Whats the country coming too?

Dragan

On Sunday i arrived back in Dublin and was walked along the Luas line, past Stephens Green. I passed three guys, all about 18 to 19 and all appeared to be local Dublin guys.

As i passed one them said "F*ck off back to Poland you foreign c*nt". I stopped and turned around said "I'm not from Poland you ****ing retard, I'm Irish".

Now then, it would seem that being tall, big and muscular and having a shaved head is now enough for some people to assume that you are foreign.

The guy stopped and his mates turned around and he was all apologies, "Sorry bud, ya look like one of them, ya know?" , with that he put his hand out to shake mine.

I looked at his hand, looked him eye and said, "I'm not shaking your hand you racist pr*ck, now f*ck off". Okay, not the smartest thing in the world but this had bothered me, some of my friends are Polish and i don't like the thought of this stuff going on.

Your man went red with anger, but i kept looking him straight in the eye, smiling my favourite smile and he eventually realised he and his mates lacked the balls to do anything and walked off.

It worries me that the country i love seems to be running to such open racism....this is not the first time i have witnessed such a display in public but it is the first time i had it (mis)directed towards myself and quite so overt.

The thing is that i can only see things getting worse.

Karl Hungus

Hmm, I think the type of lads who would randomly shout something like that were just looking for a fight. That could've been anyone for any reason, and I think maybe because you might've looked Polish in their eyes, that was a good way to try and start a fight with you.

I've also seen the auld "Sorry bud..." and offer the hand tactic. I'd bet that if you did take his hand, you would've got a swift headbutt from him. It's a sneaky little tactic to catch you offguard, and it's been tried on me a few times before. You were right to stare them off, they're not much without their cowardly little tricks.

Anyway, I don't think this is really a case of racism as such, just the usual ****ing scumbags looking for any excuse for a fight.

Ruu_Old

Phew I probably wouldn't have talked *too much* back to those sort of lovely people as I'm a skinny chap. I guess there are people who are looking for a reaction. Its probably going to get much worse before getting better unfortunately.

Dragan

Karl Hungus wrote:

Anyway, I don't think this is really a case of racism as such, just the usual ****ing scumbags looking for any excuse for a fight.

Tbh if they wanted to fight all they had to do was ask.

It was the usual group of three, one mouth, on quiet one, one obviously scared one. No way was i shaking the hand, you'd need to be an idiot to fall for that....and i had much better range than they did so i was happy enough to let me feelings be known to them.

Nighttime i may have rethought things, but during the day i would have been happy enough to go tbh.

biko

OP, a few skangers having a go at you in Dublin (where else) does not equal "the country is falling apart". Good man for staring them down though.

Spitfire666

Dragan wrote:

Tbh if they wanted to fight all they had to do was ask.

It was the usual group of three, one mouth, on quiet one, one obviously scared one. No way was i shaking the hand, you'd need to be an idiot to fall for that....and i had much better range than they did so i was happy enough to let me feelings be known to them.

Nighttime i may have rethought things, but during the day i would have been happy enough to go tbh.

I've seen that hand shake thing before, the fool actualy turned to his mates while putting out the hand sniggering. funny thing was my mate seen that before and knew what he was at so went to shake his hand but moved when he swung the head and the guy hit a brick wall. needless to say his mates paniced at the site of the blood and we strolled off.

Dragan

biko wrote:

OP, a few skangers having a go at you in Dublin (where else) does not equal "the country is falling apart". Good man for staring them down though.

It wasn't that fact that they had a go....just that i had never really seen such an overt show of racism until now. It just kinda of caught me by suprise i suppose.

Especailly as i am begining to see more and more of it, and people walking around with t-shirts saying all sorts, the change in graffiti on the walls etc.

It's all just seems to be coming to a head is all.

And the only reason i stared them down is cuz i'm too stupid to leave it be!!

ferdi

Dragan wrote:

Tbh if they wanted to fight all they had to do was ask.

jesus man, your well hard.

