Passat or Saab?

mikedragon32

I've started to look around for a new car and had pretty much narrowed my choice to a Passat as I can afford a 06 reg'd 1.9 TDi.

However today I saw a very nice 05 reg'd Saab 9-3 1.9 TiDs with a much higher level of specification and a lot of options for about the same money.

The thing is, I was talking to the dealer in the garage where I saw the Saab and she (yeah, I know) suggested she could do me a good trade in on my current car which would almost match the value if I was to sell privately.

Does anyone have any thoughts on which they might choose? I guess beyond all the ideas about trim, specification, options etc. I wonder about depreciation and resale two years down the road.

junkyard

I wouldn't buy either of them they're both sh*te as far as I'm concerned, I'd buy a Ford Mondeo before I'd buy either one. What about a Toyota Avensis, I know they're not the most exciting car on the market but you won't get the trouble the Passat will give you. The Saab is only an Opel Vectra in wolfs clothing. You should consider a second-hand BMW 530d if you can afford the road tax, a fantastic car to drive and a handsome car to look at but make sure you get the right spec. i.e. leather interior and M-tech bumpers etc.

crosstownk

Of the two I'd go with the Passat. I've heard about lots of problems with them but I've 50+ of the new Passat on fleet and (so far) they've given no serious trouble. The Saab, if it gives bother down the road, will cost more to repair - parts can be expensive. The Passat will have a 2 year warranty.

But junkyard is talking sense about the 530d - sweet car.

cantdecide

junkyard wrote:

I wouldn't buy either of them they're both sh*te as far as I'm concerned, I'd buy a Ford Mondeo before I'd buy either one. What about a Toyota Avensis

----your sarcastic comment here----



passat would have better resale. it's the better of the two overall IMO and it's a fine car by any standards. speccy passats are hard to come by which is a shame. would you consider parting with a superfluous organ and getting a sport model. they are just to die for.

(i wouldn't push you away from the 530d either though)

junkyard

VW haven't made a decent car since the mid nineties ffs, the sh*te they're churning out since then doesn't hold its money. There are a few loyal supporters out there (a bit like the Alfa brigade) who think that when they're cars fall apart that it was just a fluke or must have been due to overuse or that the owner is being punished by the VW or Alfa god for something they did. When will people learn that they are being ripped off by these companies who are selling inferior products with inferior parts time after time. Don't get me wrong I own seven VWs myself and I adore my GTIs but that was a time when they built quality. It seems a terrible shame that the same people who built the Beetle can hold their heads up high and say they build a successor to this great car. What a load of bo**ox, instead of bringing Seat and Skoda up to the standards that VW used to be they dragged the VW name down to the gutter. Such a shame.

Preset No.3

Ok, a 530D is a nice idea. HOWEVER, its the high rate of roadtax! I like the Saab, I had a 93 for about a year and never had a problem with it. Where was the 93 you were looking at? Faichney Ringwood? I like the '05 tdi sport that they have. Only thing I would say against the Saab, is not to hold on to it for longer than 2 years. The value really drops then.

HungryJoey

junkyard wrote:

VW haven't made a decent car since the mid nineties ffs, the sh*te they're churning out since then doesn't hold its money. There are a few loyal supporters out there (a bit like the Alfa brigade) who think that when they're cars fall apart that it was just a fluke or must have been due to overuse or that the owner is being punished by the VW or Alfa god for something they did. When will people learn that they are being ripped off by these companies who are selling inferior products with inferior parts time after time. Don't get me wrong I own seven VWs myself and I adore my GTIs but that was a time when they built quality. It seems a terrible shame that the same people who built the Beetle can hold their heads up high and say they build a successor to this great car. What a load of bo**ox, instead of bringing Seat and Skoda up to the standards that VW used to be they dragged the VW name down to the gutter. Such a shame.

Give the VW basing a break Ey ? You're always at it tbh. And some of you're comments are straight off radicilous regarding VW and other car manufacturers that do not meet you're standards. I am basing this comment off alot of you're posts towards VW which I will strongly dis-agree with.

**Not meaning to sound so snotty

Hj

Big Balls

Junkyard how much more SH1TE are you gonna plough into this thread?

