[Article] FF/PD split widens over new bus fleet

John R

I am getting very tired reading the same BS from you Metrobest.

Many people who post here put a great deal of time and effort into providing accurate information for the discussions. That is why it pisses me off when you continually post the same crap even though I have spent the time to reply to you previously with FACTS that disprove your statements.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinions but do us all a favour and find some facts to back them up rather than making up stuff.

Metrobest wrote:

No, Mark, that absolves Dublin Bus of all responsibility for its failures. For all this talk about Dublin Bus "needing" more buses, let's not forget that Dublin Bus is carrying no more passengers now than it was ten years ago,

NOT TRUE.

Bus patronage has rises significantly every year from the early 90's with the exception of 2005, which is down to a switch of approx 6 million journeys to Luas. If the Luas effected routes are discounted there was a rise in 2005 as well.

If the trend continues in 2006 there will be usage figures higher than pre-luas and projections are that the rate of increase will accelerate over the next 5 years.

Metrobest wrote:

bus passenger counts over the canal cordon are down over 10%

Again UNTRUE.

Dublin Bus Network review 2006 wrote:

Since 1997 there has been a 15% drop in the volume of cars crossing the
canal cordon during the morning peak three hour period (07:00 – 10:00).
By Comparison there has been a 21.4% drop in the volume of cars crossing
the cordon along the QBC axis. During the 2004 canal cordon count 62,475
cars (including 2,509 taxis) crossed into the inner city centre in total of
which 28,784 cars crossed along QBC axis.


7.3.4 Over the last 7 years there has been a considerable increase in the number
of people entering the city by bus and a comparative fall in the number of
people accessing the city by car during the morning peak along the QBC
corridors (see Table 7.4). This clearly demonstrates the success and power
of the QBC - in addition more people are actually able to travel through the
cordon which is crucial for the health and vitality of the city.
Table 7.4 Comparison of the Number of People Accessing the
City Centre by Car and by Bus along the QBC Axes
Year --- Car ---- Bus --- Bus share
1997 -- [43,506] [30,542] [41%]
2004 -- [32,883] [45,558] [58%]
Change [-10623] [15016]

Note: Figures are Number of Occupants

Metrobest wrote:

and fare prices have risen so quickly you'd think it was Harare Bus, Zimbabwe!

Again more biased bullsh1t. The facts tell a different story.

The actual fare increases over the last two decades are much smaller than the commonly held beliefs that they have spiralled. AFAIK they have not significantly exceeded inflation and are at least as cheap in real terms as other similarly priced goods and services.

Considering the high % of spending on fuel the recent fare increases have been small.

Here are the fares, anyone want to compare them to inflation and prices of other products?


1990 0.57c 0.83c 0.95c 1.14c
1995 0.70c 1.01c 1.27c 1.40c
2000 0.76c 1.08c 1.33c 1.46c
2006 0.95c 1.35c 1.55c 1.80c

There is also the fact that there are a number of cheap pre-pay options now that weren't available, the most any single trip including multiple transfers need cost now is 1.60c.

Metrobest wrote:

I don't think Mary Harnery's talking about a London-style scenario. What she's saying is, let's franchise out 25% or new and existing routes to a private operator because

Can you provide ANY quote or document that suggests that this is the preferred option of the PDs?

Metrobest wrote:

1) It will be cheaper

No it will not. It has been stated many times by the people who run it that the TfL model is VERY EXPENSIVE. They have expressly warned other cities not to try and copy them without an extensive funding package.

Do you know of any plans for a €12 a day charge for every car that enters Dublin city to pay for bus franchising?

Metrobest wrote:

2) The public will get a better bus service

Not without huge continuous payments of public money to keep it up to a good standard.

Metrobest wrote:

3) The competition will make Dublin Bus leaner and more efficient.

There are always efficiencies that can be made but the inference that DB are poor in that regard is not true. They compare favourably with other operators across Europe in regard to most of the operations.

As the large private bus companies demand 15-20% return on all operations there is a big gap between the base cost of the service and the cost a private will provide it for. A well run public service can easily beat those figures.

Metrobest wrote:

(Note that the best of the CIE trio is Bus Eireann and that's because it has so much competition on its routes. Competition works, and the dogs on the street know it.)

The Bus Eireann city bus operations are quite poor in comparison to Dublin Bus, particularly in Cork.

The national express network is a different story, it has been transformed over the last 15 years and despite an increasing amount of cherry-picking competition they are still expanding while making an operational profit. If it wasn't for the cross-subsidising of the rural service they could significantly under cut all the competition on every route.

Metrobest wrote:

Dublin Bus and its unions are against Mary Harney because

1) They fear the public will realise just how bad they existing service is
2) They will be forced to up their game
3) They know she's right

More like;

1. They fear she will tear the company apart in order to satisfy a discredited ideological agenda at the same time as making lots of her cronies very rich in the process.

2. They will be forced out of their jobs when the incoming multi-nationals hire cheap immigrant labour at minimum wage rates and piss-poor conditions.

2. They know she will push her agenda regardless of what is good or bad for the industry at large and the travelling public.