Martial Arts Literature.

Miles Long

Hey People,

I was wondering what people though on about studying and training in MA from a book/ video as opposed to in a club/gym/...? Is the end justified by the means? I'm not questioning which is better, everyone thier own, but I'm more wondering have people experience in "book training" or both and what are the pros and cons they found themselves, that made it harder or easier to study without direct feedback?

This is just born out of a lot of mentioning of books and videos around the forum and I just thought a bit of chat on it would enlighten me and others as to the nature of this way of training?

Thanks,

Wowi!

Roper

I use BJJ instructionals quite a bit (DVD's) on account of the fact that I can't train with my coach too much. I think you'll probably find a lot of guys do likewise.

The thing about them is that you have to have somebody to go practise on right away, or work through it together, otherwise its fairly pointless. It'll just be another technique you know but can't use.

Im2Lazy

I think they do have there place, as you can get some new ideas on techniques or concepts to add to your training.

But I still think you need to be trying to apply the new trechnique/concept you're trying to learn in the club/gym...

Baggio...

Hullo!

Training from books is really hard because you never seem to get the nuances of the techniques. That said something like “Dead or Alive” by G. Thompson is a great book, again it's introducing you to concepts that you can incorporate into your training regardless of the style.

DVDs are better in one way - because you get to see the full technique in motion. I always feel that they are better for “self protection” training as they add concepts as well as techniques. Generally these techs are less convoluted and simpler as opposed to the more complex TMA stuff. Which of course makes the self protection stuff easier to learn.

I see loads of on-line Black Belt DVD courses these days – I personally don't think you can get a black belt from crap like that ($$$$). You gotta get yourself down to a Dojo or train privately. You gotta make sure your stuff will work.;)

Basically books and DVDs should be used to enhance your training as opposed to becoming your training.

Just my 2 cents,

R.

Budo.Judo.Kev

I simply don't have the ability to train well from DVDs and Books directly. I can't pick them up without drilling stuff over and over again. I'm very slow to take to new stuff. Friends of mine can be looking at techniques on the internet, come into class later that day and start doing them. I just don't think i have the brain for it I always get things upside down and stuff.

However, I'll look through a book, or a DVD and I'll bring the idea to training and I'll ask people to help me make it work. This is better for me.

Miles Long

Time is a harsh mistress and hence I can do all of the MA that I was and get through my final year. I wanna find a good book on BJJ anyway just to read, for the info as much as the techniques. Any ideas?

Kev,
Yeah, I know what you mean, I reckon I'd prefer the there and then training cause I tend to ask questions and a book (obviously) can't answer them, you know when your coach says "Well maybe if you try it this way" and it just clicks. I'd like to think it's like anything you stick at, you'll attain your way of interpeting and developing with the resources you're given, but my gut feeling is that it would be a pretty abstract way of training.

Clive

Miles Long wrote:

I wanna find a good book on BJJ anyway just to read, for the info as much as the techniques. Any ideas?

Mastering Jiu Jistu by Renzo Gracie is probably the best all around BJJ book I've seen, especially for background and general ideas.

Budo.Judo.Kev

Hey Miles,

Do you have any obligation to your TKD club? Are you like an important member of the club? An administrative officer?

Miles Long

Kev wrote:

Hey Miles,

Do you have any obligation to your TKD club? Are you like an important member of the club? An administrative officer?

He he,

Yeah, I do organising bits with my instructor, he started the club when we were in 1st year and I've been there since so I know the way it operates, important is such a strong word. There are really three or four of us that sort out all of the main runnings of the club, we just help each other out to keep it running smoothly. By college "law" a club has to elect a committee like a Chair, a Treasurer, Secretery, PRO, 1st year Rep. and some other ones I can't remember. It's like groundhog day sometimes, with new members coming and going that need suits and association forms (and to learn Chon Ji). Since last year, one of our high Reds graduated and now I'm the third highest belt in the place. My main obligation is that our club rocks with great people around me, but from the running it off the matt perspective, yeah I feel obliged to help out at every turn. Y, your welcome to my position if you want it?

Clive wrote:

Mastering Jiu Jistu by Renzo Gracie is probably the best all around BJJ book I've seen, especially for background and general ideas.