A Ford Mondeo?????? Better than the new model Passat!!!!!!

VW haven't made any decent cars since the mid 90s.

VW don't hold their value

And what, Ford's do?

Have you even sat in the new Passat? Looked at the finish of it? A good friend of mine sells those BMWs you rave on about (I love BMWs) and they had a new model Passat for sale in his dealers and he thought it was a lovely car.

Mike - the 1.9 engine is quite underpowered as it's not the 130 bhp or 150 bhp one. The 2.0 TDI is much more refined and powerful but the VRT jumps again.

Big Balls

junkyard wrote:

There are a few loyal supporters out there

VW Golfs are the No. 2 seller in the country you fool.

Big Nelly

junkyard wrote:

I wouldn't buy either of them they're both sh*te as far as I'm concerned, I'd buy a Ford Mondeo before I'd buy either one. What about a Toyota Avensis, I know they're not the most exciting car on the market but you won't get the trouble the Passat will give you. The Saab is only an Opel Vectra in wolfs clothing. You should consider a second-hand BMW 530d if you can afford the road tax, a fantastic car to drive and a handsome car to look at but make sure you get the right spec. i.e. leather interior and M-tech bumpers etc.

junkyard wrote:

VW haven't made a decent car since the mid nineties ffs, the sh*te they're churning out since then doesn't hold its money. There are a few loyal supporters out there (a bit like the Alfa brigade) who think that when they're cars fall apart that it was just a fluke or must have been due to overuse or that the owner is being punished by the VW or Alfa god for something they did. When will people learn that they are being ripped off by these companies who are selling inferior products with inferior parts time after time. Don't get me wrong I own seven VWs myself and I adore my GTIs but that was a time when they built quality. It seems a terrible shame that the same people who built the Beetle can hold their heads up high and say they build a successor to this great car. What a load of bo**ox, instead of bringing Seat and Skoda up to the standards that VW used to be they dragged the VW name down to the gutter. Such a shame.

God that cr*p cheered me up on a dull Friday morning in the office. What a crock of s**t. Anyway back to talking sense. What is the Bhp on the model of the Passat you are buying? some of them can be abit underpowered but nothing major. I swapped from a 1.6 Primera to a 90Bhp Passat and it was alot better than the Primera but you would notice on the motorways(which I drive on alot for work) when you where at 120Kmph she was lacking abit and the revs where pretty high

I swapped it for the 130Bhp and this car is great, takes off like a rocket and great on motorway(cruise control helps as well). Make sure if getting Passat to get comfortline, what extra's are included? mine is UK import so has all the bells and whisles on it. Which are handy for long drive. Was in Killarney two weekends ago and Galway last week and the Comfortline is needed, the 90Bhp was baseline and after a drive to Kerry once you would notice it isnt very nice on the rear area!! haha

Know a few people who have bought Saab and one bloke that is looking to buy one, one mate of mine got one and the whole engine practically fell out of it after 4 months, Saab fixed it for him but took ages to fix. Think the guys in garage said bill to Saab was close to 4K:eek: Saab's have a smaller fan base so thats why you will prob get better trade in but you will lose alot more on resale value. Again whats the Bhp on the Saab? is it UK import?

Did you look around for a 05 Passat Uk Import? you will be surprised at all the extras the UK models have. I give it 2-3 hours before someone on here mentions Skoda but would never buy one themselves

And to finish off on.......Mondeo??? lol classic

maidhc

My grandfather has an 06 Passat that has to date been troublefree (not exactly a noteworthy achievement...). I'd take a Mondeo anyday though, they are a better car IMO.

Junkyard is entitled to his opinion, and the guy by all accounts knows a lot more than most here about cars.

Sizzler

junkyard wrote:

I wouldn't buy either of them they're both sh*te as far as I'm concerned, I'd buy a Ford Mondeo before I'd buy either one. What about a Toyota Avensis, I know they're not the most exciting car on the market but you won't get the trouble the Passat will give you. The Saab is only an Opel Vectra in wolfs clothing. You should consider a second-hand BMW 530d if you can afford the road tax, a fantastic car to drive and a handsome car to look at but make sure you get the right spec. i.e. leather interior and M-tech bumpers etc.

