Self Publishing

FINN1

Hi All,
I was wondering if anyone has considered self-publishing and, if so, what they consider to be the pros and cons of going down this route?
Also, does anyone have any experience of print-on-demand publishing houses?
I came across a website, www.authorhouse.co.uk, which outlines the process.


Thanks

itsAboy

http://www.lulu.com

looksee

Hi Finn1,
Self publishing is also called vanity publishing. It is well named if you think about it. Any printer will take your money and your manuscript and turn it into a book for you. The catch is what you do next. You have a stack of books, you sell a few to your family and friends. You go into your local book shops and they either turn you down or say they will take a few 'sale or return' (your risk - if they are thieved or damaged its your problem). Beyond your local town, if you can afford to travel around the country, the best you will get is sale or return. Some of the self publishing companies may make vague promises about distributing your book, but they have made their money when they send you the samples, don't hold your breath!

The only exception to this is if you are an authority or expert producing (say) a local history or local interest book or a book of very specific interest to a particular group with whom you have extensive contacts. And if this is the case and is what you want to do, a local printer would produce and print a book for you, and you would have more control over the process. You would still have to distribute it though.

FINN1

Thanks for the words of warning - much appreciated!

arynne

I have a finished novel rejected now by three Irish publishers -- Penguin, New Island and Currach. And yet they all said it was a great story. Irish publishers are afraid of new novelists. I'm getting a bit dishartened and tempted to go the Lulu route. But am I right in thinking that self-publishers are a bit pathetic and that real writers would never do this? I'd like to hear other's opinions. Thanks.

AR

Antilles

arynne wrote: »

I have a finished novel rejected now by three Irish publishers -- Penguin, New Island and Currach. And yet they all said it was a great story. Irish publishers are afraid of new novelists. I'm getting a bit dishartened and tempted to go the Lulu route. But am I right in thinking that self-publishers are a bit pathetic and that real writers would never do this? I'd like to hear other's opinions.

Hi OP, don't give up! Listen to the rejections you have got. If the publication houses said it was a great story, then even allowing for politeness, it can't be half bad. According to (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/12/60minutes/main558428.shtml), 4 or 5 publishers rejected JK Rowling before one finally accepted Harry Potter, and look how well that's regarded now. If I were you I'd keep on trying that route.

Going to a place like Lulu would be a last resort for me. Some authors can go this route successfully - Wil Wheaton self publishes and has had a lot of success, but the vast majority of those using these services are people who can't write well enough to sell their book, and just want to see their name on a book on a shelf.

Madou

Jeez, the whole "Rowling got refused, don't get disheartened" thing is getting old (sorry Antilles) - but yeah, it tells a story in itself.

Arynne, if what you've written is of worth, it'll be seen asuch, one day...:o Just keep writing, stay creative, and keep throwing things at publishers.

Self publishing = dodge IMO

arynne

Yes people. Thanks very much for wake up call. You are right, I'll keep going. By the way the people at www.writersworkshop.co.uk I have found are very helpful and genuine. Thanks again.

A.

Montallie

Self-Publishing is not the same as Vanity Publishing at all. Those who self-publish may do it partly out of vanity, but POD companies do not prey on their vanity the way so-called Vanity Publishers do.

Most self-publishers do so not out of vanity but because they have written a book they want others to see: they have a genuine desire to share a message, to impart information, or to tell a story. But agents and editors are so inundated nowadays with books that they can only examine a tiny proportion of these, and an even smaller proportion of these is published by traditional publishers. Self-publishing provides a way out of this cul-de-sac.

There is no reason that a self-publisher can't make a success of his/her venture if the following steps are taken:

Be a reader - all the best writers are voracious readers.

If your book is nonfiction, make it as clearly-written and easy to navigate as possible. Use inviting chapter headings that show the reader the value of what you are offering.

If your book is fiction, make the start as interesting as possible, fill the middle with well-wrought, likeable characters who have certain rising obstacles to overcome before the climax in which their various dilemmas are resolved one way or another (not necessarily completely happily), finish each chapter with a hook (think those old black-and-white serial movies), and provide a satisfying, memorable ending to round off the story.

Read up as much as possible on self-publishing. Two excellent books to start with are: What do I have to do to get a book published! by Jo Anthony (with a comprehensive round-up of the various reputable POD companies), but there are many more, as well as articles and columns on self-publishing in writers' magazines and an immensely helpful self-publishing Yahoo group you can join - (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Self-Publishing/)

Test your embryonic story/narrative out on as many different people as possible (market research), pay attention to what you are told by them and fix any problems they have pointed out.

Make your book as error-free as possible in all aspects - grammar, spelling, typing, etc.

Get the text laid out by a professional, unless you have real skills in this area (the cost is not as much as you may have been led to believe).

If you need pictures (i.e., for a children's story), try to get this done professionally also - there are many graphic artists who will work for a very reasonable cost.

Have at least three competent (regular readers who can spell and recognise grammatical and other text errors) people do a final edit of your book before you get it printed.

The real work comes with the marketing, but all first-time authors have to do a certain amount of marketing, anyway, even if traditionally-published. Once again, the self-publishing books are founts of information on this aspect of the enterprise.

Arrange to have your book printed by a POD (print-on-demand) house after thoroughly checking out the virtues and drawbacks of each one, or arrange to set up as a small press yourself, buying your own ISBN numbers and getting quotations from small-run printers.

Some of the advantages of self-publishing over being traditionally published are:

You have complete control over your own product - design, illustrations, cover, time-frame, etc.

You can sell it for as long as you like (traditional publishing houses backlist after one or two seasons)

If the book is a goer, much more of the sales' money will be yours than would be the case if published by someone else

Antilles

Madou wrote: »

Jeez, the whole "Rowling got refused, don't get disheartened" thing is getting old (sorry Antilles) - but yeah, it tells a story in itself.

No problem, Madou. I was just told about Rowling a little while back so its still fresh in my mind. I'm sure there are hundreds of successful authors with similar stories, I'm just unaware of them

Glad to hear you're not giving up, OP.

MikeC101

As far as I'm aware Authorhouse a scam outfit along the lines of PublishAmerica - run, run, run away! Vanity publishing at it's worst.

Fatboydim

The cons I would say are that no one really takes self publishers that seriously. There are exceptions I'm sure. Sometimes if you are writing for a particular market - New Age - as an example - It might not matter.

Publishers themselves take a risk every time they commit to an author. Tey usually have all the marketing and distribution sorted out, but that still may not make the book sell well. these are the people you will be competing against with your limited knowledge and resources.

If you spend a considerable amount of time and money on your book and it's all for very little reward, would that bother you?

If the answer is no then maybe self publishing is for you.

However if the book is good enough to be published then have faith in it and continue to try for representation and publishing.

Livvie

arynne wrote: »

I have a finished novel rejected now by three Irish publishers -- Penguin, New Island and Currach. And yet they all said it was a great story. Irish publishers are afraid of new novelists. I'm getting a bit dishartened and tempted to go the Lulu route. But am I right in thinking that self-publishers are a bit pathetic and that real writers would never do this? I'd like to hear other's opinions. Thanks.

AR

Congratulations on getting rejection slips that complimented your story...that would inspire me to try other publishers. Maybe from the UK, or even America?

Did they give any reason as to why it was rejected? Maybe it was too long, or too short?

Don't give up.

arynne

Thanks Livvie for encurraging words. Yes, my dialogue was not good but I have fixt it to a great extent. Have now decided, as a final push, to send it to Writers Workshop.co.uk for Publishing Review. This will cost 450 euro but I think it will be worth it. Lets see.
A

Frankiestylee

I would look at self publishing as a last resort, yet to some degree my band has done it with music and it has been successful, so, I don't know why I've drawn such a line in my head.
I guess it's not really the publishing itself but the distribution, advertising etc required. A band can play a gig, a writer can't easily have the same effect with a reading.

