Number 1's for the Defence Forces - ARMY

Maskhadov

currently the Irish Defence Forces (ARMY) has two uniforms.

the Combat dress as seen here


and the number ones as seen here with the brits.



I think its high time the DoD pocured a new number 1s for the army. The dress that they have should be worn like a buisness suit (i.e all the time) with combat uniforms strictly for the field and the new number ones for events of national importance (i.e black tie events).

This is what the US marines have.

Number 1s - dress uniform



Service uniform


combat uniform

babybundy

as it is they might be getting rid of the no. 1's

Maskhadov

and replace them with what ??? We need an extra uniform

Mike...

A new home jersey and away jersey.....lol

With a bit fat dirty eircon logo on the front

Vorsprung

Maskhadov wrote:

We need an extra uniform

A word I often find myself thinking when I read your posts Mask - WHY? What does the current No 1 uniform not do that you would like it to do?

Maskhadov

most militaries have 2 dress uniforms and at least 1 combat uniform.

We only have 1 dress uniforms. Our military should not being using the same uniform for a state event and ordinary day to day duties.

babybundy

i think we should have 3 uniforms as well no.i's , working dress similar to no. 1's but different material (those pants are very ichy) and combats

cushtac

Maskhadov wrote:

Our military should not being using the same uniform for a state event and ordinary day to day duties.

It doesn't.

Maskhadov

i mean things like solider funerals or a press conference by senior soliders for example. Both events soldiers should wear their green uniforms.

For state events (like 1916 commeration etc) we should have a new dress uniform.

cushtac

Given the rarity of such occasions, I think that such a uniform would be an unnecessary expense.

projectmayhem

cushtac wrote:

Given the rarity of such occasions, I think that such a uniform would be an unnecessary expense.

argument doesn't stand because given the neutrality of our nation, an army is also unnecessary, but we have one...

cushtac

projectmayhem wrote:

argument doesn't stand because given the neutrality of our nation, an army is also unnecessary, but we have one...

Since we're discussing the merits of a new uniform for the Defence Forces, and the merits of the Defence Forces itself, the argument does stand.

Maskhadov

bring that topic to another thread !!

Its about time we had a cerimonial dress... The brits in the above picture had to wear their ordinary army uniform to match ours..because we didnt have a proper uniform. PATHETIC

cushtac

It is a 'proper' uniform, it might not be as ornate (or as expensive) as those of the British or USMC but it is a proper uniform nonetheless. The Defence Forces does not carry out public duties with the frequency required to justify the cost.

Defence spending in Ireland doesn't come high on the list of government priorities and, barring some sort of catastrophy, isn't going to be any time soon. Spending some of what's there on a third and pratically useless uniform would be wasteful. Improving what's currently on issue (both combats & no. 1's) and making sure each soldier gets enough of it would be better.

Bam Bam

I wouldn't mind seeing everyone issued superfine uniforms, they look more comfortable then the enlisted dress, not to mention a damn sight better.

Manic Moran

You're all arguing over nothing. The Irish Army already does have two dress uniforms in addition to the DPMs.

There's the Number 1 Service Dress pictured above for daily duty wear, and there's the Mess Dress, which is overall black (with gold and red accents), and depending on the choice of tie (straight or bow), shirt type (Normal, ruffled, butterfly), use of gloves and whatever is for varying types of formal occasion.

It is very rarely seen on the street, but does exist. Kindof comes in between US Army Dress Blues and Mess Dress Blues.

There is also the Army Band formal uniform, which looks very similar, but is more of a Brusnwick Green than black.

NTM

cushtac

Mess dress is only for officers though, the other ranks' mess dress is a white shirt & black tie worn with no. 1's. Both the superfines & mess dress are paid for by the officers themselves.

HST

cushtac wrote:

Mess dress is only for officers though, the other ranks' mess dress is a white shirt & black tie worn with no. 1's. Both the superfines & mess dress are paid for by the officers themselves.

