O'Donnell and start winning back the electorate, or Michael McDowell and implode.

Or "Country" Tom Parlon to give us all a bit of a laugh , otherwise you are right Conor. I doubt Liz will put herself forward but you never know.

During the current spate of 'party think ins' the PDs were absent from the busines of promoting any new thoughts which says a lot. Maybe Mary thought she was effectively trying to lead a vacumn from the front and that the physics were beyond her.

partholon

sweet jesus ,i tell you one thing. it'll make the election next year very interesting. i was looking forward to it anyway but this just throws the cat among the pidgeons fun times ahead

mickd

Darragh29 wrote:

I think the way the press started quizzing her when Ireland on Sunday suggested that she had intervened to get more favourable treatment for her mother in Tallaght Hospital for a hip replacement was when she decided she had had enough. Sorry in advance if this is drifting a bit off topic, but I'm not surprised Mamma Harney has had enough...

Well said , anybody would pack it in after that

Cronus333

This is the straw that broke the camel's back.

We are done for.

Darragh29

partholon wrote:

sweet jesus ,i tell you one thing. it'll make the election next year very interesting. i was looking forward to it anyway but this just throws the cat among the pidgeons fun times ahead

But in a way do you not think it makes it less interesting also??? With Mc Dowell as leader, the party are literally on a crash course with the electorate. Liz O' Donnell as leader, I could only see this happening if Mc Dowell stepped aside and was not interested in the party leadership, which is most unlikely to happen, so I'd say Mc Dowell will take the reins for better or for worse...

Funny that this Mama Harney resignes right in the middle of the government discussing one particularly difficult matter, which is the expansion of the Dublin Bus fleet -v- opening up private routes. It's well known that Harney favoured sourcing extra capacity by allowing more private operators to run bus routes in the city while the hapless Martin Cullen and the FF cabinet members wanted to look after the unions and give more money to Dublin Bus to expand the fleet. Apparently this particular issue was deadlocked for recent months as Harney was using a veto at the cabinet table on this matter, so committed was she to free enterprise... Interesting...

democrates

Darragh29 wrote:

I think the way the press started quizzing her when Ireland on Sunday suggested that she had intervened to get more favourable treatment for her mother in Tallaght Hospital for a hip replacement was when she decided she had had enough. I thought when I saw her reaction on TV to the way she was being treated, when she saw that the level of hostility towards herself was more than she could endure, she decided to call it a day.

She was clearly on the verge of tears and I remember thinking if it was me that would be the last straw, not because I couldn't endure it, but why the hell should I.

It's one thing taking stinging criticism accross the dail or constant personal jibes in the media, she's always taken that in her stride as a professional politician, but when one of your family is in peril and the yapping pack of salivating hyenas go on the attack you can imagine the intense reaction you'd have.

My mother died in january after problems began the previous september, considering what the family went through I'm stunned as to how Mary Harney managed to retain her composure at that time, maybe it's a female thing not to go straight to anger, and practice in suppressing your emotions as politicians must, but I wonder if I'd have the wherewithal to avoid a court appearance for gbh.

I'm dead set against many of her policies, but she and her family didn't deserve to be kicked when they were down like that.

mickd

There could be a general election before xmas as there is no way FF backbenchers will stomach McDowell as Tanaiste if he gets the job. This will scupper Berties long slow game strategy

Darragh29

democrates wrote:

She was clearly on the verge of tears and I remember thinking if it was me that would be the last straw, not because I couldn't endure it, but why the hell should I.

It's one thing taking stinging criticism accross the dail or constant personal jibes in the media, she's always taken that in her stride as a professional politician, but when one of your family is in peril and the yapping pack of salivating hyenas go on the attack you can imagine the intense reaction you'd have.

My mother died in january after problems began the previous september, considering what the family went through I'm stunned as to how Mary Harney managed to retain her composure at that time, maybe it's a female thing not to go straight to anger, and practice in suppressing your emotions as politicians must, but I wonder if I'd have the wherewithal to avoid a court appearance for gbh.

