Attention Irish Motorists

Fighting Irish

If you are driving along a road and a car is driving right behind you he is more than likely wanting to pass you so IF ITS SAFE TO DO SO just pull in slightly and let him by


Its the simple things you do that make the world run smoother

junii

Isn't it illegal now to drive on the hard shoulder with these points brought out in April.


As for enforcing........well

bennyx_o

Yes, it is illegal.

Silvera

junii wrote:

Isn't it illegal now to drive on the hard shoulder with these points brought out in April.

Only on a MOTORWAY.

Fighting Irish

junii wrote:

Isn't it illegal now to drive on the hard shoulder with these points brought out in April.


As for enforcing........well

Drive maybe, but pull in slighty and let someone by, doubt it

junii

So not on a national road with a hard shoulder?

Fighting Irish

I don't mean pull all the way into the hard shoulder so none of your car is on the road

Fighting Irish

junii wrote:

So not on a national road with a hard shoulder?

what?

I know some places its impossible to pull in, i mean on main roads wheres theres plenty of space

jd

junii wrote:

Isn't it illegal now to drive on the hard shoulder with these points brought out in April.


As for enforcing........well

You get points for driving in the hard shoulder of a motorway (note the continuous yellow line). Also note from http://www.irishmotoring.ie/cms/uploads/propossed_rules_of_the_road.pdf

The hard shoulder is not an extra traffic lane and [FONT=JDFCAO+TimesNewRoman,BoldItali,Times New Roman]should not normally be used as such by traffic other than cyclists and pedestrians[/FONT]. If a driver wishes to allow a following vehicle to overtake, temporary use may be made of the hard shoulder to pull in if there are no cyclists/pedestrians already using it and provided that there is no junction or entrance in the vicinity.

junii

I know what your saying now fighting irish and I shouldn't think it is as long as you don't go on the hard shoulder.

You probably just mean moving left slightly which makes things safer for everyone.

jd

junii wrote:

I know what your saying now fighting irish and I shouldn't think it is as long as you don't go on the hard shoulder.

You probably just mean moving left slightly which makes things safer for everyone.

You can go on the hard shoulder temporarily (see above)

junii

jd wrote:

You can go on the hard shoulder temporarily (see above)

Apologies. I misread your post.

Fighting Irish

I rarely pass out people cos i drive a punto and going at 80-100km/h and the punto is too slow at them speeds, but i do notice some people driving and they take no notice of the drivers behind them

junii

Fighting Irish wrote:

I rarely pass out people cos i drive a punto and going at 80-100km/h and the punto is too slow at them speeds, but i do notice some people driving and they take no notice of the drivers behind them

Some people think they own the ****ing road esp. BMW and MERC drivers. Whats up their fckin holes?

Michael O leary is the only one who should be allowed do this. He probably owns at least half the roads!

bbbbb

Driving (even partly) on the hard shoulder is a little dangerous, you need to know:
- is the car behind actually going to over take, or is he just driving too close?
- how many other cars behind are there also wanting to over take?
- how long will all this take?
In the time/distance that this will take, can I see:
- what's the surface/quality of the road like? (some hard shoulders are v.bad & can change quickly)
- are there any side roads/entrances that some one might pop out of?
- what's the exit strategy, margin of error if it starts to wrong? (i.e. not like I expected).

Effectively it's everything overtaking is, except instead for the person being overtaken!!!

junii

bbbbb wrote:

Driving (even partly) on the hard shoulder is a little dangerous, you need to know:
- is the car behind actually going to over take, or is he just driving too close?
- how many other cars behind are there also wanting to over take?
- how long will all this take?
In the time/distance that this will take, can I see:
- what's the surface/quality of the road like? (some hard shoulders are v.bad & can change quickly)
- are there any side roads/entrances that some one might pop out of?
- what's the exit strategy, margin of error if it starts to wrong? (i.e. not like I expected).

Effectively it's everything overtaking is, except instead for the person being overtaken!!!

