Ford vs Toyota

Vegeta

Ok lads was wondering who do you think currently make better cars.

Toyota or Ford.

I like to think of it in the following terms,

avensis or mondeo = a mondeo win.
corolla or focus = a focus thanks very much
yaris or fiesta = a new fiesta please.

Are you of the same opinion???

Lex Luthor

Is this Sonnenblum in disguise?

maidhc

Both the Mondeo, and Fiesta are at the end of their lives.

Toyota engines are better IMO, but Ford probably make better all rounders.

Dcully

Toyota for me,no competition.

unkel

Where's Colm?

As for best, on all three it depends on what you value in a car. Depends on your budget too

gyppo

I agree with unkel. Toyota make good cars, no mistake. However, I believe them to be over-rated, with resultantly expensive resale values.

It boils down to the type of buyer you are:
If you're in the market for a new car, and like to trade after 1/2 years, buy the toyota.
However, if you're buying used, buy ford, and get better value for money.

I've been shopping around and looked at Avensis D4D's, and Mondeo TDci's.

An 04 avensis with 46k miles would cost the same as an 05 Mondeo Zetec TDci with 25K miles. Needless to say, the ford looks altogether a more attractive proposition.

Vegeta

the reason i ask this is because a guy i live with would never buy a ford no matter what and is completely pro toyota.

I on the other hand just like the mondeo more than the avensis.

The focus is a much better car than the corolla, my brother had a focus and it wasa fantastic car to drive. My best friend has given me a spin in a corolla and i was underwhelmed beyond belief.

They new yaris is ghastly and the new fiesta are a lovely looking car. I haven't been in/driven either.

I drive a corolla myself just for the record. I was looking at changing for a diesel due to fuel economy in the future. And the mondeo, passat and avensis are my main candidates.

Vegeta

unkel wrote:

Where's Colm?

As for best, on all three it depends on what you value in a car. Depends on your budget too

personally i value.

Fuel economy/performance/reliability/looks/price/handling/running costs.

not in that order

mike65

I'd proberly choose on looks (how girly) so go with a Mondeo over the horrid bulk of the Avensis.

Mike.

colm_mcm

The Focus and Mondeo class are only a small slice of the market. The reason Toyota is so big is because it provides the sort of cars that people can depend on. For example in Australlia, Once Land Rover had a 98% market share in off roaders. Once the Land Cruiser went on sale, that figure dropped to under 5%. Toyota must be doing something right as they're selling more cars and making more money than anyone I can think of!

If you're simply putting Irish offerings head to head, then the Verso beats the C-max, on practicality, the Yaris beats the Fiesta on safety, Ford don't have an Aygo class car, or Landcruiser, or Rav4, or Hilux (unless you consider the ancient Mazda B2500 based Ranger)

Whether one car is better than another is fairly subjective, but the fact is that Toyota's sales are on the up.

mikedragon32

Would the Ka not fit into the Aygo category or does the 1.3 engine rule it out?

ninty9er

The Mondeo is alright but doesn't come with 9 airbags or 8 speakers as standard. I also find black door handles repulsing so the Mondeo in base spec sickens me.


The focus wins the C Segment but the current Corolla is 3 yrs its senior so expect more from the next Corolla

Yaris wins hands down because you can get a 1.0 engine which is very important in this class while Ford only introduced the 1.25 mid 05 until then it was 1.4 only. Plus the first batch of the facelifted Fiesta had a list of common glitches as long as the options list on a 3 Series

So your asking us to choose between ford, the perfector of modern mass production or Toyota the inventors of TQM.

Now is it difficult to see why Toyota has such a loyal following - They invented TQM. That tells you something. Every car manufacturer wants to be Toyota. While Ford, GM et al are laying off millions the Toyota global workforce is growing steadily.

bazz26

Toyota or Ford, I don't think one is really any better than the other to be honest. Which one you buy really depends on the individual choosing.

This question is like asking which is the better colour, red or blue?

