Hilltop Quad?

fathersymes

Has anyone had any experience with Pat Cooke and this place? I paid them a visit the other day enquiring about the clay shooting facilities and rifle range and was treated in quite a beligerent manner.

Mr Cookes manner was gruff and rude with monosyllabic answers to any of my questions.

He told me it was 600euros to join, never offered to show me around or talk about the clay stands, rifle range etc.

When I asked about the clay shooting stands etc. When I asked him about bringing my own cartridges to shoot some clays, he said 'you don't bring your own drink to a pub'.

Needless to say, I won't be back. The atmosphere was dreadfull! In total contrast to Courtlough where you are welcomed and the membership fee is 250 I think.

Rew

He's like that till he gets to know you don't take it personaly. He gets alot of tier kicking and dodgy characters.

fathersymes

Some way to treat a customer all the same! In all the grounds/ranges I have shot at, I have always received a welcome and friendly service.

Tallaght Rod & Gun got the same treatment, I took my business elsewhere.

Is his membership fee really 600 quid?

Hezz700

Rew wrote:

He's like that till he gets to know you don't take it personaly. He gets alot of tier kicking and dodgy characters.

I had the same experience the first time i showed up there, but he's grand once he knows your not a dodgy git.;)

Hezz.

Rew

fathersymes wrote:

Some way to treat a customer all the same! In all the grounds/ranges I have shot at, I have always received a welcome and friendly service.

Tallaght Rod & Gun got the same treatment, I took my business elsewhere.

Is his membership fee really 600 quid?

Only for the fist year, alot cheaper after that. Scares off the messers.

Sparks

Scares off the messers.

Fine line to walk, that.
What's the average age of members in the club?

Rew

Iv only ever seen guys in there 30's+ up there

garmac

It's true Pat can come across as quite blunt and curt but I have shot there many times and what the others say is quite true that once he gets to know you himself Marian & family are very decent people.
I bought my first ever gun from Pat and did a lot of research/ window shopping beforehand & discovered I'd rather buy from someone who told the truth instead of someone who would say mass to get you to buy a gun that didn't fit, purely for the sale.
He even sent a fax to the hotel at my wedding reception wishing us well. I never said where. Nice touch.
BTW I promise I'm not related, just a satisfied customer .

BOBTHESHOOTER

fathersymes wrote:

Some way to treat a customer all the same! In all the grounds/ranges I have shot at, I have always received a welcome and friendly service.

Tallaght Rod & Gun got the same treatment, I took my business elsewhere.

Is his membership fee really 600 quid?

Hi there fathersymes, seems like you are not having much luck in your travels. My experience with Pat and his crew is far different to that which you experienced, he is very helpful has put a load of effort into the provision of a super location to shoot for anyone with a rifle, shotgun or pistol.

With respect to joining fees, I would love to be advised of a golf club where you would be entertained for less than €2500K joining fee, I have seen so much money spent on guns and so much bitching about fees from some individuals......................

One thing I am very aware of is that Pat is a very good business man, he provides a great service and value for money. I am also very sure that he does not suffer fools and has no time for tyre kickers and I do not blame him.

Did fathersymes actually go there to purchase something or just have a nosy!

One persons experience is hardly a license to destroy the reputation of an individual. And no I am not related either.

Sparks

One persons experience is hardly a license to destroy the reputation of an individual.

True, but:
1) It shows how important customer relations are;
2) It's not the first time that these exact sentiments have been expressed about Hilltop - grand place, grand people once you get to know them.

Hezz700

Ah sure jayus lads, i'm horrible B*****ks until ya get to know me, and when ya know me i'm twice as bad.:D

Sparks

Was that a coming out?

garmac

never offered to show me around or talk about the clay stands, rifle range etc.

There is probably other reasons for this including, but not limited to liability/insurance issues.
Also, in Pat's defence he received a massive ammount of grief from other "locals" in their nice houses in the area about noise levels etc so maybe that too is why he's apprehensive about the grand tour.
Never mind that the is a gun dealer with large stocks living in a relatively quiet area.
persistence is the key!! It's worth it. IMHO anyway.

annoymous

fathersymes wrote:

Has anyone had any experience with Pat Cooke and this place? I paid them a visit the other day enquiring about the clay shooting facilities and rifle range and was treated in quite a beligerent manner.

Mr Cookes manner was gruff and rude with monosyllabic answers to any of my questions.

