'Plot to blow up planes' foiled

Moriarty

BBC News wrote:

'Plot to blow up planes' foiled

A terrorist plot to blow up planes in mid-flight from the UK to the US has been disrupted, Scotland Yard has said.

It is thought the plan was to detonate explosive devices smuggled on aircraft in hand luggage.

Police have arrested about 18 people in the London area after an anti-terrorist operation lasting several months.

Security at all airports in the UK has been tightened and delays are expected. MI5 has raised the UK threat level to critical - the highest possible.

According to MI5's website, critical threat level means "an attack is expected imminently and indicates an extremely high level of threat to the UK".

Scotland Yard said in a statement that their investigation into the alleged plot was a "major operation" which would be "lengthy and complex".

"We would like to reassure the public that this operation was carried out with public safety uppermost in our minds."

Home Secretary John Reid confirmed that there had been a plot "to bring down a number of aircraft through mid-flight explosions".

The Department for Transport set out the details of the security measures at UK airports.

Passengers will not be allowed to take any hand luggage on to any flights in the UK, the department said.

Only the barest essentials - including passports and wallets - will be allowed to be carried on board in transparent plastic bags.

"We hope that these measures, which are being kept under review by the government, will need to be in place for a limited period only," the statement said.

BBC journalist Joe Lynam encountered the increased security measures at Gatwick airport.

"I was handed a piece of paper saying that pretty much nothing could be taken on board the plane," he said.

"Everything had to be checked in and that includes mobile phones, ipods, wallets - even spectacle cases had to be checked in."

David Learmount from Flight International Magazine said he expected passengers to be searched much more carefully.

He added: "This is the first time this measure has actually been taken. Certainly I've never seen hand luggage banned."

I don't much fancy flying from the UK to the states today..

liamo

They've just cancelled all short-haul flights. That's destinations with a flight-time of less than 3 hours.

I don't think I'd want to be flying to the UK today anyway!

Kudos to the security forces for catching this one. Of course, there have been other alerts in the past that were politically convenient. But perhaps my cynicism hasn't kicked in yet today, I happen to believe them on this one.

Sleipnir

They arrested 18 people and managed not to shoot one of them?
Excellent!

ednwireland

am i just being cynical or is this level of disruption really neccessary or do the anti terrorist people and tony blair need this level of disruption to maintain their war on terror and their erosion of civil liberties.
what happened to sniffing the bags as they used to on the way into dublin airport, seems like a very knee jerk reaction surely things as above could have been put inplace before grounding the uk flight network ?
or maybe i'm being simple
hope its over before i ffly to mexico through the uk at the end of the month

daveg

Don't see anything as yet about cancelling short haul flights. Have you a link (not on BBC news website anyway).

Gordon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778575.stm Moriarty linked to it in the OP.

I think you're being overly cynical ednwireland.

I wonder if there are any more people with explosives left that the police haven't caught. And if there are some left will they just end up bombing buses instead now.

liamo

daveg wrote:

Don't see anything as yet about cancelling short haul flights. Have you a link (not on BBC news website anyway).

No, I heard it on Morning Ireland at about 7:45.

Bluetonic

Ryanair have cancelled a lot of flights.

Delayed won't be too bad at the moment but the knock on effect will get worse and worse as the day goes on.

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/fltinfo.php?

liamo

Gordon wrote:

I wonder if there are any more people with explosives left that the police haven't caught. And if there are some left will they just end up bombing buses instead now.

Yes, I imagine that a possible Plan 'B' attack is foremost in the minds of the security forces. Having said that, I heard an interview with the British Transport Minister this morning and he didn't mention anything about any other type of transport. Of course, until and unless they have specific information they probably don't want to grind the country to a halt by adding to the concern already out there.

Kalashnikov_Kid

ffs Im departing from Dublin to Gatwick at 3:45 today. Last year my flight to London was scheduled for the day after the failed bombings of July 21st. However I do not believe this is a knee jerk reaction, next time how close are these terrorists gonna get to harming myself or any of my extended family living overseas?

