Don't you just hate touting b*starts?!

WithCheesePlease

Was just curious and decied to have a look on buy&sell for tickets to either the Raconteurs or Pearl Jam gigs. And some of those absolute pricks are selling Pearl Jam tickets for around €150 each. Pisses me off. I wish there was something that could be done about this.

But their numbers are also listed... I've a good mind to start phoning and enquiring at 3 in the morning or so. And maybe again at 4, and 5, and half past......

Being sold here if anyone's interested...

GWM

That's actually not so bad. The first week after PJ sold out there were tix going for up to €400, no kidding. And I'd say people were forking out for them as well.

Creamy Goodness

tbh i do hate them but it's not their fault people are willing to throw cash at them to see their favourite artists.

i'll probably have to do it for sufjan stevens come end of october it's a bitch but if someone is desparate to get it's the price they pay for not queuing like everyone else to get them at face value.

honru

I've never been put in a situation where I had to pay a tout more than face value for a gig, so they're not really an issue for me. I just get likely sell-outs early and be done with it.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Dunno what your problem is, if you didn’t have people willing to sell you their tickets to a gig that was already sold out then you would have no choice and just plain could not go.
If you don’t want to pay an inflated price then either vote either your feet and don’t buy them, or get your tickets from ticketmaster early on the day of sale.

Complaining about it achieves nothing, this is a capitalist society we live in and people have the right to sell their property (yes they do own the tickets once they've paid for them) for any amount they like.

therecklessone

nm wrote:

Complaining about it achieves nothing, this is a capitalist society we live in and people have the right to sell their property (yes they do own the tickets once they've paid for them) for any amount they like.

Taken from Ticketmaster T&Cs:

If this ticket is re-sold or transferred for profit or commercial gain by anyone other than the Promoter, Venue Management, Ticketmaster or one of their authorised sub-agents, it will become voidable and the holder may be refused entry to or ejected from the venue. Ticketmaster reserves the right to cancel any tickets advertised or published in any manner with the intent to resell for profit or commercial gain.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Ticketmaster T&C's are not legally binding.
Like it or lump it, "touting" a ticket is just as legal as selling anything else you own.

Toast

nm wrote:

Dunno what your problem is, if you didn’t have people willing to sell you their tickets to a gig that was already sold out then you would have no choice and just plain could not go.

If there were no touts there would be
A.) more tickets available in the first place
B.) People with spare tickets, who usually sell tickets to the touts, selling to other music fans at face value. Surprisingly everyone gets a better deal as touts often buy up for less than face value from people with spares and sell on to the needy for more

Im sick of seeing this argument that touts somehow provide a service. They dont! They are an unneccesary middleman.

nm wrote:

Ticketmaster T&C's are not legally binding.
Like it or lump it, "touting" a ticket is just as legal as selling anything else you own.

Id like to see what loophole in the street trading laws they have managed to survive on so far. Also if they are doing it full time and without a license theres nothing stopping them signing on and not paying taxes. To the state they'll appear unemployed with zero income.

edit: Just should mention if you think about this some of these guys make 1000s of euro in a night. Sold out festivals like Electric Picnic can have upwards of 200eur profit on them. These guys buy up as many of these things as they can. I dont know their resources but Im sure with that much profit to be had they could easily acquire upwards 100 tickets to each easily. Thats not including the u2s, robbie williams, etc type gigs that they can easily get 100% 200% markups as well. I know they make losses on some gigs but it doesnt take a genuis to know which ones are guarantees and invest heavily in them. These people have an organised network in place to acquire as many tickets as possible to gigs. This is not about someone supplementing a ****ty welfare cheque with a couple of clever investments in tickets to feed a family. This is a hugely profitable, organised, cartel of vultures who convince people they are providing a service when in fact they are hurting the very same people. I believe theres a word for that... oh yeh.. The Mafia!

LundiMardi

gearoid_healy wrote:

Was just curious and decied to have a look on buy&sell for tickets to either the Raconteurs or Pearl Jam gigs. And some of those absolute pricks are selling Pearl Jam tickets for around €150 each. Pisses me off. I wish there was something that could be done about this.

But their numbers are also listed... I've a good mind to start phoning and enquiring at 3 in the morning or so. And maybe again at 4, and 5, and half past......