Thats a good point but I still stand to what I said above about BMW and MERC drivers because there ignorant in general.

kensutz

If I see someone tearing up the road behind me and I'm at the limit I refuse to let him pass me even if he's up the arse of the car. Stick to the limits and be sensible.

bbbbb

junii wrote:

Thats a good point but I still stand to what I said above about BMW and MERC drivers because there ignorant in general.

I think this applies...

junii

I should have realised. I will try and be more mindful in the future!

jd

kensutz wrote:

If I see someone tearing up the road behind me and I'm at the limit I refuse to let him pass me even if he's up the arse of the car. Stick to the limits and be sensible.

It is not your job to enforce the law. If someone wants to get by me,I'll try and make it easy for him, even if my speedo says I'm at the limit.(which is another thing-speedos can overstate your speed by up to 15%, so you can't assume that someone who wants to overtake you is exceeding the limit)
jd

Saruman

kensutz wrote:

If I see someone tearing up the road behind me and I'm at the limit I refuse to let him pass me even if he's up the arse of the car. Stick to the limits and be sensible.

You realise that this stupid attitude is going to cause an accident right?
Does not matter that you are at the speed limit and they are obviously breaking it!! Apart from the fact its NOT UP TO YOU to deicide that.. you are going to force the car behind you to take a dangerous risk if they are so desperate to get by!!

Would you still think yourself all high and mighty if they overtake you and plough into an oncoming car killing a child??? Had you just moved out of the way for a few seconds....

kensutz

Sorry I meant on normal roads around the city.

GreeBo

Saruman wrote:

Would you still think yourself all high and mighty if they overtake you and plough into an oncoming car killing a child??? Had you just moved out of the way for a few seconds....

Would you be high and mighty if I pull over and get a blow out due to crap being on the hard shoulder and my car flips and my entire family die?

People who feel the need to force others to let them past are idiots.
If I am driving on or at the speed limit then YOU are the one who is driving dangerously.

I cannot believe that there are people arguing for this attitude.

leeroybrown

GreeBo wrote:

Would you be high and mighty if I pull over and get a blow out due to crap being on the hard shoulder and my car flips and my entire family die?

People who feel the need to force others to let them past are idiots.
If I am driving on or at the speed limit then YOU are the one who is driving dangerously.

I cannot believe that there are people arguing for this attitude.

I think the point that people are making is that where a driver feels it is safe to do so they should allow another vechicle that wishes to overtake them to do so.

I'm not condoning agressive drivers who sit too close to another cars bumper waiting to overtake but I do think it can be counterproductive to hold them up unnecessarily.

saobh_ie

If you can't over take safely without the car infront pulling in you shouldn't be over taking.

Fey!

junii wrote:

Thats a good point but I still stand to what I said above about BMW and MERC drivers because there ignorant in general.

And your particular gripe is? I drive a BMW, but I make way to people trying to overtake me, I stop to let people out of junctions, I watch out for unlit cyclists at night, and, believe it or not, I stop for people broken down at the side of the road!

Get over yourself and stop tarring everyone with the same brush. Otherwise, the rest of us may have to lump everyone who generalises drivers of a particular brand into a group of "Particularly Ignorant People".

OP - sorry for the hijack, but had to get that off my chest. I think you make a good point. Funnily enough, I find that when driving through the midlands, more people tend to make space than driving in the west. Local attitudes, perhaps?

Anan1

saobh_ie wrote:

If you can't over take safely without the car infront pulling in you shouldn't be over taking.

What absolute twaddle.

prospect

saobh_ie wrote:

If you can't over take safely without the car infront pulling in you shouldn't be over taking.

What a load of crap.

Seth Brundle

junii wrote:

Some people think they own the ****ing road esp. BMW and MERC drivers. Whats up their fckin holes?

Michael O leary is the only one who should be allowed do this. He probably owns at least half the roads!

I won't acknowledge the ignorance of the BMW/Merc comment, but what is the O'Leary comment about as I really don't understand it

GreeBo

Anan1 wrote:

What absolute twaddle.

prospect wrote:

What a load of crap.

Please explain.

Anan1

saobh_ie wrote:

If you can't over take safely without the car infront pulling in you shouldn't be over taking.

GreeBo wrote:

Please explain.

If the car in front can safely pull in, thus making it safe for you to overtake, then why shouldn't you be overtaking?

GreeBo

Anan1 wrote:

If the car in front can safely pull in, thus making it safe for you to overtake, then why shouldn't you be overtaking?

Why on earth should anyone have to pull in?
What defines "safely pull in"?
Using this logic you would have slower cars pulling in and out of the hard shoulder while Jimmy Mc speed limit+10 overtakes...
Crazy.
Its not a race...there is no blue flag.

Saruman

Anan1 wrote:

If the car in front can safely pull in, thus making it safe for you to overtake, then why shouldn't you be overtaking?

Not to mention the fact that its PERFECTLY LEGAL to move in to the hard shoulder to let someone pass.

Oh and GreeBo!! Im assuming you are going by what we are talking about which is someone driving at 80kph on a regional road and someone wanting to overtake... If you move in to the hard shoulder and get a blowout.. there is no possible way you can flip your car over unless you yourself panic and turn the wheel.. its not fast enough! And as another said we are talking about if it is safe to do so. Again i point out its perfectly legal to pull in...

Im going to start another thread about speed limits.. im curious about something.

AlanD

This is the most ridiculous post I've seen in the long time. It's trying to justify the insanely dangerous practice of overtaking while there's still cars coming. I'm amazed at how many people drive towards me half on my side half on their side squeezing by a car. They're the muppetts who criticise people for not pulling over to let them pass.

You can only overtake if it's safe to do so and and if it's safe to do so, it means there's no cars coming towards you and you can safely cross in to the other half of the road to pass the car in front of you.

Noone should ever feel obliged to pull in however slightly if they are driving at the legal limit (or even if not). The muppett expecting this behind could one day misjudge his space and cause an accident. Wait a few minutes until you've a clear road and then pass safely.

:mad:

prospect

GreeBo wrote:

Why on earth should anyone have to pull in?
What defines "safely pull in"?
Using this logic you would have slower cars pulling in and out of the hard shoulder while Jimmy Mc speed limit+10 overtakes...
Crazy.
Its not a race...there is no blue flag.

Exactly, what defines anything? As your example shows. But there are an infinite amount of other possible occurances, and unfortunatly not all of them will back up your argument.

To say something like "if you can't over take safely without the car infront pulling in you shouldn't be over taking" is a massive and sweeping generalisation and therfore a load of crap. There are so many individual and unique occurances on our roads that statements like that are just meaningless jibberish. There are certain times when it is true, but there are also certain times where it is not.

prospect

AlanD wrote:

The muppett expecting this behind could one day misjudge his space and cause an accident.

Or the slower muppet "could" show some common courtesy and pull in and allow the faster moving traffic pass them safely!

There are two sides to every coin.

GreeBo

prospect wrote:

Or the slower muppet "could" show some common courtesy and pull in and allow the faster moving traffic pass them safely!

There are two sides to every coin.

So he is a muppet because he is not moving at the same speed as everyone else?
You can only overtake safely if you can overtake the car in front without them pulling in.
If the car in front needs to pull in then its not safe, you are just passing them out.
Thats why some parts of roads have solid white lines...because its not safe to overtake.

Do you pass out cars that pull in when there is a solid white line?

What if I pull into the hard shoulder and meet an obstacle there, do you mind if I rejoin tha main road?
What if I pull out and that forces you into an on-coming car?
But hey! I thought it was safe because I pulled in!?

Saruman

AlanD wrote:

This is the most ridiculous post I've seen in the long time. It's trying to justify the insanely dangerous practice of overtaking while there's still cars coming.

Actually your post is the ridiculous one.. read the damn thread... who is condoning overtaking with oncoming cars?????
The thread is about people moving over to the left to let faster cars past... so they can see whats coming.. if there is a car in the opposite direction.. its not safe to get past obviously so should never be done...
Maybe i missed a post that did condone this.. if so.. im sorry but its not what i thought we were talking about. I thoght we were talking about a slower car moving into hard shoulder for a second to left the faster car past safely so they do not resort to dangerous overtaking.