Personnally I dont think the Fiesta, Focus or Mondeo are any better looking designs inside or outside than their Toyota counter parts. Both manufacturers make dull looking mass market family cars designed to do what it says on the tin.

Yes Fords probably are the better "driver's car" of the two but to be honest how many people who are in the market for these type cars really put "driver's car" at the top of their wish list when choosing a "family hatchback"? My guess is that practicality, safety, comfort, economy and reliability are the main things that these people want from these cars.

Imo both manufacturers are about equal when it comes to these factors and definately there is no huge difference between one or the other like some suggest.

bazz26

ninty9er wrote:

Every car manufacturer wants to be Toyota.

Even as a loyal biased Toyota owner for the last 5.5 years I would not go that far.

green-blood

I also find black door handles repulsing so the Mondeo in base spec sickens me.

hmm you've got issue mate

BrianD3

I regularly drive a Focus Mk2 and occasionally drive a Mondeo 1.8 and a Fiesta 1.4 TDCi. To be honest I find the cars ugly, uncomfortable, dull, bland and boring inside and out. OK the Mondeo and Focus do handle very well (the Fiesta less so IMO) but very little else about these Fords appeals to me. The Focus Mk2 is particularly dull

As for Toyota, I don't think they are any more boring than the Fords although admittedly i don't have much experience of modern Toyota but I do know the Yaris and Avensis are newer designs than their Ford competitors.

emeraldstar

Ford imo. I'm not too fond of Toyotas tbh, but I'm not sure why!! I like the Mondeo and Focus both on looks (inside and out) and to drive, but I've never driven a Fiesta

RoundyMooney

Styling: Ford.

Mechanicals/engineering/reliability: Toyota all the way.

Yes, the Fords look better these days, (about bloody time after the dross they served up throughout the eighties and the earlier half of the nineties), and have the advantage over Toyota, in terms of the youth of their present line up in most cases anyway.

However, I still remember their staples of the last decade, the last of the Escorts, the 89-95 or so Fiestas, the Scorpio etc.

How many of those are left now? I see a damn sight more Starlets and Corollas about then I do Fiestas, Escorts, or Granada/Scorpios.

And they did sell, with the exception of the bug eyed successor to the jelly like Granada.

Anyway, if I were to be given the choice, I'd probably take a Focus over a Corolla, at least until Toyota roll out their new one.

That should illustrate how subjective this debate really is, or how shallow I am. I'm not sure which.

ninty9er

bazz26 wrote:

Even as a loyal biased Toyota owner for the last 5.5 years I would not go that far.

I meant in terms of profits, sales, build and customer base. perhaps not on style

Henry Ford III

colm_mcm wrote:

The Focus and Mondeo class are only a small slice of the market. The reason Toyota is so big is because it provides the sort of cars that people can depend on. For example in Australlia, Once Land Rover had a 98% market share in off roaders. Once the Land Cruiser went on sale, that figure dropped to under 5%. Toyota must be doing something right as they're selling more cars and making more money than anyone I can think of!

If you're simply putting Irish offerings head to head, then the Verso beats the C-max, on practicality, the Yaris beats the Fiesta on safety, Ford don't have an Aygo class car, or Landcruiser, or Rav4, or Hilux (unless you consider the ancient Mazda B2500 based Ranger)

Whether one car is better than another is fairly subjective, but the fact is that Toyota's sales are on the up.

Due to the nature of your job I have to question your impartiality on this Colm.

You make some valid points - i.e Toyota compete in areas of the market Ford do not.

In the passenger car market Focus/Corolla and Mondeo/Avensis are crucial sectors. Isn't the Focus the biggest selling car in Ireland?

I don't work in the business like you do, and I decided to check out some of your other assertions. Guess what the press don't agree. Parkers review of the Corolla Verso gives it credit for having 2 extra kid sized seats, but says it's not as good to drive as a C-Max for example. I could go on but trust I've made my point.

Any salesman, commission hungry and incentified, can never be expected to be impartial. He will always make the strongest case for his Employers products, just as you have done above. It doesn't mean your are correct in what you say however.

For what it's worth my view is that both companies make some quality products.

ninty9er

Henry Ford III wrote:

I don't work in the business like you do, and I decided to check out some of your other assertions. Guess what the press don't agree. Parkers review of the Corolla Verso gives it credit for having 2 extra kid sized seats, but says it's not as good to drive as a C-Max for example. I could go on but trust I've made my point.

For what it's worth my view is that both companies make some quality products.

Never trust an item not published specifically for the Irish market as they rarely apply in the case of Iris motoring ... i.e WhatCar's residual expectations. Never use Autofinder.ie for Irish market expectations either as all reviews are from the UK in terms of this info

Toyota had the biggest share of passenger cars last year in Ireland (14.1%) Outselling Ford by almost 4000 passenger cars and are already nearing that excess again this year. But I would probably agree that's more to do with the Avensis and Landcruiser than the Corolla and Yaris, which still have massive followings that the likes of Nissan would kill for

Jumanji

Vegeta wrote:

corolla or focus = a focus thanks very much

Couldn't disagree with you more!!!

Having owned & driven both for quite a while, the Corolla would win every time.

The Focus is a hyped up pile of Sh!te in my opinion.
I've never been SO glad to get rid of a car in all my life:- big dead, underpowered, heavy barge.
Absolutely detest the car. Never again will I buy a Ford.

The Corolla is the complete opposite, & I absolutely love it.

BIG BIG BIG thumbs down for the Focus

Dcully

The focus is dire slow compared to Corrolla,nothing special about either in the looks department inside or out-id go with the corrolla.

The mondeo looks so dated its untrue,having said that the latest TDCi engines are crackers,the avensis is a prettier car in everyway but again nothing special - again id probably go with the toyota here.

Yaris or Fiesta? No comment i dislike all things small

Both companies make quality motors but toyota just shade it for looks but only just and as i say nothing special,id tend to lean towards a toyota as they are more reliable imo.

pburns

Well according to this article, Toyota quality is by no means a certainty.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/motoring/2006/0719/1152913444608.html

Basically, they are flat-out trying to pass GM at the moment & quality/development might be suffering. I owned a Toyota Avensis for almost 4 years. I was impressed with customer service (the well-known engine-block problem was fixed without a fuss).

However, as a whole, the car was a disappointment. The engine/running gear felt like they'd go on forever (despite the problem outlined above). But the rest of the car felt really insubstantial - if you wound down the windows they rattled in the door-frames, 'tinny' rattles from bootlid, metal was paper-thin (you couldn't push the bonnet down without it flexing - had to let it fall from about 4/5 inches). Some of the interior fittings were of very low quality. In a nutshell, cheap materials but well screwed together. VW may be the opposite - quality materials, but QC of assembly not so good(?).

I still have a Japanese car - Mazda 6, but it feels much more substantial. Toyota, I think measure quality in a scientific way - the tactile 'feel' of materials is not such a priority (& costs have to be minimised somewhere)

Squirrel

From valeting in a used car dealer I worked on one Avensis and one Mondeo, and I have to say I preferred being in and around the Avensis. Then again, for their normal saloons I wouldn't choose either. There's the Passat, the well stocked Hyundai Sonata, they're not the only two manufacturers around.

Squirrel

pburns wrote:

I still have a Japanese car - Mazda 6, but it feels much more substantial.

Is the Mazda 6 not a Mondeo pretty much?

Henry Ford III

ninty9er wrote:

Never trust an item not published specifically for the Irish market as they rarely apply in the case of Iris motoring ... i.e WhatCar's residual expectations. Never use Autofinder.ie for Irish market expectations either as all reviews are from the UK in terms of this info

Toyota had the biggest share of passenger cars last year in Ireland (14.1%) Outselling Ford by almost 4000 passenger cars and are already nearing that excess again this year. But I would probably agree that's more to do with the Avensis and Landcruiser than the Corolla and Yaris, which still have massive followings that the likes of Nissan would kill for

Still it's better to take account of independent testers opinions on the relative merits of Toyota vs. Ford than a Toyota saleman's

They are driving the same cars.

