I don't like children

shoegirl

I know this sounds like the statement of some kind of ogre, certainly one friend with whom I had a blazing row over the weekend seems to think so.

But basically what it boils down to is as simple as that - I don't like children. I'm not interested in them, they don't excite me, they don't cause my heart to flutter. Don't get me wrong - I don't HATE children (though my friend thinks I do) - I just have no interest in them, no desire whatsoever to have them, and don't particularly want them around me.

I have met lots of children that I liked, but I've also met loads who really annoyed me - I find the domaince of 40-year-old-yuppie-dwarves masquerading as small children bordering on repulsive - the kids who basically talk and behave like mini-adults and eschew childlike interests in favour of adult ones. For example the kids who insist on dressing like miniature chavs and don't know a single children's song but can sing along to the latest sexist rapper in perfect time, watch only "adult" TV and films etc. To me they are as nauseating as the adults that they ape. And secondly the kids who just have no boundaries whatsoever (which is totally the opposite to the way I was brought up - not so much the school of children-should-be-seen-and-not-heard but that adults-are-to-be-shown-respect). The parents who bring up kids to become mini-adults and have no respect for those who actually are adults have earned my absolute contempt and disgust. (Strange thing is that at the same time I know adults who I don't like as people whom I would admit are probably some of the best parents I've ever come accross, who have some of the nicest, most normal, childlike kids around!)

Since I was a child I KNEW I'd never have children, never had the slightest instinct whatsoever. I'm now in my mid-30s and as repulsed by the idea as ever. When I said to a friend a few years ago that at 30 I didn't have the slightest twinge of body-clock related broodiness she suggested that for most women it doesn't really start until a year or two later. Well so much for that theiry, because I'm as disinterested in having children at 34 as I was beforehand, and I doubt it will ever change. I do have one friend who feels exactly like I do - its funny but we don't need to explain our feelings to each other - she just understands as I do, that its just not for us.

The thing is, my other friend aside from thinking that I'm some kind of bigot for not wanting kids (and not really liking kids much - though to be honest, I just don't like raucous, spoilt and ruined kids - its a real delight when I come accross a real child who is unspoilt and doesn't try to be an adult - they are really great) is trying to convince me that there is something wrong with me, and that I really should be having counselling to "cure" me of my "problem." The reality is that I just avoid kids and people with unpleasant kids (for example if I go to my gym and there are kids playing in the adult area of the swimming pool I just go to the gym and bypass the swimming pool) and won't ever have any myself.

What is extremely hurtful though is her judgement not only of me but assumptions about my past. I spent about 6 years working as a teacher in various schools (which I think to be honest put to death any of the romantic notions or generalisations about kids that so many women had) and for most of the time loved it. She has decided that I must have been a really bad teacher as I "hate children" so much. Actually I was happy enough for most of it, and despite the fact that some of the kids were pretty wild didn't have any problems there (I was to be honest, a lot luckier than most of the teachers I taught with, for some reason the kids seemed to respect me, moreso than my predescessors).

So what do you guys make of all this? I am seriously thinking of just letting this friendship flutter into the dust, because really my friend is making judgements about me based on her own prejudices, and some of them are very hurtful indeed.

damien

Why does your friend want you to like kids so much and to have kids of your own? Seems like that's the question. I know a good few women who don't want kids at all and these days there's less of a stigma to declare you don't want kids.

Interesting article here: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-barash10may10,0,7632432.story?track=mostviewed-homepage

samo

I'd agree - unless your being nasty to any kids that she might have I dont see what her problem is. Perhaps she's a little jealous of your lifestyle and it makes her feel better if she thinks your unfulfilled and pining for children.

I grew up an only child and coming from a one parent family wasnt really around anyone with younger children and I didnt have a burning desire to have children myself but now I have 3 kids, that said, I still find others peoples kids can sometimes be incredibly irritating. So dont assume that once you have your own children that an automatic love for all other kids comes with it!!

It really sounds like her problem more than yours so let her deal with it or else if its bugging you that much move on, as dont let her hang ups cause you grief.

Cabaal

If you don't want kids and don';t particularly like kids then how does this affect anyone else? Your friend sounds very judgmental, there's nothing wrong with you at all.