Being sold here if anyone's interested...

why didn't you just buy tickets when they went onsale, then you would have no reason to complain. It's because of people like you that touts exist.

Tha Gopher

Touts should be congratulated, theyre simply making money off other peoples stupidity or lack of responsibility (if you cant afford to spend 50 euro on the day tickets go on sale you should really reasses your life from a financial viewpoint)

BrianD

It would be helpful if TM (and others) allowed refunds. As you can't, the ony way is to flog your ticket. Perhaps when they move to home printed tickets refunds could be facilitated.

WithCheesePlease

LundiMardi wrote:

why didn't you just buy tickets when they went onsale, then you would have no reason to complain. It's because of people like you that touts exist.

and what if you queued for tickets and didn't get one, cos the people ahead of you snapped them up only to resell them?? Or if you couldn't get through on the ticketmaster website becase of demand and missed out that way??

you people are unreal!! I can't believe the response by some people to this. No, it's because of people like touts that touts exists. They are greedy, robbing scum bags that prey off other peoples' needs. They see an opportunity to make p*ss easy money and they take it, cos they're probably capable of nothing else.

Fair enough, they are making a bit of money for themselves. But I really don't think they should be commended for ripping people off. Are drug dealers just as innovative and worthy of praise too? Shur aren't they doing the very same thing?? Selling to people in need for an inflated price. Or otherwise know as exploiting a need in someone.

Fair enough they're making money for themselves, I just don't like or respect they way they're doing it. And I don't like having to pay over the odds to re-buy a ticket that someone else only bought with only profit in mind.

WithCheesePlease

Tha Gopher wrote:

Touts should be congratulated, theyre simply making money off other peoples stupidity or lack of responsibility....

They're ripping people off, plain and simple. And if you want to congratulate them it says a lot about you.

Tha Gopher wrote:

...(if you cant afford to spend 50 euro on the day tickets go on sale you should really reasses your life from a financial viewpoint)

Eh, how about if you couldn't get one because of demand, in part down to the number of people buying only to resell at an inflated price? Or if something came up and you couldn't physically get a ticket for whatever reason. It has nothing to do with having or not having the cash to begin with.

BrianD

BrianD wrote:

It would be helpful if TM (and others) allowed refunds. As you can't, the ony way is to flog your ticket. Perhaps when they move to home printed tickets refunds could be facilitated.

when you "flog your ticket", there's no need to charge over the top prices for it though. Ticketmaster's rules clearly state that they could void tickets that have been touted, so that means if you sell your ticket for face value, you'll be fine.

Last year, with 4 days to go to oxegen, i realised that i couldn't do the whole weekend, so had to swap my camping ticket for a saturday day pass and money.

on E-bay and buyandsell there were tickets going for €350+

I took a day pass and money to make up the face value of the ticket instead.

Sure i missed out on cash, but i kept my morals. And i believe in karma, my good deed will get back to me one day.

melekalikimaka

i think its a great way of making a bit of extra cash

indiewindy

One of the main reasons why there are so many touts in Ireland is because apart from the point (is the RDS still used for indoor gigs?) there is no indoor venue in Dublin that holds more than about 1300 people. Pretty much all the popular bands are selling out their gigs within a day or two. If someone opened a 2,3 or 4000 capacity venue in or near the city centre they would mkae a lot of money and lessen the influence of the touts. I have bought tickets off touts but have yet to pay more than face value

honru

I agree, Dublin really doesn't have a wide mix of venues in terms of capacity. Many bands are forced to play The Olympia as the next largest and dedicated music venue is The Point at 8,000.

"Vicar Street 2" will provide something inbetween hopefully.

LundiMardi

*ahem*the point*ahem*

Nermal

gearoid_healy wrote:

Eh, how about if you couldn't get one because of demand, in part down to the number of people buying only to resell at an inflated price?

tickets in events for high demand should be priced higher. why do tickets deserve to be treated differently to any other good?

ticketmaster price their tickets incorrectly, they should sell them at auctions to the highest bidder, and require passport numbers at purchase & print them on the tickets to prevent further re-trading. then they would get all the profit that currently accrues to touts.

