Question about roundabouts

junii

Lets say you have two lanes coming into the roundabout... am I correct in saying the first lane is for the first two exits and the second lane for any after.

Somebody also once told me that if the third exit is at the 12 o clock position you should use the left lane even though it maybe the third lane.


Can somebody clarify the rules regarding this or point me to where this is stated in the rules of the road.


Thank you.
Junii.

endplate

I heard about the 12 o clock rule before from a guy who was doing driving lessons for a truck licence. It kinda makes sense when you think about it

mike65

Oh no! A roundabout thread! :eek: (me runs and hides)

Mike.

gibo_ie

there have been MANY roundabout threads. The answer from rules of the road is:

Left lane is for first or second exit ONLY, right lane is for ANY exit EXCEPT first exit.

This applies UNLESS otherwise signposted or marked on the road, e.g. There may be two lanes onto the roundabout at one point but only one off it.

Big example is the roundabout at Leopardstown junction, five exits, two lanes on but only one off in many places. Busses just drive fully around in left lane and cause many accidents!!!

junii

gibo_ie wrote:

there have been MANY roundabout threads. The answer from rules of the road is:

Left lane is for first or second exit ONLY, right lane is for ANY exit EXCEPT first exit.
/QUOTE]

Where is that answer stated on the book please?

So does that mean that some councils are illegal in the way the signpost the roundabout?

Im talking about the headford road roundabout specifically tbh. (The one with the lights). Theres three lanes coming from headford side toward mcdonalds side (town direction). A fella reckons and others have backed him up that you can use the most left lane to go into town but thats the third exit.

Gregor Samsa

So does that mean that some councils are illegal in the way the signpost the roundabout?

The rules of the road state that you should be in the left lane for the first and second exit, and the right lane for any exit after the 12 o'clock position - unless there are road markings or signs instructing you to do otherwise.

Here's a link to the relevant section of the Rules of the Road: http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/roundabouts.html

So there is no legal restriction on Councils signposting roundabouts contrary to the standard rules, and in such instances, the signs should be obeyed.

Blue850

quote ]Left lane is for first or second exit ONLY, right lane is for ANY exit EXCEPT first exit.

so whats the situation if the second exit is a single lane and the car in the left lane and the car in the right lane both want to exit, who has right of way?

seamus

junii wrote:

Where is that answer stated on the book please?

So does that mean that some councils are illegal in the way the signpost the roundabout?

Im talking about the headford road roundabout specifically tbh. (The one with the lights). Theres three lanes coming from headford side toward mcdonalds side (town direction). A fella reckons and others have backed him up that you can use the most left lane to go into town but thats the third exit.

Definitive answer here:

Unless otherwise stated by road markings or signage:
On a two-lane roundabout;
1. A car wishing to turn left must approach in the left-hand lane.
2. A car wishing to proceed straight ahead, should use the left hand lane, but may use the right-hand lane when conditions allow (i.e. if there is sufficient space on the other side of the r/a or all traffic in the left-hand lane is turning left)
3. A car wishing to leave the roundabout by the third or subsequent exit must use the right-hand lane.

If the roundabout has more than two lanes, then rules 1 and 3 are still constants.

Road markings overrule the ROTR, even if they say you can go right in the left-hand lane. If the road markings don't expressly override any of the rules above, then you follow the rules above.

If two vehicles approach the roundabout in both lanes, looking to go straight through, the vehicle in the left-hand lane has right-of-way (the road markings on teh other side of the r/a will usually say this)

Fey!

The Headford Road roundabout (aka The Magic Roundabout) is a nightmare.

Coming from the Terryland (Dunnes) side, the right lane is for the last exit ONLY (heading over Quincentenial Bridge).

Middle Lane is for right over the bridge or straight into town.

Left lane is for left up Sean Mulvoy Road (toward Cemetary Cross roundabout), entrance into Galway Shopping Centre (Tesco) or straight into town.

I have to head over that direction later, so I'll take another look.

Even worse on that roundabout is coming from town or the bridge to go into the shopping centre; you nearly always see people cutting lanes at the last second and nearly crashing. Also, people cutting lanes coming from Terryland or Sean Mulvoy Road to go over the bridge.

NOTE: Markings on the road supercede the rules of the road guidelines; if the lanes have arrows, you follow the arrows.

Hope this helps.

Wishbone Ash

junii wrote:

Somebody also once told me that if the third exit is at the 12 o clock position you should use the left lane even though it maybe the third lane

endplate wrote:

I heard about the 12 o clock rule before from a guy who was doing driving lessons for a truck licence. It kinda makes sense when you think about it

Is it possible that you are confusing it with the situation regarding a second exit which is past '12 o'clock' in which case the right lane approach is used.

