Motorway speedlimit?

JesusWasGay

Do you think there should be no speed limit on Irish motorways?

We mgiht have to look into the future a bit when there are longer motorways.

I was caught speeding on the Mullingar by-pass (which is a national primary route but built to motorway standards) doing 83mph when the speed limit was 60mph.

The Garda jumped from behind a sign and flagged me in. It was dangerous what he did. I had to slam on incase I'd hit him.

Then he said to me that that was the most blatant piece of driving ever. I should have told him to go f*ck himself, but obviously I wouldn't.

I think 83mph is a comfortable speed, even 90mph is nice. What is the problem (besides Gardai jumping out from behind signposts)?

I think on regional roads and secondary roads, a speed limit of about 45mph/50mph is safe.

PS, I only drive fast on motorways.

Redrocket

i was driving into mullingar the other day(it was the weekend of hifi, loads of traffic) in a line of traffic doing 80 in the right hand lane, and maybe 65-70 on the left, the guards were stopped there and i think if they had tried to stop anyone, they would have cause a pile up.

for the motorway having a speedlimit of 120, in the dry you can go faster safely, but in the wet maybe not.
are there any other countries with wet and dry speed limits?

JesusWasGay

stevenk wrote:

i was driving into mullingar the other day(it was the weekend of hifi, loads of traffic) in a line of traffic doing 80 in the right hand lane, and maybe 65-70 on the left, the guards were stopped there and i think if they had tried to stop anyone, they would have cause a pile up.

for the motorway having a speedlimit of 120, in the dry you can go faster safely, but in the wet maybe not.
are there any other countries with wet and dry speed limits?

France has a wet and dry speed limit. I think the dry speed limit is 130kph and the wet is 110kph.

I think Gardai stopping people on roads built for speed should be stopped.

For examply, in the UK, they have cameras on the motorways and they use the chevron system to keep cars apart so that they can take pictures of the licence plates. This is a good idea.

But...on the new part of the M7 that by-passes Monasterevin, they built these special lay-bys for the Gardai so that they can catch people speeding manually. This is dangerous and wrong.

Cameras are safe and they work 24hrs per day.

But getting back to my point, I think the speed limits on motorways should be increased.

PS, the Gardai like doing speed checks on dual-carriage ways because:
1. it produces good results consistently for those seeking to be promoted; and
2. the commissioner wants them to be "seen".

nordydan

Re: you getting caught: Tough ****.
Re: questioning the sexual orientation of the son of God: we'll all find out one day! He certainly was a good dresser.

But you have a point, there is not reason why 130km/hr limits could not be applied. People generally do 125-130km/hr on the motorways (the M1) anyway and it has never seemed to fast in my opinion, more like the norm.

JesusWasGay

nordydan wrote:

Re: questioning the sexual orientation of the son of God: we'll all find out one day! He certainly was a good dresser.

Not every mention of the name Jesus is actually referring about Jesus Christ.

How do you know how Jesus Christ dessed?

westtip

JesusWasGay wrote:

Do you think there should be no speed limit on Irish motorways?

I was caught speeding on the Mullingar by-pass (which is a national primary route but built to motorway standards) doing 83mph when the speed limit was 60mph.

The Garda jumped from behind a sign and flagged me in. It was dangerous what he did. I had to slam on incase I'd hit him.

Then he said to me that that was the most blatant piece of driving ever. I should have told him to go f*ck himself, but obviously I wouldn't.

.

there should be a speed limit but it should be policed sensibly. If you were driving down the Mullingar bypass at 83 mph in good conditions then the Garda shoudl have taken this into consideration, perhaps pulled you and said just calm down, if it was bad conditions then yes he should pull you and ticket you. Further up the N4 there is the stretch past Boyle (Carrick to Castlebaldwin) which is a notorious area for getting pulled. Fortunately most drivers on this road know the ropes and always warn on coming cars with the flash of lights if the boys in blue are out. There is one stretch on this road just before Boyle When you can see the wide open often empty road ahead of you. On a dry sunny day you could cruise along at 85 mph quite safely and the Bas***ds will still be pulling. It just pi**es everyone off, but they have their quotas to meet. I thought the Garda were stopping this jumping out from behind a tree routine. My wife got pulled one saturday morning on the Athlone by-pass doing about 70 - the Garda asked for her name so she asked for his name and asked him why they weren't setting up speed checks on the old Galway road in Baylough which is now a residential area and drivers used to fly through it - he said because it is easier to get speedsters on the by-pass - a bit dim to have admitted this, so my wife said she would write to the Garda commissioner if he gave her a ticket - based on what he had said - he let her off.