Thanks man I'll check it out. *gives Clive two thumbs up*

Budo.Judo.Kev

I was just going to tell you to quit doing it if you're stuck for time and focus on BJJ. CONTRAVIRSIAL.

we had the same problem with our judo club so our judo club became a completely unoffical unafiliated Judo/BJJ/MMA club:).

Miles Long

I'm just using the time that I'm not training in TKD to broaden my horizans. I'm not even remotely thinking of leaving the TKD behind. You're a bad man playing devils advocate, :mad: , I wanna find out peoples views on the OP to get a feel for that training.

I'll pick up book on anything I'm interested in to find out more and BJJ is no different. That Renzo Gracie book seems to have hit the nail on the head if you read about it (good one Clive) the other one I saw was this anyone?

Clive

The other book (theory and technique) has a lot more techniques, but Mastering jiu jitsu has a much better section on history, development etc of bjj and MMA. It also has good case studies to show how different fighters utilise their skills.

Probably the best book for pure techniques in Extreme Jiu Jitsu by Eddie Bravo, but the introduction is poor.

I have copies of all of these if you want to have a read through them, just give me a shout.

Roper

Yeah I used to try to convince myself too, until I was seduced by the dark side...

Clive,
Is that Eddie Bravo book up for loan in the Clive-library?:)

Clive

Roper wrote:

Is that Eddie Bravo book up for loan in the Clive-library?:)

LOL, I prefer the term Clivebrary, but I'll try and drop it down before your kids class tomorrow (it is 6 isn't it?) - I'll be on my way into town anyway.

Tim_Murphy

Roper, I should have a copy of JiuJitsu Unleashed by Eddie Bravo around somewhere, PM if you want it.

I was wondering what people though on about studying and training in MA from a book/ video as opposed to in a club/gym/...?

You are much better off going to an actual coach is you can but all is not lost. Back in the day I learned a lot of the fundamentals from Matt Thorntons FJKD series 2 DVDs, I'd recommend them. Twas nearly as good as having somebody actually teach us the stuff!

Roper

Clive wrote:

LOL, I prefer the term Clivebrary, but I'll try and drop it down before your kids class tomorrow (it is 6 isn't it?) - I'll be on my way into town anyway.

Clive, you're a gent. I was trying to combine the words Clive and library for ages and I couldn't come up with anything good. The best I got was Cliverary.

Miles Long

First of all... Clivebrary ... that is hilarious man.

I'll have a flick through the ones that have been mentioned and any others that seem to suit my desire. I'm as much looking to learn from them as just read 'em, like a normal book, cause if anything the techniques are interesting to decipher. You know where the forces and weight distributions are. I hold the same inquizativeness about the Judo throws too.

I've been usurped to the loan of the book! Meh, it was always my intention to buy one anyway. I've heard on many people offering to give gradings to people who have trained purely from books and DVD's (He Ill Cho for one). I don't see this working at all, maybe for TMA patterns but not whole curriculums!

Ger Healy

Tim_Murphy
Roper, I should have a copy of JiuJitsu Unleashed by Eddie Bravo around somewhere, PM if you want it.

Tim any chance i might get a loan of that book?
Pretty please

Millionaire

Tim_Murphy wrote:

Roper, I should have a copy of JiuJitsu Unleashed by Eddie Bravo around somewhere, PM if you want it.

You are much better off going to an actual coach is you can but all is not lost. Back in the day I learned a lot of the fundamentals from Matt Thorntons FJKD series 2 DVDs, I'd recommend them. Twas nearly as good as having somebody actually teach us the stuff!

I bought that Eddie Bravo book too. I find it very hard to follow. Probably a DVD would be better for me to get the basics down.

Did Matt Thornton sell a Boxing DVD by some old guy, famous boxing trainer. I used to see it in BB mag. I would like to get a copy but cannot find reference to it.

So that FJKD is good? I might buy that too!

Roper

Millionaire wrote:

I bought that Eddie Bravo book too. I find it very hard to follow. Probably a DVD would be better for me to get the basics down.

Did Matt Thornton sell a Boxing DVD by some old guy, famous boxing trainer. I used to see it in BB mag. I would like to get a copy but cannot find reference to it.

So that FJKD is good? I might buy that too!

Don Familton was the name of the boxing coach. Don't know how good it is. I think someone gave me a copy on a disk but I'm fvcked if I know where it is now!

Tim_Murphy

I bought that Eddie Bravo book too. I find it very hard to follow. Probably a DVD would be better for me to get the basics down.

The bravo book wouldn't really be a good one for beginners IMO, more aimed at people who have a game already and want to add some new things. The matt thornton DVDs are ideal for begineers IMO or anyone wanting to improve on the fundamentals really. The focus on the skills involved rather than just showing loads of techniques.

Scramble

I just ordered the original three-disc Crazy Monkey series from http://www.mikesmmavideos.com . They list the Don Familton series as well, FYI Millionaire.

I used to buy MA books, but I've gone off them. I don't believe you can get technique or practical ability from a book, so I'm only really interested in them for the historical or factual information they contain. And it seems like nowadays a lot of the most interesting stuff is being written day-to-day on the internet (ongoing interviews, fighters talking about the way they train, experiences etc.).

I still buy a good few DVDs, although mainly instructional ones instead of fight DVDs. My taste remains quite dodgy, though. For every solid intelligent purchase I make, I also take a risk on something unusual, and end up with crap I'll only watch one.

Miles Long

Scramble wrote:

I don't believe you can get technique or practical ability from a book, so I'm only really interested in them for the historical or factual information they contain

This was one of the things that I figured one would be up against when using a book to train. A book about a particular MA would be excellent if you wanted to know it's A-Z history. I was always sceptical of looking at a book and if you don't get what is written / pictured in front of you that's it for that section cause that's all you have to work with.

Roper

IMO, pretty much as Tim said, the minimum you need is a training partner who you can go over stuff with and roll with. If you have somewhere to start, like a few weeks/months of coaching behind you in the fundamentals then it makes it easier.

Books are great and all, but theres enough sub-wrestling and BJJ out there now, particularly in Dublin, that nobody should have to go down that road again.

Anyway you're mad to come train at K.O. we all know it. You want the t-shirt, the hoody, the cool training music, the feeling of being slightly superior to everyone else, the secret handshake... did you even know there was a secret handshake? Well there is, and there's a yearly bloodletting festival where we sacrifice a calf...:D

Seriously though, if you really want to do something then its a matter of prioritising isn't it? College>TKD>BJJ>Drinking, or TKD>College>BJJ or whatever.

Budo.Judo.Kev

Well it should be GF>College>Training but it may be Training>GF>College :eek: :eek: :eek:

By the way, just found a video of my new idol. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9172309068519365318&q=Jacare&hl=en

Miles Long

Roper wrote:

IMO, pretty much as Tim said, the minimum you need is a training partner who you can go over stuff with and roll with. If you have somewhere to start, like a few weeks/months of coaching behind you in the fundamentals then it makes it easier.

Books are great and all, but theres enough sub-wrestling and BJJ out there now, particularly in Dublin, that nobody should have to go down that road again.

Anyway you're mad to come train at K.O. we all know it. You want the t-shirt, the hoody, the cool training music, the feeling of being slightly superior to everyone else, the secret handshake... did you even know there was a secret handshake? Well there is, and there's a yearly bloodletting festival where we sacrifice a calf...:D

Seriously though, if you really want to do something then its a matter of prioritising isn't it? College>TKD>BJJ>Drinking, or TKD>College>BJJ or whatever.

K,
Drinking > where ever that takes me > hospital...

I just confirmed our Training times for DCU, thank god! Roper, 1) you just reminded me that we have to sort out our hoodies and t-shirt for the coming year, seriously. It's shallow but your club is nobody in DCU til you've a hoody and crap. This Rory and KO thing is getting old man, I don't have the hours in the week to be going down the four different nights a week road, I would but... Hence the books to read them in my spare time and utilise that reading when I get a chance (ideally that is but hey)

Gotta go study, exam in less than 22hrs!

Roper

Miles Long wrote:

This Rory and KO thing is getting old man, I don't have the hours in the week to be going down the four different nights a week road,

Don't flatter yourself Rory, I am mocking you;) Hence the smiley faces. I think we'll get on fine without you.:rolleyes:

Roper

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

By the way, just found a video of my new idol. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9172309068519365318&q=Jacare&hl=en

I just watched that and tonight, I am going to attempt that trip-into-knee-bar combo! Quality vid!

Miles Long

Roper wrote:

Don't flatter yourself Rory, I am mocking you;) Hence the smiley faces. I think we'll get on fine without you.:rolleyes:

Yeah, I know. But if no-one else on here is going to flatter me *pops coller*... .

Did you see Stuart Anslow wrote a TKD book (for those who care). I know nothing about it's content really but the reviews seem pretty good (mind you they are all picked on the site) It seems it goes into a alot of different aspects of TKD in depth. I wonder...Miht be worth a read.

Roper

Its an in depth look into the patterns? Think maybe I'll pass... Still, if patterns are what floats yer boat, I'm sure its a good book. I've debated with Stuart quite a bit and he seems to know his stuff and has a passion for the TKD.

Still, can't see that being posted in his reviews page!^

Tim_Murphy

Did you see Stuart Anslow wrote a TKD book (for those who care). I know nothing about it's content really but the reviews seem pretty good (mind you they are all picked on the site) It seems it goes into a alot of different aspects of TKD in depth. I wonder...Miht be worth a read.

I've talked to Stuart a good bit about this and other stuff, I wouldn't really hold out much hope for this book TBH.

Some of the stuff he was saying sounded ok, but then I saw a video of a grading he conducted for red belts. Same old TKD problems

Miles Long

Tim_Murphy wrote:

I've talked to Stuart a good bit about this and other stuff, I wouldn't really hold out much hope for this book TBH.

Some of the stuff he was saying sounded ok, but then I saw a video of a grading he conducted for red belts.

That's wierd the 2nd bit you posted was only there when I quoted it... Anyway, I tried the whole looking back at the writings about the origins of TKD and stuff before, it just bored the f*** outta me with all the different contributions to it and all. I suppose a more high level way of talking about it would be good for me. Techniques of TKD books with a bit of Backround would be a cool, useless trivia like Bill Clinton has a BB or something.

I think I'll write a book full of good hard techniques and semsationalist BS!

Tim wrote:

Same old TKD problems

Let's leave that be, I don't want to know.

Miles Long

Millionaire mentioned on another thread that the Eddie Bravo book was pretty tough for a beginner. The point being that what I'm looking for is a beginners book not one that build on your existing knowledge, cause I have none. I don't get the impression (I might be wrong) that the few mentioned are intermediate to advanced BJJ. No really my kettle of hammers. I'm looking for a book that deals with fundamentals and says stuff like, This is what you're doing, this is it broken down, this is why you're doing it and this is where to next.

Too much to ask? The idiots guide to BJJ?

I find that in MA you can spar/ roll all you like but if there is no explaination for something then it's a wasted opportunity to learn. i.e. you'd never know that unless you were told, but once you are...

Budo.Judo.Kev

Conor what's the name of that book with Henzo and Hoyler on the front that american guy wrote? That's a good starting point. I think someone posted it in pdf format too before!

Miles Long

As a pdf, that'd be cool, and free!

Roper

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

Conor what's the name of that book with Henzo and Hoyler on the front that american guy wrote? That's a good starting point. I think someone posted it in pdf format too before!

Kid Peligro? I think he cowrites all of that stuff for the gracies.

Anyway Miles, when you do get a book, try to get a like minded training partner, otherwise it'll just be a read for you, and you'd be better off with a Stephen King novel if you wanted something rivetting...

Budo.Judo.Kev

ok i found the pdf on my harddrive but it's 35megs and I don't really want to upload it right now. It's called BJJ Theory and Technique Renzo and Royler Gracie (ebook). Have a snoop for it and if you can't find it I'll upload it for you

Miles Long

Uh nope,

I ain't finding it anywhere man. Uh, mind you I'm only googling in the hope that it'll just jump out at me. Anyone know where I could find it before Kev goes and bothers uploading it?

Dyr

let's do some voodoo cpr on this thread...

saw this badboy in a book shop at the weekend, asking price was way to steep, but the sheer kitsch value makes it tempting..

Roper

I'd sat there's pussy galore in that book...








Rubbish, absolutely rubbish Barry...

Clive

LOL. As a side note I've ordered Eddie Bravo's new book, so I'll give you guys a full review when I get it.