What's the problem around here with Irish Americans?

pvt. joker

I see a ton of BS posted here about americans who claim irish heritage. I don't really see what the discussion is about. I'm irish, that's where my family came from. America is where i live. The only people who truly are american are native americans. It doesn't mean i run around with a ****ing shillelagh looking for pots of gold.

As for the "stupid american" comments because random tourists don't know how to get from new quay to connemarra or how many cows farmer mcmillan has...do you guys know every single piece of american history? Can you tell me how to get from pa to tx or what residents of lancaster are known as? Don't confuse ignorance with stupidity. Contrary to what you guys think, Americans in public schools learn almost NOTHING about ireland besides a lot of you died 100 years ago.

discuss

Ruu_Old

You were born in America, weren't you? That would mean you are American, certainly not Irish.

pvt. joker

Ruu wrote:

You were born in America, weren't you? That would mean you are American, certainly not Irish.

we're talking heritage. the only people that truly have american heritage are native americans. everyone else is imported.

pvt. joker

this will really annoy the irish elitists

https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/journey.html

Ruu_Old

You said you were Irish, untrue. Have you an Irish passport even?

pvt. joker

Ruu wrote:

You said you were Irish, untrue. Have you an Irish passport even?

if a person were to analyze my dna, they would find that my early ancestors crawled out of the primordial ooze somewhere around ireland. how's that?

Ruu_Old

What has your ancestors got to do with it, its you we are talking about. You were born in America and you aren't Irish, why can't you accept it and move on?

pvt. joker

Ruu wrote:

What has your ancestors got to do with it, its you we are talking about. You were born in America and you aren't Irish, why can't you accept it and move on?

you guys can't understand the difference between heritage and country of birth. if you moved to spain and had a kid, would that kid be spanish or irish? would he pop out dark and want to fight bulls?

Goodshape

Everyone comes from somewhere, tbh. My own heritage, as far as I know, can be traced back to France (or was it Spain?) if you go far enough and England fairly recently. My father was actually born in Canada to an English father and Irish mother. So what does that make me?

It doesn't make me anything, it just explains my heritage. I'm Irish because I was born here, have lived here most of my life, hold an Irish passport, pay Irish taxes, etc. etc.

All that aside, it doesn't really bother me - but it can get a bit tiring. And I think the 'stupid American' comments can mostly be put down to the fact that Irish people are, by and large, a sarky bunch. I would try not to take most of too seriously if I were you. There's always the odd prejudice ****er, but mostly these things are just said 'for the laugh', or to get a rise out of you lot.

Rb

pvt. joker wrote:

shillelagh

A what?

Ruu_Old

What Goodshape said. Just because your great, great, great grandad of your grandads grandad on your parents side was Irish does not make you Irish. Irish heritage may be in your families history but thats about it.

Dirk Gently

pvt. joker wrote:

we're talking heritage. the only people that truly have american heritage are native americans. everyone else is imported.

Imported from where? What heritage, from which time span do you refer. Where Europeans always indigenous to Western Europe or did we migrate North West of another point of origin. How long must a people remain in a geographical location before they gain squatters rights? What geographical location did modern man as a species originate from and are all the rest of us simply imported to our current locations while sharing a common ancestry?
What is a true American heritage? The Incas? The Aztec? The Spanish? The English? The French? Consumerism? At what point do you draw a line, how far back do you go until you agree on what a Native American is?

Are you American or are you Irish or are you a celt or are you a Roman or anglo saxon or african in origin? If it was possible to analyise your dna would your origin be on the Island of Ireland?

You are who you choose to be and country of birth is a handy way of making you a legal citizen of the country you happened to be born in. You're an American, get over it.

Our man in Havana

You not an Irish-American unless your entiled to or hold an Irish passport.

Black Swan

What's the song from that old Popeye cartoon? Maybe there is a message there for us regarding this thread?

"I'm Popeye the sailor man (or woman*),
I'm Popeye the sailor man (or woman),
(Some lyrics about spinach...)
I am what I am,
And that's all I am,
I'm Popeye the sailor man (or woman)"

Toot, toot!

Now, did Popeye get it right? Huh?






*OK, I am trying to be inclusive...and want everybody to sing along and not feel left out.

Goodshape

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

"I'm Popeye the sailor man (or woman*),
I'm Popeye the sailor man (or woman),
(Some lyrics about spinach...)
I am what I am,
And that's all I am,
I'm Popeye the sailor man (or woman)"

Sam Vimes

pvt. joker wrote:

I see a ton of BS posted here about americans who claim irish heritage. I don't really see what the discussion is about. I'm irish, that's where my family came from. America is where i live. The only people who truly are american are native americans. It doesn't mean i run around with a ****ing shillelagh looking for pots of gold.