FFS ! Are you having a laugh? A poxy Mondeo over a Passat? Superior? I dont think so ! Have a look at a 97 Mondeo now and have a look at a 97 Passat and see which one is looking the better? You can be guaranteed the mondeo is a junker and once it reaches 5 yrs old the value drops quicker than a brassers jockies.

To answer the OP's quandry, if you can afford the brand new Passat mate I would seriously consider it, sweet car. Much better to have a 06 than a 05 Saab I would have said. Its down to personal taste though, not everybody here is going to agree with your choice whatever you go for, so do what makes financial sense and also, which car gets you giddy..

Big Nelly

maidhc wrote:

My grandfather has an 06 Passat that has to date been troublefree (not exactly a noteworthy achievement...). I'd take a Mondeo anyday though, they are a better car IMO.

Junkyard is entitled to his opinion, and the guy by all accounts knows a lot more than most here about cars.

I was waiting for your usual "Buy a Skoda". To be honest I have drove a Mondeo and found it had a cheap interior, looked old and drove like a dog.

fletch

I'm very much a fan of Fords....absolutely love the way they drive but I'm with the guys on this one....having sat in my Uncles '06 Passat Sportline with full leather there really is no comparison, the Mondeo is due for replacement pretty soon and you can see why.

Smiley101

I drove a new Passat recently. Nice looking car but I don't like them.
Noisey cabins
Very poor rear view
Hate the way have you start it...had to take out the manual to find out
Hate the electronic handbreak....would hate to get stuck on a hill

Much prefer the Volvo S40. Nicest car on the road I think

unkel

The Passat is modern looking, reasonably priced and very popular in Ireland. It will keep its value well. The Saab (basically an Opel Vectra) is overpriced, although the FIAT diesel engine is excellent. It will depreciate steeply, especially after 2 years

The Mondeo was the class leader when it came out, but it is aging now. It will depreciate very quickly once its successor is out. The Avensis is very dull, but reliable and it will keep its value well. A Skoda Superb is bigger than any of them and probably the cheapest to run too. Other alternatives are a Mazda 6 or a Volvo S40 (cleverly marketed as being in this class although it is really only a Ford Focus). Then there's the French cars, but I'd better not mention them or junkyard will have a fit

Preset No.3 wrote:

Ok, a 530D is a nice idea. HOWEVER, its the high rate of roadtax!

You have to keep it in perspective though! Tax would only be about €500 more on a 530d compared to a VW/SAAB 1.9d for a year. That's only a fraction of the depreciation of either car

Generally, nearly new BMW 3-series and 5-series are overpriced in Ireland, but you might consider importing a say 3 year old 330d / 530d from the UK

Big Balls

maidhc wrote:

Junkyard is entitled to his opinion, and the guy by all accounts knows a lot more than most here about cars.

Maybe so but the above is not opinion it's drivel and bias.

Anyone who says a Mondeo is a superior car to the Passat needs their head examined.

el tel

Wouldn't consider a SAAB period, they are troublesome GM junk with the constant potential for major problems and major bills. The Passat is a much better car although if I was looking for a newish car in this bracket the Toyota Avensis 2.2-D-4D would be my choice.

maidhc

Big Balls wrote:

Anyone who says a Mondeo is a superior car to the Passat needs their head examined.

Why?

I still have a 1995 one which has done 170k miles and cost practically nothing more than filters and oil in that time. It has aged well except for the bumpers cracking on the slightest impact, but you can replace them with spurious ones which should be better (I riveted mine together for the moment as my sister is learning to drive in it!). The mondeo does depreciate, but trading in any D segment car isn't fun... e.g. to go from an 02 Avensis to an 06 requires 20k.

The interior of the new Passat (Comfortline upward) is far nicer than the current mondeo. As regards a piece of machinery however I find the Mondeo far more appealing, even if the design is 6 years older.

tred

Big Balls wrote:

Maybe so but the above is not opinion it's drivel and bias.

Anyone who says a Mondeo is a superior car to the Passat needs their head examined.

Actually most of the so called experts would. But they would be comparing the mondeo to the previous version of the passat. When the new mondeo comes out the end of this year, it will beat the daylights out of the passat..wait and see!!!

