Bogus Lithuanian Clothing Charity Collectors

Sponge Bob

There has been an upsurge in Bogus Lithuanian charity collectors in Ireland, they are now active in Galway.

While warnings about this scam have been issued in the UK in the recent past the same has not happened here yet.

http://www.cornwall24.co.uk/Article389.htm

The m/o is the same as in the UK. It will even mention a website for this 'charity' . They cannot LEGALLY call themselves a charity in Ireland because they are not REGISTERED AS A CHARITY in Ireland. You will be asked in a flyer to have a bag of clothes ready for the poor Rwandans or whatever.

The feckers check the bags for good stuff and will dump the rest over your neighbours hedge so the community warden can find the rubbish with your nametag on it . Give your old clothes to a reputable charity like Enable Ireland instead .

The poor Rwandans get nothing of course and have their names sullied by these scumbags to boot .

Gillo

In fairness Irish people have been doing this for years.

Sponge Bob

gillo wrote:

In fairness Irish people have been doing this for years.

Most Irish charity collectors are genuine and anyway they give you an alternative drop off point like a shop in the nearest sizeable town not a lithuanian website .

I have had Irish 'collectors' come to the door and ask for clothing but not pretend it was going to / for Rwanda but that it was for themselves or the 'chilter'. Thats different surely.

Here is a further warning from the scots police

http://news.scotsman.com/glasgow.cfm?id=1354372004

and northern england

http://www2.walsall.gov.uk/newsdocs/NewsArticle.asp?NewsId=2289

Sizzler

Im seeing about 3 flyers a month now from such "charities". Ive yet to see any people leave stuff out though around my area, I think most people have copped on

Theres usually a mobile number given with the flyer though, so next time you get one ring it and say you're going to report them !

On a similar note there was two eastern european people "working" on behalf of concern in our area some months ago (although they neglected to get permission from Concern!) and they knocked on the wrong door, lady left them at the door to go her her purse ahem, and went upstairs and called the cops, cue a cop car 5 mins later and the 2 spunkers were nicked

Celticfire

Sizzler wrote:

Im seeing about 3 flyers a month now from such "charities".

Sometimes I can get up to 3 bags a week coming through the letterbox.

Hotblack Desiato

Sponge Bob wrote:

They cannot LEGALLY call themselves a charity in Ireland because they are not REGISTERED AS A CHARITY in Ireland.

Really, is there any regulation at all of charities here?
AFAIK there's nothing stopping you calling the "SpongeBob Intoxicating Beverages Fund - Please Give Generously" a charity and going out collecting money, the Revenue will in all likelihood refuse to grant you charitable tax exemption but that's a different thing. Anyway, that only bothers people who care about tax compliance...
I believe PrimeTime did a programme on charities 3 - 4 years ago saying basically the field was wide open and not much if at all has changed since then.
There are a number of respectable looking charities out there who eat up rather too much of the funds they collect on "administration".

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

ninja900 wrote:

Really, is there any regulation at all of charities here?

simple answer - no, not really

according to the Revenue Commissioners: "there is no legal framework for the registration of charities in Ireland"

http://www.revenue.ie/leaflets/faq_chy.pdf

it does make you wonder, doesn't it?!

campers

In Limerick, I get several of those stickers from bogus "charities" each week...

Who are they fooling anyway:

• No registered charity number
• Phoney company registration number (...of no relevance for a charity anyway)
• Only a mobile number
• Collection day is PREPRINTED on the stickers... so either they have 7 different rolls of stickers, or they employ Santa Claus to cover every house in a single day

....getting sick of them now.... them and junk mail and free "newspapers".

vector

the fake charities tend to only supply stickers, while the real ones supply bags

Oryx

Just ripped up one of those stickers. The website on it was for something to do with mitsubishi in Italian

Can these people really be making money from sifting thru peoples cast off clothes? Honestly there must be easier ways to scam people?

Sponge Bob

seems they are leafleting everywhere in Galway at present .

these fake clothing charities do not supply bags (yet) , that is correct.

Samson

KatieK wrote:

Can these people really be making money from sifting thru peoples cast off clothes? Honestly there must be easier ways to scam people?

I remember listening to Liveline a while ago, and this came up:
There was a discussion about these so-called charity clothes collections and one particular woman rang in to say that she had just been to Paris on holiday and whilst browsing through the used clothing stalls at a flea market, happened to come across an item of clothing that she had given to one of these "charity" collections some time previously, for sale.
Joe was a little dubious, but the lady was positive that it was her item of clothing, so Joe asked her how she could be so sure.
She said there were 3 distinguishing things -
1. It was St. Bernard (Dunne's Stores) branded, which would be rare enough for Paris.
2. It had a distinctive mark/flaw somewhere on the inside.
3. Her child's initials were on the care label.

RainyDay

Samson wrote:

I remember listening to Liveline a while ago, and this came up:
There was a discussion about these so-called charity clothes collections and one particular woman rang in to say that she had just been to Paris on holiday and whilst browsing through the used clothing stalls at a flea market, happened to come across an item of clothing that she had given to one of these "charity" collections some time previously, for sale.
Joe was a little dubious, but the lady was positive that it was her item of clothing, so Joe asked her how she could be so sure.
She said there were 3 distinguishing things -
1. It was St. Bernard (Dunne's Stores) branded, which would be rare enough for Paris.
2. It had a distinctive mark/flaw somewhere on the inside.
3. Her child's initials were on the care label.

I don't see what the problem is here. Better to see the clothes getting used than filling up a landfill somewhere.

Sponge Bob

RainyDay wrote:

Better to see the clothes getting used than filling up a landfill somewhere.

Most ARE landfilled.

RainyDay

My comment was specifically about them ending up for sale elsewhere. I really doubt that there is widespread landfilling of this stuff. If they are landfilling legally, they are paying the waste charges, which is likely to be punitive. If they a repeatedly fly-tipping, all it takes is a call to the Litter Wardens (maybe with a mobile phone picture) to get this sorted. I doubt if this is happening on an ongoing, widespread basis.

I did hear that many of the 'charities' are simply recycling and/or selling the clothes - so what, imho. The householder has got rid of something they didn't want.

netwhizkid

KatieK wrote:

Just ripped up one of those stickers. The website on it was for something to do with mitsubishi in Italian

Can these people really be making money from sifting thru peoples cast off clothes? Honestly there must be easier ways to scam people?

Ah crap, I feel truly conned, I gave away a lot of good clothes to these guys honestly thinking they were for real charitable donations, I washed them and all first, about three black garbage bags full. Those nasty f*ckers, Oh well don't blame me I done all I could to persuade people to vote No2Nice.

Attached is the sticker I received, obviously the same one as KatieK received. Funnily enough, I have never received one myself as I live out the country but they are always thrown into one of the investment properties I own in the village though.

It was thrown in about three weeks ago. I "donated" :mad: my good old clothes about two months ago, I am so mad now as their was Armani T-shirts and Abercrombie & Fitch etc that I no longer wore and that cost alot of money many I picked up while in New York for one of my little splurges in recent years.

I will tell my relations who are holidaying in the house for the next 3 weeks to challenge them if the come around again.

Sponge Bob

same sticker as Galway but with a .lt website instead.

MOH

Acccording to www.cro.ie, the company number on the sticker is registered to 'Hand Collection Service Limited' in Rathfarnham in Dublin, registered last December. So if it is a scam somebody's gone to the trouble of setting up a legit company anyway.

ircoha

Acccording to www.cro.ie, the company number on the sticker is registered to 'Hand Collection Service Limited' in Rathfarnham in Dublin, registered last December. So if it is a scam somebody's gone to the trouble of setting up a legit company anyway.