Jotter

It sounds like its your friend that has the problem not you! If you dont want kids than thats fair enough, wouldnt it be worse if you went off to have kids just to keep others happy, then what kind of a life would your children have!
I can totally relate to what youre saying about kids that become adults too quickly and how they can wreck your head. I know plently of kids like this and it drives me mad, I just want to slap the parents bec its their fault not the kids, yet I hate to see their kids coming bec theyre pains in the ass!!
Im saying all this and Im pregnant (awaiting delivery at this stage!) so its not just people who dont want kids that think this, Ive always wanted kids and get along with most that I come across theres just some, opinionated little grannys, that I prefer to avoid!

seamus

It's your mate who definitely has the problem. It's probably just a little bit of a shock to her - some people don't understand, or just don't realise that there are plenty of people who don't want children at all, for various reasons.

There are only two bits of advice I would give you:
1. Don't be a zealot about it (although I'm gathering you're not). Some people can be quite hostile when the idea of not wanting kids is brought up, and you'll be tempted to try and fight your corner. There's no winning. Agree to disagree, and walk away if they don't give up.
2. Don't do anything rash, like sterilisation. This course of action is probably a million miles from your mind, but there's nothing to say you won't want kids in the future. At this point in your life, you know you don't want kids, and that's fine. Who's to say you'll feel the same in five, ten or fifteen years? I've heard of plenty of anecdotal stories of women who were steadfast against kids, but then they hit their thirties and a "switch" goes, and suddenly they turn child-mad.

The Sweeper

I know someone who will basically move you off her Christmas card list if you have kids. She's in her early thirties. Yes, it's her right to not want children. No, it's not her right to not want anyone else to have children. People who really want kids often can't see what the point of life is if you don't have them, and that you're committing yourself to a joyless adult existence if you don't procreate.

People who don't want kids often can't see how anyone would give up their life to have kids, since your entire life changes completely and they just don't want that to happen.

It's very difficult to find middle ground people, especially as you get older.

Does your friend have kids herself?

Beruthiel

shoegirl wrote:

So what do you guys make of all this? I am seriously thinking of just letting this friendship flutter into the dust, because really my friend is making judgements about me based on her own prejudices, and some of them are very hurtful indeed.

I think you friend needs to mind her own business.
Who does she think she is? People who live by what they consider to be the 'normal way to do things' annoy the hell out of me, there is no such thing and you are the only one to choose what way to live your life, certainly not her.

I was never interested in kids or babies.
I did have one of my own (accident) Don't get me wrong, I love her to bits but I made absolutely sure I never had anymore. I am not one of those instintive women who it came naturally to. I never did understand that strong need in woman to have kids, I have never posessed it.

I really should be having counselling to "cure" me of my "problem

I sincerely hope you told whoever said that to fuk off, if not, go and do it!
I find that sort of comment highly insulting, like you don't know your own mind and there has to be something wrong with you for deciding on a different life choice to her and her cronies. How wonderful for her to have her life so sorted and to be so right in her choices. Ppfff
Drop her like a hot potatoe and find a friend who respects you and your life.

shoegirl

seamus wrote:

At this point in your life, you know you don't want kids, and that's fine. Who's to say you'll feel the same in five, ten or fifteen years? I've heard of plenty of anecdotal stories of women who were steadfast against kids, but then they hit their thirties and a "switch" goes, and suddenly they turn child-mad.

I'm 34. And not the slightest inclination. To be honest I think the whole "body clock" thing is societal pressure from a society that sees childless women as imperfect and "barren." (Strangely enough my friend actually used that word herself yesterday so I think there is a lot of this peer pressure getting to her if she's taking up phrases like this).

Sure I've heard the anecdotal stories of the poor childless souls who were suddenly struck by lightning at the age of 30, but I've yet to meet a single woman who evidenced this. All the women I know in their 30s who want children either already have one, or have wanted them all their lives.

I don't actually know anybody whose suddenly been struck down by a desire to want children simply because of the onset of the menopause within the next 15 years. I wonder how much of it is a backlash against reproductive politics? I hear women (including my friend) talking about a "right" to have children, not to mention all these women in the papers having IVF in their 50s and 60s.

Unfortunately I do think my case is not helped by people who don't want children for "selfish" reasons. Unfortunately nobody is equally critical of people who want to have children for a different set of selfish reasons.