Despite Aer Lingus chief executive advising people not to fly to UK today unless absolutely necessary (morning Ireland), like last year we're going ahead anyway, although Heathrow airport is expected to be closed til at least noon and a BBC journalist has reported a hand luggage ban this morning at Gatwick. I'll be expecting heavy delays this afternoon as the knock-on affect kicks in. Indications so far suggest only trans-atlantic flights have been targeted but they're not taking any chances.

dathi1

cue.. armoured cars and tanks outside Heathrow and Mancheter. cue..release some or all of those detained.

Tchocky

This is brilliant :-/
It means that I'll have to go through Irish, British & American security next week, and they'll all be nervous as trigger-happy kittens....

.....but of course, if I've done nothing wrong, I've got nothing to worry about......:rolleyes:

Sgt. Sensible

I'm very sceptical about this but on the other hand given yo blair's unstinting support for the US it's only a matter of time before there's another terrorist attack in the UK.

sovtek

Like Sensible I'm dubious whenever they have claimed to "foiled a plot".
So far the only real plot to be foiled has been that highly effective genius of a terrorist Richard Reid.
In other words the Anglo American "security" services don't know their arse from a whole in the ground.
I await to be convinced in this case as well.

Gillo

Michael O'Leary's wet dream isn't it. You can't take hand luggage but you have to pay a premium for "booked in" luggage.

It's very hush hush as far as teh news is concerned, no one really seems to know what is happening?

BossArky

Aren't those cynics above pleased that planes won't be falling out of the air today? It is easy to be skeptical right now only hours after claims to have foiled a plot with no hard proof.

However, if we were in a parallel universe and planes did start falling out of the air wouldn't you be complaining about the lack of security, etc, etc

That being said, yes, it is a pain for all those travelling today.

ircoha

gillo wrote:

Michael O'Leary's wet dream isn't it. You can't take hand luggage but you have to pay a premium for "booked in" luggage.

It's very hush hush as far as teh news is concerned, no one really seems to know what is happening?

wet dream indeed, just got a text from a ryanair passenger 5 stg for water on plane

GrumPy

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

I'm very sceptical about this but on the other hand given yo blair's unstinting support for the US it's only a matter of time before there's another terrorist attack in the UK.

I'd imagine if it went to plan, the plains would be detonated in mid flight/not long before landing in America, so if anything, its an act of terrorism on America than the UK.

gillo

I'm a little cynical, and yes I'm glad planes aren't dropping but if the cynics are right, there might well not have been planes dropping anyway.

gillo wrote:

Michael O'Leary's wet dream isn't it. You can't take hand luggage but you have to pay a premium for "booked in" luggage.

Are they actually making them pay extra for the luggage they're not allowed to carry ? That's messed up, isn't it?

tchocky wrote:

This is brilliant :-/
It means that I'll have to go through Irish, British & American security next week, and they'll all be nervous as trigger-happy kittens....

.....but of course, if I've done nothing wrong, I've got nothing to worry about......

Heh good luck.

sharkman

bluewolf wrote:

I'm a little cynical, and yes I'm glad planes aren't dropping but if the cynics are right, there might well not have been planes dropping anyway.


Are they actually making them pay extra for the luggage they're not allowed to carry ? That's messed up, isn't it?


Heh good luck.

Michael O'Leary has announced that Ryanair are voluntarily waiving all baggage charges for flights originating in the UK today (and as long as the current alert lasts).

Ah, that's some relief then

sharkman

Stansted - Ryanair flights cancelled
Ryanair flights leaving London Stansted airport between 9.35am and 12.05pm have been cancelled.

Kalashnikov_Kid

Ryanair list of delays and cancelled flights as of 0930hrs:

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/notices.php?notice=gops&code=060810-SECURITY_DELAYS_UK_3-GB

flights fr114 and 115 to Gatwick are already cancelled. My flight 116 is next on the list. If O'Leary is feeling so generous i wonder if he'll forfeit the difference in price Ill have to pay for my original flight today (99c incl. tax) to god knows how much it will cost me for a flight tomorrow :rolleyes:

Not looking good Heathrow is now closed til 3pm still i would rather not give the benefit of the doubt before second guessing the legitimacy of any threat. Its very easy to jump on the bandwagon and say that security are either doing too much or not doing enough so which one is it gonna be?

sovtek

sovtek wrote:

Like Sensible I'm dubious whenever they have claimed to "foiled a plot".
So far the only real plot to be foiled has been that highly effective genius of a terrorist Richard Reid.
In other words the Anglo American "security" services don't know their arse from a whole in the ground.
I await to be convinced in this case as well.