Big Balls

So the current model Mondeo is a nicer car and more reliable than the last model Passat? Better engines? As nice an interior? As solid a car? Better residuals?

None of the above.

The Mondeo may handle better but rep mobiles/taxis don't need the best chassis available.

Maidhc I'm sure there's someone out there with a great Lada that has served them well, it doesn't mean they're great cars.

Neither of these cars are going to set the world alight but the overall better car is the Passat.

There's a lot of Ford Vs VW bashing on these boards, mainly people saying how great Fords are. Yesterday someone tried comparing the Focus ST with the new Golf R32. That's what you're up against - not to mention the predictions that the new Mondeo "will beat the daylights out of the passat..wait and see!!!". The same person probably said the same about the new Focus when the new Golf was came out.

Sizzler

LOL Big Balls, Im with you on all of the above

mikedragon32

Bloody hell... what have I started?

To clarify a few of the queries, the Passat won't be brand new, I've a couple of ex-demos in mind in a couple of VW dealerships.

I guess what generated by quandry was seeing the 9-3 in the (Fiachney Ringwood, as one poster correctly guessed) forecourt. It did indeed have an impressive level of spec.

To answer Junkyard, it's not just my decision and I personally wouldn't like an Avensis and my wife hates Fords (she used to have one). Neither of us like BMW particularly, much less a big engined one!

The Passat was arrived upon while we were researching used A4/A6 models and we realised for the same money as a 1 or 2 year old A4 you could have a new model Passat with more equipment.

I think in the cold light of day and having thought about it last night, the Saab is indeed just a Vectra (albeit a NICE one), and we know that it would probably be more expensive in terms of running costs.

Someone mentioned the Octavia, which is indeed a nice car, but the finish isn't up to much we've found. I personally think that even with leather upholstry the interior is far too plastic looking.

Thanks to all for the advice, it's greatly appreciated. Glad I didn't mention the Alfa 156!!!!

unkel

mikedragon32 wrote:

The Passat was arrived upon while we were researching used A4/A6 models and we realised for the same money as a 1 or 2 year old A4 you could have a new model Passat with more equipment

Sound logic. The A4 might be nicer looking / more stylish with a great interior, but it is just a Passat underneath. You can't go far wrong with buying a new model nearly new Passat diesel. Are you going for a 2.0TDI? DSG?

mikedragon32 wrote:

Glad I didn't mention the Alfa 156!!!!

Note that no one else did either. The war would have really started had that happened

Mc-BigE

a nearly new passat with 2.0 diesel engine and leather interior would be very nice choice.
question is there a 170bhp 2.0TDI passat coming out on the market?
now thats worth looking into.

junkyard

Tbh I'd sooner buy a quality second-hand car than any of the above "rep mobiles." I've been buying and selling cars for nearly 30 years and it may be a surprise to some of you that I make a living out of buying and selling the right cars. I can't afford to make the same mistakes that some of you seem to make time and time again. If you don't want my advice or help feel free to ignore me but If I can put someone on the right track as regards buying the right car its all free. Generally any car that I've bought for myself over the years I either made money on it after a year or two or at worst, broke even. Sure, I've made mistakes too, I recommended some makes like VW in the past only to be left holding the baby when the sh*t hit the fan, I supplied Renaults, against my advice I might add, and ditto, troublesome cars that nobody wanted down the road. So to recap, if I've found a car that I was happy with I'll sing its praises but if I find a car that's not I'll tell tales on that too. I think I an being extremely fair by all accounts.

maidhc

Big Balls wrote:

So the current model Mondeo is a nicer car and more reliable than the last model Passat?

Yes.

Big Balls wrote:

Better engines?

Yep.

Big Balls wrote:

As nice an interior?

Unless you have a black dashboard fetish, yes.

Big Balls wrote:

As solid a car? Better residuals?

None of the above.

Definately as solid, residuals unfortunately not. Although as I said above, all cars in this class depreciate like crap in the first 3 years.

Big Balls wrote:

Maidhc I'm sure there's someone out there with a great Lada that has served them well, it doesn't mean they're great cars.

Many people have put intergalactic mileages on mondeos, and have been very happy. In fact I have never met an unhappy mondeo owner/ex-owner. Some are on boards even.

pburns

Ride/handling-wise the Mondeo's a great car & Fords are pretty reliable these days. They're common as muck tho', a real sales rep car and about to be replaced. I respect 'em but wouldn't buy one.

Agree with Junkyard about VWs being overrated (don't get me started about the dealers!) but I reckon he's older & richer than most here & his tastes are more 'wine & cheese' than 'beer & crisps':D

The Passat would be a safe buy but you get bad VFM with VW. Also, I think the lardy-arsed Passat neets a high spec/big wheels to look right.

A 530d might be a great car but a 320d might be a more sensible alternative. Even that's gonna be way more expensive though and the new model looks like a Nissan Almera. If you could stretch to it perhaps a Lexus 220d or A4?

bacon&cabbage

I own a 14 year old SAAB 9000 LPT with 237000 miles on the clock :eek:
Only trouble I ever had for the last 7 yrs was a DI cartridge failure.......

Saying that I'd still go with the Passat, the SAAB looks much better but I think the VW will be more reliable and get you a better resale later on.
GM have managed to really screw SAAB up since they took over :rolleyes:

unkel

bacon&cabbage wrote:

I own a 14 year old SAAB 9000 LPT with 237000 miles on the clock :eek:

That's pretty decent for a FIAT based car

Big Balls

Maidhc simply replying "yes" to questions isn't suffice. At least try and defend the MIGHTY Mondeo.

Ford did NOT produce better engines when the last model was out. Ford only a matter of years ago thought 115 bhp in a diesel car was enough power - VW - and I'll go further - and say VAG, were producing diesels with well over 200 bhp back then. Ford did/do not have better engines in their Mondeos compared to a Passat, even in 1999!!!

Ford have never, ever, produced a car with an interior nicer than any VW. A Lupo is screwed together using more expensive plastic.

As for Junky, these cars we are talking about do not appreciate. Full stop. The type of cars you mention have nothing in common with the above.

maidhc

Big Balls wrote:

Ford did NOT produce better engines when the last model was out. Ford only a matter of years ago thought 115 bhp in a diesel car was enough power - VW - and I'll go further - and say VAG, were producing diesels with well over 200 bhp back then. Ford did/do not have better engines in their Mondeos compared to a Passat, even in 1999!!!

The Zetec class petrol engines were years ahead of the VW Petrol engines at the time. Compare driving a 1996 (or 2006) Polo to a 1996 Fiesta.

Although reliable, Fords diesels were pretty bad (crap power, crap torque) until the TDCi ones were launched. Now they are much quieter and smoother than the VW ones... although I am not saying there is much wrong with VW TDis either. But for the sake of history: In 2001 VW still felt an Audi A4 driver would be satisfied with 90bhp, in 1995 he had no option but 90bhp.

Big Balls wrote:

Ford have never, ever, produced a car with an interior nicer than any VW. A Lupo is screwed together using more expensive plastic.

Your view! While I love the new Passat dash, the old Passat, old golf and new Golf have the dullest possible looking interiors. The plastic is nice though, but the new Focus runs them very close.

I appreciate from this and other threads there is no point having a reasoned discussion with you, and as such I see little point in "defending the mighty mondeo" for your pleasure.

ninty9er

maidhc wrote:

Why?

I still have a 1995 one which has done 170k miles and cost practically nothing more than filters and oil in that time. It has aged well except for the bumpers cracking on the slightest impact, but you can replace them with spurious ones which should be better (I riveted mine together for the moment as my sister is learning to drive in it!). The mondeo does depreciate, but trading in any D segment car isn't fun... e.g. to go from an 02 Avensis to an 06 requires 20k.

The interior of the new Passat (Comfortline upward) is far nicer than the current mondeo. As regards a piece of machinery however I find the Mondeo far more appealing, even if the design is 6 years older.

Totally Agree. You could pick up a s/h diesel mondeo with top spec for the same price as a base 1.6 passat.

I've an uncle with a 02 Passat comfortline and has had quite a few electrical problems, that said the 1.6 is not underpowered as you might think.

I'd prefer the mondeo myself but as someone said get an S40. spend it's standard spec list looks like the BMW options list, just get leather and you'll have no resale troube, but you're likely to take a depreciation hit. If you want to avoid that get an Avensis, which is lighter than the Passat and is the only D Segment car in the top 10 sellers in the country so far this year and has been in the top 10 for 15 years running (including the Carinas)

gyppo

This debate sounds familiar:D

I agree with junkyard - but maybe not as vehemently. VW machinery are good, but over-rated, and over-priced. Great if you buy new, not too good if you are looking at the secondhand market.
Ford (since the current mondeo model (and mk1 focus)) are also good, but under-rated, with fairly rapid depreciation in the first few years. Great picking to be had when buying secondhand.

I currently run a Leon Tdi (130bhp), which is a vag PD engine. I need to change it soon for something bigger, and have looked at 05 Passats, 05 Mondeos, and the 04 Avensis D4Ds. So far this is what I found.

The Passat (last of the old model, im talking about) is a big roomy comfortable car, with very good build quality. The 130bhp model is quick, but the 100bhp model a lot more common.
However, the prevalent spec level available seems to be the baseline one, not very many comfortlines around, and those that are are overpriced.
A ballpark average on an 05 passat tdi is 25k, more for the more powerful/better specced ones.

The toyota avensis D4D is another very good car, but makes silly money secondhand. I found that an 04 avensis was costing as much as an 05 passat.

I then looked at 05 Mondeos. The 90bhp tddi engine - lets not go down this road!! The 115bhp TDci in zetec guise - thats a completely different matter. This car felt as fast, if not quicker to drive as my own, or the 130bhp passats I had looked at. I found it by far the best car to drive.
I would say build quality was about on par with the passat, and a little below the toyota.
The best bit though - you can buy an 05 mondeo zetec tdci with all the toys a good deal cheaper than you can buy an 05 baseline 100bhp Passat, or an 04 Avensis D4D.

I cannot comment on the newer model Passat as they are out of my price range. I have no doubt that they are superior to the current Ford Mondeo, which is in the run-out stage of its production life.

What I am saying is that the Mondeo in TDci Zetec guise is as good (if not better) than the older model Passat, and makes a far more attractive proposition as a secondhand buy. Thats where my money will be going.




btw - just been in Rome, and the amount of Mondeo TDci's running as Taxi's is staggering. That must say something about them.

junkyard

Taxis and hackneys are usually a good guide as to what is reliable and relatively cheap to run. Its all Toyota and Ford down my way and no VWs for obvious reasons but I sure there are a few amateur Taxi/Hackney drivers out there too.;)

ninty9er

junkyard wrote:

Taxis and hackneys are usually a good guide as to what is reliable and relatively cheap to run. Its all Toyota and Ford down my way and no VWs for obvious reasons but I sure there are a few amateur Taxi/Hackney drivers out there too.;)

Agreed. Any given time I pass the taxi rank in Limerick there are 3/4 Toyotas a few Mercs and the odd Nissan or Honda. The only VW seen is the Caravelle. There was one Old 96 Passat but that guy drives a Berlingo Multi now

cantdecide

here is my guage of how good a car is

worth washing on a sunday- mondeo - NO
avensis - no
vectra - no
saab - yes
passat - yes
primera - no

even the mighty avensis is known for warping brake discs. in africa you will see nothing but toyotas but that doesn't mean they're worth being proud of. would i prefer a 100% reliable (albeit less refined) mondeo over a passat? no way jose. 9-3? nope. people who love cars generally hate mondeos for their drabness. ford will never have the brand that VW have, and they will never have the styling or desirability. even if they are reliable.
would i drive a rover 45? nope. would i drive an MG ZS? hell yeah. in other words, reliability isn't everything. a little heart is important to a lot of people including me. will you get that from ford? nope

junkyard

From a fleet provider point of view, it would be Ford all the way as far as I'm concerned. I used to provide VWs as fleet cars for three companies near me and when the time came to renew their fleet VW were dropped because of unreliability issues. As far as I know two of the major banks have also dropped them. As I've said in previous posts I used to love VWs, I still have 7 of them, but my point is that the new models are overly complex and they now tend to make their components out of brittle plastic instead of cast metal or alloy as the older ones were. If you look at the make-up of "reliable" cars they are not overly complex so less problems develop as a result. Just recently Mercedes had to recall 1.3 million cars as a result of poor quality and unreliability and admitted at the end of the day that they thought they would get away with cutting corners to make more profits. I can see too that some people can get carried away with having a trendy car. I remember the hassle I used to get from some companies when their new fleet was being ordered and we had to make sure that the more senior managers would get the higher spec cars so they could make sure that everyone in the car park knew they were senior management, some of the juniors used to approach me and offer to pay extra to get higher spec cars out of their own pocket so they would save face. It was very funny when I look back at it now....poor bastards, to think their world revolved around having a GL badge over an L badge.:D

unkel

junkyard wrote:

Taxis and hackneys are usually a good guide as to what is reliable and relatively cheap to run

I don't think anyone can argue with that

junkyard wrote:

Its all Toyota and Ford down my way and no VWs for obvious reasons

Really? The most up-and-coming taxi in the greater Dublin area for the last 3 or 4 years has been the Skoda Octavia (= VW Golf), mainly in TDI disguise, obviously

Darando

I think that most of this boils down to people being of the old opinion that German built cars meant the best built cars. Ford was seen as american and not put together as well as some. (do a straw poll of people on the street and ask for teh most reliable car - i bet VW would be at the top or very close)

However now I think this is not always the case. Its not a VW vs Ford issue - more of a certain model versus each other eg. polo vs fiesta - passat vs mondeo.

Everybody must rememeber that for every person that has a bad story of a car there are 100s happy. You only here about the bad ones!

As for VW - the standard spec is very poor for the money - to get a good spec will cost - why? I would probably say dealers know that Irish people still see VW as one of the best brands and therefore can charge a little extra.

(as for the Saab- it looks good !!!! so does the S40!!!!)

maidhc

cantdecide wrote:

a little heart is important to a lot of people including me. will you get that from ford? nope

Will you get it from any "Econobox", from any car designed for carring 5 people in a safe and secure manner with minimum fuss. VW, Ford, GM, and even BMW make all their money from these remarkably mainstream and "souless" cars.

My argument is the mondeo is remarkably good at what it does, and it is the car enthusiasts choice of all D segment cars for this reason. Does it have "soul" or a "heart"? Does any mainstream car? The Passat doesn't, the SAAB doesn't, and no the mondeo doesn't... The Ford Capri/Mustang/GT and Puma does, the VW Sirocco/Corrado does, the SAAB 900 certainly does.

cantdecide wrote:

people who love cars generally hate mondeos for their drabness

They are not "drab", or least "more drab" than its competition... what person who loves cars would turn down a Mondeo ST over say, a BMW 31x? Secondly there is a belief that a car enthusiast must for some reason embrace unreliability as some sort of sign of "soul". I disagree, I love cars, but what is the point if it won't start in the morning? I would find an unreliable car as difficult to endure as an unfaithful girlfriend, and I love cars and machines of every description!

gyppo

cantdecide wrote:

people who love cars generally hate mondeos for their drabness. ford will never have the brand that VW have, and they will never have the styling or desirability. even if they are reliable.

?????
Styling, desireability, in the same sentence as VW??:D

Your are certainly entitled to your opinion, but when it comes to isues like styling and desireability, its a very subjective area.

Imo, the mondeo is a far more handsome car, but thats only my opinion.;)

Big Balls

maidhc wrote:

They are not "drab", or least "more drab" than its competition...

If you can't see how drab a Focus is, new model or old, then you have problems.

We're not saying the competition is sooooooo much better but Fords are just the bland of the bland. Get people from A to B and don't ask for an inch more.

Junky I find it amazing that you haven't seen Mercs, Passats and Skoda used as taxis as they're ten a penny in Dublin. You should come up sometime.

junkyard

Big Balls wrote:

Junky I find it amazing that you haven't seen Mercs, Passats and Skoda used as taxis as they're ten a penny in Dublin. You should come up sometime.

Thanks anyway Big Balls but we have everything we need here in Cork, especially nice reliable cars.;)

maidhc

Big Balls wrote:

If you can't see how drab a Focus is, new model or old, then you have problems.