GreeBo

Saruman wrote:

people moving over to the left to let faster cars past... so they can see whats coming.. if there is a car in the opposite direction..

Perhaps if you were not driving inside my boot you could see what was happening ahead?

AlanD

prospect wrote:

Or the slower muppet "could" show some common courtesy and pull in and allow the faster moving traffic pass them safely!

There are two sides to every coin.

I agree, there are definitely times a dawdling driver could pull in a bit. But if there's still cars coming the other way, that little bit of space is still not safe enough.

Now perhaps I'm imagining different scenarios to you guys, but any time I think of someone pulling in it's cos there's cars coming and the lad behind is dying to get past. What if you misjudge the gap or what if the guy coming towards you decides it's time to play with the radio or look for his bag of crisps and drifts over a little bit. By the passer squeezing in to these gaps after a car has pulled in, the passer has almost no room to avoid these things. You can't trust the other driver, you can only trust yourself.

If someone can explain to me though how a situation like I've explained above is safe, please do so and I might be swayed.

Of course there are situations where it could be safe and there's no cars coming, but then you'd hardly need the car in front to pull in, would you?

Perhaps, describe a scenario where someone pulls in and it's safe to pass.

Too add to this, it's definitely an aggressive action if someone hogs the white line to stop you passing, but the way i see it, if there's no cars coming, I can still pass. I don't need him and would never expect the car in front to pull in for me.

prospect

GreeBo wrote:

So he is a muppet because he is not moving at the same speed as everyone else?

No, he/she is a muppet for deliberatly not makeing a preventative manouver (SP)

GreeBo wrote:

You can only overtake safely if you can overtake the car in front.
If the car in front needs to pull in then its not safe.

You can over take safely when there is no oncoming cars or obstructions, you can overtake even SAFER when the car ahead makes it so by moving to one side.

GreeBo wrote:

Thats why some parts of roads have solid white lines...because its not safe to overtake.

I dont recall mentioning overtaking where there is a solid white line?

GreeBo wrote:

Do you pass out cars that pull in when there is a solid white line?

If the car ahead moves over far enough that I can pass without crossing the solid white line, then I will overtake. As the rules of the road say it is illegal to cross the white line, they do not say it is illegal to overtake.

From the ROTR (http://www.lireland.com/ go to ROTR/traffic signs & roadway markings/roadway markings)
"• Single or double continuous white lines along the centre of the road; all traffic must keep to the left of the line (except in an emergency or for access)."

GreeBo

AlanD wrote:

the way i see it, if there's no cars coming, I can still pass. I don't need him and would never expect the car in front to pull in for me.

Exactly...the only time you need someone to pull in is when you cannot pass safely otherwise...so then dont fricken pass!

AlanD

Saruman wrote:

Actually your post is the ridiculous one.. read the damn thread... who is condoning overtaking with oncoming cars?????
The thread is about people moving over to the left to let faster cars past... so they can see whats coming.. if there is a car in the opposite direction.. its not safe to get past obviously so should never be done...
Maybe i missed a post that did condone this.. if so.. im sorry but its not what i thought we were talking about. I thoght we were talking about a slower car moving into hard shoulder for a second to left the faster car past safely so they do not resort to dangerous overtaking.

apologies if I added a new thread to the discussion, I guess we all have certain images in our head, and that image in mine is related to this thread IMO.

Tell me, in the scenario that you have in your head. What else is going on the road that requires you to want the car in front to pull in to the hard shoulder so you don't have to resort to dangerous driving? If the person did not pull in, what part of your overtaking manouvere would be dangerous? Would there be a car coming?

And as a poster just said, you shouldn't need someone to pull in to see whats on the road ahead.

GreeBo

prospect wrote:

If the car ahead moves over far enough that I can pass without crossing the solid white line, then I will overtake. As the rules of the road say it is illegal to cross the white line, they do not say it is illegal to overtake.

ok well if you are ever behind me I shall make sure to drive up a tree so that you can overtake and not cross the line...

