Housing bubble starting to pop?

SimpleSam06

Here in Galway, one of the most expensive places to buy property in Ireland, there are still a lot of real estate agents trying to move 3 bedroom houses at €450,000 or so, but Remax property about a week ago was advertising three bedroom houses in good areas for €320,000, or in a couple of cases, €250,000.

I've been looking at property around town for the last six months, and I have to say this is the first time I have seen property anywhere under the 300k mark. Now with that said, there are still places going for looney tunes money, a two bedroom penthouse apartment for 1.4 million last week, but thats getting pretty rare (probably why it made the news).

Can this be the beginning of the end of the property bubble? And does this mean FTB actually have a chance over the coming year? Should first timers wait until the prices bottom out?

Noelie

I'd say no. With the figures your have quoted your talking about a 35-40%(approx) drop which is quite unlikely at the moment.

SimpleSam06

Noelie wrote:

I'd say no. With the figures your have quoted your talking about a 35-40%(approx) drop which is quite unlikely at the moment.

Eppure si muove! Some of those listings are a bit out of town, true, but some of the ones in Knocknacarra and Cnoc an óir were going for 420k not so long ago. Four and five bedroom houses, no less. I can't back that last bit up with a link, but you can take my word for it...

coolhandluke

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Here in Galway, one of the most expensive places to buy property in Ireland, there are still a lot of real estate agents trying to move 3 bedroom houses at €450,000 or so, but Remax property about a week ago was advertising three bedroom houses in good areas for €320,000, or in a couple of cases, €250,000.

I've been looking at property around town for the last six months, and I have to say this is the first time I have seen property anywhere under the 300k mark. Now with that said, there are still places going for looney tunes money, a two bedroom penthouse apartment for 1.4 million last week, but thats getting pretty rare (probably why it made the news).

Can this be the beginning of the end of the property bubble? And does this mean FTB actually have a chance over the coming year? Should first timers wait until the prices bottom out?

Your jumping the gun there a bit although we are very close to the bubble popping,it may even have burst already.But it's going to be a long drawn out affair,rather than a sudden drop in prices.
The irish mentality has been conditioned over the last few years,that property prices never drop so there will be a period of standoff between sellers and buyers,before prices start to fall imho.
The people who have to sell (can't cover the mortgage on that investment property) will fall first along with a few smart investors who realise the games up and want to get out a few bob up,all the "experts" will tell people to hold their ground (while they get out) at this point the herd will turn and all the cards will fall.

CiaranC

My experience is the opposite. Prices on ~320k properties have risen approx 50/60k since February in South/South West Dublin.

coolhandluke

CiaranC wrote:

My experience is the opposite. Prices on ~320k properties have risen approx 50/60k since February in South/South West Dublin.

Prices for the first quarter of 06 rose for their highest levels since 01 i think (can be checked), and you are in the aera of probably most demand in the country.
The point is it's going to fall from the outside in,not the other way round.
But everywhere will be affected,just to different degree's

mikemac

coolhandluke wrote:

The point is it's going to fall from the outside in,not the other way round.

Can you explain this point? Sorry, don't quite understand it

coolhandluke

micmclo wrote:

Can you explain this point? Sorry, don't quite understand it

When the "for Sale" signs start going up in the commuter towns of Dublin,Cork and Galway you know the bubble has burst.
40% of the new houses purchased in the first quarter of 06 were bought by investors/speculators/flippers call them what you will.

SimpleSam06

coolhandluke wrote:

When the "for Sale" signs start going up in the commuter towns of Dublin,Cork and Galway you know the bubble has burst.
40% of the new houses purchased in the first quarter of 06 were bought by investors/speculators/flippers call them what you will.

Given that those two areas I mentioned pretty much are what passes for a commuter town or area in Galway, I'd say the outward-in topple is in progress... The investors that bought earlier this year won't be divesting just yet, as its a bit too soon, but I'd bet earlier investors are getting the smell of smoke.

Pa ElGrande

outside in - here's how it happens.

Timelines are America's (Housing is already on the way down in the USA in certain areas)

http://www.itulip.com/housingpriceregionscascade.htm

Cantab.

I think boards.ie business is a bit behind the game (as much as I love boards.ie!).

Over on askaboutmoney.com in 'Great Financial Debates', you'll find a thread that has over 32,000 hits in 3 weeks and goes in to great depth on the ins and outs of the imminent pop.

