Whats the Story With School books?

mike65

Excuse my ignorance but what is it with this country and the need to buy new schools books every year? Do pulpils have a mass burning in June? Are they all pulped and recycled or are they bought as the "old" ones are instantly out of date come the summer hollidays?

Is it a racket to keep Gill and MacMillan in clover?

Mike.

Enright

its a racket
over the last 10 years i have noticed the bill for school books steadly increasing. some of it is done to new teachers recommending work books some at a cost of 12 euro. this means that these cannot be passed on. in relation to secondary school books, the lastest marketing gimmic seems to be the inclusion of a cd with the text book, as second hand book resellers cannot verify the state of the cd, they will not purchase them back, meaning more sales.

some school do offer book rental schemes

free education me a#se

mike65

In my day it was simple (and simpler times) the school owned the books and they were passed through the years until they collapsed! And we had desks and lockers so we did'nt haul a sack load around.

Mike.

Nevyn

It is not so much the case with secondary school books.
The vast majority of primary school books appear to be 'worlbooks' that the kids
draw, write and colour in and so they can't be reused.
My childrend primary school sent home the workbooks with them at the end of the year and after the kids filling any pages that they had missed the books ended up in the green paper recycling bin.

The goverments does have a share in fallon books that publish the majority of primary school books.....

A lot of primary school do run a bulk buy and rental scheme.
They buy in bulk with neighbouring secondary school the likes of the workbooks and get a discount and the english and irish readers are rented out to the children and remain the property of the school.

The cost of text books for those stating Jr cert and Leaving Cert seems to get worse this year I hear it is betweeen 400 and 600 euro atm.

eimearnll

MY SON STARTS SCHOOL TOMORROW,HE,S 4 IT COST ME 75 EURO.HOW MANY BOOKS CAN A 4 YEAR OLD NEED,HE CANT READ YET:o

mike65

The goverments does have a share in fallon books that publish the majority of primary school books....

I wonder which TDs family owns it?

Mike.

Nevyn

eimearnll wrote:

MY SON STARTS SCHOOL TOMORROW,HE,S 4 IT COST ME 75 EURO.HOW MANY BOOKS CAN A 4 YEAR OLD NEED,HE CANT READ YET:o

The 75 euros may not just be for books.
I know a portion of what I paid to the school was for arts and crafts materials and a public lilability insurance policy for my child incase they fall and hurt themsleves not running in the yard :rolleyes: cos running is against the rules.

eimearnll

you could be right,i went to a meeting in the school before the holidays the problem was its a irish school.had'nt a clue what they were saying.most of the parents (or pretty much all of them) can speak irish so i was a bit shy in standing up and asking questions in english i have put myself down for a couple of courses now though.

deisemum

My boys have just gone into 5th and 3rd class and most of the books that my eldest had cannot be passed on to the younger lad because the school either change which books they'll use or more commonly every year there's a new version where a couple of words may have changed. They have books for all subjects and matching workbooks. They've about 3 or 4 maths books each. I weighed my 10 year olds school bag and it weighed 2st 3lbs which I found very heavy then add lunch and drinks, sports gear (a couple of days a week when they have hurling) and sometimes projects.

They go on the school bus but sometimes I've to drive them to or from the bus stop because the bags are so heavy. My 8 year old's bag is nearly as heavy as his older brother's. Teachers don't give a damn and those with children of their own drive up to the school car park so their children don't have to struggle with bags especially when mammy or daddy carry it for them. It's a regular complaint to the school but nothing gets done.

My 10 year old is waiting for an orthopedic appointment at our local hospital, is it any wonder?

There was someone on the radio in the last couple of days who can't understand why the majority of school books haven't been replaced by CDs. It would certainly be much lighter to carry. The only reason he could think of is that the government are afraid to take on the publishers.


The price of school books goes right up from 3rd class, I don't even want to think of secondary yet.

Trinity

My 6 year old started 1st class yesterday.

Books cost 77.00 Euro

I also Had to give the school 67 euro yesterday for various supplies (art/paper etc)

i had to then supply all his own copies and notebooks. 12 in total

Not to mention the uniform.

The school jumper costs 30 euro with the school crest and the tracksuit can only be bought in arnotts at a cost of 37 euro.

Also school bag, pencils, crayons, shirts, ties, shoes, trousers, lunch box etc, socks.

i estimate 400 euro on a 6 year old.

Nevyn

Got the books lists this morning.
85 euro for the 6 year old in 1st class, this incldes arts and craft and insurance.
120 for the 8 year old in 3rd class and this does not include copies.
It also included 4.31 for the school report forum!!!
We had to pay for the report form and for it to be posted home at the end of term. :mad:

brown*eyed*girl

mike65 wrote:

In my day it was simple (and simpler times) the school owned the books and they were passed through the years until they collapsed! And we had desks and lockers so we did'nt haul a sack load around.