Archeron

the assholes are at it more now because so many more people are coming to Ireland who look different to us, but I think its always been there. They just used to think that white skin must equal Irish people so were never as vocal about it. Dimwitted sh*tes.

Remember many moons ago, (when I was about 9) I came home from a 2 day school holiday in Wales. We arrived back in Dublin at about 7.00am and were all lined up ready to get on our coaches to bring us home. At this point, two ENGLISH guys, told us to f*ck off back to Wales! And this was to a bunch of 9 year old school kids from Coolock! In fairness, one of the teachers with us was a big scary dude, and I think he might have threatened them as they went very pale, very quick and ran.

Karl Hungus

Spitfire666 wrote:

I've seen that hand shake thing before, the fool actualy turned to his mates while putting out the hand sniggering. funny thing was my mate seen that before and knew what he was at so went to shake his hand but moved when he swung the head and the guy hit a brick wall. needless to say his mates paniced at the site of the blood and we strolled off.

Haha! Nice one.

The most I did was trip a fellow tried the whole handshake trick on me.

Dragan

ferdi wrote:

jesus man, your well hard.

Cheers :rolleyes: ....it's not really being "well hard" it's just standing up for yourself my friend.

Degsy

I had something similar happen to me recently.I was walking across halpenny bridge with a friend when i noticed teh street up ahead seemed to be blocked,i said to my friend "Oh not again.last time it was a ****ing parade",whereupon this horrible,skinny,manky looking female tracksuit head said "well if ya dont like it ya can go back to yer own country".I was too stunned to say anything back,nobody could be in any doubt from my accent that i'm from dublin and i wasnt aware that having a shaved head was enough to countermand this and make me a "foreigner".People are just idiots i guess.

Karl Hungus

Shut up and feck off back to Albania, Degsy. You're not fooling anyone with that poxy 'Dublin' accent of yours.

Degsy

Karl Hungus wrote:

Shut up and feck off back to Albania, Degsy. You're not fooling anyone with that poxy 'Dublin' accent of yours.

But..but..how did you know??

Flukey

There are plenty of idiots like that around. Half of them probably wouldn't know where Poland is, or much about it. I bet if some gorgeous blonde Polish girl was to walk by, they wouldn't be telling her to go back to Poland.

Dooom

Dragan wrote:

On Sunday i arrived back in Dublin and was walked along the Luas line, past Stephens Green..

Hmm, you wouldn't per chance be about 6'3 or so and wearing a dark tshirt at the time would you?

abetarrush

ye shudda put ur fist to his face n said KISS ME OR I CRUSH YOU


Or just knock the fvcker out

Kaiser_Sma

I remeber when i first came to this country in 98', i was in 5th year. The site of one black man passing the school gates was enough to garner he attentions of the entire school yard.

Under exposure is the problem in alot of cases but the poles have gotten an awfully bad reputation in recent times. But that'll change once they aclimatize. Both the polish and the people who judge them

FranknFurter

I've come across such crap before, Im Irish but still have a bit of a London hint to my voice from time to time from living there as a young'un.
Same with the "gay" sh1t and the crap they come out with about how ya look.

Usually I do the same and stand my ground, way I see it, if anything did go wrong, one flick of my thumb and well,....theres nothing like a full-force 10mph electric wheelchair aiming straight for the knees to make em run
(Tried and tested method)
(Anyone whos ever had so much as a toe run over by an elec wheelchair can confirm )

b

nikorami

Personally I have experienced the worst examples of racism here in this country than any other. Not just against me, but against co workers and friends. It reminds me of racism against blacks in America years ago. Some valid points brought up is the lack of exposure and teaching. This is one of the main reasons I am moving my family from this country. The repeated hatefulness of the majority of people I have dealt with. And I mean MAJORITY...I am not talking about one or two random folks. Iam talking about people at stores where I shop, work, services, etc. It has come to the point where I have even felt unsafe. I do not travel into the city nor do I venture to unknown areas. The worst part is it seems as if the issue is largely ignored by govt, schools, etc. I feel that there is something going to come to a boil and there is going to be a serious issue one of these days. I am just glad I will be somewhere else when it happens.

