Overtaking technique

SonOfPerdition

nereid wrote:

Yes, I agree, but the in the context in which I was replying, the power/torque of a vehicle is independant to the method of the overtake. It should be taken into account, but there are general principles that apply to the manouvre.

I specified that without considering power/torque, observation and reaction were key to the overtake.

<SNIP><
L.

I agree with 99% of what you are saying. i replied to your post because you suggested that advanced driving/riding courses don't take power/torque into account in the manouvre. I don't agree with that particular statement . .i believe that the Rospa does take it into account, its one part of a whole series of considerations . . road positioning .. observation ... acceleration sense .. mechanical sympathy etc.

I think in context what you're saying (and i'd agree) ... the major aspects of a safe overtake are the essentials, road position, observation etc and those essentials are consistant acrosss all vehicles.

SonOfPerdition

Gerry wrote:

In the common situation, where there is oncoming traffic some way off, the rate at which you overtake ( plus an initial delay ) is the difference between a near miss, a slightly dodgy manouever, or a perfectly safe manouever.

But each overtake is different. The rate of progress is only one aspect of a whole series of considerations that make the manouvre safe or unsafe.

I'd say the experience and attitude of the person doing the overtake is more important than the rate of overtake.

peasant

The slower you overtake, the more time you spend on the wrong side of the road, the bigger the chance of something unforeseen/unplanned happening while you're out there ...

...hence, don't dawdle.

SonOfPerdition

peasant wrote:

The slower you overtake, the more time you spend on the wrong side of the road, the bigger the chance of something unforeseen/unplanned happening while you're out there ...

...hence, don't dawdle.

Don't confuse slow/fast overtakes with safe overtakes.

peasant

Don't confuse slow/fast overtakes with safe overtakes.

I'm not ... I only overtake when it would be safe to do so pretty much regardless of speed, but I still do it quickly, just to reduce the risk of something else happening while I'm out there, that I hadn't factored into my initial reckoning.

pclancy

Would you recommend that roadcraft book?

Gerry

SonOfPerdition wrote:

But each overtake is different. The rate of progress is only one aspect of a whole series of considerations that make the manouvre safe or unsafe.

I'd say the experience and attitude of the person doing the overtake is more important than the rate of overtake.

I'm aware of that. I'm assuming that the driver has taken the other considerations into account.

ninty9er

Overtook heading for 80kph in 3rd in the Corsa on a straight stretch of road this evenin. Mad a massive difference and will be pulling back to 3rd in future and hitting 5th then after overtake. It did sound rough but I felt like I was going supersonic in a Corsa. Bigger cars, even my dad's 1.4 Xsara is almost silent doing this and do not feel fast, but I sure felt it.

It was fairly safe as Caherconlish main street* is closed for resurfacing and most people are taking the detour recommended which I didn't, I met 3 cars over about 6 miles

unkel

ninty9er wrote:

Overtook heading for 80kph in 3rd in the Corsa on a straight stretch of road this evenin. Mad a massive difference and will be pulling back to 3rd in future

Nice one. So you took green-bloods experience and / or my gut feeling to the test. I'm glad overtaking will be just that bit safer for you in future

BTW my gut feeling was based on driving similarly powered 70s / 80s cars

Gerry

ninty9er wrote:

Overtook heading for 80kph in 3rd in the Corsa on a straight stretch of road this evenin. Mad a massive difference and will be pulling back to 3rd in future and hitting 5th then after overtake. It did sound rough but I felt like I was going supersonic in a Corsa. Bigger cars, even my dad's 1.4 Xsara is almost silent doing this and do not feel fast, but I sure felt it.

It was fairly safe as Caherconlish main street* is closed for resurfacing and most people are taking the detour recommended which I didn't, I met 3 cars over about 6 miles

Fair play. Hopefully more people will follow your example.

Squirrel

Yesterday I was driving to training in Marlay park on the road that runs right beside the M50 across the top of Marlay, Colleg Road I think it is. I was coming from the Whitechurch direction and as I came over the brow of the hill I seea Ford Focus on my side of the road about 50 metres away, I break hard and flash my lights at him and he pulls in about 15 metres away from me and he gives me the finger, at that point I had slowed down to below 10mph. I don't go past cyclists where he was because of cars coming up the hill

SonOfPerdition

pclancy wrote:

Would you recommend that roadcraft book?

Roadcraft is aimed primarily at the motorcyclist. If you ride a motorbike i would highly recommend it.

However, many techniques and most of the information in it is just as valid for car drivers, so it's worth a read if you can get your hands on a copy.

mkennedy

hi.
a bit off topic but i just wanted to get some of your opinions about overtaking multiple vehicles (safely obviously).

there's probably an obvious answer to this so sorry if it's been dealt with before. if you are in the process of overtaking a line of say 4 or 5 cars after you have clearly signalled your intent to do so (assuming no oncoming traffic/ straight clear view ahead etc) and a car in that line subsequently decides to overtake as well possibly causing you to brake/ pull in prematurely who is at fault?

also, do you think there is an absolute limit to the number of vehicles (e.g 5 or more?) you can overtake (no matter how good the conditions are (ie slow moving traffic/no oncoming traffic/straight, wide road etc).

i'd appreciate your opinions on this.
thanks.

Hotblack Desiato

SonOfPerdition wrote:

Roadcraft is aimed primarily at the motorcyclist. If you ride a motorbike i would highly recommend it. However, many techniques and most of the information in it is just as valid for car drivers, so it's worth a read if you can get your hands on a copy.

Nope. The original, car, version is called Roadcraft. The bike version is called Motorcycle Roadcraft.

green-blood

mr MK, so long as you are not breaking the speed limit and you have clear vision you are entitled to overtake as many vehicles as you like.

You MUST check your mirrors before any manoever, remember - mirror, signal, manoever, hence anyone pulling out to overtake while you are already performing the same manoever is at fault. Proving it is another issue!!

mkennedy

green-blood wrote:

mr MK, so long as you are not breaking the speed limit and you have clear vision you are entitled to overtake as many vehicles as you like.

You MUST check your mirrors before any manoever, remember - mirror, signal, manoever, hence anyone pulling out to overtake while you are already performing the same manoever is at fault. Proving it is another issue!!

thanks for that.
i was just always curious about the rights and wrongs of this.
not that i've ever engaged in any ill-advised multiple overtaking manouevres myself, of course.
thanks.