Beruthiel

seamus wrote:

2. Don't do anything rash, like sterilisation. This course of action is probably a million miles from your mind, but there's nothing to say you won't want kids in the future.

When you know, you know seamus.
I always knew, I even knew when I was pregnant! And I certainly knew after giving birth lol
They won't tie your tubes in ireland till you hit 30, I went to the doctor the day of my 30th birthday and set that in motion. One of the best life decisions I ever made, very freeing, a weight off your sholders to know there's no chance of ever getting pregnant again.

chump

Maybe she says you might need "help" because you constantly turn your nose up at kids, or conversations about them.

Maybe you go on and on about disliking kids and not wanting to have them.

Maybe you sound like a broken record and you are obsessed with the notion of not having/liking kids.

Maybe children aren't your 'thing' and you let everyone know about it.

That would annoy the bejaysus out of me, if it twere the case.

layke

The fight against children, now that's a struggle i'd like to be a part of!

Well not really however i'm in the no kids boat myself, personally I just don't want them. TBh I have no interest in investing the time to raise them when I could be off traveling the world and enjoying life. It's not that I don't like kids I just don't want any of my own maybe it's because I spent a few years growing up in Tallaght and saw many many snot and jam encrusted children in my day.

Although when I told herself she was not a happy with me in the slightest. To this day she even brings the subject up in front of her friends for group bashing support as to why 'I should have kids'. Then ends up in a huff when I won't budge from my position. It's understandable and I think down the line were going to have problems but it's a bridge i'll cross when I get there.

Shoegirl as for your friend tell her simply, seriously and firmly "I don't want kids and the more you push me the more of a strain on our friendship. Knock it off!". Anyone who says that choosing not to have kids is selfish is, well, idiotic. We live in holy catholic Ireland where condoms are the devils tool and we all should bring as many kids into the world as possible regardless of being able to feed and cloth them. I think some of those teachings still exist in Ireland regardless of how unreligious people hve become.

AngryBadger

Is your friend the jealous type? Coud it be tha she resents your steadfastness on the issue of not having children because she feels it liberates you in some way?

Seeing as how some women seem to resent the "sacrifices" they bear to have kids and wich men don't have to, this doesn't seem like a crazy theory. I mean, other than some resentment on her part it's none of her bloody business if you want kids or not.

HashSlinging

Interesting.

OP, Why dont you first find someone that would like to have kids with you first, oh ya and then get married (You might be blacklisted if you dont)... on the other hand maybe your in denial, otherwise you wouldn’t be posting this on the internet in the first case.

Now I'm not going to try and convince you why children are amazing little things, you are now 34 years old and sound fairly educated, but let me enlighten you, as you grow older you grow more impatient, having children around will be more of a burden than a thrill, I look to my parents for inspiration. I wouldnt recommend it at certain ages, best thing you do is carry on living your selfish little life alone, or with another of the same mindset, watching eastenders, going to the gym, going on the beer at the weekends and travelling the globe. You might get sick of all that one day and decide what else is there to do and think "oh yeah kids" but by then you'll be pushing the big 40.

Beruthiel

HashSlinging wrote:

best thing you do is carry on living your selfish little life alone, or with another of the same mindset, watching eastenders, going to the gym, going on the beer at the weekends and travelling the globe. You might get sick of all that one day and decide what else is there to do and think "oh yeah kids" but by then you'll be pushing the big 40.

HashSlinging
Are you seriously trying to tell us that the decision to not have kids is a selfish act? That in order to stay off bordom one should have kids?
Not all of us are so unimaginative that we cannot find something else to do with our time, so much so that getting pregnant sounds like a good idea. :rolleyes:
Now that is a selfish act.

Are you trolling this forum, because that's a bannable offence in here. If you are not, then your bitterness is showing.

The Corinthian

shoegirl wrote:

I'm 34. And not the slightest inclination. To be honest I think the whole "body clock" thing is societal pressure from a society that sees childless women as imperfect and "barren."

Some people are very opinionated. The will have dogmatic views on children, sex or marriage, but will rarely be able to maintain a coherent argument for these views if challenged. Not that it will ever change their mind, of course, which is sometimes a pity.

(Strangely enough my friend actually used that word herself yesterday so I think there is a lot of this peer pressure getting to her if she's taking up phrases like this).

There are many possible reasons for this; two of the most common are a level of resentment (you are rejecting the thing that they desperately want) and tribalism (only mothers like her are normal). The wife of one of my friends is like the latter - quite unbearable.

HashSlinging

Bitter!! the op's title says "I dont like children!" She even avoids using the swimming pool when other people are using it with their children.

By all means live your life the way you seem fit but dont go around with your head in the sand either.

I object!

Gordon

HashSlinging wrote:

I object!

Objection noted, thanks.

layke

HashSlinging wrote:

Bitter!! the op's title says "I dont like children!" She even avoids using the swimming pool when other people are using it with their children.

But they pee in the pool!

Shoegirl is just getting harassed by her mate about kids, needed some where to vent so here she is I doubt it has anything to do with the choice not to have kids knawing away at the back of her head.

Beruthiel

HashSlinging wrote:

Bitter!! the op's title says "I dont like children!" She even avoids using the swimming pool when other people are using it with their children.

I object!

Why?
It's hardly your business that she would rather swim when there's no kids in the pool. If given the choice, so would I. You get to swim without having a kid getting in your way while you exercise. I fail to see how you cannot understand that.
I am reminded of Bill Hicks comment on kids.

But where did this veneration of childbirth come from? I missed that meeting. Childbirth is wonderful, childbirth is a miracle. Wrong. It's no more a miracle than eating food and a turd coming out your ass. You know what a miracle is? A miracle is raising a kid that doesn't talk at a movie theater.

HashSlinging

Its children we are referring too not Goats, so please don’t call them "kids" its slightly derogatory. Child and Children is far more appropriate.

shoegirl

Beruthiel wrote:

Why?
It's hardly your business that she would rather swim when there's no kids in the pool. If given the choice, so would I. You get to swim without having a kid getting in your way while you exercise. I fail to see how you cannot understand that.
I am reminded of Bill Hicks comment on kids.

Beruthiel, your points are so to the point I really have to congratulate you. The idiot who suggested that the very fact that I am posting suggests that I feel some kind of guilt at not wanting children in my life is quite simply wrong. I never even thought about it until my position was set up under a barrage of criticism. Its not even about not wanting to share my life, its simply indifference and disinterest. I simply don't share this romantic vision of childbearing that some people seem to suggest exists - all I see are the snotty noses and jam-encrusted faces that another poster suggests, not to mention the fact that, counter to my friend's opinion, not all children are nice or likeable. My experience as a teacher taught me (after working with well over 1000 kids) that some of them are not nice at all. And they know it too. And its not simply innocence or immaturity - some children are quite simply not nice people. Just as many adults are not nice. Maybe that bit of reality blew apart any romantic notions that may have remained.

As for the swimming pool, its simply that they if they get (or are brought by selfish parents) to the adult area they tend to block everybody else from lane swimming and some of them feel a need to roar at the top of their voices. I'm sure of course, that everybody loves this just as much as they love the few kids who charge around shops etc. I think I've every right to find this irritating and annoying. Why can't parents teach their children basic manners and some kind of boundaries. This isn't anything to do with my opinion on children, but some of them just aren't what you want to be around day-in-day-out.

HashSlinging

You were a teacher, shame corporal punishment was done away with really, you could have shown them all a peice of your mind.

I couldnt care when/where/what/who she swims/swam/swimming, she made it her business to tell everyone how she feels when someone has their "children" in a pool, its my right to reply with my opinion.

layke

HashSlinging wrote:

Its children we are referring too not Goats, so please don’t call them "kids" its slightly derogatory. Child and Children is far more appropriate.

lolz

You were a teacher, shame corporal punishment was done away with really, you could have shown them all a peice of your messed up mind.

I couldnt care when/where/what/who she swims/swam/swimming, she made it her business to tell everyone how she feels when someone has their "children" in a pool, its my right to reply with my opinion.

I'm sorry, are you saying that those who don't want kids are messed up in some way? If so your including me in that stereotype.

samo

HashSlinging wrote:

You were a teacher, shame corporal punishment was done away with really, you could have shown them all a peice of your messed up mind.

I couldnt care when/where/what/who she swims/swam/swimming, she made it her business to tell everyone how she feels when someone has their "children" in a pool, its my right to reply with my opinion.

On the swimming pool thing I have to say I've bought my children to the National Acquatic centre and also enough playgrounds where their day and mine has been ruined by parents who's children are little B******* and are let run wild doing whatever the hell they like bashing everyone else while the parents sit back and do nothing. :mad:

So I can quite sympathise if somebody is not a huge fan of unruly children that they might steer clear of a swimming pool for arguements sake on a Saturday morning when its likely to be full of them - I dont think thats an unreasonable thing to say!

I have no problem with someones desire not have children - they are perfectly entitled to their feelings on the subject once they dont feel the need to tell me that I'm wrong in my decision to have mine, each to their own!

Beruthiel

HashSlinging wrote:

she made it her business to tell everyone how she feels when someone has their "children" in a pool, its my right to reply with my opinion.

What I don't understand here is why it upsets you so much that you feel the need to go on the defensive with regards to this. Why exactly does it bother you so much what shoegirl thinks? Does she not have the right to have a different view to you?
I take great offence on your 'messed up mind' comment, what gives you the right to believe her different views suggest a messed up mind. I think you need to take a step back and read your comments again.
I am a mother, a damn good one, I can see and understand both points of view, how come you can't?

AngryBadger

HashSlinging wrote:

I couldnt care when/where/what/who she swims/swam/swimming, she made it her business to tell everyone how she feels when someone has their "children" in a pool, its my right to reply with my opinion.

And it's other peoples right to air the opinion that your opinion, and the manner in which you dispense it are tunnel-visioned in the extremes. The OP is making fair points, she's not saying nobody should have children, she's just saying she has no interest in it herself, which is a perfectly reasonable point of view. as to all of her complaints about children misbehaving, I'd agree with them totally. We've all seen children out with their parents behaving in the most brazen fashion, and it can be damningly unpleasant to be subjected to that.

Further to which, the OP came on querying her own view on children, she makes no comment about the men she may or may not be seeing, so for you to go off on that tangent is nothing short of myopic, and blatant misogony.

Frankly your response resonates with my own posting earlier about some people being threatened by the very suggestion of something that doesn't square with what they think themselves. Perhaps you're the kind of bad parent who allows their children to misbehave in this manner, and maybe you take issue with the OP for putting it squarely in front of you that permitting this kind of conduct from children is the very definition of bad parenting.

Rant over.

HashSlinging

..... Someone who teaches children but dosent like children, someone who is supposed to be an influential and inspiring charater to CHILDREN but dosent like them isnt doing anyone any favours.. Now why would I go on the defensive about that.

AngryBadger

HashSlinging wrote:

..... Someone who teaches children but dosent like children, someone who is supposed to be an influential and inspiring charater to CHILDREN but dosent like them isnt doing anyone any favours.. Now why would I go on the defense about that.

Teachers are not meant to be influential or inspiring. Ideally they should reinforce whatever's considered to be "acceptable" social code, (note the commas), but if you're the kind of fool who believes their role is to raise your children for you then the country's ****ed.

A teachers' role should be limited to communicating essential skills and know how to children, obviously there is a level of inevitable emotonal growth and support required in that setting, but "liking" children is not a pre-requisite.

Plus the OP hasn't said she despises all children with the kind of fiery passion you hate liberal thinking, she's noted that she despises children who are brats, but has no problem with children who are well behaved. Reasonable in my view.

Also if your problem was that her assertions about children might make her an unfit teacher then why did you go off on a tangent about her dating habits?

Owen

Yup, I've zero interest in money sucking, screaming, yard rats. I can't understand parent's obsession with idolising kids as demi-gods. I'm sorry, but a Dog will do me quite nicely, show me the same, if not more affection, and will be trained in 6-8 months.

There is zero logic behind the motivation of kids. Let's look at pros and cons.

Pros :
Affection from kids
Continuity of your DNA
Something to discuss with your peers

Cons :
Money drain
Inability to make quick decisions, ie : Go to Thailand for a year out, etc.
Lack of sleep
Lack of social life (To the same degree as pre-children)
Poor behaviour of children in public
Nappies
Constant arguments (Bed times, wanting sweets, not eating food, etc)
Emotional dependency
Buying sensible cars based on needs of children

So to the OP, there's nothing wrong with you not wanting kids. In fact, it's very very logical indeed!

AngryBadger

ned78 wrote:

a Dog will do me quite nicely, show me the same, if not more affection, and will be trained in 6-8 months.

Dogs are great in fairness.