I cannot believe that I am having this argument with someone.

Seth Brundle

prospect wrote:

If the car ahead moves over far enough that I can pass without crossing the solid white line, then I will overtake. As the rules of the road say it is illegal to cross the white line, they do not say it is illegal to overtake.

From the ROTR (http://www.lireland.com/ go to ROTR/traffic signs & roadway markings/roadway markings)
"• Single or double continuous white lines along the centre of the road; all traffic must keep to the left of the line (except in an emergency or for access)."

The ROTR also state that they are an interpretation of the law. Make sure that it is legal to do this before its used as a defence.

GreeBo

prospect wrote:

As the rules of the road say it is illegal to cross the white line, they do not say it is illegal to overtake.

If there is a road sign that indicates no overtaking for the next x km, will you still overtake if the guy in front pulls in?

Vegeta

you'd fail your test for pulling in to let someone overtake you.

The guideline is maintain speed and position.

If someone wants to overtake let them do so at the next safe opportunity.

Saruman

Why do trucks usually pull in then? The answer is they are long so it requires a lot more road to get past them... if they move in its a LOT safer to get past as not only do you not need to go completely on the other side of the road.... if someone comes flying out of no where in the other direction you are not definatly going to get caught out... Same goes for a car.. its safer if they move out of the way than to FORCE them to drive on the wrong side of the road... I have seen cars ahead of me before and they want to over take some one and refuse to let them pass.. Now msotly they are going BELOW the speed limit.. like 65 on a 100kph road.. so they force them to overtake completly and then they speed up making it harder for the car to overtake... and well yuo get the idea...

Im not condinging speeding.. im just saying like the first poster that its is safer if a slower car just moves in and lets a faster car past safely without forcing someone to be even more stupid than riding up their arse and speeding...

AlanD

prospect wrote:

You can over take safely when there is no oncoming cars or obstructions, you can overtake even SAFER when the car ahead makes it so by moving to one side.

I guess I don't understand how it could be any more safer if someone pulled in a little or not. If the road ahead is clear and it's safe to pass, you can still easily drive around the car in front.

So perhaps some of us are missing your point. When you want to pass and you want the car in front to pull in, is there a car coming towards you and if the car didn't pull in, you couldn't possibly pass safely?

Sidepoint not specifically directed to you prospect: if the road in question here has a hard shoulder, what part of the law do you think will get you off if a Garda pulls you in for driving on the hard shoulder and gives you points?

maidhc

GreeBo wrote:

Why on earth should anyone have to pull in?
What defines "safely pull in"?
Using this logic you would have slower cars pulling in and out of the hard shoulder while Jimmy Mc speed limit+10 overtakes...
Crazy.
Its not a race...there is no blue flag.

What about agricultural machinery... or loaded trucks going up a hill. Would you be happy to stay behind such a vehicle for for 30 miles?

The same is true of slow drivers. There is nothing more annoying than somone who does 35-40mph on a road where you can't overtake, but where they could easily pull into the hard shoulder, and let those with more pressing issues get about their business. Most of the time it is perfectly safe to do this.

prospect

GreeBo wrote:

ok well if you are ever behind me I shall make sure to drive up a tree so that you can overtake and not cross the line...

I cannot believe that I am having this argument with someone.

Jeepers, you are fond of your extreems.
If there is not adequate space, good visability and a decent road surface, then I would not expect anyone to move to one side.

I dont know how many times I have been on a long stretch of road and a very slow vehicle will not move into an adequate hard shoulder and alow a line of faster moving vehicles pass them, safely.

It is dangerous, it is bad manners and it is agressive.

This is also from the ROTR, it is in realtion to tractors, but I am sure it can be applied to all slow moving vehicles:

"ON THE ROAD
When a tractor is being used in a public place, however infrequently, it is subject to the normal laws governing road traffic.
It is important to remember that most tractors are, of their nature, slow- moving vehicles. It is, therefore, important that the general rule to keep left be strictly observed so as not to hold up faster traffic."