You are right to be a tad skeptical and cautious etc.

That said, if they blew up busses and undergrounds a year ago,I'll understand British security being cautious on our behalf aswell.
These home grown UK terrorists are ruthless mindless people in my opinion.

Stopping hand luggage is a good idea,who needs it anyway.Whatever it is can wait untill landing.

That said,I'll miss my ipod in 2 weeks when I'm supposed to be flying to the west coast of the states via heathrow.
I doubt I'll be going now,I'll probably postpone for a while.

damnyanks

What about laptops ? Don't fancy sticking that in the hold!

gandalf

I hope they actually explain where they got the intelligence for this, because alot of people are getting skeptical and if they cry wolf too many times then people will see their intentions as a cynical attempt to ramp up the fear to justify the "war on terror" and the erosion of personal liberties.

Tchocky

gandalf wrote:

I hope they actually explain where they got the intelligence for this, because alot of people are getting skeptical and if they cry wolf too many times then people will see their intentions as a cynical attempt to ramp up the fear to justify the "war on terror" and the erosion of personal liberties.

A positive aspect is that if the intelligence turns out to have been faulty, the security services will take the heat for it. In the US there would, I imagine, instead be bluster and blowhardiness about defending freedom, omelettes/eggs, and safe/sorry equations.

Dirk Gently

gandalf wrote:

I hope they actually explain where they got the intelligence for this, because alot of people are getting skeptical and if they cry wolf too many times then people will see their intentions as a cynical attempt to ramp up the fear to justify the "war on terror" and the erosion of personal liberties.

Yup, I've been in that cynical group for a while now. Last time they had the Army out in their tanks surrounding the airport. A lot of these high profile security alerts looked designed to keep the public convinced of the need to keep the "war on terror" going. I hope it turns out that they have some rock solid intelligence / evidence for the security scare and it doesn't turn out to be some ambiguous wooly threat which can never be proved one way or another.

As a cynic I think the below quote is exactly the kind of response that a deliberately false security scare would be designed to get.

someone on afterhours wrote:

I hate these extremist fcukers and i'm starting to hate the people they come from.
The fcukers are making me racist.

I hope to see some concrete evidence for this alert as previous alerts were very ambiguous which leads me to think the way I do. The U.S. colour coded terror alert has gone up too which will increase support in both countries for the need to fight "terrorists" and also increase support for any other country seen to be coming down hard on "terrorists".
*cough* Israel *cough*

Ciaran500

They have raised the threat incase there is a sub plot that could go into operation now the main plot has been foiled. Surely they will just wait a few days till airport security is scaled back.

The_Scary_Man

Maybe I'm getting overly cynical but I'll believe this when I see some hard evidence. After all the bogus "Terror Plots" that have been thrown at us in the last couple of years Forest Gate, Sears Tower etc. my trust has been severely eroded.

It seems a little coincidental that John Reid was giving a speech to a think tank yesterday knocking the terror critics who question the governments war on terror saying that "they just don't get it". He also hinted at new anti-terror laws that would require the public to "modify some of our own freedoms in the short term in order to prevent their misuse and abuse by those who oppose our fundamental values and would destroy all of our freedoms in the modern world" [it could almost be a white house press release]. It would seem the political landscape has been suitably primed to smooth the introduction of these new laws.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,1841132,00.html

AS far as this is concerned;

I hate these extremist fcukers and i'm starting to hate the people they come from.
The fcukers are making me racist.

The media have a lot to answer for in this mass shift to the right but then again they couldn't do it if we weren't happy to remain asleep.

Kalashnikov_Kid

Yeah Im sure its all one big conspiracy :rolleyes: Dont think Metro police would want to damage their already quite tarnished reputattion by arresting 18 asians based on a fcuking whim

there is some basis behind these developments and thats enough for me cos im gonna chance it and fcuk it down the M1 to the airport dont want any doubts on security looks like my flight is goin ahead *touches wood*

clown bag and co i would wonder if you would all be so sceptical if you had to spend the next 5 days in London city as opposed to speculating in front of a computer screen

ciao

Dirk Gently

The_Scary_Man wrote:

He also hinted at new anti-terror laws that would require the public to "modify some of our own freedoms in the short term in order to prevent their misuse and abuse by those who oppose our fundamental values and would destroy all of our freedoms in the modern world"

Speaking of modifying freedoms to prevent misuse by the enemy it seems that applies to legal defense teams too. Just slipped under the news Radar recently but Judges will now have increased powers when dismissing defense teams in terror trials if they feel the defense is slowing the process down. The judge can dismiss the defense team and get a whole new team in. Very dangerous move IMO. If it’s hard to prove someones guilt and the trial is dragging out the Judge can just dismiss your legal team and get in a less stubborn defense team.

Innocent until we can find someone too incompetent to defend you?

Kalashnikov_Kid wrote:

clown bag and co i would wonder if you would all be so sceptical if you had to spend the next 5 days in London city as opposed to speculating in front of a computer screen

No doubt I would feel very different if I was caught up in the middle of it all but I think that’s the whole point. I don't feel under threat so I ask questions. If I felt in danger I would be more likely to support drastic measures. I would probably be of the opinion that we should go after the "terrorists" and get them at all costs because they are attacking me. The reason I'm sceptical is because of all the other dramatic false alerts at just the right time to swing public opinion and also because we know deception is part and parcel of the "war on terror". Dodgy dossiers, false intelligence........ I just want to actually see solid intelligence to back up the reasons for all these dramatic security scares which do so much to change public opinion.

Flukey

Well, it proves yet again that the so-called "war on terror" does not exist, but the "war for terror" goes from strength to strength. What I mean is that the activities going on are provoking more terrorism rather than stopping it. Ask the people in London, Madrid and Bali, amongst other places, if the "war on terror" is working. Things are getting worse, not better and the terrorists are being given more reasons, from their perspective, to attack and more propaganda to use to gain recruits.

As we have seen in many places, including Ireland, the way to tackle terrorism is to address the causes, not the perpatrators. Until that is done, nothing will improve. Dropping food parcels in places like Iraq and Afghanistan would do far more damage to Al Q'aida and co than bombs, which are like manna from heaven for them. Every bombed dropped is yet another propaganda victory for them, as another chance to say "look at what they are doing to us, let's get them back."

Helping the ordinary people over there would eliminate that propaganda and begin to hack into the support for the terrorists. Iraqis and Afghanastanis were never going to welcome the allies as liberators when their people are being killed and their homes being destroyed and they are turned into refugees and ripe for terrorist recruitment people. I want all this to stop, but until the underlying causes are tackled, like they were in Ireland and South Africa and other places, nothing will improve.

The plan was to blow up planes in mid-flight using liquid-based explosives. Of course we will now get the usual, "this proves why we should be in Iraq and other places" from the usual suspects on this board, where in reality it proves what being there is doing and how it is increasing the threats that people are under. Will they ever learn? Probably not. Fortunately nothing has happened today and I hope that nothing else does in the future.

Sponge Bob

The securocrats found a 'recipe' for a chemical bomb which is mixed up on the plane itself .

In order for it to be effective 3 chemicals need to be mixed a la James Bonds standard martini order .

They then found some characters in possession of or in suspected possession of or allegedly searching for one of these chemicals (the unusual one in the mix )

There will be no flying with hand baggage between uk- ireland and uk anywhere in europe for a week or so while they put detection systems and procedures in place or so it seems. They only have enough people to search baggage for long hauls until they get a full handle on this 'threat' or alleged 'threat' .

Its also possible that there will be a complete shutdown of Ireland-EU routes by tonight or that hand baggage screening will move outside the terminal in Dublin for capacity reasons. They have to make their minds up before the busy weekend.

It is additionally possible that all UK-Ireland and UK-EU car ferrys will also be affected , stay tuned.

Sgt. Sensible

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

Strange kind of fellow is Reid. Do our fundamental values include hobnobbing with war criminals?

Your point caller?
I highly doubt that Reid would have been aware of Radovans murder fetish back then...
Many UK politicians or those who would become politicians may have crossed paths with undesirables or even feted them at one point or another.Mugabe being one example.

So have people in general,its normal.I've known people who have been sent to jail for crimes,I wouldnt have put them down as capable of,(and I've subsequently changed my opinion of them) ,however by your logic,I'm a strange sort of fellow...

If you want to continue this discussion take it to another thread-this ones for the discussion of a terrorist plot.

MiniMetro

Kalashnikov_Kid wrote:

clown bag and co i would wonder if you would all be so sceptical if you had to spend the next 5 days in London city as opposed to speculating in front of a computer screen

Couldn't agree more. The way some of them are going on you'd swear there hasn't been any terrorist attacks for years. It's all part of the supposedly "lefty"(sceptical about police protecting innocent lives) attitude going around at the moment. "Lefty":"Yeah man I'm so against the war on terror, it's just so not right" Reasonable voice: " So you think that police should have left these 18 or so "loveable rogues" to their own devices?" "Lefty": "Well man I'm just so sceptical myself, people have rights ye know man, ye know"

The islamic extremists will not stop when "the war on terror" has stopped. They have made it clear that they disagree with everything that the West stands for and all our ideals and practices.

metrovelvet

This makes me want to get on a transatlantic just to be defiant.

Look at all the things you cant bring with you now. You cant even bring water on board now.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060810/ts_nm/transport_ba_dc;_ylt=AtFG5Zxu8JJTZkVAZ5ROMiFbbBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3NmxuamZjBHNlYwNyaGw-

MiniMetro

MiniMetro wrote:

Couldn't agree more. The way some of them are going on you'd swear there hasn't been any terrorist attacks for years. It's all part of the supposedly "lefty"(sceptical about police protecting innocent lives) attitude going around at the moment. "Lefty":"Yeah man I'm so against the war on terror, it's just so not right" Reasonable voice: " So you think that police should have left these 18 or so "loveable rogues" to their own devices?" "Lefty": "Well man I'm just so sceptical myself, people have rights ye know man, ye know"

The islamic extremists will not stop when "the war on terror" has stopped. They have made it clear that they disagree with everything that the West stands for and all our ideals and practices.

I for one do acknowledge the need for a lot of security, I just don't think that the recent attacks mean that the police etc can do what they like under the excuse of anti-terrorism if it's not backed up. I don't see what the fuss is - if they had evidence for it and reasonable cause to arrest them then we've said we'd be happy with it. If they don't have evidence and decided to do this as a ploy, then there's an issue. That's all. I'm assuming they must have something since some massive conspiracy on this scale does seem a little pointless, it's just a question of what the evidence was, I guess.

I agree with whoever said they should possibly drop aid instead of bombs since more violence is hardly going to show fundies that violence is wrong. It just gives them more of a cause. At some point it's probably going to turn into a game of who can bomb who the most effectively.

solskjaer20

Small point.....

I always though the BBC didn't use the word "terrorist".

Or did they do away with that?

Trotter

Just wondering.. Im due to fly into Edinburgh from Dublin on saturday. I presume I'll have to check in my phone and a few bits and pieces. Its an Aer lingus flight.

Would ye think the flight will go ahead, and will we be charged full whack for checking the bags in?

To be honest I dont mind putting up with the security procedures. Its necessary.

Dirk Gently

bluewolf wrote:

I'm assuming they must have something since some massive conspiracy on this scale does seem a little pointless, it's just a question of what the evidence was, I guess.

The point of a manufactured threat would be to get public support for the war on perceived terror. Nothing like a good reminder that there are bad guys out there to get the public on side. Alerts like this lead to attitudes like....... "These terrorists hate our way of life, we must get them before they get us" and any calls for restraint are dismissed as "hippy left wing liberal nonsense".

If people are cynical it's only because of so many flimsy and bogus terror alerts in recent years and they always seem to happen when the U.S. or U.K. governments are under pressure. It's up to the Governments to convince us skeptics because they are guilty of crying wolf once to often and have demonstrated that they don't mind knowingly misleading the public when it comes to hyping up the terrorist threat.