Dudess

Nikorami, that's really sh*t. Sorry you've had to experience all that horror. I would have thought that most of us weren't so despicable but obviously I was wrong. If you can't even venture into town anymore, then I don't blame you for leaving Ireland. You're probably right. It'll take something massive, like rioting (look at Notting Hill, Brixton and others in the UK; Paris only recently), for the issue to be recognised by the authorities.

Terry

nikorami, I'm sorry to hear that you have experienced a level of racism that makes you want ot leave Ireland. i can only hope things change for the better for both you and this country.
i find that lots of people who worked in england in the 70's and 80's are fairly hateful towards black people. it's almost as if they decided they wanted to fit in with the white english racists out of fear of being abused for being Irish and then just brought their racism home with them and passed it onto their children.
also, some people are just arseholes.

Dudess

Obvious thing to say, but it blows my mind that the Irish, of all people, could be so racist. People seem to have forgotten the sh*t that many Irish immigrants had to put up with in the UK. And also in the US.

Terry

you're dead right.
people seem to hav short memories when it comes to this.
i blame the internet.

Dudess

abetarrush wrote:

ye shudda put ur fist to his face n said KISS ME OR I CRUSH YOU

LOL!!! Except isn't that expression only used by female Eastern European shot-putters?

Elessar

My God, some people actually have different opinions.

News at 11

Dudess

I don't get you, Elessar.

InFront

Dudess wrote:

LOL!!! Except isn't that expression only used by female Eastern European shot-putters?

Scary image there:eek:

Nikorami, sorry to hear about your experience. Do you live in Dublin? Most Irish people are not racist, that's my opinion.
What do you mean by hatefulness? I think they're just not used to speaking to someone who has a different skin colour or a different accent. It sounds silly, but it's true. Often they will not willingly speak to you, instigate a conversation or engage with you, but once you make an effort with them they tend to forget what you look like and be more forward (I think). It's almost like a shyness imo. Once you start talking to them, it's OK.

However, if you have reason to be in the city past ten o'clock at night there are guys that spring up every couple of hundred metres on the street who will inevitably spew racial abuse. I dont think that between the hours of 10pm and 2am, Thurs - Sunday you could walk from O'Connell Street to St Stephen's Green Luas without getting verbal abuse. But you have to appreciate that for what it is, whoch is cowardly, ugly and probably fuelled by alcohol. It might be racist, but I dont think it's a deep hatred. Not that that makes it better.

As for your kids, I think kids are the least racist of all people in this country. They are, more than previous generations, growing up alongside 1st generation Irish black/ Asian/ Russian children here. Your kids will probably experience a lot less of the abuse than you will.

There is a definite issue of racism here in Ireland. I doubt anyone would argue that. But before this turns into an essay, I'd say maybe re-examine your problem with Irish people, and think are acting hateful to you, is it your job? Most people dealing with people in this country experience rudeness, it's maybe not the culture you are used to? Ireland is not always as friendly as you may have heard about!:)

I don't think the majority of Irish people have a hatred of foreign people is my point. Don't read too much After Hours!:)

Cardinal

Dudess wrote:

Obvious thing to say, but it blows my mind that the Irish, of all people, could be so racist. People seem to have forgotten the sh*t that many Irish immigrants had to put up with in the UK. And also in the US.

Irish people never had to deal with having large amounts of people from different cultural backgrounds in their country. That's the reason there's so much racism at the moment.

Terry

i think that's one of the reasons, but i'm sure there are plenty more factors involved.

Dragan

Spike wrote:

Hmm, you wouldn't per chance be about 6'3 or so and wearing a dark tshirt at the time would you?

The height is spot on.....can't remember what type of t-shirt i was wearing, would have had a shaved head and sunglasses on, and a navy bag on my back!

Wow, it would be cool to have been THAT close to a fellow boardsie!!!