Not sure what you should have said to this garda but I think you chose the wise option.

Lennoxschips

a 120 km/hr speed limit is fine, i think, and will lead to less traffic jams. (if more people are doing a uniform speed then it will lead to less bottle-necks) it's also better for the environment than faster limits. and of course it's also safer.

why would anyone want to go faster besides the thrill factor? seems like a very self-centred reason to raise a limit

The Garda jumped from behind a sign and flagged me in. It was dangerous what he did. I had to slam on incase I'd hit him.

you had to slam on the brakes because you were driving too fast. what if it wasn't a garda but a deer, or a car that suddenly changed lanes? you'd have to slam on the brakes then too. that's why there are speed limits.

seriously, it's your fault

nordydan

Lennoxschips wrote:

why would anyone want to go faster besides the thrill factor? seems like a very self-centred reason to raise a limit

probably because they would like to get to a specific location in less time if road design means it is safe. It has little to do with the thrill factor (well for me anyway).

Chris_533976

Germany has no speed limits on about 2/3 of the Autobahn. Its excellent. You can go whatever speed you want without worrying about being caught. They recommend you do about 130kmh though, there is an insurance clause that says you can go as fast as you like (up to about 300kmh, above that you need special tyres), but if you are involved in an accident above a certain speed you'll lose some of the claim, EVEN IF THE ACCIDENT IS NOT YOUR FAULT.

But there can be very few curves on the autobahn due to the speed. Also, very small climbing gradients. And you need far, far more maintenance than you ever get here. No more of the never-repair-the-crash-barriers-just-put-bollards-there-for-two-years mentality that you get here.

Yes, new roads should be 120kmh, possibly 150. But no higher, it wouldnt be safe.

Also, the traffic training in Germany involves plenty of lessons, including special Autobahn lessons, before the test. The system would need to be overhauled here to do that.

Theres a Megastructures program on National Geographic occasionally about the Autobahn. Might want to check it out, goes into great detail



Although no, despite the fact that the 60mph speed limit is silly, you were going 83mph and got caught, so I have no sympathy I'm afraid

ircoha

If you were done for 83mph in recent times then the signage and the Guard and u are all for the birds.

In realtion to the speedlimit, as oil pushes 100 a barrel the DOE are looking at dropping the limits to save fuel

OP: have you considered that your username might be offensive to a large section of the community?

nordydan

ircoha wrote:

OP: have you considered that your username might be offensive to a large section of the community?

Apparently its not Jesus Christ but some Spanish lad called Jesus he picked up when he was cruising down on George's Street last night!

trillianv

After the recent reports on the amount of road deaths that have occured in Ireland since the beginning of the year, I am surprised that people really think we should be going any faster. I know most of the accidents are on N & R roads not motorways, but just because they are newer roads does not make them any safer. Animals jumping in front of cars can kill especially while going 120 km/h.

As for the gardai pulling you over on the motorway, I think they should be pulling more people over. I have often been on the M1 going the speed limit and had cars go flying past me obviously doing well over 140-150 km/h. This is dangerous and stupid and NO I am not an old lady I am 26 but drive sensibly and cautiously as I value my life and others.

If you were speeding you deserve the fine and points.

mikedragon32

If we had 3 lane motorways that were longer than 100km then there might be a case for no limits on them, but you have to factor in that there are an awful lot of fcukers out there who can't even use a two lane motorway presently, so what would they be like on a three lane road?

No sympathy for you getting caught. In your PS you say you only drive fast on the motorway, but you told us you were caught speeding on a national road.... Mmmm.

kippy

Take your medicine-you were well over the limit and your arguments are a bit on the daft side.
If you only drive fast on Motorways-then keep driving fast to motorways-as you admit yourself, this is not a motorway and for valid reasons.
As mentioned above the reason you had to slam on was that you were going 23mph over the speed limit-what if this had be a farmyard animal, or a child walking along the road who "jumped out in front of you"

You may think that road is built to "Motorway standards" but, just because there are two dual lane roads does not always mean it is built to motorway standards.
You may have noticed that on this section of road there are a number of places to cross from one carriageway into another, and that some junctions into the carriageways are "T" junctions, ie not slipway type junctions that are needed for motorway standards (I think)- There is also a garage and a restuarant built on the side of the carriageways.
All of these features are the reason this is not class as a motorway and why it is deemed not safe to drive at a speed faster than 100kph.
If there were more people out there who obeyed the existing laws on ALL of our countries roads there would be less accidents-not just fatal ones.

Calina

JesusWasGay wrote:

Do you think there should be no speed limit on Irish motorways?

We mgiht have to look into the future a bit when there are longer motorways.

I was caught speeding on the Mullingar by-pass (which is a national primary route but built to motorway standards) doing 83mph when the speed limit was 60mph.

The Garda jumped from behind a sign and flagged me in. It was dangerous what he did. I had to slam on incase I'd hit him.

Then he said to me that that was the most blatant piece of driving ever. I should have told him to go f*ck himself, but obviously I wouldn't.

I think 83mph is a comfortable speed, even 90mph is nice. What is the problem (besides Gardai jumping out from behind signposts)?

I think on regional roads and secondary roads, a speed limit of about 45mph/50mph is safe.

PS, I only drive fast on motorways.

I feel there is a case for raising motorway speed limits to 130 while also applying a wet weather speed limit of 110.

As for you looking for sympathy doing approx 135kph on a national primary route where the speed limit is 100 kph, personally I would tell you to get lost. You know the rules. You broke them. It's absolutely typical of people in this country to try and abdicate responsibility for stuff when they get caught.

The problem is people's reaction times to hazards. By the sounds of things you're not exactly on top of that idea.

But for what it's worth I think speed checking should be absolutely blatant because it might have a better chance of achieving its objectives then.

murphaph

I believe the Mullingar Bypass (not the low standard dualled section just east of it!) is built to motoray spec and could easily support a higher limit, HOWEVER the limit is 100 atm, and a key point missed so far is that because this is the limit then the other road users could reasonably expect traffic to stick to this speed and would not expect something flying up behind them if they are travelling at the limit. This expectation is not there on the derestricted sections of Autobahn where motorists actually expect a fast car 'up their arse' and are watching for it. Our motorways are generally built to a higher spec than many Autobahnen anyway. You find LILO junctions with very short acceleration and deceleration lanes on derestricted sections of Autobahn!

trurl

Imagine you're a boss at the gardaí

1. there is a burglary, and your garda has no chance to find the person who did it.
2. there are statistics
3. send out a patrol car to the nearest now-so-wet not-so-windy place, get everybody fined who does 101 km/h in the 100 km/h limit zone
4. write a report that your stations efficiency is 90% (means 1 burglar is free, but 9 other criminals are punished)
5. lean back, and if you don't have any spare shotgun to plant somewhere as an evidence, just collect the bribe from your "business associates".

mikedragon32

trurl wrote:

Imagine you're a boss at the gardaí

1. there is a burglary, and your garda has no chance to find the person who did it.
2. there are statistics
3. send out a patrol car to the nearest now-so-wet not-so-windy place, get everybody fined who does 101 km/h in the 100 km/h limit zone
4. write a report that your stations efficiency is 90% (means 1 burglar is free, but 9 other criminals are punished)
5. lean back, and if you don't have any spare shotgun to plant somewhere as an evidence, just collect the bribe from your "business associates".

Apart from being highly illogical, what is the point of that post?

trurl

mikedragon32 wrote:

Apart from being highly illogical, what is the point of that post?

the reason why gardaí are doing speed checks in places where it's all about revenue, nothing to do with accident prevention

Ham'nd'egger

trurl wrote:

the reason why gardaí are doing speed checks in places where it's all about revenue, nothing to do with accident prevention

But if the speed limit is broken, the limit is broken full stop.

If there is a spot where it is "easier" to catch speeders, one can make it out as being a soft spot, but the other way at looking at it is that it is a spot where it is easier for a motorist to break the law. In the same way, you can say that it is easier to shoplift in a Spar than say, A Wear so thieves in Spar are easier targets as it's more tempting to nab there, but it doesn't make it any more right wherever you break the law.

And to be fair, I don't see any of the advocators of higher limits on some roads wanting limits on some N roads which are narrow being lowered, why I will never know :rolleyes:

Rudolph Claus

And to be fair, I don't see any of the advocators of higher limits on some roads wanting limits on some N roads which are narrow being lowered, why I will never know

Because if we lower them any more we might aswell travel them roads by horseback. You sound like a right drip by the way regarding your spar theft association with going a little over the limit whilst still being safe. Its a well known fact the gardai are afraid of work and doing pointless spped checks on safe roads is nicer than cathing skangers robbing the local spar.

Dundalk Online

Speed... Limit? WTF is that?!?!

Seriously, the speed limits are there for a reason but some of the limits are just ridiculous.... The eastern by-pass in Dundalk has a 50kph limit, 2 roundabouts and 5 lights... Its a hell of a bypass!!! Back to the subject though... Gardaí love to make it seem like they protect and serve, whereas they just make up the numbers....

Ham'nd'egger

Nuttzy wrote:

Because if we lower them any more we might aswell travel them roads by horseback. You sound like a right drip by the way regarding your spar theft association with going a little over the limit whilst still being safe. Its a well known fact the gardai are afraid of work and doing pointless spped checks on safe roads is nicer than cathing skangers robbing the local spar.

I don't really know what motor you drive nor most users here, but what is safe in my car for me under certain conditions is by no means safe to every car. Would you drive a FIAT Punto at 120Kmph and consider it as safe as say, an SUV or a BMW? Or a laden Ford Transit? Or a car winding around a curve on a wet Sunday night heading home? And have all drivers the same level of skill? We sure as hell know that there is some woeful drivers out there, many of whom will have full licences so that can't be a given to let full licenced drivers extra Kmhs. Oh, and somebody said the other day, somebody said, putting the foot down wastes fuel for the sake of getting there 5 minutes earier.

Certainly, I like to think that yeah, my car is fit and able to do over 100Kmh on some stretches of road, but who decides where these road are, and to what cars? Will we let taxis an extra 20kmh as they are working, or Merc drivers as they are loaded and probably have VHI if they crash, or little boy racers in Honda Civics and decrepid aging Lancers so they impress the chicks?

The limits that are on roads are not just plucked out of thin air, they are internationally accepted and adhered safe limits for ALL motorists, regardless of what car they drive.

BTW If your pissed off with hidden speed checks, then it goes without saying, don't be speeding, or at least, don't be caught lol

jd

Nuttzy wrote:

Because if we lower them any more we might aswell travel them roads by horseback. You sound like a right drip by the way regarding your spar theft association with going a little over the limit whilst still being safe. Its a well known fact the gardai are afraid of work and doing pointless spped checks on safe roads is nicer than cathing skangers robbing the local spar.

Drive around some of the "N" roads in the West and you might reconsider.
Here is a "good" stretch of the N67

eth0_

JesusWasGay wrote:

Do you think there should be no speed limit on Irish motorways?

HELL no. The majority of drivers here can barely handle driving on the motorways as it is, without letting them put their foot to the floor.

The standard of driving in Ireland is way too poor to have no speedlimits or 'autobahn' type roads.

hargo

Does anyone really believe that speed limits and enforcment of them has anything to do with road safety? The M50 around Sandyford has a speed limit of 100kph and is probably the quietest part of it. The road between Balbriggan and Skerries has the same speed limit and a trench going most of the road that your wheels get caught in and you can easily loose control. We all know of similar roads i am sure. Now driving at the speed limit on the Skerries Rd is a lot more dangerous than driving on the M50 at 130kph.
The facts are that we have Goverments here who do not spend adequate money building and maintaining our road structure, who have never put in place a structure to train our drivers and ensure that they have an adequate licence without having to wait a year to be tested.
I personnally believe that i spend enough of my money on taxes directly as a result of driving and tolls to have decent roads to drive on safely and at a reasonable speed. Instead i have to sit behind the guy doing 60 in a 100 or 100 in a 120 on the overtaking lane because i cannot overtake.

corktina

doesnt matter what you are driving, if you have an emergency, say,a blowout, the result will be the same and the faster you are travelling, the more dangerous it will be...