The Other Ranks Mess Dress is their number ones with no belt and no medals.

Maskhadov

Mess dress is not the same as a cerimonal uniform. Its a disgrace that we dont have a proper no 1s uniform like every other nation

HST

For funerals a long over coat is worn and a few other state cerimonies as well.

muletide

HST wrote:

For funerals a long over coat is worn and a few other state cerimonies as well.

No its worn when it rains or when its cold - there are alot of people talking sh1te here

cushtac

muletide wrote:

No its worn when it rains or when its cold - there are alot of people talking sh1te here

Which bits are sh!te?

Manic Moran

Maskhadov wrote:

Mess dress is not the same as a cerimonal uniform.

Granted. That's what the Number 1s do. For example, this is myself in my normal garb for funeral details here in the US. (Note the grave markers in the background)



(Admittedly, since the photo was taken I've clocked up a lot more bling)

Now, if it's good enough for the US Army, what's wrong with Number 1s, the Irish equivalent for Class As, for the same sorts of details?

NTM

Mick86

Maskhadov wrote:

currently the Irish Defence Forces (ARMY) has two uniforms. .....

The artillerymen are in wetsuits not combats. Both the soldiers at Messines are in SD No 2. It is highly impractical to expect soldiers to work in SD No 2. Why on earth would you conduct mortar drills or machine gun training (for example) in barracks dressed like that and then wear DPMs when you are actually firing them. The current working dress is highly practical for daily routine and conforms more or less to the working dress of other armies. SD No 1 or SD No 2 is probably worn three or four times a year which is just as well since it was designed by the Spanish Inquisition. That said it should be redesigned to make it more comfortable and a good start would be a lighter (and probably cheaper) material. The overcoat which is worn in winter (not just at funerals) needs to be redesigned also. There is a plan to reintroduce the peak cap for ceremonial occasions.

projectmayhem wrote:

argument doesn't stand because given the neutrality of our nation, an army is also unnecessary, but we have one..

Neutral nations are obliged to defend that neutrality under the Hague Convention.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/lawofwar/hague05.htm

IrishAirCorps

Manic Moran wrote:

Granted. That's what the Number 1s do. For example, this is myself in my normal garb for funeral details here in the US. (Note the grave markers in the background)



(Admittedly, since the photo was taken I've clocked up a lot more bling)

Now, if it's good enough for the US Army, what's wrong with Number 1s, the Irish equivalent for Class As, for the same sorts of details?

NTM

Are you CALIFORNIA TANKER? ? ? From IMO?

newby.204

Maskhadov wrote:

most militaries have 2 dress uniforms and at least 1 combat uniform.

We only have 1 dress uniforms. Our military should not being using the same uniform for a state event and ordinary day to day duties.

May i ask do you know anything about the army or are you just ranting..... PDF dont wear No.1's for day to day they wear combat uniform and then
No.1's for events and the like

Morpheus

ProjectMayhem wrote:

argument doesn't stand because given the neutrality of our nation, an army is also unnecessary, but we have one..

Were not neutral :mad:
Read constitution. Military policy of non alignment/involvement does not equal neutral state.

Mick86 wrote:

Neutral nations are obliged to defend that neutrality under the Hague Convention.

Plus you are correct, we would be required to defend our sovereign state.

IrishAirCorps

newby.204 wrote:

PDF dont wear No.1's for day to day they wear combat uniform and then
No.1's for events and the like

Up until the late 80's they did wear the number 1's as a day to day uniform even did tactics in them.

Mick86

IrishAirCorps wrote:

Up until the late 80's they did wear the number 1's as a day to day uniform even did tactics in them.

Was that the 1880s?

Until 1987 working dress for NCOs in barracks was SD No 1 unless he was on regimental duty. Working dress for the private soldier was a pair of green overalls. The dress for regimental duty was combat dress including the natty Shirt No 18 cream/khaki complete with tie. :rolleyes: Tactical exercises since the early 70s have been in combats.