If I seen convincing justification for all these dramatic opinion swinging alerts I would be less cynical. Expect hatred for anyone labeled a terrorist by the Governments to increase and expect those calling for more restraint to be ridiculed as lefty hippy conspiracy theorists.

It's a bit early to expect the intelligence services to justify this latest security alert but I hope in the coming days they are more convincing than they have been in the past. It could well turn out to be justified but I just want to see that Justification as it has been lacking in past dramatic scares.

Flukey

MiniMetro wrote:

The islamic extremists will not stop when "the war on terror" has stopped. They have made it clear that they disagree with everything that the West stands for and all our ideals and practices.

Yes, but they might stop when a war on terror starts. As I said above it has not yet done so. From where they are sitting, with bombs raining down on innocent people who have nothing to do with any terrorism, the West stands for that kind of destruction. Until that changes, and real problems are dealt with, of course they are going to attack. Deal with the causes of terrorism, not the perpatrators. 25 years was spent trying to tackle the IRA, with no real success, and with each attempt just getting more recruits for them. It was only when they started talking and dealing with the underlying issues that things began to improve. It is not peaceful yet, but we are a lot better off than in the 70s and 80s and early 90s. Things have improved in South Africa since apartheid was addressed.

Nothing justifies what any terrorist ever does, but it does happen and they feel justified. It is not our freedoms that they are against or anything like that. Most wouldn't know where the west is or much about it. They can see things going on in their own countries though, which the godfathers of terrorism can then use as recruitment excuses. If you were an average Iraqi, would you welcome your house being bombed? If you were in the Lebanon now and your house was levelled, would you, on seeing Israeli troops coming in, go through the rubble of your house, find a kettle, light a fire to boil water and make them some tea? I doubt it. You might however feel like getting back at them. It isn't justified, but that is what is happening. Some former peace-loving people, having seen their homes destroyed and familes and friends killed, will turn to terrorism. It has happened all over the world, including Northern Ireland.

We have to change the perception that people have of the west, by addressing the issues that they have. That is not pampering to terrorism. As has been proved the world over, it is the best way to tackle it. It is not easy and it is a simplistic idea, but until the perception of the west changes, nothing will change, except to get worse. There is no excuse for terrorism, but if we can remove the things that people use as excuses, we will do far more damage to terrorism than any bomb can ever do. If we can address the day to day issues that people have in the middle-east and be seen as a positive influence, then it will make it far more difficult for terrorists to recruit. When that begins to be done, we will have finally fired the opening shots in the war on terror.

metrovelvet

Do you know how much money airlines and businesses lose when this happens? Do you honestly think authorities make this **** up? When are you going to accept that these dicks want US and British citizens to die?

clown bag

clown bag wrote:

If I seen convincing justification

The bombs in London last year werent enough for you? Or the details of who the bombers were ala the new breed of home grown loonie?

for all these dramatic opinion swinging alerts I would be less cynical.

Personally I've never swung my opinion on Alqueda,its always been the same.

Cardinal

Skeptics are very quick to assume that every "foiled terrorist plot" is some attempt and garnering support for a reduction in civil liberties. What do ye think is the governments motive in wanting to reduce civil liberties? How is it of benefit to the government?

The_Scary_Man

MiniMetro wrote:

Couldn't agree more. The way some of them are going on you'd swear there hasn't been any terrorist attacks for years. It's all part of the supposedly "lefty"(sceptical about police protecting innocent lives) attitude going around at the moment. "Lefty":"Yeah man I'm so against the war on terror, it's just so not right" Reasonable voice: " So you think that police should have left these 18 or so "loveable rogues" to their own devices?" "Lefty": "Well man I'm just so sceptical myself, people have rights ye know man, ye know"

I love the way the "Lefty" says "ye know" and "yeah man" a lot and he's debating with the "Reasonable Voice"

Look I haven't seen anyone here saying that we should allow potential terrorists to roam free. For my part I am asking the question "Are the US and UK governments using the threat of terrorist attacks to further their own agendas?"

This has happened before, I remember having this same debate with some friends after Forest Gate. I realise that I'm not privy to all the information but who is?

The islamic extremists will not stop when "the war on terror" has stopped. They have made it clear that they disagree with everything that the West stands for and all our ideals and practices.

