Willl Fianna Fáil - Fail?

WexfordMusings

Following on nicely from my post of "Democracy is Dead", (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054983933&referrerid=&highlight=) with the exchequer having so much money available will Fianna Fáil be able, now, with a windfall budget, buy the next election.

Check out http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/stor...4x&n=194390094 ... for what the opposition thinks.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

layke

FF can throw all the money they like at me I just want Rupert the bear out. I never want to see that bunch of jokers Fianna Fáil in power again.

I nearly cracked up laughing when I heard Bertie on the radio talking about "the sensible decisions" Fianna Fáil has made over the years. FF are denying they will dip into the funds to sponsor their campaign however i'll wait to see that.

Anyone but FF and SF.

To answer the topic, I sincerely hope so.

IronMan

A change is needed so badly. The alternative mightn't be up to much, but hey, they can't be worse than the current shower. Here is some of the nuggets promised in the last Fianna Fail manifesto, before the 2002 general election.

We will roll-out broadband to make it accessible to as many rural communities as possible.

We will maintain the network of Garda stations.

We will seek to develop the agriculture colleges as wider rural development resources.

Having already made significant progress, by end-2002 we will publish a plan to completely end all heroin use in Irish prisons within the term of the next government. This will include the availability of treatment and rehabilitation for all who need them and the introduction of compulsory drug testing for prisoners where necessary. Where a person has been found to be involved in the supply of drugs to a prisoner we will introduce a new stiffer penalty.

ensure the effective monitoring of the working conditions of all persons with work visas.

review processing arrangements for work visas, including greater integration of consular and commercial reviews to ensure both speedy processing and reasonable safeguards

A West Coast Digital Corridor will be developed to provide high-quality broadband telecommunications facilities for both Gaeltacht and non-Gaeltacht communities from Donegal to Cork. Údarás na Gaeltachta will be charged with facilitating the provision of similar facilities in any Gaeltacht areas not covered by the Corridor, where demand exists, including offshore islands.

We will start work on the construction at Abbotstown of a world-class national stadium that meets the needs of the three main sporting organizations. We also remain committed to the development of a range of other top class facilities at Abbotstown.

Ensure each Garda District and Sub-District be required to produce a Drug Policing Plan to include multi-agency participation in targeting drug dealers.

To ensure a continued record level of housing supply, a key factor in stabilising house prices, we will extend the Serviced Land Initiative, make more efficient use of housing land.

We will continue to reduce the pupil:teacher ratio in our schools. Over the next five years we will progressively introduce maximum class guidelines which will ensure that the average size of classes for children under 9 will be below the international best-practice guideline of 20:1.

Implement a full range of measures to improve Accident and Emergency Services by significantly reducing waiting times and having senior doctors available at all times.

reform the system of planning and funding our hospitals to ensure that the needs of people in all parts of the country are addressed, and that public funding is producing the highest possible level and quality of care.

In fact if you want to read this monument to buÍl****, just visit http://www.ireland.com/focus/election_2002/parties/ffmanifesto.pdf#search=%22fianna%20fail%20election%20manifesto%202002%22

WexfordMusings

Cool Ironman, I was trying to find those bunch of lies and couldn't. Remeber that little thing called decentralisation - whatever happened there...

Do FF haters really believe every word in election manifestos?

If someone can show me that the last elected FG/Labour Government promised, if elected, to double the national debt ensuring we had a debt per head ratio worse than Chad, send unemployment into record levels and ensure 30,000 Irish people would leave the country every year to get a job, because that's exactly what they did, I will accept the integrity of the argument.

constitutionus

do election manifestos come with a sticker on the back saying


"caution: most of the contents wont happen"

SeanW

Martin "E-Voting" Cullen
Monica Leech?

