02 to roll out 3.6Mbps HSPA broadband product by year end

damien

O2 Ireland to invest EUR250m in next generation network

Investment to pave the way for O2 broadband at home and on the move

* EUR250 million investment over the next 18 months
* O2 broadband to deliver peak rate speeds from 3.6 up to 14.4 megabits per second
* Ireland Inc. to benefit from O2 broadband push
* O2 committed to continued investment in Irish telecoms market


Monday 28th August 2006. O2 Ireland today announced that it is investing
EUR250 million over the next 18 months to provide a next generation mobile
network in Ireland.

In addition to delivering higher quality voice and data services, O2's next generation network will pave the way for broadband services over the mobile network with bandwidth that will both match and exceed those currently available in the Irish market from fixed line and wireless operators. By the end of this year O2's network will support broadband for over 60% of consumers nationwide and by the end of 2007 this will increase to 80%. This will make broadband available to many consumers who currently cannot avail of broadband via DSL or over fixed wireless*.


Broadband over O2's next generation network will support peak rate download speeds starting at 3.6 Megabits per second by December 2006, rising to 14.4 by end 2007. O2 will offer significantly higher upload speeds than the current broadband offering in the market, starting at 1.5 megabits per second in January 2007 and rising to over 5 megabits by the end of that year (the highest upload speed currently available with standard DSL packages is 512k).

The new network will incorporate the latest HSPA technology (high speed packet access) which will position O2 Ireland ahead of its competitors in providing advanced high bandwidth broadband services over the mobile network, which customers can use at home and/or on the move. The contract to build O2's next generation network has been awarded to Ericsson Ireland.

O2 will trial the new technology over the coming months and will announce pricing and product details shortly afterwards.

Commenting on the benefits which O2 Ireland's customers will derive from the major investment programme, Chief Technology Officer, Oliver Coughlan said:

"This new investment will allow our customers to enjoy broadband services at home and/or on the move at unprecedented speeds, while also allowing us to rapidly develop new and competitive services to meet Ireland's increasinglysophisticated mobile communications requirements.

Our new network will deliver feature-rich services at speeds that are far in advance of any current broadband offering in the Irish market, mobile or
fixed.

Sponge Bob

Hopefully o2 are looking at the success of the recent Voda rollout and are seeking to match or better it.

Their approach to data services on the move has always been utterly pathetic in the past , I remember when Voda supported HSCSD first (allowing up to 43k dialup by bonding 3 x 14.4k slots ) while O2 never did and were curmudgeonly about widening their single slot from 9.6k to 14.4k , which took months and months.

I must confess that I have been very impressed with Voda this year and have sent lots of bizniss their way since June . If O2 want to impress this sponge they will have to

1. Improve their 3G coverage (its behind Vodas)
2. Improve their fallback options...when you are out of 3G coverage
3. Offer a higher port size than Voda from day one.
4. Price properly. Their best offer now is €130 a month for what Voda charges €49 a month for.

Frankly they will have to beat Voda hands down on performance and/or price before I will even think of recommending them , a long memory and all that ...what what! . They will not do it on price so what will we get for our €49 a month one wonders ?

uncle_sam_ie

What does O2 or Vodafone need to do to the cell sites around Ireland to make HSDPA happen? Is it a full hardware upgrade or just a firmware upgrade and what would the cost be for each site? Would it be economically possible to have 100pc coverage?

Blaster99

Don't know, but the problem is more to do with 3G and contention. 3G requires a lot more masts and I suspect a data network requires a different design than a voice network if you're going to support lots of data users reliably.

jesus_thats_gre

uncle_sam_ie wrote:

What does O2 or Vodafone need to do to the cell sites around Ireland to make HSDPA happen? Is it a full hardware upgrade or just a firmware upgrade and what would the cost be for each site? Would it be economically possible to have 100pc coverage?

I could be very wrong as I am basing this on a very very patchy memory but.. AFAIK, the vast majority of existing 3G sites just need to be upgraded to support HSDPA so 100% coverage within 3G areas is likely. Again, as I said, very hazzy memory.

jesus_thats_gre

Sponge Bob wrote:

Their approach to data services on the move has always been utterly pathetic in the past , I remember when Voda supported HSCSD first (allowing up to 43k dialup by bonding 3 x 14.4k slots ) while O2 never did and were curmudgeonly about widening their single slot from 9.6k to 14.4k , which took months and months.

In fairness to O2 though, Eircell used to be incredibly quick at rolling out new technologies back then. I think they were one of the the first in Europe to roll out a prepaid server, first to roll out HSCSD, first to roll our a prepaid GPRS service and 1 or 2 more techs I think.


Also as a side note, I know everyone is very sceptical about the speeds that O2 are claiming but from what I have heard, it is not that far fetched.

jesus_thats_gre

Blaster99 wrote:

Don't know, but the problem is more to do with 3G and contention. 3G requires a lot more masts and I suspect a data network requires a different design than a voice network if you're going to support lots of data users reliably.