Because a Focus RS is so boring compared to a Golf GTi? Or a Golf 1.4 is so exciting compared to a Focus 1.4. Get up the road outta that!

(I'm saying Fords may well be bland, but they are no more so than any other marque. Indeed if everyone drove Ferraris, there would also be a point where they would be "bland".)

@Junkyard:
Don't let them know how good cork really is. They will all want to come

junkyard

maidhc wrote:

@Junkyard:
Don't let them know how good cork really is. They will all want to come

Don't worry maidhc, they won't make it if they're driving VWs anyway.:D

Big Balls

maidhc wrote:

Because a Focus RS is so boring compared to a Golf GTi? Or a Golf 1.4 is so exciting compared to a Focus 1.4. Get up the road outta that!

It's funny that you mention the RS cause only 2 hours ago did I see one in East Wall. It looked like a purple Focus and it had an elderly woman driving it. Big wheels and a badge. They couldn't be driven properly as there was so much torque steer IIRC.

Driving past in my GTI, it would've looked the far classier car. Granted, it's 3 years newer, but the RS would've cost the owner over €50,000 - I wonder how much it's worth now :eek:

Out of the last six cars I've had in as many years, two have been Fords, Fiesta and MKI Focus, MKIV Golf GTI, MKII A3, MKV GTI and another MKV GTI, it was the Fords that had problems with actual functions of the cars.

The Audi was flawless. Air bag light came on once, dealer sorted it.

VW's not as perfect but I've always managed to drive my car no matter what the problem was with it. One of the Fords wouldn't drive depite being a few months old!!

Like has been said, people have good and bad tales. Junkyard, you're getting beyond ridiculous now, no matter how much your tongue is inside your cheek.

cantdecide

ps. mondeos etc are drab. unfortunately, in ireland only it seems, most of the bmws, mercs and and other potentially desirable cars are bottom of the range, plastic wheel trimmed cheapos. (a poor reflection on their owners but that's a different story).
there's a guy who works near where i do and he has a top of the range sportline passat in black with 17's. it looks like a doomsday device! my neighbour has a base model passat diesel in silver (wheel trims and all) and i wouldn't p*^s on it. they are not the same car. so IMO, when it comes to bmws, vws, saabs etc. the problem isn't drab cars, it's drab owners, the lowly mondeo (ST excluded) is exempt from this theory because no matter what you do it's drab.
ps maidhc, i will definitely embrace soul before i will embrace drabness. most cars these days start in the morning first time, so why should i endure drabness.

junkyard

cantdecide wrote:

ps. mondeos etc are drab. unfortunately, in ireland only it seems, most of the bmws, mercs and and other potentially desirable cars are bottom of the range, plastic wheel trimmed cheapos. (a poor reflection on their owners but that's a different story).
there's a guy who works near where i do and he has a top of the range sportline passat in black with 17's. it looks like a doomsday device! my neighbour has a base model passat diesel in silver (wheel trims and all) and i wouldn't p*^s on it. they are not the same car. so IMO, when it comes to bmws, vws, saabs etc. the problem isn't drab cars, it's drab owners, the lowly mondeo is exempt from this theory beacause no matter what you do it's drab.

You've got a point there cantdecide, there is nothing worse than a basic spec car, I'd sooner have a 2 year old car with good spec than a new basic model.

maidhc

cantdecide wrote:

ps maidhc, i will definitely embrace soul before i will embrace drabness. most cars these days start in the morning first time, so why should i endure drabness.

"Drab" is completely subjective! If you need something that will eat motorway miles, do 200k without needing a massive overhaul, be safe and be quick, and not have 50k+ to spend, you my friend will get a "DRAB" car... be it a mondeo, avensis, passat, primera, alfa, bmw, subaru or god knows what else.

If a mondeo ST isn't drab... what about a Ghia X with a 2.2TDCi?

ninty9er

The Ford is a far more handsome car than the cosmetic surgery gone wrong that the Passat got last year. It's got the chunkiness of the Passat with a decent drive and passenger comfort to boot. In the Passat I can fit in the Middle back seat (6'1") but and it's a big but. I was sliding all over the place. Didn't happen in the Mondeo