As for the "stupid american" comments because random tourists don't know how to get from new quay to connemarra or how many cows farmer mcmillan has...do you guys know every single piece of american history? Can you tell me how to get from pa to tx or what residents of lancaster are known as? Don't confuse ignorance with stupidity. Contrary to what you guys think, Americans in public schools learn almost NOTHING about ireland besides a lot of you died 100 years ago.

discuss

if they don't know how to get where they're going that's one thing, but if they ask how we irish survive without electricity that's quite another

pvt. joker wrote:

if a person were to analyze my dna, they would find that my early ancestors crawled out of the primordial ooze somewhere around ireland. how's that?

that wouldn't make you irish. if you go back far enough we're all from africa. doesn't mean i can call myself an african.

and if you go back far enough the native americans aren't from america. they walked across the ice from asia.

who is irish in your family?

elexes

pvt. joker wrote:

I see a ton of BS posted here about americans who claim irish heritage. I don't really see what the discussion is about. I'm irish, that's where my family came from. America is where i live.

so you were born in ireland and lived here for many a year . well then yep ur right totally irish

The only people who truly are american are native americans. It doesn't mean i run around with a ****ing shillelagh looking for pots of gold.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shillelagh ive still no clue as to what your trying to say

As for the "stupid american" comments because random tourists don't know how to get from new quay to connemarra or how many cows farmer mcmillan has...do you guys know every single piece of american history?

cant ever rember any american asking me how many cows somone has. if they did i would think they were very weird. as for finding a place in ireland i doubt anyone here has slagged a american cause they couldnt find a place in ireland. its well known that the roads here are very badly laid out and signposted

Can you tell me how to get from pa to tx or what residents of lancaster are known as? Don't confuse ignorance with stupidity.

to my knowlage theres more then one place in america with initals pa and tx ull have to be more specific are you on about byrn maw in texas but then again where in tx are you going to

Contrary to what you guys think, Americans in public schools learn almost NOTHING about ireland besides a lot of you died 100 years ago.

why would they ? yes lots of us die every day . the famine was a bad point in irish history much like the slavery time period in the us.


i dont understand what ur trying to say with your spiel about dna . im sure the american goverment have strict rules and reg's as to what sort of conditions need to be applied first before you are classed as american the same as ireland and im pritty sure that they dont look at your dna when doing so.

DamienH

ye olde shilleigh. One of them little leprachaun sticks From my reading I don't think your irish either, do you have a passport?

super_furry

It's really all down to the fact that it's become acceptable to slag off America and Americans ever since George Bush took charge of the country. His policies, attitude, hostility and downright ignorance has created a feeling of ill-will among most people towards America and it manifests itself in things like this.

Karl Hungus

pvt. joker wrote:

It doesn't mean i run around with a ****ing shillelagh looking for pots of gold.

And why not, huh? What's wrong with that? You say you're Irish, but you don't take part in the Irish National pass-time? For shame! Clearly your disrespect for Irish tradition is why people don't consider you Irish.

Goodshape

elexes wrote:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shillelagh ive still no clue as to what your trying to say

I've actually got a shillelagh in the house.. hasn't everyone? I thought they were mandatory.. entirely necessary for fighting off the evil leprechauns when you're searching for the gold, t' be sure.

cournioni

No Irish passport = Not Irish.

It's just that simple.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

nobody wants to be American anymore... too much hassle when traveling and too many people pulling the pi#s out of them.

yer yanks...that's it.

Dyr

I like septics doing the irish-american thing so long as they irish-american responsibly. No riverdancing or wolly geansai wearing

Much better than irish people irish-britishing anyway

Archeron

Bambi wrote:

I like septics doing the irish-american thing so long as they irish-american responsibly. No riverdancing or wolly geansai wearing

Much better than irish people irish-britishing anyway

Is Wolly Geansai that martial arts master from the Welsh highlands?

Dragan

pvt. joker wrote:

you guys can't understand the difference between heritage and country of birth. if you moved to spain and had a kid, would that kid be spanish or irish? would he pop out dark and want to fight bulls?

He's be ****ing Spanish because he's born in goddamn Spain.....his parents would be Irish.

Pretty clear don't ya think!!!

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

Dragan wrote:

He's be ****ing Spanish because he's born in goddamn Spain.....his parents would be Irish.

Pretty clear don't ya think!!!

to everybody else it is clear....

but your talking to a yank.

Dyr

he'd be irish-spanish and no doubt entitled to an irish passport if he wanted one, thus making him as irish as you, me or brendan grace.

yiz thick paddies :mad:

Dyr

Archeron wrote:

Is Wolly Geansai that martial arts master from the Welsh highlands?

