trick or simply true?

lau1247

Let me just say that I'm not looking down on people..
but it's something i just have mixed opinion on do i help or not?


After work last week, on my way home..
Was about to get on the luas..
As it was approaching, this guy was asking for change to pay for hostel accomodation..
Lately there's been a bunch of guys sitting by the machine asking for change as people get tickets..

What strikes me to think why I shouldn't help is when I got on..
I saw the guys checking out the time on his mobile phone..
A mobile!! If he don't have money for accomodation, how the hell does he get a mobile??

kinda makes me think why do i work hard only to donate it away to a faker?

What does boardie think of this one?

Terry

maybe someone gave him the phone.

Rb

I've came across these jokers a few times in the past, one I actually felt sorry for and gave him a bit of change. Then when whipped out a spliff and asked us did we want some of it with him. Was about to ask for the money back but instead just walked off.
Never again will I give them so much as a cent.

Heyes

To be fair its quite hard to tell, we used to have some people beggings at the traffic lights at the old place, but you d also see them walking half way down the road and getting into a bmw...

Ruu_Old

I gave money someone at Bus Aras, I had a quid in my back pocket and that would be the last of it! I handed the chap the 2 euro and he let out a great big sigh as if to say "fúck sake, is that all? stingey fúcker!". No thanks or nothing, just walked off. I should have took off after him and got it back.

Gone West

julep wrote:

maybe someone gave him the phone.

come on, are you living in some sort of parralel universe, or are you simply trolling?

Gone West

Also, I never give money to people begging.
But sometimes I'd give them food. Like where I know there is always a homeless guy on my way back to my apartment, I'd buy a bag of chips and give it to him, say I bought one too many and did he want it?
Some of them get offended, so fnck them, they shouldn't be begging on the streets if they won't accept food. But the vast majority of people begging are very very grateful of it.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Dun laoire

julep wrote:

maybe someone gave him the phone.

Thats funny man

Húrin

Most beggars will use money for drink and drugs. I only give them food and clothes.

Ruu_Old

Reminds me when I was in Heidelberg train station, a fella came up to me and started speaking in German, of course I had no idea what he was saying. I cut him off mid sentence and told him I didn't speak any German. He said "Ok sorry, I make my living walking around the station and collecting money from people, would you be able to spare some change?" No lie! I told him where to go, as polite as I could.

Huggles

Theres an old man around where I work and I normally get him coffee and a muffin every other evening if I see him. I'd say he is about 60 odd and we have been talking for a year now.

Few weeks back I didn't have time to go to teh shop for him so i gave him a fiver, I was immediately attacked by this D4 bitch in a pair of O'Neill tracksuit bottoms and a pink baseball hat "you shouldn't be encoraging that loike, you make them worse yah"...she's so lucky her bus came!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

Tha Gopher

H&#250 wrote: »

Most beggars will use money for drink and drugs.

So will most working folk tbh

Well, we would were it not for the great drought of 06. Until it lifts alcoholism will suffice.

A Romanian asked me for change when I was drunk. Iirc i went into a rant about how I had two jobs and she should go fcuk herself.

Gone West

TheGooner wrote:

this D4 bitch in a pair of O'Neill tracksuit bottoms and a pink baseball hat "you shouldn't be encoraging that loike, you make them worse yah"...she's so lucky her bus came!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

aye its very easy to say that sort of thing from the other side of the fence.
How many of you have ever had to spend serious time sleeping on the street or living without a home?
Not many, not many at all.

Even if he does spend the money on a bottle of whiskey or something, at least thats some enjoyment he/she will have that day. A break from the mundane sh1ttyness of their everyday life.

L31mr0d

yeah learnt my lesson. Some woman came up to me outside Gogartys in Dublin, she genuinely looked like she had been sleeping in the gutter so I gave her €5, she then said "listen I have €3 in my cup, can I give you the €5 and you give €10" it was at this point that as she stretched out the cup I saw all the needle marks in her arm, I quickly exited into Gogartys and told her that was all I had. 2 hours go by and i'm leaving with my friends and shes still outside, she makes a beeline for me. She only bothered me for another few minutes as my friends where telling her to go away at this point as well.

Like fuzzylogic, i'd only buy a homeless person food. I once bought a baguette and a cup of coffee for this homeless person in Venice, and the look of gratitude made it worth while. The guy was clearly traveling around europe and must of just run out of money, something which a few of my friends have had to endure and they always remember the people who where kind enough to buy them food. In saying that, they had to sleep on the street, but they never sold their phone. I guess to a backpacker, a phone is a necessity, whereas a bed isn't, correct me if i'm wrong?

stepbar

Rem a bit back I was goin off for an interview, it was about half 11 in the morning . Seen a guy ahead of me sitting on the ground with a can in his hand. As I passed him by he goes "Would you give me a ****?" classy stuff Ill tell ya. Told him to go **** himself Proceeded to walked by two lads looking for change a few metres past the other guy, jeasus I was bullin.... See a few guys the odd time down at the ATM outside Dunnes (Georges St), on the ground shivering blanket and all........ and it sunny outside

acri

i don't give anyone money. but i'll give them tea or something. generally if i catch a homeless person's eye, i'll stop and offer them a cigarette. there's a guy on abbey street i stop and get him a tea and a smoke on my way home from work. but no, i don't give them money, especially if they come up to you asking for it. they can **** off.

FranknFurter

FuzzyLogic wrote:

aye its very easy to say that sort of thing from the other side of the fence.
How many of you have ever had to spend serious time sleeping on the street or living without a home?
Not many, not many at all.

Even if he does spend the money on a bottle of whiskey or something, at least thats some enjoyment he/she will have that day. A break from the mundane sh1ttyness of their everyday life.

Exactly.
To my mind, its ridiculous to say "I'm not giving him/her money in case they spend it on "whatever".......
How do you know what somone else needs?
Maybe somone living on the street whos an alcoholic *does* need drink or drugs to stop themselves going into withdrawl on the street and being open to being killed or injured.

If somone couldnt afford their next fix, went into withdrawl and was so bad they died in agony on a cold wet doorstep, Im sorry, Id rather not have participated in that by assuming I knew what was best for them and when it was best for them.

Im sick of "I dont give them money because"........ you either do or dont, both are fine, but ffs dont try and rationalise it, you are giving them money to survive, not to survive by your rules. And if you are doing the latter you are deluding yourself.

b

lau1247

FranknFurter wrote:

Im sick of "I dont give them money because"........ you either do or dont, both are fine, but ffs dont try and rationalise it, you are giving them money to survive, not to survive by your rules. And if you are doing the latter you are deluding yourself.

I know their lives are not well off in comparison to the average people
But why should we work like a chump 9-5 everyday earning dosh to keep us going,
While they spend their day outside (by outside I don't mean homeless wise but rather I mean in terms of no need to be stuck in a place of work) and living freely..
Yes the downside is they have to beg..

And to know that they spend our hard earned money on luxury that is not even needed without much input of effort is just ridiculous..
They should at least spend it or save as much as possible on/for basic needs first until they can stay afloat on their own feet..
The thought just pisses me off.. you know?

If their case is genuinely real.. yes, we definitely should show sympathy

stepbar

Lets be straight here there should be no reason why someone should be homeless in 2006 given the welfare rates we have in this country. Rent allowance covers your accomadation and Dole should cover other basic needs. Unfortunately when someone is on drugs (alcohol is a drug too..) this sort of logic goes out the window... Giving money to someone who is homeless and on drugs only goes to sustain their suitation, which solves nothing. Personally I would not give any money to someone on the street, Focus Ireland gets my few quid.

Gone West

lau1247 wrote:

I know their lives are not well off in comparison to the average people
But why should we work like a chump 9-5 everyday earning dosh to keep us going,
While they spend their day outside (by outside I don't mean homeless wise but rather I mean in terms of no need to be stuck in a place of work) and living freely..
Yes the downside is they have to beg..

And to know that they spend our hard earned money on luxury that is not even needed without much input of effort is just ridiculous..
They should at least spend it or save as much as possible on/for basic needs first until they can stay afloat on their own feet..
The thought just pisses me off.. you know?

If their case is genuinely real.. yes, we definitely should show sympathy

Sorry bud, but youre reallly deluded here.
I can offer you this one piece of advice, but I seriously doubt you have the balls to do it.
Next time you see a serious* homeless person begging or sitting in a doorstep, ask them would they like to have lunch with you. Your treat. take em somewhere cheap where they wont feel madly out of place. BK or McD's or so.
Ask them why they are homeless. Ask them anything and everything that you would like to know about homeless people.
Its a fair trade for a free lunch. They probably wont mind.
After this, (you will probably get their life story, pretty much) I can guarantee that you would change your mind and attitude.


*real down and outs, not the co(ks from tallaght with the new nikes and the jewellery.

biko

So what do you suggest, a string and two cans? A phone is important for any individual and perhaps some off the begged money is going to Vodafone.

kdouglas

dont see a problem with a homeless person having a phone,odds are it was probably a reasonably old one, if it was a brand-spanking-new 300euro phone then that's a different story altogether and they are probably faking

have a read of this if you want, it's about homeless people being donated laptops and such

FranknFurter

If the public were more informed of the homeless situation in out city it might begin to change......unfortunately all we ever hear about are the various scammers or troublemakers......

lau1247 wrote:

I know their lives are not well off in comparison to the average people
But why should we work like a chump 9-5 everyday earning dosh to keep us going,

Then dont give them anything, if thats how you feel then its simple, dont give any. Otherwise its a "Ill give to him to feel good" thing.

lau1247 wrote:

While they spend their day outside (by outside I don't mean homeless wise but rather I mean in terms of no need to be stuck in a place of work) and living freely..
Yes the downside is they have to beg..

Are you serious? How bout you take a week off, spend the day in the city in the freezing cold or pissing rain, not being allowed into shops / pubs / etc to get out of said rain or cold. Then tell me which you would prefere.

lau1247 wrote:

And to know that they spend our hard earned money on luxury that is not even needed without much input of effort is just ridiculous..
They should at least spend it or save as much as possible on/for basic needs first until they can stay afloat on their own feet..
The thought just pisses me off.. you know?

Since when is it "easy" to get free of a drug addiction? "Not needed and without much effort" yep, Ill pay you to say that to an alcoholic or recovering heroin addict.

b

the_syco

H&#250 wrote: »

Most beggars will use money for drink and drugs. I only give them food and clothes.

Totally true. For €5 a night, they can sleep in one of the many "homeless hostels" (its what they're called unofficialy). They ring a freephone number, agree to be at one of about 20 point throughout dublin at a time between 10pm and 5am, and the homeless bus will pick them up, and deliver them to the hostel. But they can't do drugs. And there's only 2 "wet hostels", where they can drink in, but are VERY hard to get into. Meant to be great craic inside, tho, at night. Their are "male" or "female/family" sections in the bigger hostels.
After a while, they get moved to more pernament accomadation, and then are given the chance to get a job, after back to work training. This process may take a while, but the rewards, giving them a chance in life, is great. Mainly because some were born homeless, ran away, or lost their family due to alcolhol.

stepbar wrote:

on the ground shivering blanket and all........ and it sunny outside

If you lean against a radiator for a few hours at night, next day you'll be cold all day. Pretty much the same thing, I'd say.

=-=

From working in one of the organisations that helps homeless people, the worst thing you can do is to give them money. One of the hardest things for the homeless people is to give up a job that pays around €100 to €300 a day, and stay sober. You may think I'm having a laugh, but during the summer, its near impossible to get them in off the streets, as they'd prefer to sit in the doorways and drink (as its not cold).

Someone said about getting a homeless guy in for a meal: bad idea. They're homeless for a reason, be it abusiveness, alcohol, drugs, etc.

One of the hostel landlords won €10,000 in the lotto. Being the good soul that he is, he used some of that money to bring out all the homeless people for a meal, in a restaurant. Great craic was had, free food, free drink, and on the way home, they mugged him, and took the few hundred he had on him, and ran away. As for source, I heard about this when I was working for the homeless orgainsation.

Gandhi

Just to lighten up the mood a bit, while staying on topic...