In 1987 we got issued with a working dress uniform which consisted of trousers, shirt, jacket, baseball cap and cravat. The trousers and shirt were worn. Nobody actually wore the rest except for two recruit platoons in Clonmel in 1988who wore the baseball cap in training.

newby.204

IrishAirCorps wrote:

Up until the late 80's they did wear the number 1's as a day to day uniform even did tactics in them.

Yes note "late 80's" , welcome all to the 21st century...... up to date info please!! Now we have combat gear!!

cushtac

I suspect he's thinking about the FCA.

newby.204

cushtac wrote:

I suspect he's thinking about the FCA.

Just a tad!!!

Maskhadov

newby.204 wrote:

May i ask do you know anything about the army or are you just ranting..... PDF dont wear No.1's for day to day they wear combat uniform and then
No.1's for events and the like

I know a lot more about military matters than you do !!!

The DF SHOULD be wearing no 1s for everything apart from workman duties (inc combat+training). I was trying to compare it what the US military does !!

The US military frowns on soldiers wearing combat gear when doing non workman items. We should follow this policy.

We should also adopt another uniform for cermonies of national importance. So we would have 3 main uniforms for the army. The DF could probably do with revamping our existing no 1s.

Vorsprung

Maskhadov wrote:

I know a lot more about military matters than you do !!!

It's not a competition.

And it still sounds like a rant.

newby.204

Maskhadov wrote:

I know a lot more about military matters than you do !!!

The DF SHOULD be wearing no 1s for everything apart from workman duties (inc combat+training). I was trying to compare it what the US military does !!

The US military frowns on soldiers wearing combat gear when doing non workman items. We should follow this policy.

We should also adopt another uniform for cermonies of national importance. So we would have 3 main uniforms for the army. The DF could probably do with revamping our existing no 1s.

Listen ill leave you to it, your obviously not much older than 18/19 or so so i shall just bow out of this thread too much ranting not enough fact for my liking. Also you dont seem to listen to reason.

armchairninja

Maskhadov wrote:

I know a lot more about military matters than you do !!!

How can you be sure of this!....are u also a member of the psychic forum:rolleyes:

And wat would be the point of wearing no.1s for day to day duties, from what iv read and heard so far, nobody else seems to have a problem!

The US military frowns on soldiers wearing combat gear when doing non workman items

Incase you hadnt noticed this is IRELAND!

Manic Moran

Maskhadov wrote:

The US military frowns on soldiers wearing combat gear when doing non workman items. We should follow this policy.

Actually, it's gone the other way. Standard duty wear in an office these days is BDUs/ACUs, with Class Bs or As usually only being worn if there's a public meeting involved. I'm not so keen on the idea myself, I prefer the idea of Bs, but there is no denying that using the combats involves much less uniform maintainance and dry cleaning bills.

It should also be noted that the US Army recently announced it was eliminating the green Class As, (and white tropical uniform) and using the more traditional blue uniform instead, which had been kept as a separate, more ceremonial uniform. Evidently they didn't see the need for so many uniforms either.

NTM

IrishAirCorps

I have pics from the Air Corps of guys working in Number 1's unless of course it was a "family day" but it was in the 70's/80's and well before the "Air Force Blue" as David Andrews DF Minister at the time called it.

armchairninja

The Air Corps have a working dress for Day to Day now, and it consists of a dark blue shirt and combat trousers, and steel toe boots and forage cap, they similar to the army have a ceremonial dress, which consist of blue no.1s a white ceremonial belt with a silver buckle and a peaked cap.

In the 70s and 80s the working dress and the No.1s looked identical, and the air corps wore blue overalls and the army wore brown overalls, and in the mid 80s the air corps started to switch into green overalls

muletide

Have any of ye actually thought about what soldiers want to wear. All i see here is they should wear this or they should wear that. Personally I would like to see all the BT girls in thongs but I am not going to be granted my wishes.