Blue850 wrote:

so whats the situation if the second exit is a single lane and the car in the left lane and the car in the right lane both want to exit, who has right of way?

Obviously the vehicle on the left as it is closer to the exit (unless otherwise directed)

Question
This may sound like a silly question coming from a multi-category licence holder and I presume the answer is "yes".

If a roundabout has a private exit, is that exit treated as if it were a normal public exit. The northernmost roundabout in Mitchelstown with the entrance to the Firgrove Hotel is an example. The reason I ask is that I've noticed that on any roundabout with a private road, there is a continuous line all the way across both the entrance and exit of that road.

Thanks.

seamus

Wishbone Ash wrote:

This may sound like a silly question coming from a multi-category licence holder and I presume the answer is "yes".

If a roundabout has a private exit, is that exit treated as if it were a normal public exit. The northernmost roundabout in Mitchelstown with the entrance to the Firgrove Hotel is an example. The reason I ask is that I've noticed that on any roundabout with a private road, there is a continuous line all the way across both the entrance and exit of that road.

That's an interesting one. Officialy a roundabout isn't a junction, it's a series of junctions of equal importance. But private entrances aren't treated as junctions at all. The closest thing is to treat them as a junction with a road of lesser importance. So in theory, a person entering or leaving a private entrance onto a roundabout should yield to *all* traffic, and normal traffic shouldn't treat it as a junction.

Anyone?

colm_mcm

That 12 O'Clock rule is presuming that all exits are at 90 degrees to each other. For instance, the roundabout at the Maudlins interchange (Woodies) in Naas, has two exits before the "12 O'Clock" exit. My understanding is that traffic for the 3rd exit takes the right lane unless otherwise marked. this 12 O'Clock stuff just clouds it.

Wishbone Ash

colm_mcm wrote:

That 12 O'Clock rule is presuming that all exits are at 90 degrees to each other.

I disagree colm. The 12o'clock rule is used where the roundabout is not conventional. There is no difficulty when referring to a standard north, south, east, west roundabout.

colm_mcm

But the 12 o clock rule contradicts the normal rule, so why use it?

Seth Brundle

seamus wrote:

So in theory, a person entering or leaving a private entrance onto a roundabout should yield to *all* traffic, and normal traffic shouldn't treat it as a junction.

Don't know about exiting but a person entering a roundabout always yields to traffic on the roundabout no matter where they came from.

colm_mcm

kbannon wrote:

Don't know about exiting but a person entering a roundabout always yields to traffic on the roundabout no matter where they came from.

Also, if, say the private road was the 3rd exit on the roundabout, and you were going there, you would have priority over traffic coming from the 2nd exit as you are on the roundabout. even though you were exiting onto the private road.

astrofool

Okay, in the case of the attachment below (MSpaint is great ), given the car (red outline rectangle), wants to go straight ahead to the exit with the blue dot, does the driver go in the inside or outside lane?

Wishbone Ash

colm_mcm wrote:

But the 12 o clock rule contradicts the normal rule, so why use it?

Because the 'normal' rules seem suitable to regular roundabouts. When roundabouts appeared first, they were utilised at busy crossroads. But now, with our greater infrastructure ther are many irregular roundabouts which have not replaced crossroads but have been purposely constructed.

On some of these roundabouts, the second exit is 3/4 way round, i.e. more than 12 o'clock.. In this senario, it is more appropriate to enter on the right lane even though the rules deemed a left lane for a second exit.

colm_mcm

so the 12 o clock rule is illegal then. why do people still quote it?

jimmycrackcorm

There is no 12 O'clock rule. The rurles are simple but get confused in the official guidelines by showing a diagram of two lanes entering and two exiting. In reality we have an abundance of roundabouts with two entry lanes and one exit lane.

Wishbone Ash

astrofool wrote:

in the case of the attachment below given the car (red outline rectangle), wants to go straight ahead to the exit with the blue dot, does the driver go in the inside or outside lane?

Right lane would be most appropriate. That situation exists on the Malahide Road Roundabout and the MI Junction (both southbound) on the R132 (old N1). Motorists who presume that they are going 'straight ahead' are actually taking the third exit.


PS - 'Inside' and 'outside' are poor ways of describing lanes as, on a roundabout, the 'inside' lane would naturally be the one nearest the centre. On a straight road, this would generally be considered the 'outside' lane. 'Right', 'left' (and 'centre' if appropriate) are much clearer.

Lex Luthor

colm_mcm wrote:

That 12 O'Clock rule is presuming that all exits are at 90 degrees to each other. For instance, the roundabout at the Maudlins interchange (Woodies) in Naas, has two exits before the "12 O'Clock" exit. My understanding is that traffic for the 3rd exit takes the right lane unless otherwise marked. this 12 O'Clock stuff just clouds it.

Colm, I use this roundabout every morning coming from Naas to go to Dublin. I always approach the roundabout in the right lane and take the 3rd exit which is the 12oclock exit. I've been in a few stand-offs with drivers who have tried to take this exit using the left lane, but normally I just drive on. Unless they make a few signs on this roundabout, there will be a major accident some day. I've seen a few people approach it also in the left lane and take the 4th exit to Johnstown cutting across people trying to get to Dublin.

Fey!

astrofool wrote:

Okay, in the case of the attachment below (MSpaint is great ), given the car (red outline rectangle), wants to go straight ahead to the exit with the blue dot, does the driver go in the inside or outside lane?

If it's 2 lanes on, 2 lanes off, then either. If it's 2 lanes on, 1 lane off, then I think you should be in the right lane (so to speak!).

astrofool

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Right lane would be most appropriate. That situation exists on the Malahide Road Roundabout and the MI Junction (both southbound) on the R132 (old N1). Motorists who presume that they are going 'straight ahead' are actually taking the third exit.


PS - 'Inside' and 'outside' are poor ways of describing lanes as, on a roundabout, the 'inside' lane would naturally be the one nearest the centre. On a straight road, this would generally be considered the 'outside' lane. 'Right', 'left' (and 'centre' if appropriate) are much clearer.

They have another one near me in Carrickmines like that (if you're going straight ahead after leaving "The Park" complex. It's never busy enough that it makes a difference which lane you're in, but were it to get busy its good to know which lane to use Is that a definitive answer btw? Most appropriate doesn't sound definitive.

Alun

astrofool wrote:

They have another one near me in Carrickmines like that (if you're going straight ahead after leaving "The Park" complex. It's never busy enough that it makes a difference which lane you're in, but were it to get busy its good to know which lane to use Is that a definitive answer btw? Most appropriate doesn't sound definitive.

Yes, that's a dodgy one alright, with two exits, one for Ballyogan and the other for the M50 northbound before the straight on exit at 12 o'clock. Luckily there are two lanes at the 12 o'clock exit going over the motorway, since most people take the leftmost lane for that exit.

The one after it heading to Cornelscourt tends to attract people wanting to go all the way around in the leftmost lane too, only there there's only a single lane on the exit.

In both cases all it would take would be a couple of road arrows to remove any ambiguity there might be.

peasant

And what do you do, when ...like me ...you drive a large motorhome (or a truck) that is anything but nimble and a bit hard to see out of because it has large blind spots (especially when going around a bend)?

On a dual carriageway you would normally stay left at all times.
So when you approach a big roundabout that has dual exits and you want to take the third one ...would you in all earnest recommend that I change to the right hand lane on approach and weave into the left near the exit again?

I have tried all options ...staying left all the way round, entering right exiting left, entering right exiting right ...and I have to say neither feels particularly safe or comfortable.

As I'm moving rather slowly (as otherwise I would tip over:D ) there is always other, faster cars weaving in and out around me, making the whole operation quite dangerous.

For me, I have decided that staying left is the least unsafe option ...at least I don't have to bother with changing lanes on top of everything else and can concentrate fully on not creaming somebody else.

Wishbone Ash

peasant wrote:

And what do you do, when ...like me ...you drive a large motorhome (or a truck) that is anything but nimble and a bit hard to see out of because it has large blind spots (especially when going around a bend)?

In my experience, when I'm in a truck or bus, other drivers tend to give a little extra room in normal roundabouts. However, on smaller urban roundabouts it is often necessary to utilise some or all of the left lane when going for the third exit to enable the trailer to clear the centre. I always wait until it is clear and safe to do so but I still get prícks in cars who try to utilise the right lane when I'm half way round. Many these morons probably consider themselves to be good drivers. Do they not realise that the 16.75 metre truck indicating right ahead of them will need to use both lanes in the confined space available?

colm_mcm

I think major roundabouts should have CCTV. bad lane dicipline is as dangerous as speeding.

DrivingInfo

Here is the Rules of the Road

http://www.drivinginfo.ie/rotr-driving.php#6

colm_mcm

Pity people don't care!

Wishbone Ash

DrivingInfo wrote:

Here is the Rules of the Road

http://www.drivinginfo.ie/rotr-driving.php#6

DrivingInfo - we are all familiar with the ROTR. However, this thread refers to roundabouts that are not conventional. All the roundabouts in the ROTR are of the N,S,E,W, type where there is no disagreement.

DrivingInfo

Wishbone Ash wrote:

DrivingInfo - we are all familiar with the ROTR. However, this thread refers to roundabouts that are not conventional. All the roundabouts in the ROTR are of the N,S,E,W, type where there is no disagreement.