I heard a story during the week about a homeless guy in New York, who stands outside Penn Station begging for money. This guy strips off to his underpants, and is skinny as a rake (being homeless and all) but uses a black marker to draw abs, pecs and biceps on himself, and stands there doing all the body-builder poses. He has a sign saying "will flex for food".

Apparently he makes serious cash, as even jaded New Yorkers give him marks for creativity.

Terry

just something that needs to be noted here. you cannot get the dole if you do not have a permanent address. carry on.

Hobbes

Should of asked him if he had change of a 20.

lodgepole

lau1247 wrote:

I saw the guys checking out the time on his mobile phone..
A mobile!! If he don't have money for accomodation, how the hell does he get a mobile??

What age was he? Phones aren't exactly expensive, and if he's recently homeless it's not outrageous to imagine that he already had one.

You have to make a judgement call with homeless people... I understand the people who say that giving people money on the street doesn't help the bigger picture but it does give them something immediate. I've had people feed me the hostel line and then admit to me that they just wanted to buy a bit of booze, and that's fair enough. As far as buying food goes, I wouldn't just get buy them something and hand it to them, approach and ask if they'd like something... Either they do or they don't and at least then you can pick them up something they'd like. In my experience people who are homeless appreciate being spoken to like a human being. You've reached a pretty low point in your life when you have to ask strangers for change, the least I can do is spend a few quid making them feel a little better about themselves.

lau1247 wrote:

But why should we work like a chump 9-5 everyday earning dosh to keep us going,
While they spend their day outside (by outside I don't mean homeless wise but rather I mean in terms of no need to be stuck in a place of work) and living freely..

I know, the lucky bastards.

Wez

Tha Gopher wrote:

So will most working folk tbh

Well, we would were it not for the great drought of 06. Until it lifts alcoholism will suffice.

A Romanian asked me for change when I was drunk. Iirc i went into a rant about how I had two jobs and she should go fcuk herself.

I'll second that motion.. Damn gaurds doing their job!

stepbar

julep wrote:

just something that needs to be noted here. you cannot get the dole if you do not have a permanent address. carry on.

There are ways around this (if you are smart enough). There is nothing to stop him/her putting down the address of a hostel (with permission) and some do. Or even a family member / friend. All they need is one letter stating that this person is a resident of xyz hostel / house etc. Its not going to be checked up... as long as the document states xyz that is it. He/She can get supplementary welfare allowance in the mean time, so really there should be no excuse for someone being homeless. Because in fairness the majority of these people had a home a some stage of their lives, and had friends / family; therefore they should have been able to sort out this readily enough. Now, the social welfare wont keep someone on money if they dont do as they ask (i.e sign on every month, go to FAS after 6 months for reeducation). In fairness that is their fault if they dont turn up and not the fault of the system. Payment will be cut after that. And thats where the problems start. Now who is to blame for that? The individual simple as...

L31mr0d

I think its a judgement call on the part of the pedestrian whether to give the person money or food. I'm not generalizing homeless romanians as a whole, but I have a friend thats a courier and he said he'd be passing through the city center at around 7am every morning and he would see romanian guys in BMWs dropping off women and children to beg on the street for the day, all over the city. I can't verify it this is true, but I remember passing by this one Romanian walking up Grafton st and she had quite a few euros in and a fiver in her hat, then on the way back 10 minutes later the hat was empty except for a few coppers, and she was still begging for more. I think its a racket because I have NEVER see a romanian sleeping on the street when i'm leaving a pub but I see plenty of Irish people.

James Larkin would turn in his grave. I always remember one of his grandchildren, in his fourties, giving a speech in our class and breaking down into tears about the state of the country and the level of homelessness.

greenkittie

I quite agree with stepbar, the only reason people are homeless in Dublin in 2006 is by their own choice.

argh.
trick or TREAT.

lodgepole

greenkittie wrote:

I quite agree with stepbar, the only reason people are homeless in Dublin in 2006 is by their own choice.

That's not the case. Some are victims of their own mistakes, but many have no choice in their homelessness.