Hmmm the changes to the network have been taking place for about 2/3 years now.. AFAIK, most of the migration is complete. The backhaul is also in place. However, you are right about the number of cells, they need to be deploid more densely.

triple-play

Sponge Bob wrote:

4. Price properly. Their best offer now is €130 a month for what Voda charges €49 a month for.

O2 launched a new price for flat rate data usage on their 3G card last month. It comes in at €40 plus VAT (€48.40) per month -around the same as Vodafones but I think O2 have a better deal on the card itself.

HSDPA looks interesting. Anything that helps me to get rid of my landline rental and still get proper broadband can't be bad!

cgarvey

It's 40.49 + 21% VAT = 48.99.

EDIT: Scrap that, I missed the start of your sentence, sorry.
EDIT2: Fix awful spelling!

.cg

Sponge Bob

triple-play wrote:

O2 launched a new price for flat rate data usage on their 3G card last month. It comes in at €40 plus VAT (€48.40) per month -around the same as Vodafones but I think O2 have a better deal on the card itself.

Here is my O2 link to prove its €129 like I said , now where is your link ???

I never heard of this 3G package and never saw it discussed.

Urban Weigl

O2 are offering it, but basically only if you ask for it. Perhaps in response to Vodafone's offer, so they don't lose business customers? I called to confirm, and the lady told me that "we haven't had time to update our web site or anything yet". That was a few weeks ago... Maybe they're looking for a web designer? Or they're busy sorting out all the problems with their new site. Either way, the only way to "find out" about this product is to call them and specifically ask for it. They might also have a brochure, though if they do, I've been unable to source it. When you call, if at first you are told no such product exists, insist that it does! After a brief chat with a supervisor, it will exist.

Is this what's called a "soft launch"?

watty

Sponge Bob wrote:

Here is my O2 link to prove its €129 like I said , now where is your link ???

I never heard of this 3G package and never saw it discussed.

Obviously it is secret to as to avoid overloading the network

Urban Weigl

Here's the "official" press release (link below). I thought it made interesting reading.

http://www.ericsson.com/ericsson/press/releases/20060830-1072205.shtml

Sponge Bob

VERY !

On average, users will be able to download four times faster than with current 3G connections using existing PC cards, and 20 times faster than with a GSM/GPRS connection.

So after banging on about 3.6mbits and 14.4Mbits at one point the actual average speed for this will be 1.2mbits (4 x 300kbits or 20 x 30kbits) and maybe as little as 800kbits on average. And thats from Ericcson who make the tech.

Now if Digiweb could shrink their Metro CPE onto a natty little card there would be fun there would indeed

O2s 3G coverage is significantly more miserable and big city only than that of Voda .

oscarBravo

Sponge Bob wrote:

Now if Digiweb could shrink their Metro CPE onto a natty little card there would be fun there would indeed

At 10.5GHz? A PC card that requires clear LOS to the base station at all times. Hmm...

cgarvey

Seeing is believing. (the o2 service, not the 10.GHz PC Card!!)

Sponge Bob

oscarBravo wrote:

At 10.5GHz? A PC card that requires clear LOS to the base station at all times. Hmm...

Did I mention shrinking the antenna ?

watty

Sponge Bob wrote:

Did I mention shrinking the antenna ?

Kentucky Microwaved Pigeon?


Well you can get a PCI card for the coax that comes from the 10.5GHz set, in theory*, but that is no advantage. I think the 10.5Ghz is best left on the Chimney. My Metro modem is connected to my WiFi NAT/Router/ 4port switch so the Laptop does indeed run with internal card, even in the garden.


(* If you find someone that actually stocks this piece of Zoom magic, let me know! Also it won't work unless you get Digiweb to agree to use it instead of the supplioed modem, which I suspect is unlikely unless they decide it would be a good idea for lots of people.)

triple-play

Sponge Bob wrote:

Here is my O2 link to prove its €129 like I said , now where is your link ???

I never heard of this 3G package and never saw it discussed.

here you go Sponge Bob. A link to 'prove' the offer exists. This was in the latest edition of mobilise which I received via email from O2 today.

[.cg snipped]

cgarvey

I've removed the link, as it contained personal subscription information that is not intended to be shared. As we know, the offer is genuine, and I'll vouch for triple-play's proof!

govinda

O2 have updated their site now, but its not looking like a good offer at all! The 40EUR charge is good for only 2GB of data, hardly competitive alongside the Vodafone offer (and I'm an ex-Voda, current o2 customer who promised never to go back to Vodafone!)

Details:
http://www.o2online.ie/wps/wcm/connect/O2/Home/Business/Phones/Devices+%26+accessories/Mobile+data+cards/3G+data+card+tariffs

Urban Weigl

So O2 don't have a real "Data Unlimited" competitor after all, like the lady I talked to thought (she insisted it was unlimited and there were no extra charges for going over any "limits"), and now it turns out it's 2GB for €48.40 + €0.91 per megabyte after that. In other words, 5GB will set you back a bank-breaking €2843.92.