The consensus seems to me to be that things will go pear shaped come the Autumn when builders, estate agents, speculators, developers, etc. come back from their Spanish villas and decide enough is enough. If it doesn't happen this Autumn (high risk period), it will happen prior to the general election next summer (next highest risk period).

Link to AAM

Pa ElGrande

Cantab. wrote:

I think boards.ie business is a bit behind the game (as much as I love boards.ie!).

Ex-Taoiseach Albert Reynolds is rumoured to be lining up for the Autumn sale, so expect lots of ramping of the property market come September, and it will look like this summer's 'negativity' is more of the same from the doom mongers who think house prices will crash.
There are just as many threads if not more on boards, even I made my own call on the housing top (time will tell).

One thing is certain the decline will not pan out in the manner you or I expect and already people in power are covering themselves to deflect any blame being attached to them. I believe the root of the excess inflation in house prices started with the corruption of the planning process by certain developers, politicians and planners in the '80's and the actions of non-elected groups like An Taisce.
Anyone remember the Bacon reports?.
The bubble itself took off in 2001, with a combination of factors, like historically low interest rates, growing population, loosening of lending criteria, tax incentives, cheap energy, collapse of the dot.com bubble, and its been fanned by our own greed and fear.

The question nobody is asking or answering is what factors are needed to keep the price of property rising in 2007 and beyond?

SimpleSam06

Pa ElGrande wrote:

The question nobody is asking or answering is what factors are needed to keep the price of property rising in 2007 and beyond?

Um, complete reform of the planning permission process, coupled with increased levies on investment / speculation moguls, who leave tens of thousands of usable homes empty to push up prices in order to line their own pockets while first time buyers are priced out of the market, to the detriment of all of society?



Just a thought...

More realistically however, the housing market is much the same as any other market. Its the sale of product, and the price depends on what people are willing to pay for it. If you can sell pencils at a million euros each, then thats the market price for pencils, what the market will bear, what people feel they are worth. God knows the prices aren't due to a lack of usable land, or construction workers or materials.

Thus the price the market can handle depends largely on consumer sentiment, which is why sites like boards and AAM do have an effect on property prices; not much by themselves, but in conjunction with other media outlets, they can affect market sentiment.

If people believe there will be a property crash, they will hold on to their money, and not buy that first home. Likewise investors will not only not buy (and remember they were 40% of the purchasers last year), but they will, in fact, try to offload all of their properties at the earliest opportunity.

The upshot of this is essentially that a crash consists of a glut of properties on the market, combined with a scarcity of buyers, equating to far cheaper houses. Factor in rising interest rates (and they will probably go far higher, at one stage they were over 15% in the not so distant past), and you have the recipe for a serious collapse of the housing market, with its enormous knock-on effects for the Irish economy.

What gets me most about this whole situation is the protestations of those who who see no end in sight for this boom, backed up with average wages of 30k in the country. 30k is the MEDIAN wage, not the average, which means half of the working population is below that. And even at 30,000 per annum, most houses are prices at ten to fifteen times that. Whats wrong with this picture? Wages aren't going up that fast, 3% or so, barely keeping up with inflation, so further major house price rises are truly unsupportable.

The party is almost over, I reckon.

kam3qnwvebf4jh

2 months ago, out of interest, I decided track a particular house type(3-bed semi, no extension) in a particular estate(just off the M50 near Dundrum shopping centre) in South Dublin. On the 16/5 a sample house matching the description above was guiding at 535K. On the 17/7 another house on the same estate with the exact same characteristics was guiding 595K!! Thats an increase of 12% for 2 months !

Whats the last thing that an engine does before it blows up ? It overheats..

CiaranC

Ive done the same and seen a 15% increase in 6 months.

So, what does that mean in real terms?

Is it insulation against a downturn or does it mean these properties will just lose more value than everything else? Or does the obviously stronger demand for these offset some of any future drop in price?

davidoco

The majority of those predicting a crash aren't even on the ladder yet. It reminds me of a queue at a bar, the person just in without any drink shouts the loudest.

It’s false hope really that property prices will come back down to a level where the FTB can buy within Dublin in particular.

SimpleSam06

davidoco wrote:

The majority of those predicting a crash aren't even on the ladder yet. It reminds me of a queue at a bar, the person just in without any drink shouts the loudest.

It’s false hope really that property prices will come back down to a level where the FTB can buy within Dublin in particular.

Feeling a little exposed, are we? 30,000 salary, minus what 8k in taxes, 22k thats all yours. Assuming you spend 10k per annum on the mortgage, that leaves you with 12k, or about 200 quid a week to spend on food, fuel, insurance, and so on. Oh and lets not forget interest on the mortgage, on top of that, with rising interest rates.

Which means, essentially, that a person earning 30k per annum has zero chance of paying that off over 30 years. And honestly, I don't know a great many people earning 30k or more in any case. And 300k is no kind of house.

Boom.

CiaranC

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Feeling a little exposed, are we? 30,000 salary

How do you know what he earns? It is strange that a lot of the bears on here seem to be single people on low incomes who want to buy a house.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

SimpleSam06

CiaranC wrote:

How do you know what he earns? It is strange that a lot of the bears on here seem to be single people on low incomes who want to buy a house.

30k is a low income? Wow, I must be in the wrong business... Maybe I should get into construction or something... I neither know nor care what he earns, that 30k example was to back up my previous point. It may come as a surprise to you, but most people, single, married, or otherwise, don't particularily want to trudge through their lives in debt to the hilt in order to fill the bank's coffers.

Combine that with the other factors I have already mentioned, the market simply cannot bear the current pricing of property, and you have a lot of speculators who will be saddled with odious debt and probable bankruptcy.

davidoco

Why I reply I wonder but I am a house owner since 2000 so am unlikely to have any real exposure to a market crash.

I really do feel for those people thinking about buying now and having to deal with people saying houses are going to be cheaper crash crash next year etc etc

The media have been quieter in the past few weeks compared to a bit of frenzy during June on house prices but all the indications I got were for a soft landing with modest price increases over the coming years. Therefore if I were a FTB or wanted a second home I would have no hesitation with buying now and especially now before the autumn rush.


“property to rise forever at current rates? How is that a good thing”

the ERSI are talking about 8% to 10% this year. That's say 30k more on the average 3 bed house. Perhaps there is a bit to go still before we reach the top and flatten out. I remember back in early 2001 prices went on a similar jump. As long as people have jobs and have aspirations to live in a bigger better house, house prices are going to rise.

CiaranC

CiaranC wrote:

How do you know what he earns? It is strange that a lot of the bears on here seem to be single people on low incomes who want to buy a house.

Pretty much every economist is saying the same also.

The only bulls are those with vested intrests, banks, building societies, the government, home owners and estate agents.

CiaranC

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Huh? Why would I want an assest that appreciates phenomenonally year on year forever? Thats a hard one...

Unfortunately, as you well know, simple economics tells us that it is impossible. Id rather growth return to normal levels, but the more I read, the less likely that seems to be.

SimpleSam06 wrote:

30k is a low income? Wow, I must be in the wrong business... Maybe I should get into construction or something...:D

Its low if you are looking to buy a 3 bedroom house in Galway. Maybe you should get work as a nighttime plumber or something

wardwil

A friend of mine works for one of Irelands richest business men (been involved in the financial and construction industries) and at their Xmas party last year he gave a talk on the property market.
He could not stress enough how fragile the market is and that under no circumstances should they attempt to purchase a property within the next two years.
This of course is hearsay, however, considering rising interest rates, low salaries, inflation, 25% dearer cars than anywhere in Europe, a deceitful Government, astronomical house prices, constant banking investigations, I have decided to give it two years to see what happens.
Another aspect is that the construction industry is being fuelled by foreign low paid workers. This leaves the miserable sub contractors to make a fortune... we need to bypass them and employ this foreign workforce directly.
Even if you sat at the back of the classroom as a kid, you can guess that there is only one way for this economy to go....
Happy House Hunting!

CiaranC

My brother was at the same party.

SimpleSam06

davidoco wrote:

Why I reply I wonder but I am a house owner since 2000 so am unlikely to have any real exposure to a market crash.

Good for you.

davidoco wrote:

I really do feel for those people thinking about buying now and having to deal with people saying houses are going to be cheaper crash crash next year etc etc

Yes, thats why you compared them to a queue at a bar.

davidoco wrote:

As long as people have jobs and have aspirations to live in a bigger better house, house prices are going to rise.

Sure this is Ireland, its different. Don't you know Saint Patrick drove out all the property crashes?

davidoco

davidoco wrote:

“property to rise forever at current rates? How is that a good thing”

the ERSI are talking about 8% to 10% this year. That's say 30k more on the average 3 bed house. Perhaps there is a bit to go still before we reach the top and flatten out. I remember back in early 2001 prices went on a similar jump. As long as people have jobs and have aspirations to live in a bigger better house, house prices are going to rise.

Just to start off I'm 25 and I'm not a home owner. Nor do I plan on it any time soon.

House prices are not rising because people are trading up.

House prices are rising because Banks are feeding people's fear of not getting on the property ladder with cheaper and cheaper money. The more money they give out( over long terms and 100%+ mortgauges) the more expensive houses get.

To add to the mix, we are now producing more houses than we have ever done before. There is no housing shortage to explain such huge disparity between earnings and house prices.

And to dig out an old chestnut, house prices in Japan have fallen for 14 years in a row. So it can happen.

SimpleSam06

CiaranC wrote:

Huh? Why would I want an assest that appreciates phenomenonally year on year forever? Thats a hard one...

Unfortunately, as you well know, simple economics tells us that it is impossible. Id rather growth return to normal levels, but the more I read, the less likely that seems to be.

Actually simple economics is sitting scratching its head, wondering what the hell is going on. Market sentiment has taken the lead here, not hard financial facts. Still, live by the market sentiment, die by the market sentiment.

CiaranC wrote:

Its low if you are looking to buy a 3 bedroom house in Galway. Maybe you should get work as a nighttime plumber or something

So you're saying that a place to live, a basic human right, should only be a possibility if you are wealthy? Wow, thats going to go well. Or not.

CiaranC

So you're saying that a place to live, a basic human right, should only be a possibility if you are wealthy? Wow, thats going to go well. Or not.

You can rent, or get affordable housing. Whats wrong with thinking only wealthier people should have expensive stuff?

Afuera

davidoco wrote:

the ERSI are talking about 8% to 10% this year. That's say 30k more on the average 3 bed house. Perhaps there is a bit to go still before we reach the top and flatten out.

But the prices have already risen by around 10% in the first few months of this year which would suggest that the ERSI is not expecting any more rises for 2006. Their projection for 2007 is only a 3% increase which is roughly in line with inflation. This sounds like it's already flattening out to me.

SimpleSam06

CiaranC wrote:

You can rent, or get affordable housing. Whats wrong with thinking only wealthier people should have expensive stuff?

Hahahaha, oh lord, man you win the thread, you really do. Listen, read back over my comments, and note especially the comment about the pricing of pencils. I don't have the time to go repeating myself. Its only expensive stuff as long as people see it as expensive stuff. Thats what the entire property market is based on. Perception in people's minds. Seem a little shaky to you?

See, now you made me repeat myself.

HelterSkelter

A couple of months ago houses in my area (a council area in Dublin) were all around the €400,000 mark. Checked myhome.ie yesterday and most were €390,000, with the cheapest one €381,000.

EDIT: I pass this house everyday on the way home. It has been on sale for about 3 weeks now. A Sale Agreed sign appeared for a few days but it's back to For Sale now. Seems like they are having difficulty selling it. There are other houses on the road that seem to be For Sale for quite a while also.

http://www.propertyselector.com/clients/movehome/propdetails.cfm?propexpid=49

SimpleSam06

Afuera wrote:

But the prices have already risen by around 10% in the first few months of this year which would suggest that the ERSI is not expecting any more rises for 2006. Their projection for 2007 is only a 3% increase which is roughly in line with inflation. This sounds like it's already flattening out to me.

And if it increases by 10% to 15% in the remaining five months of 2006, its not overheating at all is it?

General_Zod

Hi there,

I have been reading the threads here with great interest for the last while and have decided to post my first message.

I cannot understand how people believe that house prices on this little isle of ours will remain high forever. Assets of all types go through boom/bust cycles inherently - it is an economic certainty that prices will adjust (crash) to real levels once the cheap credit runs out and people wake up to the mania being drip fed from the highest levels.

Statements like - "FTBs will not be able to buy into the market for a long time" actually defies the principles of a Market - what if Supermarkets such as Dunnes Stores were unregulated and prices were allowed to rise so much (based on false demand, greed and cheap credit) that normal people on modest incomes could not longer afford necessities - Dunnes' stores would not last very long, as they would only have a minority customer base.

It is correct that the market prices are set by the amount that consumers are willing to pay, but fear and greed can distort this - worth and value seperate.

A lot of the problems we have seen in Ireland are caused by many factors.

1. We are no longer in control of interest rates.

2. We allow uneducated/unqualified/unregulated property Agents to set prices - which of course are always going to increase as higher and higher commision is the fundamental goal.

3. Cheap credit delved out by (seemingly)unregulated and irresponsible lenders.

4. A genetically embedded need to own property - bred in to the Irish populace since the time we got our land back from the English gentry. (rent is dead money etc. etc.)

5. A retarded government so inept as to allow things to have gotten this far out of control just to keep their own coffers full.

As well as all that, the typical Bullish/VI theory of a "soft landing" nirvana is nothing short of a bad understanding of economics and it's history - there has never been a property boom at the order of magnitude that we are experiencing in Ireland that has ended in a so called "soft landing" - when the probability of capital appreciation is reduced towards zero watch the dominoes fall.

I would just like to add that I really pity the current/next generation of Irish kids leaving school/college - I think it is a national disgrace that the government has done no thinking for their future - they have thrown away a serious opportunity for building a serious country. And please excuse my french but I will eat my mickey if they get re-elected.

davidoco

wardwil wrote:

A friend of mine works for one of Irelands richest business men (been involved in the financial and construction industries)

While the rich and the famous are to be admired, I would take advice from a rich developer in Ireland today with two catering packs of saxa salt.

A rich developer as can be seen at the recent and current tribunals doesn’t have to be particular intelligent

CiaranC

SimpleSam06 wrote:

note especially the comment about the pricing of pencils. I don't have the time to go repeating myself. Its only expensive stuff as long as people see it as expensive stuff. Thats what the entire property market is based on. Perception in people's minds. Seem a little shaky to you?

Of course its based on perception in peoples minds, what market isnt?

The only difference is that you percieve housing to be overpriced, and thusfar the rest of the market hasnt.

Is there supposed to be something groundbreaking in your analysis?

davidoco

davidoco wrote:

While the rich and the famous are to be admired, I would take advice from a rich developer in Ireland today with two catering packs of saxa salt.

A rich developer as can be seen at the recent and current tribunals doesn’t have to be particular intelligent

Somebody who should be very optimistic about the housing market (since he makes all his money from it.) giving a negative opinion should probably be listened to more so than economists and banks.

SimpleSam06

CiaranC wrote:

Of course its based on perception in peoples minds, what market isnt?

The only difference is that you percieve housing to be overpriced, and thusfar the rest of the market hasnt.

Is there supposed to be something groundbreaking in your analysis?

Yes, ignoring the rest of the comments (including my own) giving good reasons for a swift change in market sentiment really isn't helping your position. You are basically saying the sun shines the hottest at noon, so its always going to be that hot.

The only thing that market perception changes is profit margins (cf iPods). And really, most housing just isn't that expensive to build. Certainly nowhere near the prices being asked for it. So its basically 80% profit margins, and rising, for a basic human requirement. Oh yes, I can see that lasting.

HelterSkelter

coolhandluke wrote:

... along with a few smart investors who realise the games up and want to get out a few bob up,....

You mean like AIB who recently sold their HQ in Donnybrook and leased it back, or Bank Of Ireland who recently sold 12 of their branches and leased them back?

General_Zod

HelterSkelter, did you not hear, that is actually a positive thing for the Irish property market, the VIs would have you believe that the reason both AIB and BOI have taken that stance is to free up more capital to be able to give out even more loans!

SimpleSam06

Awfully public spirited of them, Zod...

CiaranC

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Yes, ignoring the rest of the comments (including my own) giving good reasons for a swift change in market sentiment really isn't helping your position. You are basically saying the sun shines the hottest at noon, so its always going to be that hot.

/shrug

I think in your haste to be all clever, you have assumed too much. Ive already said that these rises in prices are unsustainable and that even a soft landing is looking less likely. ???

davidoco

HelterSkelter wrote:

You mean like AIB who recently sold their HQ in Donnybrook and leased it back, or Bank Of Ireland who recently sold 12 of their branches and leased them back?

It makes perfect financial sense for AIB to sell the site and it has nothing to do with the housing market.



The bank's 99-year lease of the building dates back to 1972 and has another 66 years to run. Surprisingly, the lease provides for a staggered rent over the full 99-year period and, even after 34 years in occupation, the bank is still paying only about 60 per cent of the open market rental value.

The rent roll of over €6 million equates to a rent in the early €30s per sq ft. High quality office accommodation such as this would easily rent for up to €538 per sq m (€50 per sq ft) in this central location.

The substantial shortfall in the rent roll going to Salix means the pension fund is not getting anything like the return it could expect from such a prestigious building. An eventual sale would give Salix the opportunity to invest in a higher yielding property.

Sources in the property market have indicated that, in the event of a sale and leaseback arrangement going ahead, the bank will pay a rent of €484 per sq m (€45 per sq ft) for the block along with an annual fee of around €4,000 for each of the 220 car-parking spaces. The short term lease is expected to run for about five years while a new headquarters is developed.

It will have a floor area of at least 41,805sq m (450,000sq ft), more than double the present headquarters which extends to 18,580sq m (200,000sq ft).

There will be no scarcity of developers and investors prepared to pitch for the Baggot Street building because of the strong rental income available while planning permission is sought to enlarge the building.

SimpleSam06

CiaranC wrote:

I think in your haste to be all clever, you have assumed too much. Ive already said that these rises in prices are unsustainable and that even a soft landing is looking less likely. ???

Theres not much clever about pointing out the facts as I see them. Feel free to correct me on any particular point. Meanwhile, this is for all the property speculators out there:

CiaranC

Speaking of not thinking things all the way through, I cant help be amused at the people (usually single people on the avg national wage) coming on here and rubbing their hands together at the prospect of a property crash.

They seem to think that a property crash will mean that house prices will fall to exactly where they can become a property owner themselves (presumably they will buy exactly where prices go back up because they are so clever) without the impact on the wider ecomony affecting them in any way whatsoever.

These people are as delusional as the supposed sheep who 'think prices can rise at their current rates forever'. (Where are these people anyway, they dont seem to post on the internet)

jesus_thats_gre

HelterSkelter wrote:

You mean like AIB who recently sold their HQ in Donnybrook and leased it back, or Bank Of Ireland who recently sold 12 of their branches and leased them back?

One of the big auctioneers done this recently too I think.

General_Zod

Think it was HOK, Gunne also sold off their residential property business.

CiaranC, what is your own forecast?

I am sure that most people would welcome a reduction in property prices from their current dizzying heights, not just those on an average salary wanting to get on the ladder - it seems to me to be terrribly dangerous to the economy at large if this goes on much longer.(if the damage has not already been done)

Idleater

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Theres not much clever about pointing out the facts as I see them. Feel free to correct me on any particular point. Meanwhile, this is for all the property speculators out there:

Just wondering,

if house prices crash what happens to rent prices?

L.

SimpleSam06

CiaranC wrote:

Speaking of not thinking things all the way through, I cant help be amused at the people (usually single people on the avg national wage) coming on here and rubbing their hands together at the prospect of a property crash.

Hold on a minute there, don't be making assumptions about anyone's relative wages or marital status. Lets stick to the facts and projections based on those facts, because for the kind of money we are talking about, anything else is extremely unwise.

CiaranC wrote:

They seem to think that a property crash will mean that house prices will fall to exactly where they can become a property owner themselves (presumably they will buy exactly where prices go back up because they are so clever) without the impact on the wider ecomony affecting them in any way whatsoever.

Again, you are making wild assumptions about people. If the property market crashes, the economy goes straight to hell awfully quickly, make no mistake about it. This means widespread redundancies, emigration, and an unsupportable government beurocracy.

CiaranC wrote:

These people are as delusional as the supposed sheep who 'think prices can rise at their current rates forever'. (Where are these people anyway, they dont seem to post on the internet)

Delusional, indeed. Why? I've done nothing but give reasons, and I have yet to hear a single one coming from you.

SimpleSam06

nereid wrote:

Just wondering,

if house prices crash what happens to rent prices?

L.

I have no idea. I'd imagine there would be a lot more rental properties on an already very competitive market, which usually means a price reduction. I haven't really thought about it though.

CiaranC

Zod wrote:

CiaranC, what is your own forecast?

Maybe Ive been reading too many AAM threads, but Im beginning to feel we are screwed either way. Growth will kill us. A collapse will kill us. Soft landing seemingly isnt going to happen.

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Delusional, indeed. Why? I've done nothing but give reasons, and I have yet to hear a single one coming from you.

I wasnt talking specifically about you. What do you want me to give reasons for exactly, anyway?