Why would somebody choose to be homeless? Of course not everybody who begs is homeless, nor is everybody worthy of recieving our help. There are lots of people living in shelters and hostels who are in need of help also.

stepbar

But they choose not to abide by the rules laid down by the social welfare / health boards. Believe me the social welfare / health boards bend over backwards to help and prevent people from having to walk the streets.

Fanny Cradock

once, a long time ago, i did a little bit of work with homeless people. it was a glimse into the stark reality that many of these people live in. anyway, i couldn't stick it, it was too much for me, but i did learn that money given to these people will, more than likely, go straight to feeding their addiction. subsequently i, like some other posters out there, will give a cup of tea etc. instead.

the fact of the matter is that many (I'm not saying all) of these folks have some sort of mental illness that is accentuated by their addiction. To say that homelessness is "their own choice" totally fails to address the reality of their situation, be it the state of their mental health or other cirmstances which have caused them to end up in their current position. As an example, telling someone who is clinically depressed to "snap out of it" isn't going to do much good really.

greenkittie

It may be so that these people have mental problems and or addictions but they know exactly how to get themselves off the streets and they don't do it therefore I can have no sympathy. Earlyer on in the topic someone mentiond that it was near impossible to get them to stay in hostels in the summer, fact of the matter is they like their lifestyle.

On a slightly differnt topic.. in Belfast a common thing done by the rich kid goths of the city is "tapping" where they ask random passers by for a small amount of money untill they scrape enough together to buy a 10 deal before going home to mummy and daddy later in the evening.

Gone West

greenkittie wrote:

fact of the matter is they like their lifestyle.

another deluded poster.
*sigh*

greenkittie

They see themselves outside of society and they are content with continuing in the manner to which they have become accoustmed. I say help those who want help, let the rest rot.

Fanny Cradock

rot you say?

you're right though, homeless people love the life. any why not? i mean the constant chance of being beaten as you sleep, shorter life spans, increased likelihood of contracting various diseases, bighting cold and, of course, little hope.

ah yes, halcion days beside the cash machine!!

L31mr0d

greenkittie wrote:

let the rest rot.

I actually laughed at the absurdity of that, its like something off monty python.

juanjo

loads of them have mental problems, kittie, and it is not easy to help sum1 who doesn't see that needs any help. I saw this documentary in Spain about homeless who stayed at metro stations overnight, actually some stations remain open on the coldest days in winter for them in Madrid, there were 2 pple that caught my attention. this argentinian girl who came to make a living there in Spain, she got pregnant and was dumped by the boyfriend (what a scumbag, by the way) and this guy from a tiny town who went to look for a job and never got one, i don't know, he was so ashamed of returning back or something that he stayed waiting for that call that never got. It was really sad to see the guy dressed smartly, with his suitcase and mobile, just waiting...

It is quite complex and can't be lightly considered, u got junkies, pple taking advantage of good folks, mentally troubled... I think that the thing is to try to spot what kind of person u have in front. I personally give change to pple who r doing something (1st musician i see at the metro station in madrid, for example), but never to romanian gypsies or junkies.

Ruu_Old

greenkittie wrote:

They see themselves outside of society and they are content with continuing in the manner to which they have become accoustmed. I say help those who want help, let the rest rot.

Hopefully everyone will offer as much compassion as you.:rolleyes: Very ignorant comment.

[Jackass]

I have a divided opinion on this also OP.

I used to give a euro or two (selfishly because I used to think it gives you good luck/ Karma) but I decided after getting abuse off some of these people for not giving change when I genuinely didn't have it and also once being called cheap when I took €50 out of an ATM and gave him a €1 coin....

(Obviously it's not a fortune, but if everybody who went to that ATM on a saturday night gave him what I did, he could have a four course steak meal.)

I have devised some rules, because I'm sick of being ripped off left right and centre and then when I can give away any money I can spare (which isn't a lot) there is no appreciation. And before you say it, yes, there should be apprecation, not to boost my own ego, but if somebody paid for my accomodation, dinner or drugs, I would at least have the manners to say thank you.

So here are my rules which will not go down well but I stand by them.

1/ Never give to junkies or anyone who's strung out. If they're not going to help themselves then I wont help them and a part of me feels I'm donating money to organised crime.