He told me it was 600euros to join, never offered to show me around or talk about the clay stands, rifle range etc.

When I asked about the clay shooting stands etc. When I asked him about bringing my own cartridges to shoot some clays, he said 'you don't bring your own drink to a pub'.

Needless to say, I won't be back. The atmosphere was dreadfull! In total contrast to Courtlough where you are welcomed and the membership fee is 250 I think.

You'll meet that grumpy person up there every week. Don't gv him the satisfaction. There's another club up the road from him. The Leeson's Land, Diamond Hill Farm, Roundwood: East Coast Shooting Club Formally (F.S.C.). Your buy in is €300.;) For that u get a Shotgun Range, Rifle Range and a Pistol Range. And very friendly members. And yes Hilltop is a €600 buy in. And every time u visit u pay range fees and paper targets. And now a €50 deposit to shoot on the pistol range. Wot a jip. Last time i'll ever go there. :mad:

Samson

annoymous wrote:

And now a €50 deposit to shoot on the pistol range.

When was that introduced?
I was up there shooting a couple of weeks ago (on a Wednesday evening), and there was no "deposit" required.

sidneyreilly

I use Hilltop an awful lot and know Pat well. It should be pointed out that Pat can be extremley busy, it would be a better idea to ring in advance and check a suitable time for a tour and no, he does not suffer fools or tyre kickers, he gets a lot of odd yokes walkin in off the street so he is very wary.

The €50 deposit was introduced to stop people shooting the timberwork covering the target mechanisms and roof beams in the pistol range.

If he knows you shoot straight he dosnt require it (he knows you Samson), an awfull lot of damage has been done to the timbers,mechanism etc. in the past.

Vegeta

sidneyreilly wrote:

The €50 deposit was introduced to stop people shooting the timberwork covering the target mechanisms and roof beams in the pistol range.

If he knows you shoot straight he dosnt require it (he knows you Samson), an awfull laot of damage has been done to the timbers,mechanism etc. in the past.

I do not know Pat nor have i ever been to this range so i will not comment on a man i have never met but at any club surely your membership should be covering this type of wear and tear.

sidneyreilly

To be honest vegeta. the target area is a large board which can be moved form out to twenty meters all the way in to the firing point.
Even a novice should not (and do not) miss these.
When the no shoot areas are hit it's because of (usually) people rapid-firing pistols and generally messing or accedental discharges. NONE of these things should happen.

Anonymous, cant help wondering, did you hit the no-shoots? was at a competition yesterday and someone had riddled one of them since last Wednesday?

thelurcher

Is the earlier comment true - that you can't bring your own cartridges??????
Is that common practice around the country?

... maybe people are shooting up the place because they have no respect for the guy.
There's obviously an 'in-crowd' that get treated right - but is he pissing off new members ... - then in come a new batch paying 600 :rolleyes:


edited to remove comment as below - sparks

sidneyreilly

Nver heard of the ammunition thing I think non-members pay a flat fee for clay shooting which includes ammo and clays though.

I think ... is a bit much when you have never encountered someone?

edited to remove comment as below - sparks

Sparks

sidneyreilly wrote:

I think ... is a bit much when you have never encountered someone?

Agreed. Relating something you've experienced yourself is one thing; comments like that are another (specifically, they're called libel).

For that reason, I'm editing both posts to remove the comment.

packas

All,

I've been at Hilltop twice. First time was at the FLAG shoot. I was very impressed with the whole facility. I had never met Pat before that day. To be honest with my impression was that's he's up front and honest with you. He doesn't give you the salesman bull. He's straight up.Membership is €600 initially but I think only €150 per year after that. To me that seems fair. There's a lot of people out there only wishing to join clubs to get pistol licences. The membership fee weeds these people out. I've no problem with that.

The second time I was up there was to do some practical pistol. As a non member of the club I paid my fee. €20 I think it was. I shot my own ammo but I could have purchased from Pat.

In general the Hilltop club is a great facilitiy & the shooting community should support it and other clubs around the country. It's tough enough us having to battle the government over our shooting rights without all us shooters having a go at each other as well.

I live in south Wexford & would love to have a facility like this close to home. Give the place & owner a break. We need these places as much as they need us.

Sparks

We need these places as much as they need us.

I'd agree with that statement in it's entirety.
By which I mean that both clauses have equal importance.

Rew

Its worth noting that Pat's ammo prices are very good. I buy ammo there even if im not shooting there.

fathersymes

If Pat had been pleasant, helpful and not rude. He would now have another member. He should have known by my terminology and shooting speak that I was not a 'tyre kicker'. As for the 600euro joining fee, this has no relation to a previous posters reference to a 2,500 golf club fee, As a golf club would have an investment of many millions and vastly larger running costs. Yes it may deter casual shooters but it also detered me, a genuine shooter who has a lot of other club membership fees, deer leases etc. to pay.

I will not listen to any defense of rude and beligerent customer service, it is simply not acceptable if you are running any type of business, full stop.

civdef

The damage to target holders and other range infrastructure is something nearly all clubs suffer from, never underestimate the stuipidity of others.

MRC used to allow non-members shoot the fulllbore range, but stopped this due to damage being caused.

sidneyreilly

civdef wrote:

The damage to target holders and other range infrastructure is something nearly all clubs suffer from, never underestimate the stuipidity of others.

Indeed. Funny how it's "the more experienced" that seem to be the culprits and not the interested novice?

Sparks

sidneyreilly wrote:

Indeed. Funny how it's "the more experienced" that seem to be the culprits and not the interested novice?

The learner driver syndrome I would suspect.

sidneyreilly

sidneyreilly wrote:

Anonymous, cant help wondering, did you hit the no-shoots? was at a competition yesterday and someone had riddled one of them since last Wednesday?

Just been inform that it was indeed annoymous that caused the damage I saw yesterday and that he is the only shooter out of all who shoot there to have incurred the penalty.

Further more he was refused memebership in Hilltop in the past and the only reason he was allowed shoot since was on strict terms.

It is one thing to miss the paper but quite another to miss the whole board entirely several times. This is not safe shooting.

Vegeta

sidneyreilly wrote:

Just been inform that it was indeed annoymous that caused the damage I saw yesterday and that he is the only shooter out of all who shoot there to have incurred the penalty.

Further more he was refused memebership in Hilltop in the past and the only reason he was allowed shoot since was on strict terms.

It is one thing to miss the paper but quite another to miss the whole board entirely several times. This is not safe shooting.

how do you know it was him. Is "annoymous" his first name or something

sidneyreilly

Only one person was EVER asked for €50!

Sparks

sidneyreilly wrote:

Only one person was EVER asked for €50!

Who checked the standard of his/her shooting before turning him/her loose on a range?

Vegeta

sidneyreilly wrote:

Only one person was EVER asked for €50!

EDIT: I am stating this as I see it, again i don't know the owners or the range and have nothing against the place.

So damage to the range equipment occurs pretty often yet this guy is the only guy to have ever been charged. Sounds a bit unfair really

sidneyreilly

Dont know Sparks!

Vegeta, by coincidence no one else has been consistantly hitting off the board since introduction!

thelurcher

packas: why do you think it's alright to screw new members
Seriously - why should that guy give a damn if they join just to get a pistol license
We have a few members of the local gun club and the clay club that never shot a pheasant or clay for years - they're the best members to have and we all know it - they help out when asked - pay their membership - and leave all the birds for us.

Everyone seems to charge a bit extra for new members for admin costs etc. :rolleyes: but 150 v's 600 is stone mad.

Also anyone shooting dangerously in the clubs I go to would be out on their ear (even if it meant refunding their membership) - it wouldn't be used as a way to make more money out of them :rolleyes:

And again I've never heard of not being allowed bring your own ammo to a club.

Sparks

sidneyreilly wrote:

Dont know Sparks!

But there is a supervision or qualification scheme before you get turned loose in the range, right?

moby10

i was so infuriated by hilltop sports that i had to reply. i am shooting about 10 years or so and over the time been a member of various clubs. after moving to wicklow i joined hilltop, and i have to say that he was certainly very ignorant when i first met him(not good for business but i did not know of anywhere else so i joined up). i then bought a new shotgun off him and he didnt give me anything for a trade-fair enough it was a piece of s***, but he did agree a couple of hundred of certridges, but denied this when i collected the gun.(another bad business decision). as a member i was supposed to get a discount when i shot clays on non club days which i didnt, so after this i left.i run a successful business myself and all i can say is that he anything but a good business man, he probably thinks he was clever charging me more than a couple of hundred euros more than the rrp of my new gun and not giving me the cartridges he agreed as a trade and even overcharging me for the clay shooting, but he has just lost yet again another customer, and i am not alone. i could tell you so much more from friends experiences and friends of friends.his wife was an absolute gem- very friendly and i met one or two sons who were also very nice. i do understand that he is very busy with other things but it is no excuse to carry on like this.finally i recently bought a new rifle in courtlough and all i can say is that they were absolutely fantastic, and have guaranteed repeat business from me even though its a good hour and a half away.

Rew

thelurcher wrote:

Seriously - why should that guy give a damn if they join just to get a pistol license
We have a few members of the local gun club and the clay club that never shot a pheasant or clay for years - they're the best members to have and we all know it - they help out when asked - pay their membership - and leave all the birds for us.

You dont see a problem with sombody joining a club just to get a gun licence? and then never tuning up If there not coming to the club and using the firearm there where are they using it? If they have some where else to legally use it then why would they need a club?

If I didnt turn up to my club regulalrly they would contact my Super and inform him of it and thats made very clear when you join. Under the new laws my licences could be revoked.

Any irresponsible behaviour of clubs will lead to problems for all of us.

FlyOver

In fairness the "facilities" in Hilltop are less than appropriate, especially for a fee of €600. I don't care what anyone says, €600 is way too much for what you're being offered.

In regards to the mechanism being damaged by people shooting at it I mean come on! You're on a shooting range for **** sake! never heard anything so stupid.

The customer service is crap because you're basically shooting in this guys personal shooting range, it's his, he built the thing, so no wonder he's going to get ratty with someone he doesn't know or a shooter ends up putting holes in the fixtures and fittings. As a business this is unacceptable.

I always do my best to support shooting in this country but I find it hard to support Hilltop and what they are trying to achieve there when the "facilities" are way below standard and customer service is something that has to be earned. That is not the way forward.

Bananaman

Have just been reading this post and said I would throw in my two cents worth.

As a virgin to shooting I attended a Competition in Hilltop a couple of months ago.
It was a bit nuts on the day but I had a good time so I went back.

I suppose I would fall into the category someone called an interested novice.

As such I have found Pat very helpful. I agree he has a few rough edges but haven't we all. Lets face if it's not a Tupperware party you're going to.

My experience has been that as I was learning to shoot the various disciplines he generally kept an eye and gave me some pointers as to what to do which has made me a better shot. I could come out with some rubbish about a shotgun suiting me or the sights being off on a rifle - not beng able to find my arse with both hands in this area and he would tell me as much - "Who taught you to shoot you feckless eejit" I beieve was the phrase - but he was right.

Nuf said.

Sparks

FlyOver wrote:

In regards to the mechanism being damaged by people shooting at it I mean come on! You're on a shooting range for **** sake! never heard anything so stupid.

To be fair, while you wouldn't expect people to put every round through the ten ring, you would rather expect them to be able to keep every shot on the target card at least. There will always be the odd shot that doesn't stay on the card, but you don't expect more than a handful of those in an entire year. Someone who can't keep the shots on the card should not be shooting unsupervised, and possibly shouldn't be shooting fullbore or smallbore pistol at all, but moved to air pistol to work on the basics for a while.

FlyOver

Bananaman wrote:

"Who taught you to shoot you feckless eejit" I beieve was the phrase

Nuf said.

Yes, very professional.

Try Midlands or Courtlough gun clubs and you'll see a world of difference in every respect.

Sparks

Bananaman wrote:

Lets face if it's not a Tupperware party you're going to.

I wouldn't think much of this attitude to be frank. Unless you want a sport made up entirely of old men watching their sport die out in their lifetimes, you pretty much can't take that attitude. Joe and Jane Public do not know about our sport, or the rewards it brings us. Until they learn that, the sport has to be inviting and polished. Look at the success of ranges like Courtlough and Comber. Being pretty isn't something to decry in a shooting range; it's what will ensure the range's survival. You want (and I'm not describing Hilltop here, but other ranges I've been on) tough conditions, no sanitary facilities, cold and wet firing points, outdated and unmaintained target changers and equipment, a large insect population, a general feeling of rattiness and the joy of recounting all this to your mates in the pub afterwards, well, so be it. But not many beginners will pay out hundreds of euros a year for this privilege, and assuming they will is going to lead to a rather suboptimal outcome for your range and the sport in general.

edit: For just a moment, forget all you know of shooting. Every last bit. Or even better, grab someone who knows nothing about it. Then ask, which of these two looks the more inviting?
This:


or this:


Not much in the way of an actual choice for a prospective newbie, is there? And that's a hundred euro or more per year (and another shooter, more importantly) lost because of a cosmetic detail overlooked.

civdef

In regards to the mechanism being damaged by people shooting at it I mean come on! You're on a shooting range for **** sake! never heard anything so stupid.

When you get people deliberately destroying the target holders, or shooting up backstop retaining walls for a laugh, you have a problem, and the shooters in question have a bad attitude. It gets people kicked out of ranges, and it means more restrictions on ranges for everyone else.

It's the same sort of idiot who shoots at signposts.

Vegeta

Bananaman wrote:

I could come out with some rubbish about a shotgun suiting me or the sights being off on a rifle - not beng able to find my arse with both hands in this area and he would tell me as much - "Who taught you to shoot you feckless eejit" I beieve was the phrase - but he was right.

Nuf said.

just on a completely different topic here

There's a big difference between shooting with sh1te equipment and using it as an excuse and shooting with suited equipment and using it as an excuse.

any gun that doesn't fit the user or a gun which isn't zeroed are definite reasons why people shoot poorly.

you wouldn't play hurling with a 24" hurley, play soccer or football with boots 3 sizes too small. So if anyone tells you that you should be able to use any off the shelf shotgun and be accurate with it they are wrong.

thelurcher

Rew wrote:

You dont see a problem with sombody joining a club just to get a gun licence? and then never tuning up If there not coming to the club and using the firearm there where are they using it? If they have some where else to legally use it then why would they need a club?

If I didnt turn up to my club regulalrly they would contact my Super and inform him of it and thats made very clear when you join. Under the new laws my licences could be revoked.

Any irresponsible behaviour of clubs will lead to problems for all of us.

Still doesn't justify ripping them off in the first year - that's my point.

I know a few people that joined a pistol range just to get a license for one as that's what everyone was saying you had to do - they wanted the gun to use for humane dispatch.
That was NOT the case - since then I know lads that got a 9mm purely for that purpose - the gun dealer wouldn't give them the pistols when they came with their license because they weren't a member of his club :rolleyes:
They weren't long sorting him out

Sparks

thelurcher wrote:

Still doesn't justify ripping them off in the first year - that's my point.

Lots of different sports clubs have higher charges in the beginning though. It's not just the dues you're paying, but capitation as well. Mind you, most clubs request capitation in the first few years, instead of being mandatorily for the first year, and most have trial periods of membership for the curious as opposed to depending on the committed. But it's not necessarily a rip-off, is the point.

They weren't long sorting him out

What do you mean by "sort him out"?

thelurcher

They kicked him around the shop :rolleyes:

They got the super on to him.

Sparks

thelurcher wrote:

They got the super on to him.

Thanks lurcher. I was asking because that situation - pay dealer for the gun, get licence, dealer refuses to hand over the gun - might have come up before for others...

conce452

I have shot in Hilltop sevral times. In general I have found Pat to be a pleasent man, but his prices vary alot. The lighting on the pistol range is very bad. In general the standard of the ranges is very poor. I have shot on ranges in many other countries and seen far higher standards and better value.

It is cheaper for 99 % of people not to be a member and just pay each time you shoot there. (€20 each time for non members for as long as you like). His price on ammo is generally good.

People have to realise that he is running a commercial venture so expect his prices to be higher. Pat should realise that when people pay that sort of money they expect top class facalities, not something that looks that amatureish.

Can people who have not completed the IPSA competition licence and safety course shooting Pat's practical course?

I think if Pat uses his head and invests some money into the club he could do very, very well. I know alot of experienced shooters who are concerened.

Chopperdog

Can people who have not completed the IPSA competition licence and safety course shooting Pat's practical course?

I should hope not... (This applies to all ranges, not pointing at Hilltop alone)

If so it is permitting people to move and fire fullbore pistols in a populous environment without any trianing or drilling in the 'What to do if' scenarios.

Regardless of that, how sure are you of the experience of the shooter and his level of gun control and safety consciousness?

The thought of this is making my head spin.

Is this not one of the silliest ventures imaginable.eg

Hello Mr, unexperienced and untrained pistol shooter, would you like to run around this range with a fully loaded fullbore pistol while we all stand around and have a look.

If this is so, it makes a mockery of those of us who have undergone training to make this sport safer for all concerned.:mad: