Carnage On Irish Roads. What Can Be Done?

gimmick

I doubt it is only me who gets quite upset watching the news on a daily basis, to see and hear of more lives being lost needlessly on the roads. Yesterday alone was it 7 deaths. Families throughout the country are in unbelievable horror today, 2 especially who lost 2 kids each.

Now Im not going to preach and say what should be done, but I am certainly going to give an opinion as to what I think could be done, and perhaps it will help. Road deaths will never be wiped out completely, but surely something must be done.

Firstly, anyone who has not applied for the their driving test as of , say, 1st september, should have to do a drivers ed programme similar to that in the US. We are not being thought how to drive as it is, and how reversing around a corner in a housing estate in a test stes one up for the real world I will never know.

Provisional drivers should not be allowed drive on their own under any circumstances.

A 1st provisional license should not be issued to someone unless they actually drive ie many use their driving license as ID when 18, dont drive. They then start driving at 21, and are already on 2nd provisional, where it is ok to drive on your own.

Motor bikes have graded levels at which you can drive. The same should apply for cars. If i were in charge i would make sure that if you do not have a full licence, you CANNOT drive a car ober 1.1cc. Also, if you are under 21, full license or not, you cannot drive a car over 1.1cc. 21-25 not allowed over 1.6cc and must have a full license. 25+ you can drive whatever as long as you are fully licensed. I realsie then not everyone will be able to drive their folks car when they are 18, but sorry, screw them. Too many of these accidents are happening in cars which people cannot handle, powerful engines which a learner cannot handle.

Now i know the non drivers and learner drivers will be up in arms about this, and say thats all well and good for those with full licenses already. Perhaps its unonstitutional, Ill leave that to the legal eagles among us. Fact is, that a line has to be drawn somewhere, revise, and start again. It is for the good of us all. I would even endorse that fully licensed drivers have to do some sort of test on renewal on their licenses every 5-10 years whatever it is.

Thoughts?

HelterSkelter

I agree with you about the driver education and provisional licence, spot on.

However I don't think having a graded system for driving cars is going to help the situation. As far as I can see most young or inexperienced drivers who are involved in accidents are already driving small cars. The insurance cost for an inexperienced or young driver puts high powered cars out of the question for most. There is also another argument that driving a low powered car is actually more dangerous. With a 1L micra it is going to take more time to overtake resulting in you being stuck on the wrong side of the road for a longer time. I drive a 1.6L car now and it is much safer overtaking than in my old 1.1L Punto.

gimmick

HelterSkelter wrote:

With a 1L micra it is going to take more time to overtake resulting in you being stuck on the wrong side of the road for a longer time.

All due respect, but everyone should know that if it isnt safe to overtake, do not overtake. No matter what you are driving.

zuma

Sweet god, cant we copy the US and have Driver Education at school.

A portion of Car Insurance payments should be reserved for the training.

Also more testers by breaking the monopoly which they have no intention of giving away!!!

Ardent

In the case of the one recent crash, the local feeling is that the accident occurred because the crossroads sign was covered over with muck or grass. The family were not from the area and possibly didn't realise they were going through a crossroads until it was too late.

The roads in rural Ireland are a death trap.

my little pony

"Provisional drivers should not be allowed drive on their own under any circumstances."

You can't generalise it like that its unfair, I'm sure when you were a learner driver you were glad of the fact you could drive alone!!!!
Look at all the people that were killed on the road in the past few months, the most were people without L plates so I agree that maybe the government needs to take a look at introducing a system whereby people should have to take a refreshers course/ test every 5 years. Learner drivers are being used as an excuse for the carnage on the roads but its all careless drivers that contribute to it.

gimmick

ARDENT wrote:

The roads in rural Ireland are a death trap.

Tahts a very valid point actually. I live more or less City Centre, but there is one set of tarffic lights near me which are blocked by a pylon, and a few others which are covered COMPLETELY by overhanging hedges!

My Little Pony wrote:

You can't generalise it like that its unfair, I'm sure when you were a learner driver you were glad of the fact you could drive alone!!!!

Thats why I said a line needs to be drawn somewhere, and start again. The point I was trying to make above, reading back perhaps i could have been clearer, is just because you can reverse around a bloody corner in an estate in a test, does not make you ready for real driving ie driving a 60 miles an hour in a dual carriageway, and some moron cutting across you, leaving you with feck all time to do anything/much about it.

stevejazzx

Ardent wrote:

The roads in rural Ireland are a death trap.

I drove the back roads around waterford once at night....:eek:
unbelievable

youthacademy

Ardent wrote:

In the case of the one recent crash, the local feeling is that the accident occurred because the crossroads sign was covered over with muck or grass. The family were not from the area and possibly didn't realise they were going through a crossroads until it was too late.

The roads in rural Ireland are a death trap.

i have to agree with you there ardent, also when your doing your test its in a built up, well signposted etc area. no-one tells you how to negotiate a road with no signposts, bends on the road that work on a "suprise" system, thats after the potholes, large farm machinery takeing up 3/4's of the raod, cattle etc. its ludarcris the state of our rural roads

b3t4

Gimmick, where is it stated that the people who were involved in the recent accidents were learner drivers?

Thanks,
A.

daymobrew

Ardent wrote:

In the case of the one recent crash, the local feeling is that the accident occurred because the crossroads sign was covered over with muck or grass.

Did any of the locals contact the county council/local authority to get it cleaned? The CC/LA will probably not know about such issues, but will often be quite helpful when informed.
Yesterday morning I phoned Dublin City Council about broken glass (from a smashed car window) on the road and footpath. They cleaned it up later in the day.

Alternately someone could give it a clean themselves. Slightly different, but I've gotten the wrench out to re-erect signs in my estate that have fallen off the pole or twisted the wrong way around in the wind.

gimmick

b3t4 wrote:

Gimmick, where is it stated that the people who were involved in the recent accidents were learner drivers?

Thanks,
A.

So rather than being constructive you are picking holes? If you are happy with the current system, well and good. If you actually read my posts above, you will see my points.

HelterSkelter

gimmick wrote:

All due respect, but everyone should know that if it isnt safe to overtake, do not overtake. No matter what you are driving.

That is true. But even when it appears safe to overtake you can never tell what other drivers will do e.g. someone comes out from a side road on the opposite side without checking for traffic. So the longer you are on the wrong side of the road the higher chance something will go wrong.

masterK

2 words "Better Roads"

I'm sick to death listening to the government preaching to us about how it is our driving habits that is solely to blame. Of course this is part of the issue but the biggest factor to me is the disgraceful quality of roads across rural Ireland.

The fact that such a small percentage of the fatalities occur in the major cities highlights this fact.

HelterSkelter

my little pony wrote:

"Provisional drivers should not be allowed drive on their own under any circumstances."

You can't generalise it like that its unfair, I'm sure when you were a learner driver you were glad of the fact you could drive alone!!!!

That law is there for a reason. I think once the driving test backlog is cleared (if ever!) then all unaccompanied provisional drivers should be put off the road. No driving on your own unless you pass the test.

my little pony wrote:

Look at all the people that were killed on the road in the past few months, the most were people without L plates

How do you know that?

magpie

We need better roads, and more of them. Any other 'campaigns' started by the government (e.g. speeding) are fudging the issue.

Hardly anyone gets killed on dual carriageways or motorways regardless of speed. Why? Because you can overtake safely.

Isn't it about time the government started spending on our infrastructure? There should be constant motorway between every major town in Ireland - all N routes should be dual carriageways.

If they improved the roads casualties would drop off enormously.

EDIT/ Just read this

2 words "Better Roads"

I'm sick to death listening to the government preaching to us about how it is our driving habits that is solely to blame. Of course this is part of the issue but the biggest factor to me is the disgraceful quality of roads across rural Ireland.

The fact that such a small percentage of the fatalities occur in the major cities highlights this fact.

Exactly!

monkeyfudge

I remember reading once that a study showed that something like 90% of male drivers aged between 18 and 25 rated themselves as excellent drivers.

I think this sort of delusional perception is one of the major problems.

stevenmu

The problem isn't with the current system, it's the fact that nobody follows it. People stand around screaming and shouting at the government to do 'something' about it, then hop back in their cars and continue driving like idiots. In most cases of crashes, people are already breaking either the current laws or the rules of common sense. The system we have would work perfectly if everybody stuck to it, the problem is they don't, and there's no reason to believe that changing the system is going to make the slightest bit of difference.

Funsterdelux

I agree with the OP, about grades and what-not,
I also think/agree that the Rules of the Road should be taught in Primary School, and then basic driving skills during Sec. School.

Further more, we have to come to accept that Irish roads were never designed for todays automobiles, the werent designed at all, they were design by where the horse wanted to pull the cart, through them there hills!

More people can afford cars at younger ages, when they dont need cars, the only people who should need a vehicle under 21 is people who need it for work.

Lets also just say that there was a time when a car was needed to get from A to B, now we have little upstarts driving just for the sake of it.

I could go on and on, but I'll save yis the hassle.

What we need is a decent oil crisis.

Ardent

daymobrew wrote:

Did any of the locals contact the county council/local authority to get it cleaned? The CC/LA will probably not know about such issues, but will often be quite helpful when informed.
Yesterday morning I phoned Dublin City Council about broken glass (from a smashed car window) on the road and footpath. They cleaned it up later in the day.

I'm not sure of the full details and I don't want to speculate based on second or third hand information.

What I do know is that, where I'm originally from near Athenry, there is a crossroads where you can't see anything coming from your left until you're halfway across the road because the grass is so high in the summer. The county council only come out to cut the grass when endlessly bugged about it.