Livvie

Most new authors are advised to find an agent rather than go directly to a publisher.

Frankiestylee

Some sage advice, I think it was from Neil Gaiman's blog, went a bit like "any agent that takes you on without a publisher is not the type of agent you need". Believe the man himself didn't bother with an agent til 5 or 7 books down the line.

MrPirate

OP and other writers, a friend of mine gave me a link that I found very very useful! http://www.blurb.com/
Basically, you download their program, you select what kind of book you want (size, etc) and then you can import/write the story/book itself into the size and type of book that you want. Once you have that done, you send the file to the publisher people, and they send you copies of the book. The different sizes cost different amounts, but the glory of it all is you still own all rights of your book. And then you can sell your books on through bookshops, etc. I intend to use it for what I'm currently writing atm.
Hope that helped!

Fatboydim

arynne wrote: »

But am I right in thinking that self-publishers are a bit pathetic and that real writers would never do this?

AR

Yes you are right.

bigmoma22

Has anyone in Ireland tried to self publish a book? Would love to know more about it...

pickarooney

No experience of it myself, but there were a few discussions on it previously.
Here
Here
Here

Mostly negative responses from what I can see.

EileenG

The teacher on my UCD writing course has just self-published her eighth book, after using commercial publishers for the other seven. She said she has already make a much bigger profit on this one. BUT, she's had to devote the last 18 months to getting it professionally edited, properly typeset, cover design, getting independent reviews, printing, warehousing, distribution, getting it into major book chains and onto websites like Amazon and Bookdepository. In spite of the higher profit, she said she would not do it again.

A woman in the class had self published a novel and brought it in to show us. It was terrible. The typesetting was all over the place, with punctuation marks sprinkled randomly throughout the text. Very few of the full stops landed at the end of sentences. Even reading one page showed the lack of editing. Seriously, no-one but close friends or family would buy it.

Rather than self-publishing, you might want to consider electronic publishing. Many well known writers cut their teeth in e-pubs before going on to the big league.

Abelloid

It is possible to get just a few copies printed and bound, to test the market etc. and then make amendments before going on to print more.
In my line of work I regularly come into contact with self-publishers and while they seem enjoy the whole process I'm sure there are many
other authors that would prefer to hand all of their work over to an established publisher so they can focus on the creative aspects,
but this obviously isn't as simple as it sounds. Personally (if I was a writer) I would self publish while still approaching publishers - if
your book is selling already (even in small quantities) I'd imagine it would be more attractive them.

I suppose it depends on how much work you are prepared to do yourself and, of course, the content and potential market of your book.

Best of luck with it whatever you decide to do.

mayasky

Just wanted to ask a question here, Getting a publisher is great, but you could argue that books are going to go the way of the music industry where new 'acts' are discovered online.

I just think that if you can get your book out there in some way online is way better than sitting with rejection letter after rejection letter waiting in the wings with no-one reading your work.

You don't have to pay to get your work read. You can go the e-book route or try a POD printer, if you retain control over the work then you can always have a publisher if you get the attention later on. I would check the T's&C's and find one who leaves control of the book entirely in your hands.

EileenG

It's possible, but hellishly expensive. And it's not a good way to test the market, since you are going to approach people you know, and who will be inclined to take your book because they like you, not because they are panting to read the book.

In order not to make a huge loss, never mind a profit, you need to be selling a lot of books to strangers. This means, at the very least, that one room of your house will turn into a warehouse, and you are going to be slogging round shops trying to get them to stock and promote your book. You will need to get out there and dredge up publicity anywhere you can, and spend a huge amount of time on promotion.

This is the sort of thing that publishers do automatically (though it always helps if you can do your own publicity).

I think electronic publishing is a much more viable alternative. It's easier to get an e-publisher to take a chance on you, as they are not going to incur €100,000 of costs before they make a single sale, and you get a much higher percentage of the sale price.