Dooom

Dragan wrote:

The height is spot on.....can't remember what type of t-shirt i was wearing, would have had a shaved head and sunglasses on, and a navy bag on my back!

Wow, it would be cool to have been THAT close to a fellow boardsie!!!

Aha! Wasn't me that was there, but a friend of mine was telling me about this the other day!
He thought you were actually going to shake the skobe's hand, and he was all ready to back you up had something gone down.
He couldn't stop laughing when you told him to f*ck off and kept staring at him.

empirix

Dudess wrote:

Nikorami, that's really sh*t. Sorry you've had to experience all that horror. I would have thought that most of us weren't so despicable but obviously I was wrong. If you can't even venture into town anymore, then I don't blame you for leaving Ireland. You're probably right. It'll take something massive, like rioting (look at Notting Hill, Brixton and others in the UK; Paris only recently), for the issue to be recognised by the authorities.

Dude, while i welcome our foreign friends in with open arms, if these lads went on a riot the whole racism thing would get a hell of a lot worse here, it s just the Irish attitude, we feel threatened about invasion, the RA would probably reform!!
Its the worst thing that our new friends could do, I say give it time, things will get better, some people just need more time to adjust

And as for the 3 scumbags on the green, well theres always going to be a few of these characters around, personally i wouldn't give them the time of day, let them rot in the dole queue

Dragan

Spike wrote:

He thought you were actually going to shake the skobe's hand, and he was all ready to back you up had something gone down.

That pretty cool of him dude, not many people would give a crap about a stranger in the street like that!!!

Dooom

Dragan wrote:

That pretty cool of him dude, not many people would give a crap about a stranger in the street like that!!!

Indeed, there was an incident a while ago where 4 scumbags where trying to intimidate one guy and wouldn't let him pass without him giving them some smokes. We both crossed the street and stood beside the victim with arms crossed, and just looked at the scumbags.
Both of us have martial arts experience, and we can hold our own in a scrap (although he's been a kick-boxer a lot longer than I have ).
As soon as the skobes saw they weren't getting away with anything, the leader who was doing all the talking looked at his mates, who looked like they'd just shìt themselves. The lead started to walk off, his mates in tow, but a few feet away he turns and says "ye'd better run lads, or else my brudder'll fùck ye up".
My friend looks at him and says "Right so, we'll be here." The skobe looked somewhat taken aback and didn't know what to say, so my friend just takes two steps forward towards him. I've never seen someone jump so high and go so white.

It's surprising how cowardly these guys actually are, especially when they realise that there's people who have no qualms about kicking their ass in.

Naked Lepper

biko wrote:

OP, a few skangers having a go at you in Dublin (where else) does not equal "the country is falling apart". Good man for staring them down though.

in my experience, you will find alot more racism outside dublin than in dublin. remember that dublin is the main melting pot of the country and is definetly alot more diverse than most irish towns.

Dragan

Spike wrote:

It's surprising how cowardly these guys actually are, especially when they realise that there's people who have no qualms about kicking their ass in.

yeah, they need to out number you to feel comfortable but when you start showing them that your not worried, THEY start to get worried.

Simple fact is that if me and two of my mates were giving a long guy crap, and he was being cool as a cucumber i would really worry about why and get the hell out of there!!!

A bit of confidence goes a long way....they way i see it is that it will be a fight if they want to make it one regardless of what i do. Might as well make them worry, and if they go i will make damn sure they remember it!!!

Dooom

Exactly. Even if you're ****ting a brick, all you have to do is stand your ground. Of course there are exceptions when using your legs is a far better choice.
In the couple of fights I've been in, I've never fought dirty. Although sometimes the swift kick to the nads or the shins could be very satisfying!

Karl Hungus

Dragan wrote:

yeah, they need to out number you to feel comfortable but when you start showing them that your not worried, THEY start to get worried.

Indeed. They're the biggest cowards out there, and I find that one sure fire way to make them **** themselves is to just say straight out to them, come on, hit me so, go right ahead.

Strangely enough, nobody has ever had the guts to do it.