A simple case of identity theft

Doubt.It

In Galway here. I've received the yellow sticker as in the image linked above, the only difference being that it has a different Lithuanian web address - www.vgn.remo.lt instead of www.icn.lt. This however is also nonexistent - to be precise, it's a 403. I'm guessing no such page ever existed. Though Remo.lt is real, it looks like it's just an ISP.

You know what made me suspicious here? The lack of a name for the charity. Charities are normally, well, called something... Also the way Chernobyl was thrown in. I suspect they think most people lump these countries in together.

As people have said, there's no real problem with selling used clothing to raise money. The question is whether the money actually goes to charity, or into someone's pockets. I can't be 100% sure this is a scam, but God it stinks of it.

Sponge Bob

Its a scam. They are not registered as a charity in ireland and are not legally allowed to call themselves a charity here. The ISP probably deleted the page in response to police queries.

They drive around on the day they mentioned in a black bmw and a transit van and check the bags first to see if they want the clothes .

Give your surplus clothing to Enable Ireland who have a load of bring banks around Galway or to Vincent de Paul. That requires getting off your arse and bringing it to them I am sorry to tell you

lostexpectation

it is stange they must travel aroudn the cities

http://www2.limerickpost.ie/fullnews.elive?id=14&category=news

However, when Limerick City Council were provided with the names of eight clothing collections for which we have fliers, only one, the Urgent Clothing Appeal (operating through a company called Hand Collection) appeared on the council�s list of waste collection permits.

a search for hand colection services
http://euro.recycle.net/trade/aa1044551.html


a search for Gytis Kacenauskas
Asylum seekers face appeal deadline tomorrow
Gytis Kacenauskas (Lithuania) and Maria Todorova (Bulgaria) explain their situation, while Sr Joan Roddy is concerned at the overall picture

* none of the companies listed had the a required waste collection permit from Limerick City Council although one company, Hand Collection Service Limited, who collect on behalf of Caritas, has applied for a license.

I think I looked that up before and they be only semi legit one??

Doubt.It

Unfortunately the news story your search found dates from 2003, so it could be a different Gytis Kacenauskas. Well, it could... The link to the actual streaming media doesn't seem to work anymore.

But Caritas, the charity that Hand Collection claim to work on behalf of, sound familiar because they are a big international Catholic organization known by that name worldwide.

Except of course in Ireland, where we know them as Trócaire...

SouperComputer

Sometimes I can get up to 3 bags a week coming through the letterbox.

Yep, when I was living in Clondalkin I was getting about three a week over a period of two years. Annoying to say the least

Nightwish

I got 2 in the door today. One with a company number 2184994A, which I checked with the Company Registration Office, and turned out to be a bogus number. The other is from a charity called Second Life, based in Ukraine. I checked with the Revenue Commissioners, and there is no charity with that name, nor with the number on the sticker.

Sponge Bob

set the guards on them

RainyDay

See today's Irish Times for an interesting article on this issue.

bambam

RainyDay wrote:

See today's Irish Times for an interesting article on this issue.

Testing charities on your doorstep

Doorstep collections of goods are lucrative for charities. But how can you tell the bogus from the genuine, asks Shane Hegarty

The first time Philip Elliott collected bags of donated clothes, curtains and bed linen from doorsteps of a north Co Dublin estate a couple of months ago, he says that he was waved down by men in two vans. Three men got out of them, pierced his tyre, took the bags, and told him not to come back. This was their area.

Recently, after travelling from his home in Co Down to collect in Co Kildare, four men stopped him, pushed him up against his van and told him not to come here again. This was their area, they said, adding: "Don't come back to the South."

One gang, he says, consisted of Irish men, while the other was made up of non-nationals. In between, there were phone calls to his house, warning him against collecting door-to-door. But he continues to pick up unwanted goods for the Northern Irish-based Belarussian Chernobyl Children's Charity.