Creamy Goodness

f®eak s&#169 wrote: »

I agree, Dublin really doesn't have a wide mix of venues in terms of capacity. Many bands are forced to play The Olympia as the next largest and dedicated music venue is The Point at 8,000.

"Vicar Street 2" will provide something inbetween hopefully.

there's goning to be a vicar street 2?

honru

Yep, it'll be built around the Docklands area. Capacity of 2,500 planned.

Mr Rivers

Touts - Guys who buy tickets for the purpose of selling and making profits = bad

People who cant go to a gig anymore and sell above face value via eBay or the like = fine!

Why should you sell at face value to the first person who sees your ad when there's real fans who'll pay that lil extra to secure the place at the gig they want!

seanironmaiden

Nermal wrote:

tickets in events for high demand should be priced higher. why do tickets deserve to be treated differently to any other good?

ticketmaster price their tickets incorrectly, they should sell them at auctions to the highest bidder, and require passport numbers at purchase & print them on the tickets to prevent further re-trading. then they would get all the profit that currently accrues to touts.

BOOoooo.... What a terrible Idea.

Mr Rivers

Mr Rivers wrote:

Why should you sell at face value to the first person who sees your ad when there's real fans who'll pay that lil extra to secure the place at the gig they want!

So that when the tables are turned you're not ripped off....

honru

Mr Rivers wrote:

Guys who buy tickets for the purpose of selling and making profits

People who cant go to a gig anymore and sell above face value via eBay or the like

Meh, they're both the same in my mind. A tout's a tout.

Mr Rivers

Deleted User wrote:

So that when the tables are turned you're not ripped off....

you missed out on tickets, you're own fault and the if ya wanna go you'll pay extra. I was on the other end once and happy to find someone on eBay to sell me a ticket, I paid €90 for a €25 ticket and even tho the gig wasnt great I didnt feel ripped off cos it was what I wanted

Toast

Nermal wrote:

tickets in events for high demand should be priced higher. why do tickets deserve to be treated differently to any other good?

Well for a start tickets are technically a receipt for a service not a good, specifically entry to an event organised by a promoter. The only common service I can think of right now that fluctuates price based on demand is plane tickets but having a system like that for an event would be terrible.

This is typical inverse pyramid economics. Youve a lot of people at the bottom who pay less who are supported by people at the top who pay much more. Unfortunately this all falls apart if the people at the top dont pay.

If you know that 2000 people are willing to pay 40 euro and cover your costs why endanger the system with having 1000 people pay 20 euro 500 people pay 30 euro and the last 500 pay 90 euro?

Airlines can do this because air travel is a neccesity and last minute bookings are typically essential travel which any price will be paid for. Gigs are entertainment and only considered essential to a very small percent of the populace and even then only certain gigs are essential to a fraction of that percent.

You might say have 1500 people pay 40 euro and the last 500 pay 80 euro but this is going to only cause an even bigger run on tickets when they go on sale because people will by the 40 euro tickets and undercut you reselling them at 70euro.. and you are left with 500 tickets no one will pay the price for. If you start constantly underselling your venues you are going to lose money as well.

Also your suggestions to lock tickets to particular people are nice but ultimately a huge amount of trouble to the average concert goer. I frequently buy additional tickets for friends. Often people pull out and are replaced by others or I resell at face value to someone on the night. If people cant get a friend to come to a gig they often wont go to the gig.. more lost money again.

Essentially what I am saying is that only a certain amount of people will jump through hoops for tickets and even then only for gigs that they care about. The system has to be easy, predictable and user friendly. Fluctuating prices and restrictions on tickets will just result in people not bothering. No Im sorry the only solution is to lock up all the touts.


Also Im surprised at Mr Rivers supporting casual touting.. man I thought you were cool. The issue with this is it actually supports professional touting in the end. If more people sold off their spares at face value thered be less people going to touts and less tickets being bought by touts as a result.

Mr Rivers

Toast wrote:

Also Im surprised at Mr Rivers supporting casual touting.. man I thought you were cool. The issue with this is it actually supports professional touting in the end. If more people sold off their spares at face value thered be less people going to touts and less tickets being bought by touts as a result.

Sorry man, I just cant see the problem in it. If I wanna go to a gig I get tickets early. If somehow I miss them I'd rather go to an auction instead of worrying and hittin refresh on ads here

People tryin to make a living out of it i dont agree with, that ruins it for others but I dont think the option of auctioning or selling above face value is a problem if there's someone that wants the tickets that bad and will enjoy the night!