..speed limits are not a target and anyone is entitled to drive at whatever speed they like ,up to that limit, infuriating as it may be...(although I would hope that they would be courteous enough to move over when possible (a forlorn hope usually.)

As for enforcement, I would like to see (impossible as it would seem:) )more unmarked cars, targetting dangerous drivers rather than speed traps on stretches of road where a couple of km/h over the limit is not particularly dangerous.

the real problem in this country is the woeful standards of drivers ability and the 400,000 unqualified drivers.

Rudolph Claus

jd wrote:

Drive around some of the "N" roads in the West and you might reconsider.
Here is a "good" stretch of the N67

I always have to laugh when people make a retarded point of lowering a MAX LIMIT on not so good stretches. Have they no common sense to realise its a LIMIT, you dont have to do the limit if the condiitions dont allow. Do you want the government to signpost different speeds for millions of different sections along the same road.

FFs, use your common sense when on them roads. Thats the trouble these days, people have no common sense have to be told everything is basic english.

jd

Nuttzy wrote:

I always have to laugh when people make a retarded point of lowering a MAX LIMIT on not so good stretches. Have they no common sense to realise its a LIMIT, you dont have to do the limit if the condiitions dont allow. Do you want the government to signpost different speeds for millions of different sections along the same road.

FFs, use your common sense when on them roads. Thats the trouble these days, people have no common sense have to be told everything is basic english.

The problem is people don't have common sense, so roads like the n67 would be better off with a limit of 80.
Than you for your comments, Ross O' Carroll-Culchie-Cousin
jd

loyatemu

Nuttzy wrote:

I always have to laugh when people make a retarded point of lowering a MAX LIMIT on not so good stretches. Have they no common sense to realise its a LIMIT, you dont have to do the limit if the condiitions dont allow. Do you want the government to signpost different speeds for millions of different sections along the same road.

by that logic why not give every road a limit of 120km/h and let people decide for themselves. Yeah, there's no point changing the limit every mile, but if you have 10 miles of bad windy road, then the limit should reflect that.

joe_elway

Nuttzy wrote:

Do you want the government to signpost different speeds for millions of different sections along the same road.

That's what I've seen when in the US. The limit might be 55mph on a highway but when a dangerous bend/bends come along it then decreases, from anything form 25-45. And if a wide open stretch comes along it even increases up to 65.

I see myself as being middle of the road (pardon the pun). I like to drive fast in places (motorway and wide open roads) and I know I need to drive slow in others (lanes, built up areas, all the usual suspects).

We currently have a system where we have national roads being considered the same as lanes. My family home is on one of these lanes and a headline making "suspected" (and facing charges) killer drink/driver races along it at 50mph on a road wide enough for one car with blind bends. This is a scenerio where custom limits would really be relvant.

Speed limits.... they are nuts and so is the policing. You've got the N11 that is as safe as houses and has what I refer to as "mobile toll booths" dotted in Dundrum, Loughlinstown and the Arklow Bypass. Irish motorways are the safest roads in the country (and I think in Europe) and where are the cops? ... they're on their custom build mounds looking for speeders on the M-way at rush hour.

I'd prefer to see cops on the back roads at 02:00 looking for drivers when and where deaths actually happen. During the day... I want mobile policing looking for idiot drivers who drive on the wrong side of the road (whether it be hitting the the apex on a blind turn because it's too much work to turn the wheel or in the wrong lane on the m-way/dual carriage way) or driving like an idiot, on the phone, braking lights, stopping in yellow boxes, etc. Just how many of those offences does a speed trap prevent?

This has been said over and over and promised over and over but the cops never do it. We had the trnsport minister promise it again last week but he'll fianna fail to do that, just like every other politico.

And people who drive int he wrong lane !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But, I do have my own personal lane from Kildare to Dublin on the N7 now.... no one else wants to drive in the left lane. Am I undertaking... nope.... I'm in the lane and staying there, only pulling to the centre to overtake lorries/buses.

The only solution I see is you all choose me as dictactor. I'll sort things out then

carryboy

speed limits are fine.:cool: it only makes us a bit uncomfortable because we can't try the speed our cars offer..:D

darkflower

speed limits are fine. it only makes us a bit uncomfortable because we can't try the speed our cars offer..

right!fast car we buy yet there's no use of the speed it offers!

Zynks

A large share of Irish drivers don't have a clue about how to drive in motorways, can't handle a few drops of rain and are rather ignorant when someone draws attention to the fact that they are causing difficulties to other drivers (clogging fast lanes, stopping on yellow boxes, driving erratically while speaking on the phone, etc).

So, first issue to be addressed is driver education, and I think a campaign in the media is way overdue - and I am not referring to speed. Also, people caught making mistakes that are obvious lack of understanding of the rules of the road should be sent to compulsory driving lessons and re-examination. This would save far more lives than speed checking.

Second issue, national roads (except for recent motorways) here have to be some of the worst in Europe, and the road marking/signs are a total disaster. As an example, the south of Spain has secondary roads quite similar (designed by cows heading to the market maybe) to many Irish national roads, but they have excellent signs. It feels like driving in a rally, but with the best navigator in the world. If it says slow down, there is a real reason. If it says don't pass, you would be crazy if you did. I tested some of their roads following all the signs and driving right on the speed limit for each segment, and I got an amazing sense that I couldn't get there much faster, nor safer.

Action 2: Send road engineers, especially the ones responsible for markings and signs for a "crash" course in countries where they know how to do it. Then, redesign the whole setup on Irish national roads considering the real limitations and risks of each segment of the roads.

With a decent standard of driving, speed is not the main killer, but just accidents*. There is no point in saying that Germany has a lower ratio of accidents and deaths when the big thing is that they KNOW how to drive. Can we say the same about Irish drivers?

* Note that my interpretation of accident is "something which happens unexpectedly and unintentionally", but incompetence by the driver or road engineers doesn't fall into that category. That would be negligence.

Seth Brundle

stevenk wrote:

i was driving into mullingar the other day(it was the weekend of hifi, loads of traffic) in a line of traffic doing 80 in the right hand lane, and maybe 65-70 on the left, the guards were stopped there and i think if they had tried to stop anyone, they would have cause a pile up.

for the motorway having a speedlimit of 120, in the dry you can go faster safely, but in the wet maybe not.
are there any other countries with wet and dry speed limits?

Are you mixing miles and kilometres as your 1st paragraph suggests mph.
If the second paragraph is referring to 120mph then this is absurd. I have driven at this speed (and higher) on the continent. It is actually quite difficult as it requires huge amounts of concentration and a car that is in excellent condition.

corktina wrote:

doesnt matter what you are driving, if you have an emergency, say,a blowout, the result will be the same and the faster you are travelling, the more dangerous it will be...

With newer technologies such as run-flat tyres (RFTs), this is not an issue. A MINI was driven by Top Gear around a track with properly inflated RFTs and then punctured RFTs and the lap time wasn't that much different, nor was the cars handling.
However, with VRT etc. it may be some time before it becomes widespread here !:(

darkflower wrote:

right!fast car we buy yet there's no use of the speed it offers!

I drive my car on track a number of times a year. So having a car capable of high speeds is something I want.

impr0v

murphaph wrote:

I believe the Mullingar Bypass (not the low standard dualled section just east of it!) is built to motoray spec

It was built to 'high quality dual carriageway' specification which in many cases is motorway in all but name. Two of the significant reasons why it isn't motorway spec. have already been pointed out, namely the at-grade accesses to the petrol station and restaurant and also an at-grade access to the old N4 just west of the Roadhouse (formerly the Downs Inn) which is within the confines of the original Mullingar Bypass Scheme. There are others, such as the lack of emergency communications and the fact that the first bend on the bypass, heading westbound, is not up to motorway geometric standards, i.e. the curve radius is insufficiently large for a design speed of 120 kph.

You are essentially right however in saying that technically it is capable of sustaining a higher speed than 100 kph.

corktina

my car is 33 years old and proven capable of 135mph (paced by a M3 was that u kbannon? on the track and not driven by me). However good our roads become, there is no way I am driving it at anything like that speed NOT because of it's age or mechancal condition, but because of the ability (or lack of it) of other Iirsh drivers....400,000 of whom are unqualified and should not be on the road unaccompanied....

Seth Brundle

corktina wrote:

mpaced by a M3 was that u kbannon?

I wish!

Capt'n Midnight

JesusWasGay wrote:

Do you think there should be no speed limit on Irish motorways?

We mgiht have to look into the future a bit when there are longer motorways.

Because you need a longer gap between cars when you travel faster a speed of 40mph is optimal for traffic volume, When traffic is light far too many drivers hog the overtaking lane or travel at 40mph in the inside lane forcing frequent overtaking, to allow some one travelling at very high speed to do so safely.

In France there are variable speed limits on Motorways, dpending on conditions like rain. ( eg: the limit should be 40mph during rush hour ) http://www.met.ie/climate/rainfall.asp

How Often Does it Rain?
The general impression is that it rains quite a lot of the time in Ireland but in fact two out of three hourly observations will not report any measurable rainfall. The average number of wet days (days with more than 1mm of rain) ranges from about 150 days a year along the east and south-east coasts, to about 225 days a year in parts of the west.

so if we follow the French system then you half the time you use a lower speed limit.

On the M50 one christmas morning it was frosty, 24 accidents, the point here being the later drivers presumably saw at least one previous accident and didn't slow down. Just unreal if you think about it.

Most Irish drivers consider themselves to be above average drivers. Now consider the quality of driving visible to them as the use Irish roads !

Far too many Irish drivers are not capable of using our existing motorways at present to even consider it. When our motorways are cleared of L-drivers, people doing 40mph on clear sections, stuff with trailers going way over 50mph, large numbers who change lane without indicating then you can begin to consider it. People hogging the overtaking lane etc.
I've driven on UK motorways and the M50 scares me far more.

If it can be shown that Irish motorists are using motorways correctly then I still would not let someone who passed an Irish test full speed.
So if we were to go no limit like on SOME German motorways then we use similar systems.
- only cars allowed to go fast, no vans , no commercial vehicles even if based on a car
- only drivers who have done a full driving test over several days including a night driving session , and where failing a test three times means you have to visit a physichatrist before you are allowed to sit one again.

And then there is the question of wear and tear and increased carbon emissions.

How long does it take to slow down when you are doing 150mph ?
If someone doing 50mph is overtaking a tractor one mile ahead are you safe ?
( the person doing 50 will pull out because you are too far away for them to judge your speed, if they even bother )

Bottom line almost all accidents are caused by driver error, and the faster you go the less chance you have of compensating.

Stark

If someone was to come along one day and bomb the length of the M50 killing everyone, we could easily improve the average standard of driving in the country I reckon

Was driving behind someone at speed in the overtaking lane the other day when he jammed on the brakes and came to a complete stop before slipping back between cars in the slow lane. Thank god I was keeping a reasonably safe distance with noone behind me. Though I think in future I'll be leaving even more of a gap, I don't think my heart could take that again.

Lennoxschips

Do you want the government to signpost different speeds for millions of different sections along the same road.

well, yes, that's the government's job

they do it in most western countries i've been in

Bill Andrex

Roads have speed limits on them for engineering reasons, motorways in general have design speed of 120Km (hence the speed limit), speeds may be lowered in the case of sharp bends etc or when the sight distance is less than optimal over crests etc.

Each road will have an upper design speed limit too and more often than not our road fatality statistics show those people who were killed for excessive speed and exceeding these limits.

Seth Brundle

Bill Andrex wrote:

Roads have speed limits on them for engineering reasons, motorways in general have design speed of 120Km (hence the speed limit), speeds may be lowered in the case of sharp bends etc or when the sight distance is less than optimal over crests etc.

Each road will have an upper design speed limit too and more often than not our road fatality statistics show those people who were killed for excessive speed and exceeding these limits.

Thats a very misleading generalisation.
Explain the speed limit on the N32 for example. This is engineered to take higher speeds. It has a lower speed so that it holds more traffic.
You are not factoring in roads that are replaced by motorway (such as the old N4). Purely because they were downgraded to an R road they have an 80km/hr limit. Prior to their downgrading they would have been entitled to up to 100km/hr.
What about some of our back roads where driving at 30, 40 or 50km/hr is not safe yet they have a limit of 80km/hr?
Speed limits are also in place for other factors, not just engineeering. The location and proximity to schools, etc. are factored in.
If speed limits were engineering based, then speed limits would be reduced at dangerous bends. Instead we have a lazy approach of displaying an old orange sign in the hope that the driver monitors all the signage at the side of our roads.