The rule of roundabouts applies to all roundabouts.
If you are taking any exit past 12:00 you stay in the right lane, indicate right on the approach.
If you are taking any exit on the left of 12:00 you should stay in the left lane unless the lain is blocked with traffic taking the first exit.

colm_mcm

DrivingInfo wrote:

The rule of roundabouts applies to all roundabouts.
If you are taking any exit past 12:00 you stay in the right lane, indicate right on the approach.
If you are taking any exit on the left of 12:00 you should stay in the left lane unless the lain is blocked with traffic taking the first exit.

You clearly don't understand roundabouts. For example, there could be 2 exits before the 12 O'Clock position, in this situation, you would take the outside lane, indicate right, and take the 12 O'Clock exit.

Smilarly, the 3 O'Clock position might be the first exit off the roundabout, in this situation you take the left hand lane whilst indicating left.

If you aspire to be an authority on how to drive, you should probably familiarise yourself with the rules.

DrivingInfo

colm_mcm wrote:

You clearly don't understand roundabouts. For example, there could be 2 exits before the 12 O'Clock position, in this situation, you would take the outside lane, indicate right, and take the 12 O'Clock exit.

Smilarly, the 3 O'Clock position might be the first exit off the roundabout, in this situation you take the left hand lane whilst indicating left.

If you aspire to be an authority on how to drive, you should probably familiarise yourself with the rules.

O sorry but I do understand roundabouts

As I am an ex driving instructor in trucks, cars and bikes.
YOU DO NOT indicate right when you going straight, which is 12:00. you only indicate right when your going past 12:00

Sorry again but why would there be a roundabout with the only exit at 3:00.
Could I take a chance and say that is a roundabout which is part of roadwork’s and not finished yet..

colm_mcm

So you're telling me that if the third exit on a roundabout is in the 12 O Clock position, the correct procedure is to take the left hand lane and indicate left before taking the 3rd exit?

Wishbone Ash

DrivingInfo wrote:

Sorry again but why would there be a roundabout with the only exit at 3:00.

Colm didn't say an only exit at 3 o'clock - he said a first exit at 3 o'clock

DrivingInfo

As standard yes.

And you made me think no where I would find a roundabout with the 1st exit on the right.
You would see them at the end of a dual carriageway, car stay to the right to go back up the dual carriageway.

The 2nd exit for example is to go back up the dual carriageway

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote:

So you're telling me that if the third exit on a roundabout is in the 12 O Clock position, the correct procedure is to take the left hand lane and indicate left before taking the 3rd exit?

so what's the answer DrivingInfo?

DrivingInfo

Yes

colm_mcm

This is unbelievable!

DrivingInfo

Do you not believe me

On the pic you have there.
1st exit stay left indicate left
2nd stay left indicate left at the 1st to take the 2nd.
3rd stay left indicate left at the 2nd to take the 3rd.
4th stay right indicate right, indicate left at 3rd to take 4th.

PS dont forget mirrors

colm_mcm

• IF LEAVING BY THE FIRST EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the left-hand lane signalling a left turn and proceed to leave the roundabout at that exit.

• IF LEAVING BY THE SECOND EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the left-hand lane but do not signal until you have passed the first exit, then signal a left turn and leave at the next exit.

• IF LEAVING BY ANY SUBSEQUENT EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the right hand lane signalling a right turn. Keep in the right hand lane (i.e. the lane next to the centre). As you pass the exit before the one you intend to leave by, signal a left turn and, when your way is clear, move to the other lane and leave at the desired exit.

DrivingInfo

colm_mcm wrote:

• IF LEAVING BY THE FIRST EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the left-hand lane signalling a left turn and proceed to leave the roundabout at that exit.

• IF LEAVING BY THE SECOND EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the left-hand lane but do not signal until you have passed the first exit, then signal a left turn and leave at the next exit.

• IF LEAVING BY ANY SUBSEQUENT EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the right hand lane signalling a right turn. Keep in the right hand lane (i.e. the lane next to the centre). As you pass the exit before the one you intend to leave by, signal a left turn and, when your way is clear, move to the other lane and leave at the desired exit.

YES but the second exit is at 12:00 or before

DrivingInfo

OK think like this.

Your at 12:00 coming onto the RA
and you see a car with the right indicater on,
Where is he going?

colm_mcm

If I'm in the left hand lane and the other driver's in the right hand lane indicating right, it tells me that as I'm in the left hand lane (taking 1st or 2nd exit) there's no chance that we'll get in each others way.

If the other driver's already on the roundabout and just approaching my exit, and indicating right, it tells me that he's not going to be exiting before I can enter the roundabout

I don't fully understand what you're trying to get at. the scenario is a little vague.