Residuals are unique to the Irish market I agree. They are distorted by VRT and other factors.

Day-wanna-wonga

Vegeta wrote:

personally i value.

Fuel economy/performance/reliability/looks/price/handling/running costs.

not in that order

So, you basically value all aspects? How insightful....

Squirrel

Henry Ford III wrote:

Still it's better to take account of independent testers opinions on the relative merits of Toyota vs. Ford than a Toyota saleman's

They are driving the same cars.

Residuals are unique to the Irish market I agree. They are distorted by VRT and other factors.

BUt surely a Toyota salesman would know quite a lot of faults with the Toyota's. I know someone woh's now an ex-VW/Audi dealer, and he hated a fair few VAG cars because he knew them too well.

Henry Ford III

Squirrel wrote:

BUt surely a Toyota salesman would know quite a lot of faults with the Toyota's.....

He should, but would he mention them?

That's exactly why I questioned his ability to be impartial on this issue.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

Vegeta wrote:

Ok lads was wondering who do you think currently make better cars.

Toyota or Ford.

if you question is who makes "BETTER" car.... then it have to be Jap.
But a Toyota is as boring as and car gets. I would buy a ford over a Toyota any day... but Toyota is a better built car.

The Muppet

Henry Ford III wrote:

He should, but would he mention them?

That's exactly why I questioned his ability to be impartial on this issue.

I assume he only works for Toyota ,he doesn't own them.


On Topic

I have owned both Ford and Toyota (boring I know) I much prefer Toyota but would buy a Ford again if it suited my needs.

maidhc

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

But a Toyota is as boring as and car gets. I would buy a ford over a Toyota any day... but Toyota is a better built car.

Boring is very sujective. A BMW 3 series is every bit as "boring" as an Avensis, especially one with a sub 2000cc engine.

I don't agree about Toyotas being built better than Fords. My experience is quite the opposite. Maybe it is just the cars, but out of a Starlet (60k), Corolla (160k), 2 Avensi(60K + 90K), Mondeo(170k) and Focus(6k so far..60k troublefree miles before me), the Fords have been the more reliable, the Mondeo particularly more so than the Avensi.

Ford are also brilliant cars to drive, and you have to admire them for even building the Focus Mk1. And people shouldnt go around saying it is a crap car if they have never driven one with more than a 1.4 engine.

Jumanji

maidhc wrote:

Ford are also brilliant cars to drive, and you have to admire them for even building the Focus Mk1. And people shouldnt go around saying it is a crap car if they have never driven one with more than a 1.4 engine.

& My point is comparing like with like, which is what this thread is about, surely......

My Focus was a 1.4, my Corolla is a 1.4

The Focus was complete ****, as I said above, whereas the Corolla is pretty nippy for a 1.4

Therfore, in my mind, the Corolla is the better car.

I mean, why even bother making a 1.4 when the driver is required to get out & push it up any little bit of a hill at all!!! They're a joke.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

Jumanji wrote:

& My point is comparing like with like, which is what this thread is about, surely......

My Focus was a 1.4, my Corolla is a 1.4

The Focus was complete ****, as I said above, whereas the Corolla is pretty nippy for a 1.4

Therfore, in my mind, the Corolla is the better car.

I mean, why even bother making a 1.4 when the driver is required to get out & push it up any little bit of a hill at all!!! They're a joke.

oh sorry, i mistook the thread... i thought it was about the better car...
not faster car...

Vegeta

Day-wanna-wonga wrote:

So, you basically value all aspects? How insightful....

and i suppose you pick out cars for their smell :rolleyes:

Henry Ford III

Fair point. I agree the 1.4 Focus is a bit underpowered.

1.6 is a nice compromise however.

Vegeta

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

oh sorry, i mistook the thread... i thought it was about the better car...
not faster car...

exactly what i was thinking.

Like the focus is an around a few years now and if the only thing the corolla beats it is speed then toyota have a long way to go.

Like i currently drive a corolla, but would take a focus in an instant

layke

When I think corolla I think Jap design and economy and youngish, when I think ford i'm reminded of my greedy old boss and him getting his new Mondeo every year. I have driven a fair few corollas in my time but only a few Fords. However I think unless you have a Ztec engine under the hood of the Focus it's better suited to some random doris for her trips to church on a Sunday.

I admit I have a soft spot for Jap cars. I believe them to be the best designed in the world, so perhaps i'm biast.

So all in all imo Toyota is superior, also lets not forget the Ford scandals going back over the past few years in the US.

Although I believe Ford are now copying the Japs so they might produce a better car.

Jumanji

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

oh sorry, i mistook the thread... i thought it was about the better car...
not faster car...

Ah, stop nitpicking!!!

It was one of the MANY things I hated about the car

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

Jumanji wrote:

Ah, stop nitpicking!!!

It was one of the MANY things I hated about the car

excuse me, but that what you said...

"The Focus was complete ****, as I said above, whereas the Corolla is pretty nippy for a 1.4

Therfore, in my mind, the Corolla is the better car."

i'm sorry now... buy you could not make it any clearer to the rest of us.

bazz26

Vegeta wrote:

exactly what i was thinking.

Like the focus is an around a few years now and if the only thing the corolla beats it is speed then toyota have a long way to go.

Like i currently drive a corolla, but would take a focus in an instant

If you don't your Corolla then fair enough maybe your bored with it and need a change but it is hardly an inferior product. After all they have sold something like 30 million of them worldwide to date. That is no fluke.

Squirrel

Henry Ford III wrote:

He should, but would he mention them?

That's exactly why I questioned his ability to be impartial on this issue.

Do you not have something to do with Ford? If so, how can you be impartial?

Henry Ford III

Squirrel wrote:

Do you not have something to do with Ford? If so, how can you be impartial?

No I don't. I do drive them however.

Squirrel

Henry Ford III wrote:

No I don't. I do drive them however.

Sorry, my mistake. I just recall your discount on your ST and presumed you worked for Ford, apologies. Sweet car btw.

colm_mcm

My views on Toyota havew little to do with who I work for, more to do with the job I do, and the experience I've had of other makes of car.

The only thing the press seem to be able to throw at Toyota is that they're "dull and uninspiring" to drive.
I don't think I'll lose any sleep at night as a result of the Avensis' lack of lift-off oversteer, mainly because I don't spend my days ragging one around a test track.
I will, however be safe in the knowledge that I'm in the safest car available for the money, have lots of space, generous equipment and will get wherever I need to in comfort.

bazz26

Henry Ford III wrote:

No I don't. I do drive them however.

So you would still have a biased opinion like everyone else about their own car. It is impossible not to.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

colm_mcm wrote:

My views on Toyota havew little to do with who I work for, more to do with the job I do, and the experience I've had of other makes of car.

The only thing the press seem to be able to throw at Toyota is that they're "dull and uninspiring" to drive.
I don't think I'll lose any sleep at night as a result of the Avensis' lack of lift-off oversteer, mainly because I don't spend my days ragging one around a test track.
I will, however be safe in the knowledge that I'm in the safest car available for the money, have lots of space, generous equipment and will get wherever I need to in comfort.

why? who do you work for?

colm_mcm

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

why? who do you work for?

someone who would be generally biassed towards Toyota

maidhc

bazz26 wrote:

So you would still have a biased opinion like everyone else about their own car. It is impossible not to.

I wouldn't agree... it is your car... not your wife or girlfriend!

bazz26

maidhc wrote:

I wouldn't agree... it is your car... not your wife or girlfriend!

Maybe but more often than not some people will totally write off or disregard a car they have probably never sat in not to mind driven.

I think forming an opinion of a car from experience of driving it rather than what some guy wrote in an article in a newspaper or magazine, etc is much more valid.