I find people who really want to hurt you will just come straight out and attack you. The kind of scumbag who needs to start threatening you first is just trying to guage whether or not you'll be an easy target.

Dragan

Karl Hungus wrote:

I find people who really want to hurt you will just come straight out and attack you. The kind of scumbag who needs to start threatening you first is just trying to guage whether or not you'll be an easy target.

Bingo, the times people genuinely wanted to do me damage there was nothing i could do about it because i never saw it comin'!

Dermington

Did you tell them about crossfit?

Dragan

Dermington wrote:

Did you tell them about crossfit?

Nah.....the last thing i want is healthy, physically able and well rounded scumbags!!!!

Degsy

Its like an interview with these scumbags.they say "have you got the time" or "give us a smoke" or other random question designed to test your willingness to defend yourself.If you mutter to your feet of look frightened in the slightest the chances of getting jumped go through the roof.Cowards dont like people who fight back,they'll all go for a weak target.

Beruthiel

If it were just knackers that would be something, but I believe it's everywhere.
It is where I work and it is where my b/f works.
He's french and works for a large company.
After a meeting one day two of his work collegues started complaining about the amount of foreginers in the country, he pointed out that he was one of those 'foreginers'. They tried to back track by saying he didn't count, when he asked why they muttered something about the french being in Europe longer.
These sort of comments coming from so called 'intelligent' people annoy the hell out of me. Any time I hear it (which is at least every couple of weeks) I tend to point out the 40 million irish Descendants all over this planet, how is this different or are we Irish special?

I've experienced this for a while yet when I tell people they usually say to get over it or something as if it's nothing. This attitude just makes the racist behaviour seem acceptable. It's bad enough if you really are foreign but like the OP, I'm Irish and it does my head in when people say stuff like 'go back to where you came from.' It's so bloody ignorant. I feel so self conscious now, every time I talk to someone I wonder if they're thinking I'm foreign and don't belong, every time I go for a job and don't get it I wonder if it's because I look foreign. The thing is, I think most of the time people DON'T care, but once you have it in your head that people can be racist against you it's hard not to be paranoid. I just find I have to block it out as much as possible because your appearance/race is the one thing you can't change. I love being in Paris and London and walking around knowing nobody gives a crap where my parents might come from. It's pretty sad that I feel I belong more in FRANCE than my own country.

cornbb

My grandparents (in their late 70s) were walking one day here in Limerick when a few skobes (in fairness they were only kids) on bikes came flying past on bikes. My grandad gave them a 'look' as they were on the footpath, they nearly knocked my grandparents down even though there was a cycle path right there.

So they flung the bikes down and swaggered over, started spitting on the ground, etc... So my grandmother came at them with her umbrella and they scattered like fleas

Man, wish I could have seen it...

Dermington

Dragan wrote:

Nah.....the last thing i want is healthy, physically able and well rounded scumbags!!!!

k

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Degsy thats a good explanation. Well assuming we can all distinguish between some scumbag and an actually bonified Sham/Pikey (ie the sort of i would knock out a bull with one punch pikey) what would you say if some scumbag asked you for a smoke or whatever? And assuming he decided to be a c*nt what would you do about it?

btw no hero answers.

dr.bollocko

I must say I respect Dragans stance on this one.
U know a lot of ppl are physically intimidated into walking away from something when it fills them with anger, rage even at how these people can get away with their small minded attitudes, just because they have a small-minded mate to back them up.
Im just fed up of walking away from prejudice rather than grabbing it by its dirty small-minded jugular.
I have no tolerance for this kind of moron, I guess I built up this backburner of anger about it over a number of years of doing just that, walking away when I felt I should have said something.
Before I started working out, i had lost track of the number of times I stopped myself from saying something, to some skobe on the street, to a small-minded taxi driver, to work colleagues, etc. Now, I hate to say it, but any and all added muscle does relax me enough to say what I feel and break the fear cycle.

But I have come to the conclusion that while might never means right, it can certainly help in untying tongues when something needs to be said.