This is just paranoid bull****, you do realise that there are christian fundamentalists in influential positions in the US government who advocate invading sovereign states, overthrowing their governments and replacing them with US style democracies? They don't mind how many die along the way because they disagree with everything that Islam stands for and all its ideals and practices. So how is one extremism and the other is discussed as government policy?

There are extremists on both sides of this conflict and thankfully they are in the minority. Its the reponsibility of the rest of us to try to push for a viable alternative solution to this conflict.

gandalf

I am glad that this plot has been uncovered and foiled. What I am saying is they should release proper details about it so people will not get cynical and believe the conspiracy theories that all this is being done to propagate a feeling of fear.

What this should do is hopefully aid the demise of Blair, confirming that his lapdoggery has made the UK an even bigger target than it was before.

Flukey has hit the nail on the head, until you address the issues that create the support for these extremists you cannot win the "War on Terror". The fact these extremists have forced the authorities hands and have them changing laws means they are winning the "War on Terror".

All the current misadventures are doing is making sure the next generation of extremist nutters have plenty of support for their actions.

Flukey

Flukey wrote:

25 years was spent trying to tackle the IRA, with no real success, and with each attempt just getting more recruits for them. It was only when they started talking and dealing with the underlying issues that things began to improve.

I'll agree with the talking to them point but as regards the IRA stopping their bombing,I'll say that was entirely due to the fact that (a) it didnt suit Sinn Féins political ambitions and (b) the clamp down in the U.S on terrorism was going to bleed the IRA's support there dry.

The_Scary_Man wrote:

This is just paranoid bull****, you do realise that there are christian fundamentalists in influential positions in the US government who advocate invading sovereign states, overthrowing their governments and replacing them with US style democracies? They don't mind how many die along the way because they disagree with everything that Islam stands for and all its ideals and practices. So how is one extremism and the other is discussed as government policy?

There are extremists on both sides of this conflict and thankfully they are in the minority. Its the reponsibility of the rest of us to try to push for a viable alternative solution to this conflict.

I'd like to think,that ultimately in the west and even America that reason overcomes extremism eventually including its influence in government.
Reason ruled for the most part under Clinton.
Today look where Bushes ratings are? They are in the toilet where they should be.Theres always an ultimate sanction towards elected political extremism in a democracy.
Theres none with the likes of Alqueda and thats a very important distinction.

Remember any action I've seen lately from Alqueda especially in the west has been a deliberate visit of death and distruction on civilians,innocent women and children.
Theres no ambiguity whatsoever.They are lead by total lunatics past the point of talking.
Those in the general populus who are sometimes misled by that madness guidance are at least the ones that we should be talking to and thinking about accomadating in my view.

bill_ashmount

clown bag wrote:

If people are cynical it's only because of so many flimsy and bogus terror alerts in recent years and they always seem to happen when the U.S. or U.K. governments are under pressure. It's up to the Governments to convince us skeptics because they are guilty of crying wolf once to often and have demonstrated that they don't mind knowingly misleading the public when it comes to hyping up the terrorist threat.

If I seen convincing justification for all these dramatic opinion swinging alerts I would be less cynical. Expect hatred for anyone labeled a terrorist by the Governments to increase and expect those calling for more restraint to be ridiculed as lefty hippy conspiracy theorists.

Madrid and London bombings???? Or were these made up by the government as well for their own ends....

TheAlmightyArse

"We've got to get these mother****ing hand-luggages off this mother****ing plane!"

With apologies to Mr. Samuel L. Jackson.

daveg

I think they will release details once the dust has settled and they are sure that they have foiled the plot (and plan B is not about to be enacted).

I think it's time for a drastic change to all airline security. Whatever is takes to make flying safe. If that means no hand luggage so biet. Mandetory finger printing on passports.

I was listening to a anti-terrorism expert on the radio today (the guy who is always on sky news). Seems that it is pysically impossible to seach all handluggage. In the USA (he said) ALL checked luggage is hand checked. I found this hard to believe (even though I have winessed it in LAX). Semmingly handluggage is dangerous because the most vunerable part of an aircraft are the windows/fire on board. If that happens on a plane it is going down.

At the end of the day my opinion is they should now take drastic action to ensure flying is as safe as possible.