Ham'nd'egger

kbannon wrote:

Thats a very misleading generalisation.
Explain the speed limit on the N32 for example. This is engineered to take higher speeds. It has a lower speed so that it holds more traffic.
You are not factoring in roads that are replaced by motorway (such as the old N4). Purely because they were downgraded to an R road they have an 80km/hr limit. Prior to their downgrading they would have been entitled to up to 100km/hr.
What about some of our back roads where driving at 30, 40 or 50km/hr is not safe yet they have a limit of 80km/hr?
Speed limits are also in place for other factors, not just engineeering. The location and proximity to schools, etc. are factored in.
If speed limits were engineering based, then speed limits would be reduced at dangerous bends. Instead we have a lazy approach of displaying an old orange sign in the hope that the driver monitors all the signage at the side of our roads.

No, it's not misleading, it's engineering practice to have set limits on roads based on road sight, slope, curves etc etc. Certainly there is roads that have limits that are too high but in this case, why not bring it to the attention of the Road Saftey officer in your local council or the Raod Safety Authority. There is many places in Ireland that have additional limits set on roads to allow for bad curves, though these tend to be set after accidents take place.

The N 32 is a road in an built up area with several itinerant camps and a bus lane on both sides, this may be why it has a 60kmh limit attached to it. That said, there is still crashes on it so perhaps it needs to be brought down to 50Kmh

Calina

Hamndegger wrote:

The N 32 is a road in an built up area with several itinerant camps and a bus lane on both sides, this may be why it has a 60kmh limit attached to it. That said, there is still crashes on it so perhaps it needs to be brought down to 50Kmh

I drive the N32 on a regular basis. Very, very few people adhere to the 60kmh speed limit. Perhaps if they did, the accident rate would fall. But if they don't stick to the 60kph limit, I can't see them sticking to a 50kph limit without a load of enforcement, and that would cause whinging along the lines of "they should be out policing blah blah blah because the N32 is a straight road and all the accidents happen in backroads down the country". Apparently.

Seth Brundle

I meant that it was misleading to state that "Roads have speed limits on them for engineering reasons" alone - I should have been clearer.
Your reasoning for the N32's limits of ininerants doesn't quite stand when you consider many roads that have an 80km limit despite having close proximity housing along them, or even (illegal?) itinerant camps!
The bus lane shouldn't even be there so I won't accept that reason.

Ham'nd'egger

kbannon wrote:

I meant that it was misleading to state that "Roads have speed limits on them for engineering reasons" alone - I should have been clearer.
Your reasoning for the N32's limits of ininerants doesn't quite stand when you consider many roads that have an 80km limit despite having close proximity housing along them, or even (illegal?) itinerant camps!
The bus lane shouldn't even be there so I won't accept that reason.

KB, it is more the fact that the road is in a "built up area" that dictates the limit on it. I agree, many roads over Ireland have houses on them but not slpa bang in Urbania. I can't think of few roads in built up Dublin that have higher speed limits, Tallaght bypass from Tymon Roundabout to Jobstown, N3 at the racecourse and N 11 from Cournelscourt to M 11, and that's it.

And as a by though, the halting sites on the road are legal sites.

Solair

I would just like to bring up the point that the Gardai are doing some really crazy things on motorways. I don't think they're getting adequate training about how to pull cars over etc.

On at least two occasions I have had to swirve because a garda car was stopped in a lane without flashing lights at the end of an "on ramp" / slip way.
i.e. you go onto the slipway accellerating and do not expect to see some eegit doing a tax / insurance inspection just as you hit 60+ mph on a corner.

Likewise, I've seen a few unmarked garda cars recently going at huge speed with sirons and no flashing lights. This in my opinion is potentially leathal.

Victor

Presence of known risks (schools, houses, junctions) are part of the engineering assessment.

kbannon wrote:

If speed limits were engineering based, then speed limits would be reduced at dangerous bends. Instead we have a lazy approach of displaying an old orange sign in the hope that the driver monitors all the signage at the side of our roads.

Speed limits are not appropriate to individual bends (they might be to a series of bends). That yellow sign with the curvy arrow means "Bend ahead. Slow the f*** down."