None of ye (or very few) actually have to wear the stuff so ye dont really know what ye are talking about. The soldiers dont complain about what they wear on a daily basis so therefore they must be happy and therefore it is the correct dress for them to be wearing

armchairninja

I havent said what they should be wearing, i was just adding my 2 cents, i think the idea of wanting a 3rd uniform because the yanks have one is truly rediculous...
As i said the only ones that i've heard complaining are the op and those who agree with the op.....

Manic Moran

IrishAirCorps wrote:

Are you CALIFORNIA TANKER? ? ? From IMO?

Who?

Maskhadov

newby.204 wrote:

Listen ill leave you to it, your obviously not much older than 18/19 or so so i shall just bow out of this thread too much ranting not enough fact for my liking. Also you dont seem to listen to reason.

Im 26 and just clearing a point I made. I also have a lot of military experience.

Attack the post not the poster by the way !!

testicle

What's this IMO I keep hearing about?

Someone who is 26 has a maximum of 9 years of military experience, which is not a lot so stop talking ****e.

Maskhadov

its enough to know a few things about uniforms.

armchairninja

Maskhadov wrote:

its enough to know a few things about uniforms.

So if you know about uniforms, why are you still ranting on about what we dont need!, If you have military experience you should know that there is no real need for another uniform, it would be a needless expense imho

IrishAirCorps

IMO- www.irishmilitaryonline.com
IAP- www.irishairpics.com
FII- www.flyinginireland.com

cushtac

muletide wrote:

Have any of ye actually thought about what soldiers want to wear. All i see here is they should wear this or they should wear that. Personally I would like to see all the BT girls in thongs but I am not going to be granted my wishes.

None of ye (or very few) actually have to wear the stuff so ye dont really know what ye are talking about. The soldiers dont complain about what they wear on a daily basis so therefore they must be happy and therefore it is the correct dress for them to be wearing

There's only one person arguing for another uniform here.

babybundy

the only thing i would change with the no. 1's i would use the peak hat when i was with mp's we had the peak hat with the red band around it and i thought it looked better unfortunatly when i went back to the infintry i was stuck with the berret for no. 1's

The thing

As a serving soldier, I can tell you that most soldiers 90% of them would like to see the introduction of a proper cermional uniform much akin to that of US service blues or European service dress number ones. The Irish No.1's should be retained for certain occasions and events but not for state occassions. They are out of date/ ill fitting of poor quality material and horrible to wear.
The combat uniform could also do with some updating also. Zippered pockets and inserts for knee pads. APC Crewmen should have a proper APC crewmans suit as the current DPM uniform is totally unsuited to the job.
I also think that the Army should introduce back Irish headdress for every unit of the Army. Berrets are not an Irish headress. The Glengarry and Caubeen are. In 1916 the Irish volunteers donned slouch hats. Ireland is not France or Britain or Germany. We should show our national idenidity by show casing our individuality and wearing Irish headress.

triskell

The thing wrote:

As a serving soldier, I can tell you that most soldiers 90% of them would like to see the introduction of a proper cermional uniform much akin to that of US service blues or European service dress number ones. The Irish No.1's should be retained for certain occasions and events but not for state occassions. They are out of date/ ill fitting of poor quality material and horrible to wear.
The combat uniform could also do with some updating also. Zippered pockets and inserts for knee pads. APC Crewmen should have a proper APC crewmans suit as the current DPM uniform is totally unsuited to the job.
I also think that the Army should introduce back Irish headdress for every unit of the Army. Berrets are not an Irish headress. The Glengarry and Caubeen are. In 1916 the Irish volunteers donned slouch hats. Ireland is not France or Britain or Germany. We should show our national idenidity by show casing our individuality and wearing Irish headress.

I agree with the thing on most, as a recent exer with 18 years of service, most pdf could not give a flyinf f**k about no1s they only wear them when they have to/ told to. anyone who has spent hours on parade on a winters morning will tell you how badly a decent replacement is needed not another one to look after. the qm's cant supply half of whats needed already,
replace the headdress with a traditional headress, the beret is crap