I'm dead set against many of her policies, but she and her family didn't deserve to be kicked when they were down like that.

Couldn't agree with you more Democrates. If I was treated like this I'd have been reliving Eric Cantona's most famous moment and the person who made the comment to me would be praying that the A & E they were going to was not busy. I felt very sorry for her that she had to endure this disgrace, I don't support many if not any of her policies but nobody should have to suffer this treatment. Although it was the paper involved which was responsible for attacking her in this manner, really I think it reflects poorly on the rest of us, the fact that the paper thought we would run with it and gasp in horror at the gall of it all, when all we were seeing was our minister for health worrying about her ill mother in the same way as any of us would, it doesn't get much worse than this imo...

partholon

mickd wrote:

There could be a general election before xmas as there is no way FF backbenchers will stomach McDowell as Tanaiste if he gets the job. This will scupper Berties long slow game strategy

now thats something i didnt think of, like i said fun times to come. guess we'll know in three weeks. by the way i dont think she didnt consulte anyone, it'd be very irresponsible to leave a party leaderless this close to an election and while i dont like her policys she doesnt strike me as that type of person. i reckon there were backroom talks with either liz or tom to take over, strictly on the hush hush. one things for sure, macdowel didnt have a clue. just look at his face as he was leaving the confrence

Philistine

There could be a general election before xmas as there is no way FF backbenchers will stomach McDowell as Tanaiste if he gets the job. This will scupper Berties long slow game strategy

She did say that she would like to stay on as minister for health, for some strange reason, until next election. It is also posible for her to remain as tanaiste until then also, yet not be leader of the PD's. Posible but not probable I would think.

partholon

but i dont think theres ever been a time when the leader of the party wasnt in the cabinet and its entirely possible that could happen, so someone would have to leave. i wonder who ?

Time Magazine

Another coup for the Dáilternatives.

I hope McDowell gets it, it'd be the biggest electoral gain for Fine Gael in the last decade - but he won't. My money's on Liz.

partholon

hey yeah, anyone know what the odds are in paddy powers? they mustve put something up by now

its so funny to think how good they are at predicting these things. probably has something to do with people putting their money where their mouths are

Glenbhoy

democrates wrote:

but when one of your family is in peril and the yapping pack of salivating hyenas go on the attack you can imagine the intense reaction you'd have.

Agreed, there's no need for the media in this country to start intruding on politician's family dealings, i don't think there's an appetite for that sort of intrusion here yet. (incidentally apparently the Star had a front page story on Cormac McAnallen's (former Tyrone footballer who died 2 yrs ago) fiance finding new love - despicable i thought).
McDowell will take over, the party will be finished, in fairness, they aren't expected to get any more than what 4 seats max next time? With Big Mick in charge, that could well be optimistic.
I always thought her decision to take on health was going to be the defining move for the PD's, if it worked they might just have had a chance, if not, well, it didn't!! (I don't think anyone could do much with health without scrapping the lot and starting over).

democrates

Ibid wrote:

Another coup for the Dáilternatives.

I hope McDowell gets it, it'd be the biggest electoral gain for Fine Gael in the last decade - but he won't. My money's on Liz.

My money is on Liz as well and I'm willing to put my mouth where my money is.

I think MH want's out of health but obviously can't say so, if Liz takes her place as Tanaiste she'd might want to negotiate another ministry that's less of a poisoned chalice.

Villain

Well Ms Harney played a nice bit of PR announcing this the same day the report into the death of Pat Joe Walsh in Monaghan General Hospital was released showing that the mess that the health system is in is causing lives to be lost.

Anyway rant over, if McDowell gets this I reckon we could have an election by February as I don't think the FF bank benchers will take to his appointment as Tanaiste very well.

zepp

partholon wrote:

hey yeah, anyone know what the odds are in paddy powers? they mustve put something up by now

its so funny to think how good they are at predicting these things. probably has something to do with people putting their money where their mouths are

http://www.irishelection.com/09/mary-harney-resigns/
seemingly liz is paddy powers favourite

Sponge Bob

democrates wrote:

My money is on Liz as well and I'm willing to put my mouth where my money is.

LOL . do you fancy her that much ???

I do not think she will run although she is by far the best leader they could have in the next election if they want to be electable.

Time Magazine

Sponge Bob wrote:

LOL . do you fancy her that much ???

I do not think she will run although she is by far the best leader they could have in the next election if they want to be electable.

And that's exactly the reason why she'll run and she'll win. Think she wouldn't like to be the leader of her party? Show me a politician who doesn't use their party purely as a vessel (thus excluding a certain EU Internal Markets Commissioner) that doesn't want the leadership.

It's not secretive who's going to elect the next leader: the members of the party. I can't see them choosing Mickey.

billy the squid

I only wish the rest of the PDs would resign, they have ruined the country and made life miserable for the less-well off in this country.

I imagine if Tom Parlon was made leader of the PDs we would end up having Dail eireann moved to som hamlet in County Laois. Michael McDowell? what's the Irish for Gestapo.

NewDubliner

billy the squid wrote:

I only wish the rest of the PDs would resign, they have ruined the country and made life miserable for the less-well off in this country.

Maybe she's finally realised that the PDs have been living a lie for some years.

democrates

Sponge Bob wrote:

LOL . do you fancy her that much ???

I do not think she will run although she is by far the best leader they could have in the next election if they want to be electable.

What's not to like. If she ever becomes available stifflers mom is demoted to backup.

She's into human rights, overseas development and aid, so may not be pd enough for the college compared with Zarathustra McDowell. Whoever is party leader and tanaiste there'll be two ministries going, she is well qualified to take Justice with good legal and foreign affairs experience, and they could release the rottweiler upon health - bear with me - the vested interests holding up progress have to be blitzkrieged, who better?

A bit of exposure to the suffering v the comfortable in this country might temper his radical capitalist zeal over time, and if he wants re-election he can't totally F it up. Also FF would hardly risk starving it of funding in the budgets before the next election as voters won't all buy the "a&e = pd" excuse. Or would it be too risky for the ill?

Villain

irish1 wrote:

Well Ms Harney played a nice bit of PR announcing this the same day the report into the death of Pat Joe Walsh in Monaghan General Hospital was released showing that the mess that the health system is in is causing lives to be lost.

Does anyone else think the timing of her announcement was deliberatly meant to take away from the report?

shnaek

I think history will be kinder to Mary Harney than most people appear to be. In taking over the health ministry she took an impossible, thankless job voluntarily because she believed she could make a difference. She attempted, along with her party, to free Dublin airport from the hands of vested interests. She has been attempting the same thing with Dublin bus. (And also with health)
Now before people jump on here suggesting I am a PD supporter I am going to say this – I support no party, and would vote for a kitchen chair before I would vote for any of the party leaders currently on offer. I am utterly sick of Irish politics, but Irish people are as much to blame for this as politicians are.
But I have to defend elements of Mary Harney’s political career – such as her belief she could make a difference in health, and willingness to go up against vested interests in both health and in transport. Had she succeeded in either she would have made a huge difference to the way our country is run.
Alas moronic short termism, parish pump policies and cowardice is what gets the votes these days. Magicians tricks misdirecting the public who fall for such nonsense every time. Mary Harney has probably always been aware of this, but recent events have forced her hand. But I think she deserves to be remembered well, for standing up and taking the hard road, and for taking hard and often unpopular decisions because she believed it was for the good of the country.

civdef

I only wish the rest of the PDs would resign, they have ruined the country and made life miserable for the less-well off in this country.

Yeah, things have never been worse.

road_high

Tom Parlon for leader please- it would be such a laugh- it be so satisfying to watch the PD leader loose their seat at the next election too.

Mad Finn

Heres a 1970's soul classic for the day that's in it.

WexfordMusings

With Fianna Fáil - Failing & now the Progressive Democrats - Regressing, I think we will see a general election quite soon.

Of course if a general election was announced first thing on Monday morning, I think FF & PD would be in big trouble.

Although saying that, Mary's job is probably the hardest of the ministerial positions. Who would want it. Now dont get me wrong, I don't like Mary Harney but she did try very hard. I think the bulldog McDowell (whom I don't like either) might be able to get somewhere as he seems to be able to jump head-long into something, ignore the media, not worry about who he is pissing off and just do the job.

In a new Government of FG, Labour & Greens, who can take over as minister for Health. Is there anyone with the same thick skin as McDowell, I Don't think so. Saying that I still want the PD's & FF out...

:cool:

Raskolnikov

My first thought on hearing the news, was that the resignation was a political move by Harney in order to preserve the PD's in the coming general election. McDowell has largely been an unpopular figure in his role as Justice Minister, Harney on the other hand is increasingly being seen as a failure in her role of Health Minister. If that situation was remain come the next election, the PD's would almost certainly face electoral losses.

Solair

I have seen Mary Harney speaking off-camera and off mic and she's far warmer and friendlier in person than she comes across on TV/Radio. She's always been very well meaning and genuinely committed to improving things and without being a PD supporter either, I would have to say that she's one of the most solid and respectable people in Irish politics.

However, Mc Dowell is someone I simply have no time for at all. He just comes across as extremely arrogant and high handed and doesn't have the qualities that I would expect to see in a party leader. Personally, I would think that with him at the helm the PDs would be on a rapid road to the extreme fringes of Irish politics. Politics in Ireland's fairly centre, Mc Dowell sometimes seems to be more like a rightwing Tory than a PD.

Liz O'Donnell would be a far more pleasant choice of leader and I think would be able to keep the party in the main stream and continue on Harney's general liberal, pro-business yet fairly socially focused agenda.
I also think that Liz is probabally better able to present a warm face to the media and would generally make a good figure head for the party. Harney's always come across a little cold. Liz could perhaps do more of a "bertie".

red dave

irish1 wrote:

Does anyone else think the timing of her announcement was deliberatly meant to take away from the report?

Absolutely it was. I think it's disgusting that she has done this on the very day that the report came out. People should be talking about the report and not her resignation.

It's the oldest possible hook line and sinker political thing to do to divert attention away from bad pr.

Apologies if you might think i'm off topic however I am extremely annoyed with how she has gone about this and the timing :mad: :mad:

gandalf

First of all glad she has gone, hopefully she will be gone from Health soon as well because it is still a major disaster area and this government do not have the political will to sort it out.

I am hoping McDowell gets the leadership because I reckon that will finish the PD's altogether.

As for the timing of the resignation, yes I do believe it was used to divert attention from the publication of the damning report on that poor mans death in Monaghan.

Glenbhoy

red dave wrote:

Absolutely it was. I think it's disgusting that she has done this on the very day that the report came out. People should be talking about the report and not her resignation.

Amazingly it was also the same day The Greens had their think tank thingy. Not that anyone heard anything about it.

I can't see any thread on the Pat Joe Walsh report here.

Clearly the people alleging a diversion have allowed themselves to become diverted.

Villain

Well I'll start one if you like but can't see it getting much response, her timing was disgusting and imo it was very deliberate that was my point. Although I wouldn't expect anything else from the PD's the sooner they get out of government the better.

Mary Harney took on the health portfolio and like all the other FF ministers before her have failed to make any real improvments, the fact that Pat Joe Walsh died in those circumstances is proof of that.

_Kaiser_

Hang on a sec... you're all vilifying the media for quizzing her on using her influence to get her mother preferential treatment, but I say fair play to them for calling her on it.