"I'm not easily scared, and these boys aren't doing this for nothing. There must be money in it for them, so there must be money to be made for the charities, and if we can make a hole in it, it will really help."

The world of the door-to-door charity is a lucrative one, and one in which you can't always be sure if the van taking the bag from your doorstep belongs to a legitimate charity or to a bogus one likely to sell the clothes on for profit - often to eastern Europe. Increasingly, there is an extra element: organised thieves who are taking the bags and selling the contents in car-boot sales.

What should be a feel-good aspect of modern life, an "everybody wins" situation in which householders get rid of unwanted goods and help the less well-off, has become a honeypot for fraudsters. It has become enough of a problem that at least one local authority has begun staking out housing estates in the hope of catching fraudulent collectors.

Charity leaflets have become a familiar sight in Irish letter boxes, a mix of the convincing and the suspect. The more carefully crafted fakes will contain authentic-looking charity numbers, phone numbers and a promise that the clothes will go to people in an underdeveloped country. Yet, there is no registration of Irish charities and the English numbers featured are not always traceable. The phone numbers given may either not connect or lead to pay-as-you-go mobiles with no message service, so that they cannot be tracked later.

The Irish Times recently attempted to verify a selection of leaflets dropped through letterboxes in north Co Dublin. Of eight - promising to send goods to, amongst others, African orphans, Eastern European children, and "under-developed countries, to improve their lives and welfare", only two could be confirmed as legitimate UK charities, although one of those did not return calls, and one as a genuine Irish charity. The rest of the phone numbers led only to dead ends, and one leaflet had no information other than a promise that the clothes or bed linen left out would go to Africa, and that the bags should be left out on Wednesday morning.

All that is not to say that those organisations collecting the bags are not legitimate - only that it wasn't possible to verify that they are.Given the number of leaflets in circulation, there are relatively few complaints made. The Garda press office says it is unaware of anyone being arrested for an offence specifically related to charity bags.

Yet charities such as Enable and Oxfam certainly are unhappy, as are legitimate charity shops. The cashing in by fraudsters on the doorstep collection market is having a direct impact on the amount of goods being received by genuine charities. In the UK, where the Office of Fair Trading has run a public awareness campaign, the Association of Charity Shops has estimated that such fraud costs its members £1 million (€1.5m) a year. There have also been suggestions of paramilitary involvement in scams in the North.

It has also flourished in the grey areas of legislation, which does not currently require charities to be registered - although there is a list of those which receive tax breaks. There has also been uncertainty over where these bags stand under waste-collection laws.

Only recently have local authorities' waste-enforcement offices decided that, although the items are supposedly going for re-use, once they are being "thrown out" they should be considered waste and that collectors should first apply for a permit to do so.

"Over the past 12 to 18 months, there has been an increase in door-to-door collections carried out by commercial rag merchants asking for unwanted clothing, etc," says Paul Dunphy of Oxfam. "There has been concern raised by the general public and in the media around the legitimacy of these commercial door-to-door collections and that the public are being given the impression that the money raised from the sale of the stock collected by these organisations goes to charity when in many instances it does not." This has not dissuaded the charity from continuing door-to-door collections, as it is currently engaged in its Clear ur Gear campaign.

"We would advise the public if they want to be sure that their donation of stock is benefiting a charity they should either take it to their local Oxfam shop, other charity shop or only give it to those charities that carry out door-to-door collections and whose collection material bears the Irish Charity Shop Association logo. The logo will read Irish Charity Shops Association and will include a picture of a clothes hanger," advises Dunphy.

Attitudes on the problem vary between local authorities, but Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown County Council has become particularly active in cracking down on bogus waste collectors, a category in which it includes charity scams. It has even begun to stake out areas in which it knows collections are due to take place, although no one has yet been apprehended. However, its environment department has noticed an increase in the number of bags being dumped, with anecdotal evidence of systematic stealing of bags from doorsteps.