Mike.

Thankfully my daughter's secondary school does this. I had to pay €60 last year and €20 this year for the rental scheme. Locker hire is only €30 for the whole year. I'm so lucky as my mates son's school doens't do the rental scheme and she paid a lot more than me this year. The rental scheme should be in every school as it really makes sense and brilliant for the parents as its expensive enough getting the uniforms, school bags, pencil cases, copies etc.

fobs

My daghter started school this year and her books cost 38 euro plus 30 euro to the school. My niece started in a rural school a few miles away and has 5 more books than my niece so seems there is no co-ordinated book list for kids across schools.

Kimbot

Sorry if I seem to be going off topic a little!! My son is in his second year of school!! On his booklist there was a little disclaimer on it saying "Small fee" for paper and paints etc... now that fee was nearly 45 quid!! Then there is insurance!!! Insurance??? Why do they suddenly have to pay this??

fobs

i think the insurance they have to pays relates to the out of school hours insurance so that your child is covered if you are late picking them up for example. I think a lot of our schools are so badly funded if they didn't get the contributions from parents towards photocopying etc... they would be in dire straits.

Nevyn

Personal injury insurance is what I was told my the school my children attend.
To cover what ever medical costs that the school maybe sued for in case of an accident.

The Dept of Education on pays the teachers' salaries, the admin salaries, the running costs of the the school heat and lighting ect and some monies towards
maintence and some towards the office supplies needed.

This is the same for every school reguardless of patron, in many places the local parish pays a small fee per child to the school out of the share collection as well.

I know last year that my childrens school had to have a fun raiser for money for more oil for the school heating as the school's budget had been set for the year and then the fuel prices increased.

There is the same issue with bin charges, so much so children are told to bring thier lunch rubbish home in thier bags to cut down on the cost to the school of disposing it.

There is increasings shortfalls and we are parents are being asking to make up the difference with things on the book list like the fee for arts and crafts
and this year on my childrens book list fees for photocopying and laminating.

Kimbot

Thaedydal wrote:

fees for photocopying and laminating.

Oh I got that aswell!!

Hugh_C

mike65 wrote:

Excuse my ignorance but what is it with this country and the need to buy new schools books every year? Do pulpils have a mass burning in June? Are they all pulped and recycled or are they bought as the "old" ones are instantly out of date come the summer hollidays?

Is it a racket to keep Gill and MacMillan in clover?

Mike.

The place in Dundrum (not much use to you in Waterford now but for future reference) sells good 2nd hand where possible if you ask them, oh and free covering.

Nevyn

Well there is a difference between the over heads for the school and the cost of running the school

hazeler

People are always giving out about education!! I work in a school as an SNA and have a daughter in Senior Infants and I also have to pay for CHANGE!!! Im not saying I like have to fork out silly amounts for books but if the same books were passed on year after year the curriculum would be so out of date that our kids would know nothing relevant to their world today. Parents would give out about that too... Education is not free in this country, it has never been! If the shambles that we call a government prioritised a little and spent money in the places that needed it, it could help the parents of school going kids. Here's a little tip to save some money for next yr www.schoolbooks.ie saved me €38 on books for Seniors and they'll cover the books for €1.10 each too!!Delivered in 3 days!

killbillvol2

jonny24ie wrote:

Then there is insurance!!! Insurance??? Why do they suddenly have to pay this??

Would you prefer to send your child into a building which wasn't covered by insurance?

deisemum

The Pupil Personal Accident Insurance has the option of school activities only which costs €5 per year or 24 hour cover including social, domestic and leisure as well as school activities is €8 per year.

It's all very well having to pay for CHANGE but why should it CHANGE every year and make it impossible to pass on the school books to siblings. When the new curriculum was introduced the year my eldest started school back in 2000 we were told the curriculum changes every 8 - 10 years (which is fair enough), that books could be passed on to siblings yet in reality that's not happening and it's only the odd book usually Alive O that can be passed on. At the end of the school year you're left with the books and you can't use them or pass them on to anyone because there's a new list for the younger sibling.

Different schools use different books for the same year. I'm a childminder and look after children that go to 4 different schools from my own and they've got different books from each other.

A lot of people have had problems ordering school books from the website mentioned this summer. Having placed orders in July the books didn't arrive in time and the company wouldn't answer their phone. The only efficient thing they did was take payment

oRlyYaRly

They don't charge enough in these schools. I said it before and I'll say it again, TEACHER'S NEED MORE MONEY.