FF government promised that a railway project would be built for Navan, for a commuter service to Dublin. They've promised it about a zillion times in the past ten years, each time with a later delivery date and more conditions.
Meath On Track campaign

SSIA Money pit. Utterly stupid and inexcusable incompetence IMO.
However, most SSIA accounts will mature just before the election, which itself will occur right between the start of the post SSIA party and the rate of inflation going to hell.
2000 extra Gardaí?
Hostpital buildings still lying unused in Mullingar.
Ideological differences between the PDs and FF are holding up the commissioning of 200 extra buses for Dublin City, DB is now trying to serve a 2006 city with a 1997 fleet.
The nationwide school bus system seems to have gone from terrible to near nonexistent.
Problems such as traffic and public transport overcrowding now worse than ever.
House prices continuing to spiral out of control at double digit annual rates.
FF doesn't care because they're too busy being friendly with all their dodgy builder and other 'old boys club' business types.
Kyoto protocol in tatters.
The last election preceeded by a splurge budget.
This one probably will too.

FF have done some good things though, like the smoking ban and the bag tax, but virtually everything else they've touched has been marred by incompetence, inaction, cronyism and electioneering.

If the electorate re-elects these clowns it will in my view be clear that the peope love being lied to, screwed and being bought with their own money.

Blue37

SeanW wrote:

If the electorate re-elects these clowns it will in my view be clear that the peope love being lied to, screwed and being bought with their own money.

That's always been the problem with "Democracy"......... Your average Joe in the street is more often than not a moron

jjbrien

Deleted User wrote:

Do FF haters really believe every word in election manifestos?

If someone can show me that the last elected FG/Labour Government promised, if elected, to double the national debt ensuring we had a debt per head ratio worse than Chad, send unemployment into record levels and ensure 30,000 Irish people would leave the country every year to get a job, because that's exactly what they did, I will accept the integrity of the argument.

Glad to see this FF supporter is still stuck in the 1980's. FF supporters seem to forget the Rainbow goverment between 1994 and 1997. They were the ones who cut corporation tax and started the influx of multi national companies. They were also the only ones who made third level education free for all. The current FF govement want to start charging again. This free fees helped the country to become great producing allot of graduates which helped lure multinational countries here.

I think he aslo forgets and FF supportes really do forget that the rainbow goverment were the first govement in the history of the state to cut paye and vat and actually have a surpus and pay off some of the national debt. I hope FG and labour do get in they might be better for this country in the long run. Of course FF and the PD's are going to start bribing the voters and pushing goverment spending up so they look like they are doing good I hope the public wont be fooled by this again.

Villain

The government don't have a windfall they just don't need to borrow as much as they thought they would.

IMO Fianna Fail will fail to buy the next election, anytime I hear a current Minister on about how they will fix the problems of Health system, Justice system etc. I just laugh, I mean if they haven't managed to sort out these issues in two terms of government why should we believe they will sort them during a third term in government.

FF's biggest downfall going into this election imo, is the fact that the departments of Health and Justice are been run by the PD's, the PD's have very very little support nationwide so they aren't going to get all the backlash.

SeanW

SeanW wrote:

FF have done some good things though, like the smoking ban and the bag tax.

The North and the economy are two other issues where they've been pretty spectacular. To me, they are more important than plastic bags...

As for jjbrien's post about 'being stuck in the 80s', the problem is that I have to go back that far to find a FG/Labour Coalition elected on the strength of their manifesto. The Rainbow Government may have done well, despite their best efforts to cock up the North, but I was talking about Governments elected by the people at election time...I don't think there was a manifesto produced before Labour crossed the floor of the Dail. And as you dismiss me as a 'FF supporter', I presume I may describe you as simply a 'FF hater'...

IronMan

Deleted User wrote:

The North and the economy are two other issues where they've been pretty spectacular. To me, they are more important than plastic bags...

The economy is a pretty self run thing. You wait for a crest in the global economy, lower the tax rates to attract investment and collect the returns. This rubbish about the knowledge economy is hyperbole. We speak English, we charge low corporate taxes, this group called the IDA will help us get a cheap place, lets move to Ireland. Its what you do with the returns and the effects of wealth on the economy is what is important. And these guys have not done a good job.

Kudos on the North, again I think it took more than the government of the Republic to achieve it, principally it took a ground shift in thinking on behalf of a lot of people from Northern parties. In addition, the solution has not been perfect, segregation is worse than ever, and both communities are voting for the extremes. Nevertheless, it beats what was there.

To be honest Conor, you remind me of all the other loyal defenders of Fianna Fail, that I encountered when I decided to join them in college. Blanket defence and attacking the other parties seemed to be the order of the day. Shortcomings were never admitted to, and debated in an open manner. People are annoyed with the failings of this government. The government will try to buy people off with a giveaway budget (of their own money). It normally works. It does not make them a good government. Can you point out anything that you feel they have failed on? Can you show us how many of the points raised in the programme for government have actually been implemented?

IronMan

IronMan wrote:

Blanket defence and attacking the other parties seemed to be the order of the day. Shortcomings were never admitted to, and debated in an open manner.

In fairness I was answering in a thread that contained nuggets like...

layke wrote:

I just want Rupert the bear out. I never want to see that bunch of jokers Fianna Fáil in power again.

and

SeanW wrote:

FF doesn't care because they're too busy being friendly with all their dodgy builder and other 'old boys club' business types.
Kyoto protocol in tatters.

If the electorate re-elects these clowns it will in my view be clear that the peope love being lied to, screwed and being bought with their own money.

That is just FF hating disguised as concern about issues. Either way it hardly stimulates reasoned debate.

IronMan wrote:

Can you point out anything that you feel they have failed on?

They are far from perfect. There are problems, one would obviously have hoped the situation in A&E would be better, that the Port Tunnel would now be open, that the E-Voting fiasco never happened and/or Cullen was ejected etc. But I still prefer those problems to bombs going off on a quarter of the island and an economic black hole on the remaining three quarters.

IronMan

Deleted User wrote:

But I still prefer those problems to bombs going off on a quarter of the island and an economic black hole on the remaining three quarters.

And do you honestly believe that the present government are the chief architects behind peace in the north, or a small cog in a big and complex machine? They certainly didn’t hinder it, Bertie took a more active interest in the process that his predecessor, but I always feel the role of our government in the running and future of the North is very much overstated.

As for economic development, can you point out to me the policies implemented by the government that brought on this economic success?
And can you explain how they cracked the magical code to economic success that had eluded previous administrations, or would you concede that the success of a economy has often little to do with the government (especially in a country the size of Ireland), but more on global economics, geographical position, language spoken etc?

Can 40 year mortgages, 3 hour commutes , increased drug abuse, alcoholism and suicide, hospital and classroom overcrowding be defined as the hallmarks of a successful and well run country? Alternatively, is the amount of disposable income one has the be all and end all when it comes to defining the success of a government?

IronMan

IronMan wrote:

And do you honestly believe that the present government are the chief architects behind peace in the north, or a small cog in a big and complex machine?

I believe that the Government was fundamental to the success of the Peace Process, as were a number of other factors like Major/Blair, Clinton etc. etc.

IronMan wrote:

And can you explain how they cracked the magical code to economic success that had eluded previous administrations, or would you concede that the success of a economy has often little to do with the government (especially in a country the size of Ireland), but more on global economics, geographical position, language spoken etc?

We went from being at the bottom of the economic heap (granted, at a time of global recession, but we were still the sick child of Europe) to being at the top (granted, at a time of global boom, but we were still the pinnacle of achievement). That was not a fluke, or simply bobbing along on the tide of international finance markets. Btw, I trust FG will continue the success, it's Labour and the threat of increased property, corporate and wealth taxes that lead me to conclude that a change of Government may precipitate an economic crash.

IronMan wrote:

Can 40 year mortgages, 3 hour commutes , increased drug abuse, alcoholism and suicide, hospital and classroom overcrowding be defined as the hallmarks of a successful and well run country?

No, they are the hallmarks of 21st century society across many many countries. The alternative is utopia. You tell me the country where noone moans about property prices, commuting, drugs and alcohol abuse, the health service etc. and I will be there. Many of them, like commuting times, or drugs and drink abuse, of course can be directly related to increased affluence and the spending power for new cars, substances etc.

The Insider

IronMan wrote:

The economy is a pretty self run thing.