Tha Gopher

gearoid_healy wrote:

They're ripping people off, plain and simple. And if you want to congratulate them it says a lot about you.



Eh, how about if you couldn't get one because of demand, in part down to the number of people buying only to resell at an inflated price? Or if something came up and you couldn't physically get a ticket for whatever reason. It has nothing to do with having or not having the cash to begin with.

Tough luck. 90% of people who couldnt get a ticket cant get it because

a- They cant be arsed getting up early to queue at ticketmaster

b- Couldnt afford it. Their own tough luck.

This is the real world. Winners in the real world make money. Losers provide them with that money. Id actually planned to spend about 1500 on 10 <snip> tickets and sell them for 500 each. Thank christ I didnt now.

Toast

Yes capitilism allows this behaviour but that doesnt neccesarily make it right. We live in a community. Other people are real people. From what you ve said you are in fact lowering the people you sell to in your view. Does that make it easier for you to charge them more? This is very similar to the behaviour of the prison guards in the Stanford Prison Experiment.

Anyway every argument on touting always breaks down to the same issue on here. Its a question of morals and people will never agree because some people care about their own pockets more than they care about other music fans and seem to fail to realise that its a circular issue which will only eventually hurt them in the end. I probably sound like a hippie but anyway....

honru

Tha Gopher wrote:

This is the real world. Winners in the real world make money. Losers provide them with that money. Id actually planned to spend about 1500 on 10 <snip> tickets and sell them for 500 each. Thank christ I didnt now.

We don't encourage this kind of activity here. Consider yourself warned.

This goes to melekalikimaka also.

Keedowah

While I think its wrong for people to buy up loads of tickets and sell them off for profit is wrong, if people are willing to pay for it, then thats their own business. I have passed up going to a bunch of concerts because I forgot to get tickets and wouldn't pay over the odds for them.

But people being villified for selling on extra tickets because someone dropped out of going to a gig, or if they cant go themselves is a bit rough. People here seem to think it fine if they sell it on for face value, but if they want to get a few bob from it they are spawns of satan.

You remember when crisps price used to be on the bag?

Well there was a small shop near me, and it was 10p for a packet of meanies, and this is printed onto the bag! The shop put 12p stickers over it...

they were touts...

scum

Toast

Keedowah wrote:

but if they want to get a few bob from it they are spawns of satan.

As I said if you do this you are only helping the touts who buy up loads of tickets. If there was a steady stream of face value tickets coming onto the market from cancellations then the touts would have things a lot harder.

Dermington

gearoid_healy wrote:

They are greedy, robbing scum bags that prey off other peoples' needs. They see an opportunity to make p*ss easy money and they take it, cos they're probably capable of nothing else

They are greedy? How? They made an investment in a ticket and are selling for a profit... so your greedy for buying a house and renting it out?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They are robbing scum bags? Who did the rob? Dont give me this crap about "robbing fans of a chance to go" and all that sh!te because you stated it in a literal sense. They have not robbed anything. Supply and demand on a first come, first served basis followed by price discrimination due to consumer indifference. Economics, its been around for a bit. This kind of thing happens every single day to everyone. Just because its blatantly obvious up there on ebay or buy and sell doesnt mean its an isolated thing. Its life.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They prey off other peoples needs? going to a concert or whatever is a want not a need. there is a considerable difference. You describe them like drug dealers. If you reply to this by saying they are anyhing like drug dealers, which you probably will, then your an idiot. "Prey off other peoples needs"...jesus stop being so naive. Every single business in existence does that. The reason you pay for something is because you want what they have. Welcome to society you troll.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I wanted to go to Pearl Jam. I bought 4 tickets. I am a life long fan as are my two friends. The fourth ticket I sold which paid for the other 3. Thats being smart by allowing myself more money to pay for the 80 euro beer at the concert, the bus/train there, accomodation etc. It's not my problem if you cant see that up there on your cross. Nobody is going to stop me goign to that gig, nor my two friends. If someone wants to pay more money for a ticket they couldnt get themselves for whatever reason then more power to them.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

f®eak s&#169 wrote: »

We don't encourage this kind of activity here. Consider yourself warned.