HelterSkelter

monkeyfudge wrote:

I remember reading once that a study showed that something like 90% of male drivers aged between 18 and 25 rated themselves as excellent drivers.

I think this sort of delusional perception is one of the major problems.

I think if you ask drivers of any age group you will get similar replies. Someone who thinks they are rubbish is a rare species!!

Funsterdelux

Ardent wrote:

I'm not sure of the full details and I don't want to speculate based on second or third hand information.

What I do know is that, where I'm originally from near Athenry, there is a crossroads where you can't see anything coming from your left until you're halfway across the road because the grass is so high in the summer. The county council only come out to cut the grass when endlessly bugged about it.

Thats true in most counties, reaction not proaction

FillSpectre

Can we just establish what the actual problems are first rather than suggesting changes.

First off are more provisional drivers actaully having accidents? If they aren't then they are really the problem

It appears young male driver are the biggest fatalities but how true is this?

What are the times of most accidents?

Any actual information on the subject would be good before saying what we think is the problem.

Personally I can't get over the rules of the road so easily ignore without consequences. I think strict enfocement aof all rules might instill some responsibility on people.

monkeyfudge

Funsterdelux wrote:

I agree with the OP, about grades and what-not,
I also think/agree that the Rules of the Road should be taught in Primary School, and then basic driving skills during Sec. School.

I remember going to the little driving school in Fairview when I was in primary school, it was very good... but they closed it down recently. That's progress for you.

HelterSkelter

Funsterdelux wrote:

More people can afford cars at younger ages, when they dont need cars, the only people who should need a vehicle under 21 is people who need it for work.

Maybe if you live in a city, but what about the country, you need a car to visit your friends, go to the shop, etc etc

Funsterdelux wrote:

Lets also just say that there was a time when a car was needed to get from A to B, now we have little upstarts driving just for the sake of it.

And what's wrong with that? Everyone should have the right to drive once they are trained properly

my little pony

HelterSkelter wrote:

That law is there for a reason. I think once the driving test backlog is cleared (if ever!) then all unaccompanied provisional drivers should be put off the road. No driving on your own unless you pass the test.

Well if they clear the backlog and you are guaranteed a test in 2-3 weeks like other countries then this will work and I can't see why anybody would have a problem with it but its going to take years to clear the current backlog.....

5500

gimmick wrote:

Motor bikes have graded levels at which you can drive. The same should apply for cars. If i were in charge i would make sure that if you do not have a full licence, you CANNOT drive a car ober 1.1cc. Also, if you are under 21, full license or not, you cannot drive a car over 1.1cc. 21-25 not allowed over 1.6cc and must have a full license. 25+ you can drive whatever as long as you are fully licensed. I realsie then not everyone will be able to drive their folks car when they are 18, but sorry, screw them. Too many of these accidents are happening in cars which people cannot handle, powerful engines which a learner cannot handle.

So what about the 25yr old who gets his provisonal licence,and books his test straight away,gets a letter from work and then does the test a month later and passes.He's now free to drive any car he wants but yet has only about 2 months expierence driving on the road.

If the above was the case,we may aswell impose a curfew and higher insurance on everyone outside of dublin as thats were the majority of fatal crashes seem to be happening

themonk

the responsibility is with every driver to be extra carefull!!!!!

thats the message that everyone needs to pick up from the current road safety campaign .... as stated earlier ... just dont overtake ... unless absolutely necessary .... how many time have u been stuck behind a lorry on the nation primary routes ( roads that seemed to be in good condition but are absolutely disgraceful for signage twists and turns ) .... the onus is to sit back even when theres a line of traffic building up behind you and wait until it dead clear to over take .... not to say chance it before the next bend because of that queue tailing back from me .... speed kills

Tom Dunne

Driver education is also a major factor.

Until the morons who risk life and limb in a car are stopped, the carnage will continue. I was driving between Kilcock and Clane the other day - a late teen/early 20 moron decides to overtake several cars in his souped up Micra. He barely missed a Merc turning onto the road 50 metres up. On the way back, another utterly idiotic artic driver overtakes 5, yes 5, cars and vans on the solitary straight stretch. Less than 5 seconds later, another artic comes in the opposite direction around a bend. The carnage could have been horrendous.

Triangle

Weither or not learner Drivers are causing accidents is irrelevent - they have not learnt to drive and should not be driving alone - this is dangerous.

The main problem is the thought process of people - "i'll just overtake one more car before pulling in...." , Sure one drink won't hurt (generally believed to be the older generation now), Etc

The roads are in a dire condition - i.e. Broken lines when you can barely see 100meters ahead.

And proper schooling - i think steps have been made on this though. Previously driving instructors didn't have to have any training.

HelterSkelter

themonk wrote:

...speed kills

One of the soundbite cop outs the Government feeds us and so many people just repeat like parrots without even thinking about it. It should be inappropiate speeds kills...or poor driver training kills...or bad roads kill....