Polish School In Dublin

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Terry

i think they should have their own buses too.

also, they shouldn't be allowed to drink from the same water fountains as Irish people.

this is a really ridiculous idea that will just fuel racism.

Ruu_Old

This is really silly, I have no problem with any Polish coming to Ireland if they wish to help developing the country, make a living for themselves and integrate into society. Whatever about the Irish education system, it looks like a slap in the face for them from the Polish government.

Collie D

While I would hope that any immigrants coming here would try to integrate with the natives and that the Irish tried to accept them I honestly don't see the harm in this. We have schools run along denominational lines already.

angelbaby

that is such a dum idea!!!!!!whats the point of it?!
the may as well have different schools for every other nationality there is in ireland if their goin to do that.
it really is a pointless,stupid idea.

Kintarō Hattori

the opportunity to follow the Polish national curriculum

If you want to follow Poland's national curriculum surely you should be in Poland to do that. As has been mentioned this is not the way to proceed. This will just divide and alienate people more. If you come to a foreign country, your leaving your countries ways and means of doing things behind you.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I see this as a really bad idea.

Dave!

very silly

Terry

those schools are being phased out in favour of non-denominational ones.

how that **** are immigrants supposed to fit into Irish society if they are schooled in a foreign (to Ireland) way.

robinph

eo980 wrote:

If you want to follow Poland's national curriculum surely you should be in Poland to do that. As has been mentioned this is not the way to proceed. This will just divide and alienate people more. If you come to a foreign country, your leaving your countries ways and means of doing things behind you.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I see this as a really bad idea.

What if the family moves over and the kid is in their last year or two of the Polish curiculum, or they have moved over only for a couple of years with young kids so don't then want them to be left behind when they move back to Poland, or any other variation along the lines where they don't want to disrupt the kids education to much.

Töpher

It's not too hard, a bit of Mr. Sheen and an old cloth. Don't see why a school needs to be dedicated to it. :eek:

/me gets coat

layke

Perhaps but it gives Polish children the opportunity to learn more about their own roots. Their history, their culture will be emphasised much more then any Irish school will offer. While I admit I am not some one who is a strong believer of 'being Irish' some people are very proud of it. Why not give the Polish their right to 'be Polish'.
Seems a fair cop to me.

Although some of the concerns expressed about breeding racism are valid I don't think they will spread hatred throughout Irish society as you may think. When ever I speak to people about the Polish their is generally a good image, hard working, fit wimmen folk etc. I just think the Polish have been here long enough for the Irish to be come adjusted.

I don't really see the problem. There is a 'Lycee Francaise' in London for French kids, and I know scores of people at college who attended British schools abroad. Why is it different when it's the other way around? I don't think most people would move to Hong Kong and dump their kids in a Chinese speaking school, they'd look for a British/American one. I guess if the family are planning to stay for good there might be problems with integration but there are other social activities to do.

datk

robinph wrote:

What if the family moves over and the kid is in their last year or two of the Polish curiculum, or they have moved over only for a couple of years with young kids so don't then want them to be left behind when they move back to Poland, or any other variation along the lines where they don't want to disrupt the kids education to much.

I would have thought that is something that should have been thought about before making a decision to move. I know a fair few people who in the 80's got US Visas in the DV Lottery Scheme but ended up not taking them up for that reason, they wanted their kids to have an irish education and didn't fancy US schools etc etc.

I honestly think if you move to another country then you have to adapt, there's so much talk about dropping religion and Irish language as compulsory from the curriculum but what about people want what they had for their kids. My brother moved to France for a while and sent his kids to an international school because of the language thing and when he was in the UK he sent them to a state school, that was his choice. But if you send a kid to a state school then you take what each country offers in their state schools.

Just my opinion!!

Dagnir Glaurung

It's only one school. Isn't there an English school in Dublin for those who want to take A-levels?