Teaching is probably the most difficult job in the goddam universe. Imagine trying to teach someone who not only doesn't want to learn, but actively tries to disrupt the teaching of the students who are in school to get an education and not just be a waste of recources.

deisemum

It's parents that are paying for school books and uniforms etc not the teachers. Teachers wages are a separate issue from the costs involved in sending children to school.

GAA widow

i'm a primary school teacher and every year each class sells on the reusable books to incoming pupils - a good service. the irony is that only about a quarter of incoming pupil's parents will buy secondhand books (in excellent condition i might add). i don't get it. maybe it has to do with parents wanting their kids to get "the best" all the time?

BTW the State issues 10 euro per child for books at primary school level - in some schools where the teachers buy the books for the kids they'll deduct 10 euro off the total price. Generally the 10 euro allowance will go towards new school library books for the class/school.

Nevyn

Well I was confering with another Mammy who has children in the same years as mine in primary school and the difference was something else.
Yes the school is smaller and in Cavan but she was charged 50 euros per child for thier books a grand total of 100euros for 1st class and 3rd class compared to myself having to pay over 200 euros.

deisemum

GAA widow wrote:

i'm a primary school teacher and every year each class sells on the reusable books to incoming pupils - a good service. the irony is that only about a quarter of incoming pupil's parents will buy secondhand books (in excellent condition i might add). i don't get it. maybe it has to do with parents wanting their kids to get "the best" all the time?

We don't even get that option in my sons school. I can't even pass on most of my older son's books to his younger brother because the school changes the books most years. God only knows how many books are in homes that won't be used again.

darkflower

deisemum wrote:

We don't even get that option in my sons school. I can't even pass on most of my older son's books to his younger brother because the school changes the books most years. God only knows how many books are in homes that won't be used again.

i agree! in my case, the school would use the same textbook only it is marked new edition. but you'd notice that the new edition is much like the old.:mad:

dhidra

deisemum wrote:

I weighed my 10 year olds school bag and it weighed 2st 3lbs which I found very heavy then add lunch and drinks, sports gear (a couple of days a week when they have hurling) and sometimes projects.

They go on the school bus but sometimes I've to drive them to or from the bus stop because the bags are so heavy. My 8 year old's bag is nearly as heavy as his older brother's. Teachers don't give a damn and those with children of their own drive up to the school car park so their children don't have to struggle with bags especially when mammy or daddy carry it for them. It's a regular complaint to the school but nothing gets done.

My 10 year old is waiting for an orthopedic appointment at our local hospital, is it any wonder?

Children often bring home books that aren't needed for homework. Help your child to become more organised so that he sorts out what books are needed at 3 o'clock for homework and brings home only those. tell him to take out all his books in his bag when he arrives at school in the morning so that unnecessary ones aren't brought home.

GAA widow wrote:

i'm a primary school teacher and every year each class sells on the reusable books to incoming pupils - a good service. the irony is that only about a quarter of incoming pupil's parents will buy secondhand books (in excellent condition i might add). i don't get it. maybe it has to do with parents wanting their kids to get "the best" all the time?

i found this as well. it's bizarre!

deisemum wrote:

It's parents that are paying for school books and uniforms etc not the teachers. Teachers wages are a separate issue from the costs involved in sending children to school.

Guess what? Teacher actually DO spend their OWN money on your child's art and project supplies, as the moey given by parents usually run out. they are also constantly buying resource books, CDs etc. all to benefit YOUR child.

deisemum wrote:

the school changes the books most years

i agree that this is an awful pain, however the teachers are usually trying to find the best textbook that is available and suitable to the needs of the children. theis can take a lot of trail and error.

just a note about workbooks too, they do save a lot of time for the children themselves, rather than writing things out in copies (this always takes longer!), they get to spend the time doing more meaningful activities.

sorry if i seem a bit angry here! i don't mean to be! im just trying to offer an alternative opinion.

deisemum

dhidra wrote:

Children often bring home books that aren't needed for homework. Help your child to become more organised so that he sorts out what books are needed at 3 o'clock for homework and brings home only those. tell him to take out all his books in his bag when he arrives at school in the morning so that unnecessary ones aren't brought home.

I've been doing this for years but to be honest he does bring home most of the books and they are needed for his homework. He gets quiet a bit of homework.



Guess what? Teacher actually DO spend their OWN money on your child's art and project supplies, as the moey given by parents usually run out. they are also constantly buying resource books, CDs etc. all to benefit YOUR child.

Fortunately in my childrens school the teachers don't have to put any of their money into their pupils art supplies or anything else for that matter and I think it's wrong to expect them to. Our school seems to very well off compared to others in the area and the principal doesn't like fundraising yet we seem to have great facilities. All we have to pay is €7.50 per child per year for photocoping and arts materials and only have a christmas raffle to buy spare books for the library.