Oh, and to top it off, they have feck all coverage compared to Vodafone.

Someone else on Boards, forget who, was also tricked into believing O2 had an unlimited data plan. I'm sticking with Vodafone, but hope O2 come out with something better soon, and that this is simply a stop-gap measure to prevent them losing business customers to Vodafone until they put HSDPA and their new network in place.

By the way, Vodafone's "Business Works" plan is another example of Vodafone offering a competitive product. Unlimited free Vodafone-to-Vodafone calls + 400 minutes to landlines/O2/Meteor/3 + 50MB data + push email on a Nokia E61 for €79 a month. I can see that working very well for the small business owner, especially in combination with Passport, where you pay very low roaming charges (significantly cheaper than anything O2 offer).

O2 have still got the best pricing on pre-pay, though, not to mention that "Business Unlimited" is a good plan if you make a lot of calls within the network.

Sponge Bob

Look at the prices if you bust the 2Gb cap its €0.75c + VAT per Megabyte.

once the 2GB reached, a charge of €0.75 will apply for each additional MB downloaded.

:eek: Thats €907 a Gb :eek:

I wont be recommending them until they cop themselves on.

cgarvey

Lest it get lost by implication, Vodafone don't have anything approaching an unlimited offering either, although it is vastly cheaper than o2. When launched first, their AUP mentioned 5GB/mo limit, but they've since modified it to remove any specific limit and now leave it at their total discretion.

So whether o2 or Vodafone is cheaper (both have the same excess charges for going lots of MBs over) is down to how they enforce their AUPs.

.cg

Urban Weigl

So you think that Vodafone will charge for going over a limit that they don't even publish? I somehow very seriously doubt it. As it stands, with Vodafone you know you're paying €49 a month. With O2, only God knows how high your next bill will be.

cgarvey

Actually I don't think either will charge, without prior warning (in which case, it's likely they'll want rid of you rather than you paying more). However, they both retain the right to charge you more or kick you off, so idle speculation as to what they will actually do is pointless, and it's certainly pointless trying to point the finger at o2 over Vodafone when neither have any history with this type of product.

Urban Weigl

cgarvey, I'll give you the benefit of of the doubt and assumed you have inside information that you're not revealing, but here are the facts on the ground:

O2 say: "Please note, once the 2GB reached, a charge of €0.75 will apply for each additional MB downloaded."

Vodafone specifically say that they won't just start billing you extra, but if your usage causes issues for other customers, they reserve the right to contact you and advice you to moderate your usage. If you continue, after they have contacted you, only at that point do they reserve the right to charge extra or discontinue the service to you. I'll even provide a link: http://www.vodafone.ie/terms/paymonthly/index.jsp#unlimiteddata

Give me a good reason why I shouldn't believe what O2 says on their web site?

On the other hand, maybe I shouldn't give you the benefit of the doubt after all, and just assume you're spouting off without having done any research. You certainly have not given anybody a reason to believe otherwise.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am not affiliated with Vodafone, nor have I ever been. Further, I think their pre-pay offer is horrendous. Highest call charges, and no way to see a list of calls.

Sponge Bob

that was my reading too, Voda do not have a nasty sting in their tail.

cgarvey

Urban Weigl wrote:

On the other hand, maybe I shouldn't give you the benefit of the doubt after all, and just assume you're spouting off without having done any research. You certainly have not given anybody a reason to believe otherwise.

I've read the same Terms & Conditions that you have, so our level of research seems to be similar. I'm saying that both reserve the right to charge you excess, and until we actually see who does what, the attack on o2 is unjustified / speculation. You seem to be reading into Vodafones removal of the 5GB as being a good thing, I see it as a bad thing (and I think they removed it because they got a lot more customers than they were expecting.. despite the "lack of broadband demand").

I'll grant you that o2 have worded it a lot more definitely than Vodafone, but I see that as being a positive thing. I certainly won't be trying to download 2GB with Vodafone now (unless I want out of the contract!). With o2 you know where you stand. With Vodafone, they change the goalposts. I don't think either will start charging point blank without testing the waters, but I don't know. Until I have "researched" it more (i.e. see how they do handle multi-GB users), I won't be saying one is better than the other.

Urban Weigl

Does anybody have any info about possible pricing or packages yet?

Tubbritt

I certainly won't be trying to download 2GB with Vodafone now (unless I want out of the contract!).

For what it’s worth, I downloaded 2.6GB last month, and I’m on target to do the same this month too.

My friend downloaded just over 3GB last month, and I have no idea what he’s running at now. Knowing him, he’s probably going take it that 5GB is the mark not to cross.

I tend to agree. 5GB is fair.

Kind Regards.
James.