No, thats wyoloch gwynssi. Not the same at all, at all

Dragan

Bambi wrote:

he'd be irish-spanish and no doubt entitled to an irish passport if he wanted one, thus making him as irish as you, me or brendan grace.

yiz thick paddies :mad:

He's be Spanish....he could claim and Irish passport if he wanted to, but as he was born in Spain he would be Spanish and as such i would make sure he was aware of that and could explore that culture to the full should he want to.

Should he want to explore Irish culture the the full then could for him and i would be delighted. His Nationality however.....would legally be Spainish....this is not difficult.

The child of any imigrant born in this country is Irish.....they might have Polish, South African, Chinese, Nigerian ....whatever the hell, heritage, but they were born in Ireland, and are Irish.

joe_chicken

If someone's parents are American and they're born and raised and live in Ireland.... does that make them American?

No.

I can see where Pvt. Joker is coming from though... I think we all can.

And in a way we feel proud when we see Irish Americans claim their heritage.

It's just a little annoying when you say you're Irish to someone (who is blatantly not Irish) and they turn around and say:
"O yeah!?... so am I!"

Sam Vimes

Dragan wrote:

He's be ****ing Spanish because he's born in goddamn Spain.....his parents would be Irish.

Pretty clear don't ya think!!!

precisely. its not about your dna. its about the country you were born and more importantly raised in.


my name was originally french but you'll never catch me eating snails

"of irish descent" =/ irish

Dyr

Dragan wrote:

he could claim and Irish passport if he wanted to,

Im just gonna selectivley quote the bit that backs up my statement.:)

Like i said young alfredo would be as irish as me or paidi ó sé. But not Dragan. Dragan is a traitor*.


* for purposes of slander only. No guarantee of actual treachery

Ponster

Dragan wrote:

The child of any imigrant born in this country is Irish.....they might have Polish, South African, Chinese, Nigerian ....whatever the hell, heritage, but they were born in Ireland, and are Irish.

Not since 1 January 2005.

If you were born in Ireland and your parent(s) were Irish, then you are entitled to be an Irish citizen.

However, some people, (even though they may have been born on the island of Ireland), can only claim Irish citizenship by making a declaration on a special form. These people include:

* A person born on the island of Ireland to a non-national who at the time of that person's birth was entitled to diplomatic immunity within the State

* A person born in Irish sea or air space to a non-national on a foreign ship or in a foreign aircraft


Non-national parents of children, born in Ireland on or after 1 January 2005, must prove that they have a genuine link to Ireland. This will be evidenced by being resident legally in Ireland for three out of the previous four years immediately before the birth of the child. On proof of a genuine link to Ireland their child will be entitled to Irish citizenship.

Reminds me of a good quote by the Duke of Wellington wow as born in Ireland but was 0% Irish.

Being born in a stable does not make one a horse

I'll probably have a kid here in France next year and it'll be Franco-Irish, not simply French or Irish. The place that someone is born rarely defines a person if that same person has been brought up elsewhere in the world.

Dragan

Bambi wrote:

Like i said young alfredo would be as irish as me or paidi ó sé. But not Dragan. Dragan is a traitor*.


* for purposes of slander only. No guarantee of actual treachery

He dude,

just a little unsure where your going with that one, so if you wouldn't mind expanding on your point that would be cool.

My point is that he would be Spanish, he could claim and Irish passport if he wanted. Unsure as to why you would term me a "traitor" because of that.

Dyr

I'm being facetious. Its monday morning and i've had to spell facetious. F***in hell :mad:

Dont call me dude either maaan

Anyway irish-americans rest assured that I love you at least. JFK was irish-american. Great stuff altogether

Goodshape

Bambi wrote:

I'm being facetious. Its monday morning and i've had to spell facetious. F***in hell :mad:

It's Tuesday morning.

Dragan

Bambi wrote:

Dont call me dude either maaan

Ah, i call everyone dude....on Sunday i actually called my mother "dude" which worried me just a tad, but hey, what can ya do!

DamienH

ha ha but it's monday back home

Dyr

Its not tuesday, its the first working day of the week which means it's monday and any calendar that tells you otherwise is a liar and a communist...and a traitor :mad:

Dragan

DamienH wrote:

ha ha but it's monday back home

LOL

coyote6

I agree with most posters that "being Irish" has much to do with having grown up with the culture in Ireland. The subtle things and the history. I'd take it as a deep compliment that so many seek to identify with their "Irish Roots" but see how it could also be annoying with all the romanticization of it.

Me.. I'm a mixed breed American who can claim just about any "heritage" I feel like. German, Sioux (No Kiddin'), Irish, French. The fact is: I'm an American and there's no reason to be ashamed of it. I don't make the damned laws or make policy for the government! I just happened to be born here. Sure we love Ireland too otherwise we wouldn't spend time chatting with Irish on the boards!