Given that leaflets name the time at which people should leave their goods on the doorstep, and give two or three days notice, it makes things very easy for an enterprising thief.

"The evidence points to this being a more widespread problem than we had thought," says Aidan Conroy of Dún Laoghaire/Rathdown County Council's waste enforcement office. "Without having any firm evidence yet to back this up, it would seem that much of it is destined for the car-boot sale market."

Part of the problem is that it remains difficult to nail down swindlers. If waste is found in a charity bag, it may have been stolen, illegally dumped or might have been left out by a householder unaware that the "charity" is a fake. Conroy says that the county council is considering setting up an information phone line so people can double-check the veracity of any leaflet claiming to represent a charity. "It would be to educate people, and not some form of entrapment."

As for Philip Elliott, he says that he has seen enough around the housing estates to convince him that this is a good way of raising funds for the Belarussian Chernobyl Children's Charity, and will not be deterred. It is a profitable business, and he believes that benefits still outweigh the difficulties. At the moment, he collects with the assistance of an independent company that has the required permit, but insists that he would pick up every bag himself if necessary.

"We've set a target of raising money," he adds "and in the long term this is an easy way of doing it."

Doubt.It

Darn, they beat me! My article will be in the Galway City Tribune on Friday.

karlmarcks

RainyDay wrote:

My comment was specifically about them ending up for sale elsewhere. I really doubt that there is widespread landfilling of this stuff. If they are landfilling legally, they are paying the waste charges, which is likely to be punitive. If they a repeatedly fly-tipping, all it takes is a call to the Litter Wardens (maybe with a mobile phone picture) to get this sorted. I doubt if this is happening on an ongoing, widespread basis.

I did hear that many of the 'charities' are simply recycling and/or selling the clothes - so what, imho. The householder has got rid of something they didn't want.

Your old clothes can go to many real charities. If instead they go to scammers, you have helped the scammers to steal from the beneficiaries of those real charities. That's why you shouldn't.

Many charities are reporting declines in their income dur to the activities of the scammers of various kinds...

ejmaztec

There's obviously a huge market for this stuff. Central and Eastern europe is riddled with shops selling second-hand clothing from the older EU countries. Sometimes, at first glance, you can't tell that some of the stuff is second-hand. It's more obvious when the brand name is the same as that of a chain, M&S etc...

Jack Sheehan

I also heard some of them supply rag dealers.

RainyDay

karlmarcks wrote:

Many charities are reporting declines in their income dur to the activities of the scammers of various kinds...

Source?

TheDriver

....getting sick of them now.... them and junk mail and free "newspapers".[/QUOTE]

And leaflets for filling oil tank in an estate with all gas heating
Or leaflets to sell your house constantly

Belfafter

In belfast we get 3 or 4 of these fake flyers every week.
There was even a big fight between 2 vanloads of "charity collectors" down our street.
One van got all its windows broke and the bags took out of it and put in the other van:)
Everybody says it is 2 guys organising them all - some guy Davis and Dunlop from the city somewhere.
Anybody out there see where all these vans unload?must be a big yard somewhere?

Sizzler

We get a minimum of 2 of these leaflets a week and when heading out in the morning theres always the same 2 lads in a transit cruising around looking for bags.

Never had a doubt in my mind what was really going on, I'm just pi**ed off that something cant be done about it

Anybody who has clothes to give should drop it down to the local charity shop.

cudman

any charity in ireland has to have a registered charity number. If you think its bad in galway, come to kildare. I get at least 3 of these a week through the door.
Do what I do and use their bag for my rubbish (it saves you about 12c).
What really saddened me was tuesday morning I saw that some idiot had actually left the bag out full of clothes. I didnt think people could be that stupid (apologies to the person above who fell for it).

gazzer

I live in Dublin 15. I get these leaflets in my letterbox at least 3 times a week for the last year. I have gone out a couple of time to the person posting the leaflets (happened to be at home when they were delivered) I asked them where their charity was located but they just shrugged and said 'No English'

parsi

We use the Enable Ireland and the Gorta bags. Any other bags are used to gather stuff until Enable or Gorta come around.

Hotblack Desiato

cudman wrote: »

any charity in ireland has to have a registered charity number.

Actually, they don't, and there is practically zero regulation of charities here.
The charity number is just proof that Revenue have granted them tax exempt status. It says nothing about how well they are run, what proportion of their income goes on 'expenses', etc. There's no legal requirement to even meet that level of 'regulation'. It's a disgrace really and the public are being taken for fools left right and centre.

Sizzler

Anybody take it up with their local TD

eth0_

Does anyone have the name of someone in Dublin City Council who would deal with this?
We have been getting some from the same guy, have had about 4 stickers through the door from him in the past month (we must get 3-4 a week from different collectors!). There was an email address on the sticker which i've been able to find out his real name, and when I googled that, I found out that he runs a company that sells on clothes to the textile trade.

He's collecting the stuff on Friday so i'd love if the council were able to catch and hopefully deport the scumbag.

cudman

ninja900 wrote: »

Actually, they don't, and there is practically zero regulation of charities here.
The charity number is just proof that Revenue have granted them tax exempt status. It says nothing about how well they are run, what proportion of their income goes on 'expenses', etc. There's no legal requirement to even meet that level of 'regulation'. It's a disgrace really and the public are being taken for fools left right and centre.

Maybe so, but its funny that what I posted is what was said in an article from vincent de paul or trocaire or someone a couple of months ago

cgarvey

Nothing at all illegal calling yourself a charity, here.

Guards won't be interested, as it'd be a civil matter if you wanted to challenge them on their misleading statements (like, say, an invalid registered charity number)

The local authority are unlikely to have the will, or the resources, to take action against them (and that's assuming that the court will agree with the thinking that if you're leaving it out for collection, it's to be considered waste, and therefore in need of a license).

Belfafter

The best guys to contact to get something done about bogus collectors is the local councils waste enforcement officials.
Under EU waste law all these collectors have to have a waste management certificate and collection permit with vehicle regs on it for the area they are in.
I know for sure they have seized quite a few of their vans in Dublin recently because they hadnt the right permits.
If you get a sticker in your door ring the council and let them know.
I think they are obligated to check it out.

this is a bit old but shows something can be done http://www.donotdelay.org/index.php?pageid=4

Belfafter

Also found these sites - intersecond is the main culprit it seems

http://www.getreading.co.uk:80/news/2008/2008578/suspicions_over_charity_leaflet

http://www.northlancing.com:80/Comments/Emails%20received.htm

mooncoin2

have a look at this flyer, is this the same scam???

Sam Vimes

since their mobile number doesn't exist, they don't give a company name and the only reference on google to that registered number is this thread and some romanian website I'm going to go with yes.

I wish I could catch one of them putting one of those leaflets in my letterbox so I could shove it up their hole

Sponge Bob

The Romanians seem to be at it too .

Its better than their old scam of robbing Enable Ireland clothing banks I suppose .

Not much better mind

I must stress again that the only way to guarantee that the clothes are given to a proper charity is to bring them direct to the charity yourself .

calex71

good to see this thread dug up again, Im getting one of these in the door every day . lost count of the times ive seen the collection van on it rounds
stops on the way out of our area at the bottom of the road, gypsy jumps out takes the sign down and drives off again.

I sickens me that people will gladly turn over stuff to the likes of these guys
and either not question their lagitimacy or more likely not care as they are
and easy way to get rid of some clutter and to lazy to actually take it to
a charity shop. which is the reason we are seeing more of these comming in the door not less.

10-10-20

I have a supply of bin-bags courtesy of these scam artists... I get a flyer almost every day and a bin-bag every week!
I notice the neighbours leaving stuff out, a lot of is is not collected... they are picky!