Yes ok, noone wants to see their mother sick, but why should she be treated any different than the rest of the people who needed treatment??? It's precisely this "if you can short-circuit the system then fair play to you" mentality that leads to a lot of the problems in the health service and elsewhere in Irish life.

Politicians aren't kings or gods (no matter what some of them think), they're employed (and overpaid I might add!) to serve the public, not their own interests and unfortunately there's far to many of them whose sole aim is to get into government and stay there!

I noted that while Mary may be sterpping down as leader, she's determined to stay Tanaiste and in Health (for whatever reason - it's not like she's done any good there). IMO she's no different than the rest of them.

Diogenes

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Hang on a sec... you're all vilifying the media for quizzing her on using her influence to get her mother preferential treatment, but I say fair play to them for calling her on it.

Theres an unsubstaniated claim that both she and hospital deny that her mother was given preferential treatment.

Given the fuss about Lawlor and the "call girl" when he died, I'm less likely to completely believe a story written in one of the sunday tabloids.

irish1

irish1 wrote:

Mary Harney took on the health portfolio and like all the other FF ministers before her have failed to make any real improvments, the fact that Pat Joe Walsh died in those circumstances is proof of that.

No it's not, it's proof of another death being used a political football. Is it significant that if you Google the name Pat Joe Walsh the first entry is the Fine Gael political website. If I remember correctly, the last time people tried to hijack a patient's death to make points about politics it transpired that someone had made an incorrect decision to send a child home and it had nothing to do with the system. Of course this time around it may be different, I would have to see the report in full myself before commenting. Do you know where I can get a copy online? Obviously, I presume we none of us are merely relying on newspaper soundbites...

democrates

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Hang on a sec... you're all vilifying the media for quizzing her on using her influence to get her mother preferential treatment, but I say fair play to them for calling her on it.

Yes ok, noone wants to see their mother sick, but why should she be treated any different than the rest of the people who needed treatment??? It's precisely this "if you can short-circuit the system then fair play to you" mentality that leads to a lot of the problems in the health service and elsewhere in Irish life.

The thing is, because she's a politician she is treated differently, any normal person wouldn't have to endure that, you'd be sensitive about such family situations, but a politician is dragged over the coals regardless.

That goes with the job you may say, and I agree that any rule duality should be covered by the press, but basic humanity and common-sense timing is absolutely absent in the scoop frenzy and I think it's making politics a no-go area for many people who could otherwise be in there doing a good job on our behalf.

In all my years I've never bought a tabloid (red-top) newspaper, I read them periodically and the downward trend is getting worse. A bit of humour and satire would be quite welcome if only it were accompanied by any measure of intelligent insight. It takes two to tango, the private interests profiting from dumbing down the working class, and the consumers of that drivel handing over cash for it.

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Politicians aren't kings or gods (no matter what some of them think), they're employed (and overpaid I might add!) to serve the public, not their own interests and unfortunately there's far to many of them whose sole aim is to get into government and stay there!

I noted that while Mary may be sterpping down as leader, she's determined to stay Tanaiste and in Health (for whatever reason - it's not like she's done any good there). IMO she's no different than the rest of them.

Reading between the lines I think she wants out of health but can't say so without damaging the party, that it's because the pd's are due for a leadership change and new blood, and she'd love to stay in health is just damage-limitation spin imho.

I don't think they're all the same, while there's some commonality in what it takes to survive in politics, I certainly wouldn't view MH as identical to the brown envelope brigade, the difference is a major factor in how the PD's came into being and how we vote. That said I'm for direct democracy evolving over time from the grassroots up, so I'm not a staunch supporter of the flawed status quo.

Cork

Mary Harney & Micheal Martin have led Health Reform.

No more - have we Health Boards with their County Council membership.

We have now management structures in place that are accountable.

Reforming any system takes time.

Sure, there are areas like A + E that need improvement. But many areas of the system work well.


Mary Harney has been a far superior Minister for Health than either Brendan Howlin or Michael "the Hoodie" Noonan.