I often wasnt able to sleep for thinking "Why did I hold back there?"
Now, since I have a bit more muscle, and Im not short, I do definitely feel that I can say more in defence of my opinions and get away with. Being right, being heard, and being intimidating are always going to be clashing in an argument, but one day I just got fed up of being intimidated, fed up of being scared.
Now I am an evil Doctor with a psychic Nipple, and as such, I have a solution for the rest of ye, willing to follow the anti-prejudice path, but not willing to follow my path towards evil super-villainy.

So my solution, we train, or breed, or genetically engineer an army of strong, well-trained brutal looking enforcers of anti-discrimination laws. (This is a sort of a solution to the policing problem too..)
Its something i would love to see stamped out completely and forever. I mean, here are these people coming to the country and prospering, and the most our most vocal inhabitants can come up with is some lame slur designed to incite hatred, looking for a fight.
So these are the people we will target with our mighty clone army.
Dragan, U can be Boba Fett.

If I get to be Han solo.

Dragan

Dermington wrote:

Degsy thats a good explanation. Well assuming we can all distinguish between some scumbag and an actually bonified Sham/Pikey (ie the sort of i would knock out a bull with one punch pikey) what would you say if some scumbag asked you for a smoke or whatever? And assuming he decided to be a c*nt what would you do about it?

btw no hero answers.

I grew up with two Travellers, and everywhere i go i seem to get on very well with the community and i can honestly say that not all Travellers are hard as nails....that just an image thing. The do seem to walk around in dozens though, so be careful that way.

If you get asked for a smoke/time whatever, just say "Sorry" stay walking, don't look down, just look at them, say "Sorry bud" and stay going. It's not dismishing them, showing fear.

If they step up and block your path they want something, you need to find out what it is and decide if you are willing to part with it. If your willing to do so then do and move away and hope the leave you alone.

If your not you need to realise you will most likely have to physically get rid of them, be it intimidation or knocking the crap out of them.

If i say no and they want to go ( please note that saying know would be hugely influenced by situation, time, location, how many of them there were, other people on the road and the vibe i got off them to name a few things ) then fine.....i only said no because i was willing to go so i'm not worried about it.

The incident that i started the thread over, as i said it was day light, crowded city center, one obviously scared guy, two guys a lot smaller, a lot weaker and with considerably less reach than me. I have enough training to be happy that a punch i throw and land is gonna have an effect and i had a bag on my bag, looped through my hand and free for an easy swing.

The quite one would have got the bag in the face, the mouthy one a kick in the nuts and the quite one a stare, because i was more than happy to be he would have done nothing.

It's all about the situation at the time.

Degsy

Dermington wrote:

k

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Degsy thats a good explanation. Well assuming we can all distinguish between some scumbag and an actually bonified Sham/Pikey (ie the sort of i would knock out a bull with one punch pikey) what would you say if some scumbag asked you for a smoke or whatever? And assuming he decided to be a c*nt what would you do about it?

btw no hero answers.

There's no clear answers to a "what if.." like that.You've got to judge a situation on its merits.First off are you bigger than the bloke,is there a few of them,do they look like they can handle themselves,are they drunk or stoned,where is this happening,are they actually spoiling for a row or just being smart-arses??Nine times out of ten the pricks have no balls and wont get physical if you stand up to them.If this is happening in dublin,use your best Duuublin accent when you're replying to them,look them in the eye show you're not afraid and you've allready put them on the back foot,you could also (as dragan did) give them a smile..it can be disarming,especially an evil grin,you could also pretend to be slightly mental,scumbags are terrified of madmen..the list goes on and on...

Dermington

I was just wondering what the common approach was.

I'm 6'3", 225lb's and played a lot of rugby etc so I know how strong I am and what I can do but I still have to say I just cant bring myself to get physical about it. The norm for someone like me is to be a big loud f*ckin eejit but because I'm not like that I just cant be physically agressive with people. Obvious exceptions but some tosser bumming a cig off me isnt really worth me breaking him. :mad: