Opinions on The Law degree at Trinity

Earth,Calling

Hi there,

I'm sure you are going to be barraged with these sorts of questions during the days ahead, but here goes...

The Leaving Cert results were out yesterday in case you didn't hear about it . My first choice is pure Law in Trinity. By some error on behalf of a spate of drunken examiners, and assuming that the CAO doesn't find out, it looks as though I might get a place.
The thing is, I also have an offer from a good UK university for a very well regarded Law degree, but considering how much of a self-confessed Mammy's boy I am, and that I only ever really want to work in Ireland, should I just take the Trinity course?

How well regarded is the course in academic terms? I know that it's Trinity College, and has lots of pretty buildings and gaunt, tobbacco-rolling PhDs sporting black wooly jumpers and grasping an obligatory copy of Heidegger's Gelassenheit, but that doesn't say much for how good it really is. Does such a thing as a league table of law faculties exist?
My brother's girlfriend is doing law in UCD and she advised me to put Trinity down first. Not the most considered decision, I know. I should point out that I'm interested in using the degree hopefully with a view to legal practice as opposed to another related industry.

Also, how hard is it to switch to Law and German, and is there much time for making that decision after registration? What are your opinions of the course in general, is it considered tough, interesting, competitive, friendly etc?

Thirdfox

Law and German usually has a lower point requirement than pure law - hence it shouldn't be too much of a problem to switch. Lots of my friends study L&G (I study pure law) and it seems that some want to switch to straight law next year.

I do not know of a league table for law degrees... but on the King's Inns list of acceptance of law degrees Trinity was first...Portobello last - doesn't mean anything of course - in fact I think most of the Supreme Court judges are from UCD,D! Also most of today's bigwig judges etc. didn't study law but English or History etc. We do have some of the people who write the authoritive texts on sections of the law in Ireland e.g. Gerard Hogan and Gerry Whyte - in respect to Constitutional law, William Binchy in regards to Torts etc.

I've been told (not trying to libel anyone/establishment) that TCD, UCD,D and UCC are held in pretty much the same light. Law, being one of the last bastions of old-school chumminess seems to place a tiny bit of emphasis on which university you came from.

If you don't mind, could you tell us which English university offered you a place? I know of a friend that turned down LSE to come study here! "Either Cambridge or Trinity" she said :eek: .

We have a four year term, in UCD,D it's four years (optional) so comparatively you have less classes (meaning more time in the library/pub). 12 hours a week (including seminars) is what I had this year.

To answer your quick fire questions:
Tough? - As one lecturer put it "You'd have to try hard to fail." But remember since law is essentially an essay based examination say goodbye to 80%+ marks - top class students get around 72%. I only got a 2.1 this year

Interesting? - Do you like to find out how justice in Ireland/Europe works? (Or doesn't...like in a recent Constitutional challenge case...)

Competitive? - Welcome to the joys of book hiding/hunting in the library (it's an artform)... seriously though there is a nice communal spirit about the class (circa. 110 - including law and languages students).

Friendly? - I'd like to think so! We even have a staff/student cabaret night, don't think that's done anywhere else.

Hopefully that'll go some way to answering your questions.

Law: 1, 2, 3.

Law & German: 1, 2.

Earth,Calling

Oh sorry didn't realise that, I'll just sift through those then.

Thanks for the insight Thirdfox, I'm just glad to hear it isn't a total wreck of a degree. I was getting paranoid not having really spoken to anyone who knows the course, and just basing my information on the prospectus and website, which only ever tell you the nice things.
My offer is from Jesus College, Cambridge. I think it's going to kill me to decline it, but I'm not sure I can justify it either, given that I can get to Trinity in 15 Dublin minutes and still have time to look oppressed outside the arts block.

Endymion

Earth,Calling wrote:

Oh sorry didn't realise that, I'll just sift through those then.

Thanks for the insight Thirdfox, I'm just glad to hear it isn't a total wreck of a degree. I was getting paranoid not having really spoken to anyone who knows the course, and just basing my information on the prospectus and website, which only ever tell you the nice things.
My offer is from Jesus College, Cambridge. I think it's going to kill me to decline it, but I'm not sure I can justify it either, given that I can get to Trinity in 15 Dublin minutes and still have time to look oppressed outside the arts block.

While I know nothing about law, in general you primary degree can just be a start. There will be little stoping you doing a post grade in cambridge. That said, if you actually plan to work in ireland using your degree, surely an Irish law degree is what you want, though, as said, I know nothing about the course.

Earth,Calling

Earth,Calling wrote:

Oh sorry didn't realise that, I'll just sift through those then.

No problem!

the smiley one

Thirdfox wrote:

Lots of my friends study L&G (I study pure law) and it seems that some want to switch to straight law next year.

Just to clear something up IN PUBLIC. No one is switching from LG to pure Law this year, merely because of the fantabulousness of the course and the people

Thirdfox

the smiley one wrote:

Just to clear something up IN PUBLIC. No one is switching from LG to pure Law this year, merely because of the fantabulousness of the course and the people

Lol - please don't sue! Congrats on getting the award for your exam results! Nice to hear that everyone has decided to stick with the course.

Earth: Personally, if I got an offer from Cambridge, I would take it. While the law in England is different to that of Ireland (but not as different as say French/Irish law) there are plenty of opportunities to study in Irish law afterwards.

Maybe I'm being too proud, but I think that the law students in Trinity are among the brightest in Ireland (maybe myself as the only exception!) But to go to Cambridge - you will be among the brightest minds in the world. I'm sure that the teaching standard will be higher there (I am just stating my belief... of course I want Trinity to be better!)

And if you do want to work/study elsewhere I dare say that a Cambridge degree will be more impressive than a Trinity one. (Having said that there is an opportunity to transfer your Trinity degree into an Oxford one... not sure of the procedures and if it applies to law too). Maybe Myth/xeducat/Danger Bob knows the info.

I really enjoyed my first year studying law in Trinity. But I most certainly would also have enjoyed a year in Cambridge. It's all up to you man (some people would kill to be in your position )

And if you do go to Trinity...have a lookout for me in second year (I'm taking a year off to go to Beijing Uni to study law there, coming back in second year).

Johnee

Trinity students from the law course regularly top score in the masters courses in Cambridge and Oxford (even students who get 2:1s in Trinity tend to get firsts in Cambridge and Oxford) so I'd take Thirdfox's comment about the brightest minds in the world with a large enough pinch of salt. :rolleyes:

You'll do well in either place. The one to one in Cambridge is better (and Jesus is ok as colleges there go) but the academic standards are much the same. Similarly, Cambridge is better regarded internationally but not signficantly so. People abroad tend to think of Trinity generally (wrongly to be honest) as the Irish equivalent of Oxford and Cambridge, especially in the States.

One thing though - if you do want to work in Ireland, you're probably better doing law here and doing a masters in England if you want it. The grounding you get in constitutional is too important to miss, especially if you ever want to work at the bar.

But otherwise, it should be a personal rather than an academic decision. Where would you most like to spend the next 3/4 years?

Thirdfox

Nice to hear that... but surely the standard of teaching at Cambridge/Oxford/Harvard etc. are much better than the one in Trinity (I'd be happy if it wasn't!)

World rankings of univerisities (which have their problems of course) rank Oxbridge in the top ten... Trinity comes in at 118th (ahead of the Sorbonne ) Then again I don't know specifically of any law school ranking system in the world.

I thought Cambridge doesn't allow you to take a part time job during the holidays or something (to show how committed you must be to studying)...

I'm happy with Trinity anyway

BusyBee33

Earth Calling - it is a brave man who would turn down a Cambridge offer. I have just failed to fulfil my own offer, despite getting 3 As and a B at A level and it has been a traumatic two days!!

However, if you can get over thinking about all the hype (which is probably more prevalent in the UK than it is in Ireland) and the "world class brand" that Cambridge is and just concentrate on thinking about what will make you happy for the next few years then you are more likely to make a good decision.

My position now mirrors yours - I am thinking about doing law at Trinity and not keen to leave my family behind in the UK (although it is not a great distance, it can take absolute ages to get from Dublin to London if there are problems at airports etc).

Good luck!

dermot_sheehan

The question is fundamentally do you want to practice law in Ireland? If you want to be a barrister you need to do an irish degree to qualify for the inns. For a solcitor you only need a degree so you could go down this route if you want to come home.

An Oxbridge BA in Law would be good if you want to work in the UK or if you want to go into academia. You could always however (provided you get an overall 1st) do the BCL/LLM postgrad.