I think that's one of the most idiotic things I have ever read on boards.

SeanW

Deleted User wrote:

They are far from perfect. There are problems, one would obviously have hoped the situation in A&E would be better, that the Port Tunnel would now be open, that the E-Voting fiasco never happened and/or Cullen was ejected etc. But I still prefer those problems to bombs going off on a quarter of the island and an economic black hole on the remaining three quarters.

And let's not forget about the SSIAs, that scandalous pissing away of money for which this gov't has become infamous.

And, very conveniently for FF, the vast bulk of SSIAs are due to mature around the time of the election. This was of course, a complete fluke accident. There's no way they actually intentionally timed that big post SSIA party and the end of the government term to come around the same time? Could they?

Or is the whole logic-defying money throwaway merely shameless electioneering by FF? Conor?

IronMan

The Insider wrote:

I think that's one of the most idiotic things I have ever read on boards.

Grand so, but you highlight any fundamental policy implemented by the current government that could help avoid the effects of a global recession, or has been the main reason for our economic success? Setting a low corporation tax rate, and granting tax concessions is hardly rocket-science. Its very effective though.
If Intel, Dell, Microsoft and other were to leave the country in the morning, what could the government do about it? A small, service orientated economy such as ours is massively influenced by global market conditions, ECB interest rates and so forth.
Government policy has very little to do with it, apart from the obvious ones highlighted earlier. Its the job of our government to take the fruits of this booming economy and invest it wisely.

SeanW

SeanW wrote:

And let's not forget about the SSIAs, that scandalous pissing away of money for which this gov't has become infamous.

I lack your cynicism. I saw the SSIA as a way (albeit expensive) of trying to encourage some culture of saving in a time where we are increasingly relying on credit.

Either way, as Enda Kenny and Pat Rabbitte both have SSIA accounts, you might confirm that you are outraged at their hyprocrisy.

Lemming

Deleted User wrote:

I lack your cynicism. I saw the SSIA as a way (albeit expensive) of trying to encourage some culture of saving in a time where we are increasingly relying on credit.

And what exactly have all those maturing SSIAs done for this credit-ridden society we now find ourselves stumbling along blindly in? Oh wait ... aha hahaha a... they've gone and contributed to the mess. Well geeee wizz whatdyaknow

God forbid the government actually tried to do something about calming the insanity that is a rapidly overheating economy as opposed to p*ssing money at it. Which is oddly enough a theme that is all too familiar with this government whenever ministers are challenged on "what they've done". The answer is nearly always consistant of "I've thrown x amount of money at it in the hope that it would disappear and didn't damn it to hell"

Either way, as Enda Kenny and Pat Rabbitte both have SSIA accounts, you might confirm that you are outraged at their hyprocrisy.

Anyone in this country would have been foolish not to open an SSIA given the opportunity that it was. For the individual it was easy money. For the state, a god-awful mistake.

partholon

Deleted User wrote:

I lack your cynicism. I saw the SSIA as a way (albeit expensive) of trying to encourage some culture of saving in a time where we are increasingly relying on credit.

Either way, as Enda Kenny and Pat Rabbitte both have SSIA accounts, you might confirm that you are outraged at their hyprocrisy.

credit wasnt a problem 5 years ago, it was inflation going through the roof that prompted the SSIAs (with the nice bonus theyd mature in an election year )

unfortunetly credit is a nighmare now, outstripping mortgages for the first time this year. and the inflation we sought to sidestep? comming right back to bite us in the arse in 2007. honestly how can an injection of nearly 16billion comming on stream in the march/april of 07 be anything but bad for the rest of the economy, let alone the freeing up of the monthly deposites theyve been paying as well. youve got idiots now paying 3 times the price for something cause they borrowed on the back of their SSIAs and acting like fools cause they never had that much money in one go before. " 3 grand for that luv, ah no problem ive got 20":rolleyes:

mark my words inflation will explode next year.

oh and incase your wondering , yes i have an SSIA. the gov may be fools but im not stupid to pass up free money. particularly when im one of the few guys i know not to be in debt! so im taking the cash and hoping to toss em out at the next election

jjbrien

Deleted User wrote:

despite their best efforts to cock up the North, but I was talking about Governments elected by the people at election time...I don't think there was a manifesto produced before Labour crossed the floor of the Dail. And as you dismiss me as a 'FF supporter', I presume I may describe you as simply a 'FF hater'...

Firstly I am not a FF hater. I do think that they did some good on some issues. But they have wasted allot and cocked up many things. Secondly John Bruton did not cock up the north he was one of the key people who made the good friday agreement. Bertie just pedeled what John Bruton and Albert Reynolds did. I think you may also be for getting that FG under Gareth Fitzgerald got the whole north south discussions under way which payved the way for the good friday agreement.

jjbrien

Deleted User wrote:

We went from being at the bottom of the economic heap (granted, at a time of global recession, but we were still the sick child of Europe) to being at the top (granted, at a time of global boom, but we were still the pinnacle of achievement). That was not a fluke, or simply bobbing along on the tide of international finance markets. Btw, I trust FG will continue the success, it's Labour and the threat of increased property, corporate and wealth taxes that lead me to conclude that a change of Government may precipitate an economic crash.

Another question for you Conor are you a member of FF?

As I previoly stated it was not FF who got the economy going it was indeed a world wide period of growth. If the rainbow goverment had not cut the corportaion tax and made 3rd level education free we would not have the growth we have today.

road_high

Fianna Fail will definitely fall at the next election, only question for me is how far?
Go back to 2002 and the election.So many of the FF TD's that swelled their Dail seats were elected close to final counts.
Locally a prime example for me is the dismal TD MJ Nolan (I doubt anybody outside my constituency(or many within it) has ever heard of him).
He was elected on the final count, narrowly beating a Labour candidate for the 5th seat. The tide was with FF that time, with the result they got an unprecedented 2,3 even 4 seats in many constituencies.
FF has so many 'marginal' seats and constituencies that no of them are really safe. And they know it too. I'm hoping this scaredness will result in some nice infighting amonst the FF candidates, adding further to the disarray:D

Good riddens Bertie and the rest, you've had your ten long years in the sun. Time for new blood and fresh ideas. Bye bye..

Villain

I know MJ well and he hasn't a hope of getting re-elected the tide he came in on has well and truly gone back out to sea and Fergal Browne of FG could well be the one to benefit, I just wonder how many other current FF TD's were elected on peoples party votes rather than personal votes. I would guess a lot so seat losses could well be huge and I can't see the other member of the current government gaining seats so that leaves......SF, oh dear Bertie this could get messy, having to turn to SF and what will McDowell think of that???

road_high

irish1 wrote:

I know MJ well and he hasn't a hope of getting re-elected the tide he came in on has well and truly gone back out to sea and Fergal Browne of FG could well be the one to benefit, I just wonder how many other current FF TD's were elected on peoples party votes rather than personal votes. I would guess a lot so seat losses could well be huge and I can't see the other member of the current government gaining seats so that leaves......SF, oh dear Bertie this could get messy, having to turn to SF and what will McDowell think of that???

If I were MJ I wouldn't even bother running next time. He won't have another dodgy Nationalist 'poll' next time to get him elected. FG will regain the 2nd seat here at his expense, only question will it be Phelan or Browne, bth are good candidates with energy and enthusiasim of youth behind them.
I think it more likely that FF would try and court Labour, but this will be difficult given their arrangements with FG.

jjbrien

jjbrien wrote:

Glad to see this FF supporter is still stuck in the 1980's.

jjbrien wrote:

I think you may also be for getting that FG under Gareth Fitzgerald got the whole north south discussions under way which payved the way for the good friday agreement.

Ah, so you can only refer to the 80s when it suits...I seeeeeeeeeee...

oscarBravo

jjbrien wrote:

Another question for you Conor are you a member of FF?

I don't think that's a particularly pertinent question.

Captain Trips

Deleted User wrote:

Do FF haters really believe every word in election manifestos?

If someone can show me that the last elected FG/Labour Government promised, if elected, to double the national debt ensuring we had a debt per head ratio worse than Chad, send unemployment into record levels and ensure 30,000 Irish people would leave the country every year to get a job, because that's exactly what they did, I will accept the integrity of the argument.

Yeah that's the irony. Ireland ranks behind only Norway, Luxemburg and Swizterland in GDP, we have light rail through the suburbs, vastly improved motorways (e.g., 83km straight in on N7 - at 120kmph all the way!) and

(drum roll)

....the fifth highest number of hospital beds per 100,000 population in the WORLD. Yes, only Swizterland, Norway, Japan and Netherlands have more hospital beds than Ireland. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_hos_bed-health-hospital-beds

If FG or Labour get in power we will have 60% income tax, high unemployment and return to The Good Old Days Before Fianna Fail (TM).

gurramok

WexfordMusings wrote:

Following on nicely from my post of "Democracy is Dead", (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054983933&referrerid=&highlight=) with the exchequer having so much money available will Fianna Fáil be able, now, with a windfall budget, buy the next election.

Check out http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/stor...4x&n=194390094 ... for what the opposition thinks.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

To answer your question, i think they will fail for a very longggg time.

For starters, they have discriminated against a whole generation of young people(anybody under 35) due to their collaboration with developers&builders at the FF tent in Galway races every year.
As my local TD and housing minister Noel Ahern has blatantly ignored, hundreds of thousands of people out there cannot afford a place to live, affordable housing is non-existent, only 1,600 units built in 5 years.
The first time buyers grant was removed, stamp duty threshold went up robbing yet more money of people, speculators are rampant in housing(those 275,000 empty properties), measures to discourage speculators were quietly dropped by FF.

Another huge bunch of people are living in rented accomodation paid for by the state where rent goes straight to landlord(that €440m figure that was subject of a thread a while back) which all taxpayers pay for.

Another hundred thousand or so have to wait over year to do a driving test affecting their quality of life prospects immensely through their pockets with higher insurance premiums while on provo licenses nevermind high car tax, illegal VRT etc.
To add to their misery, they are stuck in traffic jams daily getting pissed off with no public transport alternative.
They can't get sick as they would wait 9 hours to be seen by a doc in A& E not forgetting the €60 admission charge nevermind the €50 charge to see a GP plus med costs.

We got stealth taxes introduced through the bin tax. Oh wait, there is the laser card& credit card stamp duty, whatever that is for other than larceny from people's bank accounts.
Eircom, esb, bord gais, rte are allowed to hike prices to more than the european average at the flick of a pen.
Lack of regulation in law, retail, banking allow rampant rip-offs to continue.
Oh there are the publicans as well who lobbied successfully against cafe-bars to protect their interests to the detriment of the general public.

Then there is the lack of movement in tackling road carnage, penalty points introduced then no enforcement and FF did nothing to enforce road law by allocating resources to gardai, 5 years later a drink-drive law occurs, a bit late for those that died on the roads.
And the gardai, where are those extra 2000 gardai that were promised?
Murder rate is highest ever, only 18% of gun murders have been solved, drug gangs are rampant threatening the stability of the state.

Oh and FF let a few millionaires off the hook by not closing tax loopholes where they paid zero tax, to my eyes as a past voter of FF many years ago, FF only cater for the rich.
Our society is now where the poor including those on average wage have got poorer and the rich got richer.

gandalf

Captain Trips wrote:

Yeah that's the irony. Ireland ranks behind only Norway, Luxemburg and Swizterland in GDP, we have light rail through the suburbs, vastly improved motorways (e.g., 83km straight in on N7 - at 120kmph all the way!) and

And how do our average wages stack up against those countries. Also our infrastructure is no where near the standards in those countries, I have been lucky enough to have travelled to Japan and we are decades behind them. We have minimal light rail that is disjointed and still without the integrated card they promised to be up and running in 2002.

Check the linked stories.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=316041&issue_id=3406

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/8822491?view=Eircomnet

And the motorways, they only seem to prioritise them if their is a major golfing event about to come up.

(drum roll)

....the fifth highest number of hospital beds per 100,000 population in the WORLD. Yes, only Swizterland, Norway, Japan and Netherlands have more hospital beds than Ireland. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_hos_bed-health-hospital-beds

If FG or Labour get in power we will have 60% income tax, high unemployment and return to The Good Old Days Before Fianna Fail (TM).

Well you cannot believe how bad our Health system is until you have experienced it. Unfortunately I saw it last year and this, my father died in hospital after a prolonged illness. During that time we saw how badly stretched they are and how bad things really are. MRSA is rife. This year my mother got seriously ill and you'll be glad to hear she was waiting in A&E (the nice new one in Vincents which was still crowded with people on trolleys left right and centre) for 3 days before getting a bed in a ward. Haven't the HSE has been found to be counting Trolleys as beds in their statistics as well.

http://www.villagemagazine.ie/article.asp?sid=1&sud=10&aid=856

Oh and before you throw the taxation arguement read some of the comments above about corporation tax and VAT. You are already been taxed by this government to the hilt. Bin Charges and other such service charges, Stamp Duty, and don't forget the disgraceful charge hikes from ESB and Bord Gais on this governments watch.

IMHO the ecomony has done well despite the best efforts of this bunch of brownbaggers.

Cronus333

Of course they will lose seats. The only they could poll the same is with blatent gerrymandering. But don't worry, all of your favourite FF ministers will return with their new best friends, Labour! With or without Rabbitte.

gandalf

I doubt very much Labour will go into Government with FF ever again, they all remember the severe kicking they got from the electorate last time they did.

Villain

I agree I can't see Labour joining FF, I reckon FG, Labour and the Greens will get enough seats to take power from FF-PD's

gurramok

gurramok wrote:

To answer your question, i think they will fail for a very longggg time.

I believe FF could be in trouble in the next election alright, but if history teaches us one thing it's that this generation of voters, and indeed the last, do not re-elect non FF governments. If they will be out, it will be for no more than one term. Think they may take their beating this time round in the knowledge that they invariably do much better going into an election as opposition.

fly_agaric

Deleted User wrote:

history teaches us one thing it's that this generation of voters, and indeed the last, do not re-elect non FF governments. Think they may take their beating this time round in the knowledge that they invariably do much better going into an election as opposition.

Oh no - Not more of that stuff about how power is FF's birthright and its opponents only borrow the reins of govt. from FF!
For what speculation is worth, I think FF will get a well-deserved absolute pasting in Dublin. Beyond that???
I'll be quite interested to see how Bertie does in D. Central, how much his massive over-quota 1st pref. vote gets eroded.

fly_agaric

fly_agaric wrote:

Oh no - Not more of that stuff about how power is FF's birthright and its opponents only borrow the reins of govt. from FF!

No no, not at all, just that they seem to do well in elections following a FG Government, 57, 77, 87 and 97...or in elections when the year ends in a '7' come to think of it...

road_high

Deleted User wrote:

No no, not at all, just that they seem to do well in elections following a FG Government, 57, 77, 87 and 97...or in elections when the year ends in a '7' come to think of it...

2007 will be a BIG exception to that little anecdote so:D

We'll wait and see. FF look likely gain a seat in this constituency anyway (Sth Kerry) as the Labour TD is not running and the Healy Rae factor is waning. So expect a few years of reduced funding for various projects here.

road_high

Deleted User wrote:

We'll wait and see. FF look likely gain a seat in this constituency anyway (Sth Kerry) as the Labour TD is not running and the Healy Rae factor is waning. So expect a few years of reduced funding for various projects here.

Personally I can hardly wait to see. Hmm, wow gaining one seat in a 3-seater ain't exactly going to change the outcome of the election now is it?
FF/PD are on the wane too, get over it.

People are sick and tired of this endless FF drivel about how great over-property dependent economy is while people lie in trolleys in A+E, and our road,rail and infrastructure creeks at the seems, while they 'run' the country.

Villain

Anyone see www.soldiersofdestiny.org??

road_high

irish1 wrote:

Anyone see www.soldiersofdestiny.org??

Nice one:D

Villain

The guy that made the site was on the Last Word yesteday evening, he owned a hackney company and Taxi plate previously, he now lives in Gran Canaria.

mfitzy

mfitzy wrote:

People are sick and tired of this endless FF drivel about how great over-property dependent economy is while people lie in trolleys in A+E, and our road,rail and infrastructure creeks at the seems, while they 'run' the country.

Hmmmm. Not so sure. Let's wait for the election just to see how the 'People' actually feel. A few cranks on the Joe Duffy show giving out about a leak in the Port Tunnal and that small economist from Cork who wants us to stick our money in Cap Verde developments and boasts about how much he earns at RTE (while at the same time bemoaning the economy!) do not constitute the 'People'. The voters at election time, on the other hand...

road_high

Deleted User wrote:

Hmmmm. Not so sure. Let's wait for the election just to see how the 'People' actually feel. A few cranks on the Joe Duffy show giving out about a leak in the Port Tunnal and that small economist from Cork who wants us to stick our money in Cap Verde developments and boasts about how much he earns at RTE (while at the same time bemoaning the economy!) do not constitute the 'People'. The voters at election time, on the other hand...

...oh yes the same 'people' who failed to show up at Haughey's funeral.
Indeed the people will decide, not the sheep like (who obviously support FF)
you who wouldn't dare critise the government probably for fear that Kerry will loose it's ministerial rep after the next election and the gravy train for sports facilities in the county will come to an abrupt halt.
Perhaps these 'few cranks' on Joe Duffy and Mr. Hobbs might have actually struck a chord with the 'people' and they now realise we could do much better as country.Perish the thought...

mfitzy

mfitzy wrote:

...oh yes the same 'people' who failed to show up at Haughey's funeral.

Trying to see the relevance of funeral attendances to FF's vote at the next election. Failing...

mfitzy wrote:

not the sheep like (who obviously support FF)

Yeah, cos it's not like FG have pretty much been stalled at 20-25% of the vote, suggesting that they don't change, or Labour at 15-20%, suggesting again their vote remains pretty much the same too. No no, these parties attract new and dynamic voters election after election...:D

mfitzy wrote:

the gravy train for sports facilities in the county will come to an abrupt halt.

If you know Kerry, mind, one could point out that Dick Spring's legacy in North Kerry was the vastly overbudget Jeannie Johnston coffin ship restoration, tilting at windmills in Blennerville and steam trains running to nowhere. No wonder his own constituents turfed him out...

jjbrien

If the election goes the way the local and european elections did last time then it looks like FG and Labour wil lget in with the support of the greens. I just hope Gay Mitchel keeps his gob closed on the topic of the north.

SeanW

Only way FF can win the next election is by timing it to come just after the SSIA release, a reckless giveaway budget this year, and blatant gerrymandering.

partholon

Deleted User wrote:

Trying to see the relevance of funeral attendances to FF's vote at the next election. Failing...

possibly cause it was a big FF affair, they set up all they mobile screens in parks and fenced of miles of road......and no one came

conor74 wrote:

If you know Kerry, mind, one could point out that Dick Spring's legacy in North Kerry was the vastly overbudget Jeannie Johnston coffin ship restoration, tilting at windmills in Blennerville and steam trains running to nowhere. No wonder his own constituents turfed him out...

too true! but they didnt replace him with a FFer, shades of things to come in kerry south prehaps?:)

Sleepy

Have to say, I think whoever manage to turf out Fianna Fail will have no length of a stay anyhow as they'll be left with the fallout of the last few years of mismanagement. What government could survive a property crash, an economic recession, worsening healthcare, decreasing tax revenues, increasing unemployment etc? I'm not saying they'll all definitely happen but they are all increasingly likely at the moment.

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote:

What government could survive a property crash, an economic recession, worsening healthcare, decreasing tax revenues, increasing unemployment etc?

Huh?

As it stands, they'll be left with a fortune to correct any alleged problems. They cannot hide behind some allegation that the previous government overspent, so they will continue it!! You're post consists of 'the sky may fall in, but let's not blame the government of the day'...