2/ Anyone who approaches me on the street or especially when i'm sitting outside a bar i will not give money.

3/ Gypses (sp?) I will never give money to no matter what the circumstances. Is it racist? Probably, but i've seen too much of those women over europe and in Ireland thieving and fighting, they harress people on the street and have no respect for local surroundings, people or eachother.

(I have at least 10 examples to back me up on this and this is the most iron-clad one...I will say it, they are complete scum. I'm only back from benidorm today, sh*t hole I know, but the place was swarming with them selling roses, I saw them kick the living sh*t out of eachother over "their patch", mugging and pulling hair and generaly kicking the fu*k out of English or Irish drunken girls)

Besides, if they need the money so bad, why don't they sell one of their teeth?

4/ If you are sitting by an ATM or anyother form of public service in an attempt to intimidate people, or gilt trip them into giving money, you aint getting a cent.

If you say "any spare change please?" as I walk by and don't have any of the above attributes I will gladly give you money and if you're not a scumbag about it, I reguraly give money to the same people as I pass. I know (of) at least 5 or 6 people who are in and around the same areas asking for money who are cool about it and I believe to be genuine so I always give two or three euro.

juanjo

and nick, those gypsies are here asking for the dole as refugees, they put more children that they have on it (know it from a rumanian "normal" guy) and they can prolly buy ur house just with the gold they carry in their mouths.

greenkittie

Not Dublin but an interesting read, especially the picture section as it puts a face to the "homeless" we have been talking about.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/11/30/MNG263BHKR1.DTL

stepbar

Sure and they are the ones who know how to get it, I dealt with 2 incidents involving Romanians, one guy was in the country for 3 yrs and tried to get out of looking for a job cause he.... wait for it..... wanted to go learn English.... Part time! :rolleyes: had friend in toe to "represent" him as well. Don’t get me wrong there are plenty of people who come here and haven’t a word but after 3 yrs? Taking the p1ss TBH :rolleyes:

Another pair of jokers (man and wife) were trying to extract more money from the system. They would come up to the hatch and ask for their payments to be taken separately because they were seperated....., then to emphasize the point the would start fighting... laughing and giggling.... taking the p1ss :rolleyes: Separated my hole. What was even worse they would bring their young son and he would have to watch this charade.

Black Swan

Ruu wrote:

Reminds me when I was in Heidelberg train station, a fella came up to me and started speaking in German, of course I had no idea what he was saying. I cut him off mid sentence and told him I didn't speak any German. He said "Ok sorry, I make my living walking around the station and collecting money from people, would you be able to spare some change?" No lie! I told him where to go, as polite as I could.

Was in Los Angeles not too long ago and I was in one of my silly moods. This guy in fancy duds approached me asking for taxi money. I asked him, "Can you make change?" and he reached into his pocket and pulled out a wad of dollars! I laughed and walked off. He said some rather unpleasant things to my back.

greenkittie

As an aside, i have always liked the idea of a sexy hobo... like in the Smashing Pumpkins video for Try Try Try.

FranknFurter

Really is hard to believe some of the opinions here, specially given that its 2006.

As always, with all minority groups, its the bad eggs that we constantly hear of, not the fact that in 50 homeless people maybe 1 may be a scammer.

Go to a hostle at night, then you will get some perspective on how many truely homeless people are in need. You may gain some perspective.
(And FYI, most hostles reach full capacity within 2 hours of opening each night, *thats* why some people can't or don't use them).

Really irk's me how some people have had such an extremely easy lifestyle and have'nt bothered to take the time to look around them, past the gates of mammy and daddies 250,000 euro house.

I have NOTHING against somone NOT giving to charity, be it homless or otherwise, what DOES piss me off is people making blind judgments about others. "He looks like a junkie, therfore he must be, no euro coin for him!".... never even thinking "well, maybe hes been wearing the same clothes for 6 months and is so thin because he has'nt eaten".....or "maybe those marks on his wrists are from a failed suicide attempt"....... *sigh*....

As always, its a huge shame only the scammers hit the media or make the "friend of a friend told me..." stories start...

b