This goes to melekalikimaka also.

Since when do your morals affect what people can or cannot say?

You allow a thread call "hate touting b*starts" but because you do not like touting you warn someone for doing something which is perfectly legal...but is frowned opon by some people. Nothing either of those posters said, and indeed what I said in this post, constitutes anything illegal, it is on topic.

Well done :rolleyes:

Toast

Dermington wrote:

Nobody is going to stop me goign to that gig, nor my two friends. If someone wants to pay more money for a ticket they couldnt get themselves for whatever reason then more power to them.

The "Whatever reason" is that you bought it up to resell to cover your own expenses. This is circular! If everyone had your opinion you could have easily ended up paying the equivalent of 9 tickets to go. Who knows? In the future the only way to actually afford to get a ticket to a gig is going to be to tout other gigs. This is ridiculous but the logical conclusion of what you are saying.

Gordon

Dermington wrote:

Since when do your morals affect what people can or cannot say?

What was meant I think is that touts get sitebanned from boards. If we find a tout touting on boards then we'll siteban them. That means that boards on the whole doesn't like touts. And we definitely don't want to encourage them.

Dermington

The fact is I dont care.

I honestly do not mean that as a means of dismissing your arguement Toast.

Your point is very valid but I am content with my decision and I look forward to going to the gig as much as everyone else.

A lot of people, including the moderator it appears, frown opon what I have done. I have done nothing illegal and I stand by that.

For those of you that are going I hope you enjoy the gig.

honru

Dermington wrote:

If you reply to this by saying they are anyhing like drug dealers, which you probably will, then your an idiot.

Dermington wrote:

Welcome to society you troll.

Banned for flaming.

Dermington

Gordon wrote:

What was meant I think is that touts get sitebanned from boards. If we find a tout touting on boards then we'll siteban them. That means that boards on the whole doesn't like touts. And we definitely don't want to encourage them.

That is very different from what the other moderator said...

What your saying is that if I tout on boards I'm banned, and also that boards.ie as a whole does not condone touting.

However the other moderator warned two people for agreeing with touting. Slight disparity between what he/she said and what you think he said.

Prior Of Taize

f®eak s&#169 wrote: »

Banned for flaming.

You were waiting to do this quite obviously.


Well I would like to refer to the offensive thread title to start with, regardless of how b*starts is spelled.

I would also like to refer to you warning two people who have done nothing wrong just because of your own convictions, indicating that you cannot effectively do your job.

I also refer to you saying I was flaming even though in the first instance my prediction was exactly where that user was going with his ridiculously hyperbolic arguement and in the second instance the user was intentionally exaggerating (a lot) just to bolster a weak arguement. Nothing in his post had any evidence of being true (thieving, robbing scumbags, preying on peoples needs ).

I like this website. I think it is run very efficiently and I have never had a problem with a decision any moderator has made for or against me. I would like to say that you f®eak s©enery have acted wholly unfairly for the entire duration of this post. the fact that another moderator had to come to your rescue by effectively saying you said the exact opposite of what you said shows that your acting completely opon your own convictions and not in the general interest of the site.

Yours sincerly,

Dermington/Prior Of Taize.

i71jskz5xu42pb

Nermal wrote:

..... they should sell them at auctions to the highest bidder...... then they would get all the profit that currently accrues to touts.

seanironmaiden wrote:

BOOoooo.... What a terrible Idea.

Ticketmaster don't seem to think so as they are already doing this (in the US). But then they would think that I guess.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-05-21-ticketmaster-auction_x.htm

Coming soon here I'd say. Bye bye tout, hello ToutMaster

honru

Multiple accounts... oh dear...

Dermington wrote:

Well I would like to refer to the offensive thread title to start with, regardless of how b*starts is spelled.

How is this offensive to you?

Dermington wrote:

I would also like to refer to you warning two people who have done nothing wrong just because of your own convictions, indicating that you cannot effectively do your job.

I am awaiting further clarification from admins/moderators on the discussion of touting for posters' personal gain. Stay tuned.

Dermington wrote:

I also refer to you saying I was flaming even though in the first instance my prediction was exactly where that user was going with his ridiculously hyperbolic arguement and in the second instance the user was intentionally exaggerating (a lot) just to bolster a weak arguement. Nothing in his post had any evidence of being true (thieving, robbing scumbags, preying on peoples needs ).

