We're born with a belief in the supernatural, says scientist

CatStevens

Zulu

Zulu wrote:

...but Adam never existed.

proof?
Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

Zulu

CatStevens wrote:

Zulu
proof?

How about you prove he did?
I can't prove the boogieman dosen't exist either, but thankfully the onus of proof lies with you proving Adam existence. Nice try though.

Schuhart

CatStevens wrote:

let me tell ya what hapened

I’m getting a vision. A voice is telling me you used to post as T-1111111111111.

Its says you are unlikely ever to appreciate that claiming God sent an Angel to dictate a book to a prophet seems just as unlikely as God fathering a child.

Its says you won’t even figure out that some atheists (okay, the atheist chosen as the mediator of this message) can respect the fact that Christians at least don’t try to deny the historical origins of the New Testament, but find the reluctance to subject the Quran to the same scrutiny by its adherents as tantamount to an admission of defeat.

It says this lack of moral courage at the heart of Islam will ultimately be its undoing, as people are not stupid. Sorry, the voice was coughing. It meant people are not that stupid.

Now, unfortunately I have to go as the voice wants to fly me over to Jerusalem and then up to Heaven where I’ll have a grand chat with Moses, Jesus and any of the other prophets that might be around. I’ll let you know how I get on. Maybe you could write it all down for me.

robindch

> No addition, deletion, or interpolation found its way into the Qur’an.

According to islamic historians, yes, that's what happened. According to conventional historians, though, the book languaished in a variety of forms for a long period, before one specific version became sufficiently popular that all other versions had to be destroyed. It's identical to what happened with the text of the bible.

Wibbs is our local expert on early islamic history. Though (s)he seems to be off on holiday at the moment.

> let me tell ya what hapened, Allah created Adam,

Um, do you have any evidence for this which is more substantial than in some books written a very long time ago?

CatStevens

Zulu

Zulu wrote:

How about you prove he did?

maybe we should discuss about God's existence first, what do you think
Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

CatStevens

Schuhart

Schuhart wrote:

I’m getting a vision. A voice is telling me you used to post as T-1111111111111.

I will answer such a q for The 1st and the last time: No

Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

Zulu

CatStevens wrote:

maybe we should discuss about God's existence first, what do you think

I think you shouldn't try to hijack this thread. If you wish to discuss God's existence - start another thread and I'll happily discuss.

CatStevens

robindch

robindch wrote:

According to islamic historians, yes, that's what happened. According to conventional historians, though, the book languaished in a variety of forms for a long period, before one specific version became sufficiently popular that all other versions had to be destroyed.

Whoa, btw I studied this, I can smell a huge misunderstanding, anyway, you can read more on that topic.

robindch wrote:

Um, do you have any evidence for this which is more substantial than in some books written a very long time ago?

As I said to one of the members here, I think to discuss this we have to discuss God's existence first

Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

CatStevens

Zulu

Zulu wrote:

I think you shouldn't try to hijack this thread. If you wish to discuss God's existence - start another thread and I'll happily discuss.

yep, that's why I asked ya so and didn't give my reply.
Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

ScumLord

I've mentioned this part of the brain before, I think it's a useful tool that the brain can call on. I don't think it's fair to say religion is based purely in human fears of life and death. Religion to me is more about recognising how great the universe is, being thankful for being part of it and curious about how it came to be. Spiritual thinking has been corrupted by restricting how we can think about the how and why but that doesn't mean it can't be used in a modern way. I don't think we'll be able to send messages telepathically or anything but you could probably change your emotional state and gain control over autonomic reflexes like Tibetan monks can.

Catstevens is the old testament universal to the big 3 religions? I always thought it was and that the Jewish religion is more or less still going off the old testament, Christians got the bible V.2 and Muslims work off the Quran. Are the ten commandments universal? I think it was a Muslim in the Christian forum that said they that's all wrong.

I just can't take these books as fact based on the time period they where writen in. These people didn't understand the world they lived in and where prone to fantisy. At the same time I do think their valuible books and are an attempt by the peole of the time to explain the world they lived in and find a better way to live in it. They did use the greatest thinking machines in the universe (unless there are smarter Aliens out there) I have faith in that and considering what they didn't know those books are very interesting.

5uspect

CatStevens wrote:

...the one who claims something should prove it, as for my 2 or three first posts in this thread I was commenting on the Article from an Islamic perspective, that's it:)

I appreciate that you believe these things but you have to admit there is no proof that any of it is true. All your proselytizing means nothing other than you found these ideas in a book. There is nothing to suggest, other then your blind faith, that anything in this book or indeed any book it factual. If the book suggested an experiment that could be performed which would result in an observation that couldn't be explained in another way (falsified) then It can be accepted, until a better explanation comes along. All you have shown us so far is that you are willing to follow your religion blindly rather than question your faith. I think the research that shows that we are "hardwired" to believe has received another data point.

CatStevens

Hi ScumLord

ScumLord wrote:

Catstevens is the old testament universal to the big 3 religions? I always thought it was and that the Jewish religion is more or less still going off the old testament, Christians got the bible V.2 and Muslims work off the Quran. Are the ten commandments universal?

What I know is what I said in one of my posts in this thread, before all ppl worshipped God, but when some ppl started to worship idols God sent to them prophets and messengers to bring them back, I will quote what I've posted

Allah stated in Quraan:2:136: say (O Muslims), '' we believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and to [the offspring of the twelve sons of Jacob] and that which has been given to Moses (i.e.Torah) and Jesus (i.e. Gospel), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to him we have submitted (in Islam).''Accordingly, Jesus and Moses are prophets of Allah and the Gospel and the Torah have been revealed to them from Allah. What happened was that all of these prophets (before Muhammad) were not well received by the majority of the people, for instance they started tampering with the teachings of Moses and Jesus peace be upon them, corrupting the Word of God, That is why Allah has sent Muhammad with the last Message (i.e. the Quraan) to bring all of mankind back to the true belief and to worship one God, without partners or intermediaries.And He promised to guard His last Message from corruption
Examples:
[NIV]Matthew: 15: 3:
And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? … 6: … Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition....9:...their teaching are but rules taught by men.

Jeremiah 8. 4-8… declares the LORD Almighty.' 4 "Say to them, 'This is what the LORD says:" 'When men fall down, do they not get up? When a man turns away, does he not return? 5 Why then have these people turned away? Why does Jerusalem always turn away? They cling to deceit; they refuse to return.6 I have listened attentively, but they do not say what is right. No one repents of his wickedness, saying, "What have I done?" Each pursues his own course like a horse charging into battle. 7 Even the stork in the sky knows her appointed seasons, and the dove, the swift and the thrush observe the time of their migration. But my people do not know the requirements of the LORD. 8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?9 The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have?

Jeremiah6. 10:To whom can I speak and give warning? Who will listen to me? Their ears are closed so they cannot hear. The word of the LORD is offensive to them; they find no pleasure in it.

Jeremiah14. 14 Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds. 15 Therefore, this is what the LORD says about the prophets who are prophesying in my name: I did not send them

Jeremiah23.36 But you must not mention 'the oracle of the LORD ' again, because every man's own word becomes his oracle and so you distort the words of the living God, the LORD Almighty, our God.

Quraan: 2:85: … Then do you believe in a part of the Scripture and reject the rest?
Quraan:… inspite of the fact that a party of them used to hear the Word of Allah, then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it?...Know they not that Allah knows what they conceal and what they reveal, … then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, this is from Allah, … Woe to them for what their hands have written…

Accordingly, Allah told us that the Torah and the gospel have been corrupted; therefor Allah has sent Muhammad with the last Message (i.e. the Quraan) Quraan: 15:9: Verily, We , it is We who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. Quraan) and surely We will guard it (from corruption).

For Muslims the Qur’an is the last but not the only holy book revealed by Allah to mankind through His messengers. It is, however, the only holy book which remained intact from the time of its revelation until the present time. No addition, deletion, or interpolation found its way into the Qur’an.
Quraan: 27:76: Verily, this Quraan narrates to the Children of Israel most of that in which they differ.
Matthew; 21: 43: Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

As for the ten commandments they can be found in islam as I read that but not sure if all of them can be found I didn't read the entire article,Islam is a universal religion Accordingly the 10 commandments should be so, I can quote it but you know I will take off the topic by doing so.

ScumLord wrote:

I just can't take these books as fact based on the time period they where writen in.

so after 3 centuries we shouldn't take the current books as fact based on the time period they where writen in!!!!

ScumLord wrote:

These people didn't understand the world they lived in and where prone to fantisy. At the same time I do think their valuible books and are an attempt by the peole of the time to explain the world they lived in and find a better way to live in it. They did use the greatest thinking machines in the universe (unless there are smarter Aliens out there) I have faith in that and considering what they didn't know those books are very interesting.

That's what you think anyway, theories

Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

CatStevens

5uspect

5uspect wrote:

you have to admit there is no proof that any of it is true.

No, I admit it is true and there is proof, as for proof every person may has its own proof, like many has their own experience which provd something to them bla bla bla

5uspect wrote:

All you have shown us so far is that you are willing to follow your religion blindly rather than question your faith..

Dear let me tell ya something, I was only commenting from an islamic perspective, I wasn't trying to prove anything or to show how I follow my religion or whatsoeva.

Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

Zulu

CatStevens wrote:

No, I admit it is true and there is proof, as for proof every person may has its own proof, like many has their own experience which provd something to them bla bla bla ...

where is this proof that you speak of?

You still haven't started another thread, btw, don't you think this thread has been hijacked enough?

Zombrex

CatStevens wrote:

No, I admit it is true and there is proof, as for proof every person may has its own proof, like many has their own experience which provd something to them bla bla bla

Then that isn't proof.

If I have a "feeling" that God exists that might be God talking to me, or it might be a chemical pathway mis-firing in my brain. A lot of druggies claim to experience God when under the infulence of certain drugs, which would imply that the feeling religous people interprate is God talking to them personally is actually just a by product of the way the brain works.

There is no actual proof God exists. All the old explinations of the way the universe works that were originally attributed to God have now been discovered to be natural systems. The only thing religous people have left is their own personal feelings on the matter, and as the OP article shows, our brains are pre-dispossed to interpretating the universe around the idea of a god.

You seem to believe you have a person connection to your god. But then so did a lot of others who believed in a different religion. Joan of Ark wages wars against the English in the name of Jesus Christ because she believed he spoke directly to her. You might claim she was mad, but then a mad person doesn't know they are mad. You could be equally mad

robindch

Here's the official deity FAQ:

http://www.400monkeys.com/God/

CatStevens

Zulu

Zulu wrote:

where is this proof that you speak of?

I still didn't speack about it.

Zulu wrote:

You still haven't started another thread

you do it, and I will come

Zulu wrote:

btw, don't you think this thread has been hijacked enough?

I'm replying or do ya want me to ignore their posts

Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

CatStevens

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

Then that isn't proof.

I didn't give any yet

Wicknight wrote:

If I have a "feeling" that God exists that might be God talking to me, or it might be a chemical pathway mis-firing in my brain. A lot of druggies claim to experience God when under the infulence of certain drugs, which would imply that the feeling religous people interprate is God talking to them personally is actually just a by product of the way the brain works.

Dear when I said experience it doesn't mean such or the like experience only

Wicknight wrote:

now been discovered to be natural systems.

Any proofs BTW many times scientists say something today and change their mind tomorrow

Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

Zulu

CatStevens wrote:

I still didn't speack about it.

Excuse me? Here - let me remind you:

CatStevens wrote:

No, I admit it is true and there is proof,

You say there is proof - care to provide it?

CatStevens

robindch wrote:

Here's the official deity FAQ:
http://www.400monkeys.com/God/

http://www.harunyahya.com/
http://www.harunyahya.com/c_refutation_atheism.php
http://www.harunyahya.com/c_refutation_darwinism.php
http://www.evolutiondeceit.com/
http://www.evolutiondocumentary.com/
http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/

Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

CatStevens

Zulu

Zulu wrote:

Excuse me? Here - let me remind you:
You say there is proof

yes I siad so but I didn't give any? so I didn't speak about any proof that what I meant:)

Zulu wrote:

care to provide it?

I already siad to someone here to start new thread, let's discuss there

Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

Zulu

CatStevens wrote:

http://www.harunyahya.com/
http://www.harunyahya.com/c_refutation_atheism.php
http://www.harunyahya.com/c_refutation_darwinism.php
http://www.evolutiondeceit.com/
http://www.evolutiondocumentary.com/
http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/

Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

Ah internet websites - it must be true!!! :rolleyes: "The Real Ideological Root of Terrorism: Darwinism" ...gimmie a break please.

I'm sorry CatStevens, God gave me a brain and an intellect with it. The "proof" you've provided isn't going to cut it. I can equally provide links as to why Scientology is the "true" religion, but I won't bother trying to insult anyone intelligence. ...and by-the-by, proving that Darwinism is false doesn't prove that Adam or God for that matter exists.

You either have proof or you don't - and you don't, but thats ok; we can discuss. Just don't claim to have proof when you don't, because thats a lie, and baby Jesus cries in heaven when people lie.

Zombrex

CatStevens wrote:

I didn't give any yet

I was referring to the everyone has their own proof part of your post. If it is a proof that only applies to one person then it isn't proof.

But if you wish to explain your proof that a god exists I'm all ears. But you must understand that it is not possible to accept explinations along the lines of "I have a feeling" or "he has spoken to me" as proof. You could just as easily be mad

CatStevens wrote:

Any proofs

Well you would have to name a naturall phenomona first.

For example, lightning used to be attributed to the actions of the gods. So was rain fall and other weather events.

CatStevens wrote:

BTW many times scientists say something today and change their mind tomorrow

That is a fundamental aspect of science.

Not only can a scientific theory be incorrect, it must be possible for it to be shown incorrect when it is first written up, otherwise it is not accepted as science.

CatStevens

Zulu

Zulu wrote:

gimmie a break please.

well, that's the author's opinion and you don't have to read that particular book if you don't want to, there is number of other books, Articles, Audio and video stuffs.

Zulu wrote:

The "proof" you've provided isn't going to cut it.

Did I provide any?

Zulu wrote:

I won't bother trying to insult anyone intelligence

you know we have urinary system, digestive system all by chance ,there is a link between the digestive system and the urinary system, by chance.. and there is a pipe delivers what I eat to my stomach by chance This is the widest imagination eva just like the Japanese Animes

Zulu wrote:

You either have proof or you don't - and you don't, but thats ok; we can discuss. Just don't claim to have proof when you don't, because thats a lie

I have and to note something what I may say it as proof you may not

Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

layke

We are at a turning point in the history of mankind. Atheism, that has so influenced the world of science and thought since the 18th century, is now undergoing an inevitable collapse.
In this film you will see how the most basic assumptions of atheism collapsed with scientific, political and sociological developments in the past decades. From the theories of Charles Darwin or Sigmund Freud, to the fall of communism or the hippie dream, see how the atheist dogma falls at the dawn of the 21st century.

Lol, talk about denial. I'd love to see that vid tbh and how it's been spun.

Zombrex

CatStevens wrote:

http://www.harunyahya.com/
http://www.harunyahya.com/c_refutation_atheism.php
http://www.harunyahya.com/c_refutation_darwinism.php
http://www.evolutiondeceit.com/
http://www.evolutiondocumentary.com/
http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/

Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens

Oh great, another Creationist with a lack of understanding of biological evolution and science. Just what we need :rolleyes:

CatStevens, despite what those websites will tell you, neo-darwin biological evolution is an observabe fact. You can observe the different elements taking place. You can observe gentic mutation causing an increase in genetic material. You can observe self-replicating molecules initially forming naturally and then beinging to evolve.

I'm sorry if that contradicts with your particular holy book, but really that is just something you are going to have to learn to deal with. Most religious people have managed to, I really fail to see why Creationists cannot accept it happens.

Zombrex

CatStevens wrote:

I have and to note something what I may say it as proof you may not

I've started a new thread for you, we await this "proof" with baited breath.

But really it better not be something like "I was sitting on the toliet one day and God started to talk to me in my head. He told me to ..."

Zulu

CatStevens wrote:

you know we have urinary system, digestive system all by chance ,there is a link between the digestive system and the urinary system, by chance.. and there is a pipe delivers what I eat to my stomach by chance This is the widest imagination eva just like the Japanese Animes:)

I'm sorry, what are you banging on about?

CatStevens wrote:

I have:)and to note something what I may say it as proof you may not

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

robindch

> many times scientists say something today and change their mind tomorrow

Yes, it's because of a process which I've heard is called "learning". Some people go on doing this all their lives, while others stop when their brains become full. And there are a few frightful people, but just a few -- the sacred vaults of heaven preserve us from them! -- who think that reconsidering your conclusions when you know more facts is actually a good thing. Burn 'em, I say!

CatStevens

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

CatStevens, despite what those websites will tell you, neo-darwin biological evolution is an observabe fact. You can observe the different elements taking place. You can observe gentic mutation causing an increase in genetic material. You can observe self-replicating molecules initially forming naturally and then beinging to evolve.

And does the prove the inexistence of God
Peace & Love
Yours Sincerely
CatStevens