Wertz

Most Polish guys I've worked with have said that Ireland is a only a temporary thing for them whilst the going is good, save some good money and then head back...if you came here with kids of schoolgoing age and intend for them only to be here in the short term then surely integrating them into a foreign school system is counterproductive for both the children and the Irish education system.
You get your kids back to Poland and their few years of learning english and learning other subjects through it have been more or less a waste of their formative years.

exiztone

robinph wrote:

What if the family moves over and the kid is in their last year or two of the Polish curiculum, or they have moved over only for a couple of years with young kids so don't then want them to be left behind when they move back to Poland, or any other variation along the lines where they don't want to disrupt the kids education to much.

That's their problem. If they want to move to Ireland, they should integrate with us fully, otherwise, don't move here.

Raphael

People are looking at this the wrong way if you ask me. I's not like people are propsing to have a new school in every town where all the polish kids can go to do their Leaving Cert, It's a school which teaches the Polish curriculum.

Now, there were a lot of Polish people in my secondary school, and I know they all struggled because they had learn everything through english, their second language. This can make things like sciences, which require technical vocabulary, very difficult. Especially if you're only coming to Ireland for the senior cycle.

IMHO this just gives polish children an option to learn in their first language, the same as Gaelscoils do for Irish speakers.

DublinWriter

The Polish ambassador stated that the school was a way for Polish children to gain a traditional Polish education. Fair enough.

But guess what? We've been here already. The aim of this school is to facilitate Polish ex-pats and their kids who want to return to their "auld sod".

Just like many of the Irish who left for the UK and US in the 1950's/1960's, going home was only a pipe-dream. I think it's the same for many of the Poles here now. They're here for the long-run, if they like it or not, and their kids will be as Irish as the Irish themselves.

I fully support the Islamic school in Clonskea because of the fundamental differences in relgious culture, but a Polish school? Naaaaaaaaah.

Ruu_Old

robinph wrote:

What if the family moves over and the kid is in their last year or two of the Polish curiculum, or they have moved over only for a couple of years with young kids so don't then want them to be left behind when they move back to Poland, or any other variation along the lines where they don't want to disrupt the kids education to much.

Not to be rude but that is an issue everyone who takes on a big decision to move to another country has to deal with. Also afaik schools in Ireland are fairly accomodating to students from other countries.

iFight

Don't agree with that at all.

DublinWriter wrote:

The Polish ambassador stated that the school was a way for Polish children to gain a traditional Polish education. Fair enough.

Surely if you want a 'traditional polish' education, you would stay in Poland. You cant go to another country and try chamge it to be more like 'home'.

DublinWriter

robinph wrote:

So we like the Poles because they are catholic, probably, and so are happy for them to fully integrate with our pure Irish kids, but those evil muslims should be kept away at all costs?

Firstly, Irish Muslims chose to open their own Primary school because their kids would not get instruction in the Qu'ran and classical Arabic in Irish Catholic-run Primary schools.

They choose to do this, and receive state money just as Prodestant Primary and Secondary schools do.

OK Robin? Put yer toys back in the pram now.

Elmo

No problems with interdominational schools or for that matter international schools, However all should be require to follow the same school cirrculum.

After all Ireland has the one best Educational System in the world.

However Secondary Schools should not be interdominalional or international, that would cause greater divisions.

If you are going to a new country really you should just be willing to allow your children intergrate with the natives and teach them about your country and your lanuage yourself. IMO.

Budo.Judo.Kev

Elmo wrote:

After all Ireland has the one best Educational System in the world.

Really? Why so? Are you familar with the educational systems around the world? What makes you so sure? Stop making unsubstaniated comments please.

beldub

sorry but where is the problem. There is German school, French school and Muslim school already.

After all Ireland has the one best Educational System in the world.

You are joking aren't you?

DublinWriter

Elmo wrote:

After all Ireland has the one best Educational System in the world.

Ireland *had* one of the best educational systems in the world.

Nowdays that crown goes to the Germans IMHO.

Ruu_Old

DublinWriter wrote:

Ireland *had* one of the best educational systems in the world.

Nowdays that crown goes to the Germans IMHO.

Agreed, those days are long gone I'm afraid.

Sangre

These types of schools are quite common in large cities with large interntaional commerce centres or large immigrant numbers e.g. Paris you could go to school to do your A levels or GCSE etc., while your parents worked there for a few years.

DublinWriter

Sangre wrote:

These types of schools are quite common in large cities with large interntaional commerce centres or large immigrant numbers e.g. Paris you could go to school to do your A levels or GCSE etc., while your parents worked there for a few years.

There's even the American School off Merrion Sq.

However, these ethos of those types of schools is to provide ex-pats' kids get second-level qualifications with the intention of getting college places back home.

The proposed Polish school is primary level.

Elmo

It is a well know fact that Ireland had and prob still does have one of the best educational systems in the world. Why we feel the need to change it is beyond my one of the only things we should be proud of. One of the many reason people come to be educated in Ireland is for our education, including many of the multinational companies. One of the main reason for the Celtic Tiger is our Education System.

sceptre

Elmo wrote:

It is a well know fact that Ireland had and prob still does have one of the best educational systems in the world.

Something isn't so merely because one person says that it's well known. Showing where a few other people have said it, preferably with something tangiable to reinforce that view is a useful thing if you'll be building an opinion on that pile of quicksand.

DublinWriter

Elmo wrote:

It is a well know fact that Ireland had and prob still does have one of the best educational systems in the world.

Really? I suppose it would be stretching you a little to ask of empirical proof of that statement?

Elmo wrote:

One of the many reason people come to be educated in Ireland is for our education, including many of the multinational companies. One of the main reason for the Celtic Tiger is our Education System.

Let's not get all warm and green and fuzzy about this.

The reasons most companies moved here was because (in order of importance):

1. The generous 10% coporation tax on offer at the time.
2. The lack of influence of Trade Unions (as opposed to France/Germany)
3. The lack of corporate red-tape and compliance issues (as opposed to France/Germany)
4. We are native English speakers (as opposed to France/Germany)

Don't cod yourself about all that nonscence about education being a factor. What level of education do you expect people to have in order to answer phones for AOL in the East Point Centre, assemble PCs on a production line in Dell in Bray, and pack boxes for Microsoft out in Sandyford?

We don't have one of the best educational systems. I'm sorry to break that to you, but the level of investment we make in primary level education is pityful.

ircoha

DublinWriter wrote:

Really? I suppose it would be stretching you a little to ask of empirical proof of that statement?


Let's not get all warm and green and fuzzy about this.

The reasons most companies moved here was because (in order of importance):

1. The generous 10% coporation tax on offer at the time.
2. The lack of influence of Trade Unions (as opposed to France/Germany)
3. The lack of corporate red-tape and compliance issues (as opposed to France/Germany)
4. We are native English speakers (as opposed to France/Germany)
5 the way big corporations can tell Bertie et al to go f themself re things like the gum levy, the Hep C cockup

Don't cod yourself about all that nonscence about education being a factor. What level of education do you expect people to have in order to answer phones for AOL in the East Point Centre, assemble PCs on a production line in Dell in Bray, and pack boxes for Microsoft out in Sandyford?

We don't have one of the best educational systems. I'm sorry to break that to you, but the level of investment we make in primary level education is pityful.

Good post DW.

Anyway what about putting the Pschool beside the German school in Clonskeagh, on the east side to keep the OP who worried about being classed as Eastern European happy.

This co-location would enable them to re-create their cultural baggage and for the school play: Schindlers List.

Elmo

http://www.educationireland.ie/httpdocs/htm/about/why.html

Ireland has one of the best education systems in the world according to the 2004 IMD World Competitiveness Report. It has close links to industry and is characterised by creativity, flexibility, agility, pragmatism and informality. Education has been a key factor in making Ireland one of the fastest growing economies in the world over the past decade. Government policy on investment in research and "4th level" education as the key to developing Ireland as a knowledge society in the new global economy.

Perhaps the site is a little bias buy hey.

JackKelly

I really don't see the problem. As people said, there both a German and French school in Dublin, why not polish? It's hardly a snub to the Irish Education System, it just makes it easier for people to settle down coming from poland.

Elmo

it just makes it easier for people to settle down coming from poland.

Most of the kids are settled it's not like they haven't lived most of their lives in Ireland. Fair eought for Children of about 10 or 12 coming into the country. But sure their needs to be some type of intergration with the Irish population. It just pulls children apart when they don't have any separtatist views.

Sonnenblumen

I would like to state a couple of points mainly to help the prevailing ignorance in many of the posts.

• separate schools do not undermine integration, approx half the pupils in the German school are Irish born, Irish citizens
• the german schools follows both Irish curriculum and also german equivalents
• I would presume the Polish school will also follow examples of other international schools

Finally all those Posters which so vehemently insist that Ireland has the best education can articulate their respective points with the benefit of 13 years pre-University education, in their wonderful native Irish language.

I would expect that most Polish/German/French children are more competent with foreign language than most Irish adults are with their wonderful native language. You go to school to learn, but you educate yourself!

Flukey

I do not have a problem with there being a Polish school. It is not in any way a snub to anyone. They will still be here, and it is only a small part of their time here. They won't be in the school 24 hours a day, so it is not taking them away from Irish society in any way. Where is the first place that Irish people hit when they go abroad? The Irish pub! Should they all be banned, along with other places Irish people congregate abroad? There are many Irish pubs/clubs/schools etc. in other countries. In every country there are all sorts of things from other nations. People are trying to make an issue out of nothing here.

bounty

anyone who is against a polish school in dublin is racist

Elmo

I do not have a problem with there being a Polish school. It is not in any way a snub to anyone. They will still be here, and it is only a small part of their time here. They won't be in the school 24 hours a day, so it is not taking them away from Irish society in any way. Where is the first place that Irish people hit when they go abroad? The Irish pub! Should they all be banned, along with other places Irish people congregate abroad? There are many Irish pubs/clubs/schools etc. in other countries. In every country there are all sorts of things from other nations. People are trying to make an issue out of nothing here.

Yeah I agree with that. But i think irish pubs should be banned, go visit a place don't go to the ****ing irish pub ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Finally all those Posters which so vehemently insist that Ireland has the best education can articulate their respective points with the benefit of 13 years pre-University education, in their wonderful native Irish language.

I think we have a problem in Ireland. One of Self deprecation, if we aren't on the bottom of the list for everything we are not happy.

I don't think any non-english lanuage is thought well in Ireland and we are failing people hugely in this area. But that is one of a huge list of subjects thought well.

Ta cupla focail as gealge agam ach ta mo grammadach ufasach agus mo litiur. Ta bron orm ach ta dyslexia agam, nil teagan mo abhar nios foir. An bhfuil se sin ceart go leor?

ircoha

bounty wrote:

anyone who is against a polish school in dublin is racist

Bounty:Are u conservative?

What about the 600 homeless poles that are here that the Polish Govn denies are here?

What is the funding for the Pschool?

MrJoeSoap

bounty wrote:

anyone who is against a polish school in dublin is racist

Just like the Tayto ad... there's always one. :rolleyes:

Terry

a few months back WhiteWashMan said that anyone who calls someone else a ricist on this forum will be banned.
careful now.

Yook

bounty wrote:

anyone who is against a polish school in dublin is racist

This is either a really lame joke or you are retarded.

Captain Trips

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

Really? Why so? Are you familar with the educational systems around the world? What makes you so sure? Stop making unsubstaniated comments please.