You can present an arguement without personal abuse. He may be bolstering a weak arguement in your eyes but that's no reason to flame the guy.

thebassman

Just after reading through the thread - I'm not getting involved in te flame debate, but the issue at hand - touting. I'm in my 30s now and remember going to gigs as far back in distant time as the mid and late 80s, and there were touts then as well. It's a supply-and-demand issue, although I think the whole touting issue is far more prevalent since the appearance of Ticketmaster. Now, I'm not putting any blame on them, but touting didn't seem as bad back in the good old days when bands were responsible for selling their (may I say well designed and non-standard TM-esque type) own tickets.

Myself, I remember queueing up for U2 tickets outside the Point in October, 1989, and there were people with their year old kids (oh my God, there's aa few of you probably reading this now!! I feel old!!) with their "guaranteed ticket" wristbands, who were obviously not going to be seeing U2 that December. On saying that, I don't recollect them being touted for over priced rates.

Maybe it's the power taken out of the hands of the bands and into the hands of ticketmaster. I don't know. I mean, the tickets have gone incredibly expensive as it is buying them legit (£16 was the cost of a U2 ticket in 1989, and even giving iflation etc, €70 a ticket for the last time they played seems a bit high - and that's relatively inexpensive for a few of the gigs I've seen advertised!!).

Actually, take U2 as an example - if they played more gigs, like they did when they played four (originally five before Bono got sick and cancelled one) in a row that year, almost guatanyeeing that genuine fans got to see the band without playing stupid (legit or touted) prices for them.

Vexorg

Lest here be any misunderstanding

Dermington/Prior Of Taize has been site banned for having multiple accounts, nearly as bad as touting:)

If anyone is interested Boards.ie owners view on Profiteering is pretty well covered here http://wiki.boards.ie/wiki/Adverts_Rules#Profiteering. If this is something you fancy doing, you will not be welcome on boards.

In addition to this encouraging touts is also a bannable offence. Ie offering to pay more than face value (plus costs) for a ticket.

There is no issue with discussing touting, however like many discussions, it can degenerate into trolling and flaming very easily, making the ability to discuss the topic very difficult and result in warnings, bans and closure of the thread.

Try and not make these things personal.

Thx


Vex.

SBob

I missed the sufjan stevens sale (was busy at work for weeks and not in the loop, my ticketmaster alert that mentioned Sufjan for the first time came at 5 on the sale day, about 4 hours too late)
This is a concert i did not want to miss, so i bought two on ebay for double the price. To be honest, i'm not sure where i stand on it but thank f#ck for that tout is all i can say.
For antony and the johnsons last year i tried for ages to get one at face value in places like boards.ie and then went down to vicar st that evening to see could i get one at all, but there was nothing going. I was going to avoid that at all costs for Sufjan, and 55 euro is well well worth it.

Thebassman: I think U2 did everything they could so that all fans could see them: they played three gigs at 80,000 people a gig!! touts were giving tickets away!!

BOHS

Im just wondering what peoples views are on buying a couple of tickets to then auction off on ebay for charity. I was thinking of doing this as it seems like it could raise money.

Toast

A raffle would make far more sense.

eth0_

LundiMardi wrote:

why didn't you just buy tickets when they went onsale, then you would have no reason to complain. It's because of people like you that touts exist.

Yes, at the end of the day, it's mostly the real fans who get their tickets before they sell out. I'm not justifying touting, but if you were a real fan you'd make if your business to get a ticket from the normal channels when they go on sale.

Toast

Yes but when there are more and more touts in the equation theres no guarantee that you'll get tickets anymore. I was up for 9 and missed tickets to Flaming Lips this morning. They appear to have gone in about 2 minutes. Fortunately a second date was put on.

In the states big name gigs regularly sell out in a couple of minutes because of the huge touting issue there. Its starting to happen here and thats what worries me. What I said earlier about inevitably everyone will become a tout to just be able to buy tickets off touts is not too far in the future.

SBob

its way too easy to be a tout now with ebay and everything, for gigs like this you're talking 150-200% profit for doing nothing.
Its hard to resist