Justin, how much would you be prepared to spend to self-publish a book while you are waiting for a response from a publisher?

Also, timing is a factor. By the time you edit and print your self-published book, your manuscript had got older. No publisher wants a book which has been going the rounds for a long time, and possibly being rejected by other publishers. Each publisher wants to feel that you have approached them first.

Abelloid

EileenG wrote: »

Justin, how much would you be prepared to spend to self-publish a book while you are waiting for a response from a publisher?

I don't know really, as I mentioned above I'm not a writer - I definitely process all of my thoughts on the left side of my brain, and with that in mind (sorry) I'd take a Dragon's Den approach and print 100 or more 'prototypes' to present to both publishers and shops.
I would prefer to establish at this stage whether my book is something people would like to read or simply something I enjoyed writing (vanity publishing on the other hand can't tell the difference...but that's another story).

Positive feedback would then let me know where I stand and leave me with the choice to carry on but with larger print quantities or focus on getting published with and established publisher - you're not restricted to self publishing just because you chose to begin selling your book this way.

The real cost is, as you say, in your time invested in making contacts and marketing your book but I would never invest more time or money than I could afford to comfortably lose, which leads me to the question; how many authors on here have spent many weeks and months promoting their work to publishers to eventually give up? Harsh as it may sound, if your book is simply not quite as captivating as you had imagined would you carry on waiting weeks or months for each in a series of rejection letters? Or take the pro-active approach and get out and try to sell it yourself, with almost instant feedback?

Anyway (for the last time) I'm not a writer but am involved in the process so would like to hear the views of authors, whether they are published, self published or simply busy writing.

WHU

I read somewhere that it is never a good idea to give a publisher a self published book, apparently they will not like the idea.
There are many companies out there that offer a range of services. I have had no dealings with any myself and I am unsure about posting links here.

EileenG

JustinOval wrote: »

I don't know really, as I mentioned above I'm not a writer - I definitely process all of my thoughts on the left side of my brain, and with that in mind (sorry) I'd take a Dragon's Den approach and print 100 or more 'prototypes' to present to both publishers and shops.
I would prefer to establish at this stage whether my book is something people would like to read or simply something I enjoyed writing (vanity publishing on the other hand can't tell the difference...but that's another story).

I honestly don't think this is a good way to do it, simply because you almost certainly know 100 people who would seek out and buy your book, just because they like you. The big question is, how many total strangers would buy it?

Also, printing 100 copies is likely to cost you a lot more money than you could possibly expect to charge. You are likely to take a loss of at least €1000 just on those books, and that's assuming you do sell them all.

If you wanted to establish whether people would read your book, why not publish it on something like Smashwords.com, and see how many people would buy it? I think there is even a feature there where you can let the customer decide how much the book is worth.

Abelloid

I'd be interested to see how you have worked out the costs and estimated losses on this - have you factored in advertising and promotion to hit a loss of €1000? I do understand what you say about friends/family messing with your statistics but if I thought I could sell 100 books by association alone, I would write one.

I just had a quick look at Smashwords, do people really pay up to traditional book retail prices for a PDF/ e-book? (clearly some do...)

Miranda7

Arynne, most writers have received a lot more than three rejections for novels and I could be wrong but I think that JK was rejected by more than 3 publishers. I would keep sending it out - particularly if you have taken on board the comments from the publishers. There are more than 3 publishers in Ireland and maybe publishers from other countries would be interested. Keep writing and keep sending your work out.

EileenG

No, I was just working on basic printing and binding costs for that. Advertising etc would cost a lot more. And that's assuming you are competent to do your own editing and don't have to pay someone else to do it.

If you look at Amazon, you'll see people pay close to the same price to download an e-book as they do for a paper one. The difference is getting it right away, and no postage costs.

A friend of mine has published her mother's memoirs as an e-book and is selling it as a download through Amazon. She's very happy with sales, and doesn't have to take time away from nursing her mother to try to sell the book.

Mind you, a lot of Smashwords books are going very cheap, and some are free.