Dyr

I wanted to be a sioux indian when i was kid

irish-sioux would be cool, you'd be bit like a trahveller but only in a good way

homeOwner

I dont think you can say that your nationality is only where you were born because alot of countries (including ireland) allow you to claim nationality of your parents or grandparents regardless of where you were born.

If i was born in china, and said I was chinese that would be misleading because i wouldnt be chinese in race, culture or heritage. I am chinese by birth but am of Irish descent. (I wasnt born in china, just using it as an example).

Saying "I am ....." about where you are from, can say alot of things about you like culture, race, heritage. It does not only refer to where you were physically born. So if a person born in the US to Irish parents and grew up in ireland most of their life said they were irish, i think that would be a fair description of themselves. Technically they are american by birth, but Irish by culture, heritage and by choice, if they get an irish passport through their parents.

Thats just my 2c.

Evil_Bilbo

OP: The only people who truly are american are native americans

Thats crazy. Why would so many people love shouting "USA" then? Are these all native americans. Is it native americans that salute the flag and fight for "their country" overseas?

I have no problem with you calling yourself Irish (despite probably having an american accent), because BOTH your parents are Irish. What we dont like is people claiming to be irish because of a distant ancestor being from Ireland. I know of some people saying "I'm german irish", despite their ancestors living in the USA for 4 generations.

e.g. if you married a woman/man in a similar situation to you, and never left the states. You had kids and those kids claimed to be Irish - that would really bug us, because they are definitely not irish. The connection is there with you (although slightly), but for them, its too far back.

Saying that - I find the Irish to be pretty intollerant - everyone here says "you're not Irish - you were born in america - therefore, you're american" - I dont think they'd be saying the same thing about a black/chinese/romanian kid who was born here shortly after their parents arrived from africa/china/romania (i.e. they'd be saying "that kid is NOT irish - just look at him...etc").

for some reason it seems everyone would love to be irish (no one seems too proud of claiming french / german / belgian / wherever ancestry eh?), but the irish seem to really hate people (whether irish desendants abroad or foreigners in ireland) claiming to be irish.

zilog_jones

PORNAPSTER wrote:

No Irish passport = Not Irish.

It's just that simple.

My mother is from Limerick, my dad is from South Africa, I was born in England and lived there about 6 years alltogether, I also lived in Scotland and Saudi between then, I lived in Ireland for the duration of the Gulf War (was living in Saudi around 1990-1993), and I have been living in Limerick for the past 8 years - so I've been living here longer than anywhere esle.

I have been through Irish secondary education and have done my Leaving Cert, and I'm doing a degree in UL. I've been working as an Irish citizen on and off since I was 16, and have been paying PRSI accordingly (I don't usually get taxed as I don't earn enough in a year). I have an Irish PPS number, an Irish provisional driving license, and have been listed as a citizen in the Census in 2002 and 2006.

But passport, you say? I only have a British passport that expired 11 years ago. So I'm not Irish then?

WhiteWashMan

pvt. joker wrote:

if a person were to analyze my dna, they would find that my early ancestors crawled out of the primordial ooze somewhere around ireland. how's that?

highly unlikely.

if you go back far enough, youll find there wasnt such a place as ireland when something crawled out of the primordial ooze.

of course, if you only want to go back a few hundred years, then yes, maybe your ancestors did come from ireland, but why do you only go as far back as that?

perhaps your ancestors before that were pillaged and kidnapped from the west coast of wales?
maybe youre welsh?

or how about before that, you came from celtic blood, and you could have come from anywhere across norhtern europe?

but go back further, perhaps your ancestors could be found somewhere around north africa, where we all came from?

what makes you irish?

do you feel irish?
do you identify with irishness? and what is this irishness?
do you hold a passport, vote and choose how ireland is run?

it always amuses me as to why someone from another country could ever possibly claim to be another nationality when they have not been to that country. what makes me alough even more is someone who claims to be 'homesick' for the old sod when theyve never been there.

but hey, who am i to piss on someones ideas of who they are.

you can be a martian for all i give a crap. it wont stop me from thinking its idocy mind.

Nevyn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-EH7BAWdbY

That type is what drives people nuts tbh.

ferdi

my fore fathers lived in the deepest darkest jungles and plains of Africa 40+ thousand years ago. does that mean i can claim to be African?

connundrum

I was born in Dublin, but raised in South Africa.. and I'm entitled to carry either passport so I guess I'm Irish/South African.

My brother is the only member of the family who was actually born and raised out there.. so what is he? IMO he's allowed an Irish passport so he's Irish/South African too - but that flies in the face of other's opinions who say you must be born and raised here to be considered Irish?

Interesting none the less

Terry

we should use the grandfather rule that got us into the world cup a few years back. it seemed to be a fairly successful measuring stick.