It's true in certain ways: (I am in a NationMaster mood this evening)

3rd level/College education attainment: Ireland 3rd in world (Canada and US are 1 and 2).

Adult high level of literacy: Ireland 14th in world - we are absolutely trounced by Scandinavians here, and most of Europe.

Scientific literacy: Ireland is 9th. We beat out Sweden, France, Norway, United States, Switzerland, Germany

School Life Expectancy: 17th for Ireland - not great really, but we beat the Austrians, Canadians, Japanese. Of course, we get our ass kicked by the Scandinavians again (but so does everyone eh?)

Average students aged 13 in a class: Ireland is 19.2, bang on average, beating out Netherlands, France, Japan (and Colombia) which all have more numbers per class, but losing to central europeans and scandinavians and Austrai, who bizarrely have 4.7 students per class at age 13.


Considering our education spending is only 5,5% of GDP (44th in the world), our duration of compulsory education only 10 years (52nd in world): reports of class disorder is in 26% which is not bad at all, as the scandinavians reports more disorder in class. Perhaps we need to make more noise as kids as then we will become more literate?

Overall, based on my NationMaster research, we do indeed have one of the best education systems in the world, if you include Chad, Congo and South America. If you look at EU, US and Commonwealth, EEA ("The West"), wehave some good stats near the top of the chart, and others near the bottom.

Considering the lack of investment, Irish people seem to be quite successful. Perhaps when one says "one of the best" you read it to be "the best". It's good, has some points that are better than the Dutch and Norwegians, and some points that are trailing with the Italians.

cournioni

Einst&#252 wrote: »

It's not too hard, a bit of Mr. Sheen and an old cloth. Don't see why a school needs to be dedicated to it. :eek:

/me gets coat

Diogenes

So are you opposed to Polish people coming over here taking our jobs and putting an additional strain on our public services (their children in our school)

Or are you opposed to the Polish government coming here and teaching their children in their own schools and "not intergrating"

Jesus you've got the fúcked coming and going.

Here's three very good reasons for Polish people to have their own school;

1. They're here temporarly and have brought their children, and plan to return before their children have grown up, and don't want to disrupt their education any further.

2. They've got young kids and feel they're struggling learning through a foreign language, you feel they'd do better learning through Polish.

3. You feel that your children's education is better served than wasting several years complusary studying a language that the Irish never use.

Seriously try convincing the Poles or anyone that we have "one of the finest education systems in the world" yet some how spawn thousands of leaving cert students who are incapable of speaking or understanding Irish a few years later.

Celticfire

bounty wrote:

anyone who is against a polish school in dublin is racist

:rolleyes:

Executive Steve

Diogenes wrote:

3. You feel that your children's education is better served than wasting several years complusary studying a language that the Irish never use.

Seriously try convincing the Poles or anyone that we have "one of the finest education systems in the world" yet some how spawn thousands of leaving cert students who are incapable of speaking or understanding Irish a few years later.

oddly enough... i know TWO seperate polish couples who actually go to irish language classes in order to be able to help their children with irish homework...

one of them has better irish than i do - although i grew up over in holland and never learnt it in school so that deosn't count, and i do speak a fair bit of irish, mainly at home with my fluent girlfriend...

i remember meeting english kids who went to international schools though... their dutch was always really bad, and i never felt they really had too much of a tie to the area they were settled in; many of them had parents who did a few years work in each country....

as for a polish school, well, they have german ones, they have french ones... why is this even news?

as for the poles "coming here and putting a strain on our services" they pay tax you know - they pay for the services

as for education systems, well many of the poles i've met have been pretty educated creative cultured people... the irish education system does very poorly at churning them out imo...

Terry

all this bitching and moaning about the Irish education system bewilders me. many people seem to have done quite well out of it. i'll just put it down to the usual Irish way of doing thing: bitch and moan to anyone within earshot, but never actually do anything worthwhile to solve the problem.

luckyvegas7

may aswell build schools for every seperate nationalities in ireland then!..