The school must be getting money from somewhere. Makes me wonder if that's why the principal accepts GPs and consultants children from outside the parish yet those near the school can't get in. I know other schools in the area are amazed with the facilities in our school and the fact that we have several "spare" teachers for the number of children enrolled who help out other teachers. That's great for our children. The school has it's own computer lab so each child has their own computer for their IT class, library, the only autistic unit in both the city and county at primary level.

i agree that this is an awful pain, however the teachers are usually trying to find the best textbook that is available and suitable to the needs of the children. theis can take a lot of trail and error.

just a note about workbooks too, they do save a lot of time for the children themselves, rather than writing things out in copies (this always takes longer!), they get to spend the time doing more meaningful activities.

I've no problem with workbooks except when a teacher wont let them write in the maths one and they have to write it out in their copy.


I wish I could buy second hand books but a lot of my older boy's books cannot even be passed on to his younger brother apart from Alive O. I just hate the idea of so much waste. I wouldn't mind if there was some way the books could be donated so they'd be of benefit to someone else even if it wasn't for a school.

Just a bargain alert, Roches Stores/Debenhams are selling school bags at half price. I got 2 today.

dhidra

deisemum wrote:

Fortunately in my childrens school the teachers don't have to put any of their money into their pupils art supplies or anything else for that matter and I think it's wrong to expect them to.

are you sure about that? i'd say all of the parents of the children in my class (i'm a teacher in case yyou didn't notice! ) would say the same, even though I do spend my own money (and lots of it).

deisemum wrote:

I wish I could buy second hand books but a lot of my older boy's books cannot even be passed on to his younger brother apart from Alive O. I just hate the idea of so much waste. I wouldn't mind if there was some way the books could be donated so they'd be of benefit to someone else even if it wasn't for a school.

that's a brilliant idea. i'm sure there's lots of families and schools that would be delighted to be involved in something like that. how about you set it up?

deisemum

Yes I'm sure of it, having been on the parents association for a number of years, the different teacher reps said the school had plenty of funds for a whole list of things including art and craft materials. The school has different accounts for different purposes and have more than sufficient funds. The school must be getting generous donations from somewhere.

It's very wrong if teachers are using their own money for materials.

The only thing some teachers did with their own property was bring in a portable tv on days they had half days for end of term, half term etc and when some of us on the parents association saw them struggling up to the school carrying in their own tvs we organised a one off quiz (apart from the one for the special olympics) and were able to buy a number of tv's and trolleys for the school.

I wouldn't mind getting involved in something that could recycle the books but due to other genuine commitments and not excuses I don't have the time at the moment. I think I'll phone my local adult education centre that have schemes for adult illiteracy since apparently 24% of adults are illiterate. They may have use for some of them. At least it would be a start and then when some of my commitments ease up I may have more time to see about doing a bit more.

I couldn't see the majority of parents at our school wanting to buy second hand books so maybe finding another use for them may be a better option.

I nearly got my head bitten of at a parents association meeting when as a parent's rep for one of my son's class, I mentioned (on behalf of another parent) that as the curriculum had been finished by easter as the teacher was going off on parental leave and the replacement teacher sent a note home with all the class to have a certain book by next morning so they'd have something to work with.

A few parents were annoyed with the short notice and also having to buy another book. When I asked (on behalf of the other parent) why couldn't the teacher just make a phone call to the local library who had 33 of them in the teachers resource section and that the library would have delivered them. Jeez a few of the well off do gooders went to town about what sort of parent would deprive their child of material that would benefit them. No second hand books for them. Thing is they'd still have the material but could have it from the library.

Blush_01

God, it sounds like things have changed dramatically in the past few years. In primary school we always had a book rental scheme, it was IR£5 for the year. Our uniform was a grey trousers for the boys and skirt/pinny for the girls, white shirt, red elasticated tie and navy jumper. You could get them in whatever shop you liked. No specific tracksuits were needed.

Starting secondary school, the locker scheme they put into place had a special offer - if you hired a locker for the 5/6 years you were going to be in the school it would cost you IR£25 for the duration of your time. The uniforms were ferociously expensive, but apart from shirts (Dunnes jobbie again) I only ever needed one skirt and two jumpers in my entire time in secondary school. Not bad for 6 years. Books are and always have been different from school to school, but we got books from cousins and my parent's friends who had finished school. English was the only thing that changed on an annual basis, and when I was doing my leaving a book was released that covered either 4 or 6 years, so it could be passed on. The CD that came with it wasn't a required element of the course, it was just a perk of some sort. My sister's doing her leaving this year and she had to buy two new books, a few shirts and socks going back to school. If the whole thing came to €100 I'd be very surprised.

It really is madness.

TempestSabre

My secondary had a 2nd hand book store in the school. 2nd hand books can be very handy often they have other students notes on them.