Ban the Haka, I've bloody had enough...

toomevara

..so ...tri-nations saturday morning...mouth watering tie AB's V Wallabies but once again the AB's will be handed a massive psycological advantage, before a ball is kicked by performing the preposterous Haka...

What started out as an amusing diversion in the days of amateurism has mutated into a ridiculously unfair advantage, verging on gamesmanship, to the AB's whose rugby cup,lets face it, already runneth over......and what about the Kapo O Pango 'variant' with the idiotic throat slashing gesture. what was once a challenge to battle has now become a thinly veiled thuggish threat...get rid of it I say...or do what the French used to do,(particularly Blanco) ignore it....

daveirl

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RuggieBear

daveirl wrote:

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ditto

Ruu_Old

I'm not really too bothered with the haka. I saw this somewhere on telly. Why dont the Irish players do the Riverdance before the start of the game? That would raise a few hairs on the back their necks (and a few eyebrows).

toomevara

Ruu wrote:

I'm not really too bothered with the haka. I saw this somewhere on telly. Why dont the Irish players do the Riverdance before the start of the game? That would raise a few hairs on the back their necks (and a few eyebrows).

Please Ruu!!! I'm traumatised by the mental image you've just foisted on me i.e. the Irish team doing the "diddly aye". Interestingly though you've hit on another bugbear o' mine as i'm considering a campaign to excise Riverdance from the Irish cultural collective memory...apalling sh**te....oirishry and plastic-paddery of the first water...urghhh....

Sangre

I'd just tell the players to completely ignore it and continue stretches.

toomevara

Sangre wrote:

I'd just tell the players to completely ignore it and continue stretches.

Hear, hear, but then you get all the rugby leprechauns and their fellow travellers up in arms bleating on about 'lack of respect' and other such idiotic nonsense.

daveirl

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Chucky the tree

first NZ only win matches because they cheat at the breakdown and the ref ignores the calls?


Now its down to the haka? Classic.

I vote this forum be turned into a "We hate all blacks" forum. More posts about that then irish rugby.

toomevara

daveirl wrote:

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See what I mean, arghhhhh!!! Not allowed to do it, outrageous, who decides this drivel...and you're right daveirl, the AB's did follow a french team who were ignoring them down to the in goal area once upon a time. And what about all the nonsense prior to BOD's (wicked and deliberate, dont care what anyone says)spearing, they took umbrage at the fact that he had the cheek to kneel down and not take 'em seriously...I mean its through the looking glass stuff.....madness

toomevara

Chucky the tree wrote:

first NZ only win matches because they cheat at the breakdown and the ref ignores the calls?


Now its down to the haka? Classic.

I vote this forum be turned into a "We hate all blacks" forum. More posts about that then irish rugby.

Nonsense I said or inferred nothing of the sort. The all blacks are a sensational rugby team drawn from a brilliant rugby culture. I marvel at their skills and commitment and I love watching them play. I think however that the haka is a preposterous nonsense and that it hands the all blacks a massive psychological advantage before every game....level the playing field, its hard enough to beat the buggers as it is...

Chucky the tree

If professional rugby players are scared of a bunch of mean doing a dance before a match they should be sitting at a desk doing a 9-5 job.

daveirl

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toomevara

Chucky the tree wrote:

If professional rugby players are scared of a bunch of mean doing a dance before a match they should be sitting at a desk doing a 9-5 job.

Have you actually read the previous posts at all? Most professional rugby players find the haka an immense distraction and disruption, fear...hardly. My point revolves around the unfair advantage the AB's get from performing it.

Why, if we use the logic of your own post, do the All Blacks...the most professional of all rugby players, need to use a "dance" as you call it, to gee themselves up. QED

Nukem

daveirl wrote:

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Go with that too

mikedragon32

If they have to do it at all, why not before the anthems? At least then they're standing around for the anthems like the other team and the psychological impact of it would have been dissipated by the signing.

Personally I like the Welsh response to the Haka: A tenor walks from between the goalposts to the halfway line with a Welsh flag, while singing "Bread of Heaven". Another Welsh flag is unfurled from the roof behind that goal at the same time. I was in Millenium Stadium for that in Nov. '05. Makes your hairs stand on end!

Peter B

Sangre wrote:

I'd just tell the players to completely ignore it and continue stretches.

Yea I would agree 100%.

Why do we have to watch them? Don't know why countries just ignore them and do warm-ups.

The all blacks doing the Haka doesn't bother me, what bothers me is the other team standing arm in arms watching.

daveirl

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Peter B

daveirl wrote:

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Yea, read your post but I would disagree that there any rules, certainly none imposed by the IRB. If there are rules, they are imposed by countries on themselves.

I am very surprised that countries like Japan or Romania, when playing the All Blacks, dont just say "Bo11ox to your little dance, we're just gonna warm up".

joe90

Hi all been reading the rugby boards.ie for some time now.I am from New Zealand and have been living in Ireland for the past 10 years.Lately there seem to be alot of bitching about the all blacks there cheating style off the play,haka etc.. The haka is a big part off NZ rugby and any kiwis will tell you what it means to the team and country,also many other NZ teams use hakas before sports events.Most Irish people i know enjoy seeing the haka and say it adds a good edge to the start off games.As with the cheating that the all blacks get away with it is all about playing the ref seeing what he is going to ping you for and what not.Having played senior rugby in ireland for a good few years most teams in the first ten minutes play the ref to see what way he is going to ref the game, break downs, rucks etc..Than we know what we can get away with,all teams do it. Its not cheating as such. If you dont than you will be at a disadvantage.The AB doe do it more than most teams and if they are why dont other teams do it ? Just my 2 cents worth

cheers

CJhaughey

What about the Tongan version of the Haka? and the Samoan version? the Fijian's also have a variant are you going to complain about that too?or is it simply that Ireland has beaten those teams and doesn't need an excuse?
Come on! The Haka and its variants are a part of the Pacific Island culture and is are a colourful part of the game of Rugby.
Grow up and chill out.

toomevara

joe90 wrote:

Hi all been reading the rugby boards.ie for some time now.I am from New Zealand and have been living in Ireland for the past 10 years.Lately there seem to be alot of bitching about the all blacks there cheating style off the play,haka etc.. The haka is a big part off NZ rugby

Interesting post, good to get the viewpoint of a Kiwi...A couple of questions I have re: the haka, when did it go from being something that wasn't taken very seriously by the players to its current totemic status and why? And what's your take on the kapo o pango with the throat slashing gesture? And do you think that its become hugely over exposed and cynically manipulated by the marketers...and what do the non-maori in the squad think of having to learn and perform it?

Incidentally, I never bitch about the AB's highly 'professional' style of play, you pays your money you take your choice with refs and laws in the modern game...Indeed i think the Irish team and management could adopt a more streetwise approach in this respect, but I do think a debate (not a bitching session) about the haka is entirely valid....

Chucky the tree

toomevara wrote:

Have you actually read the previous posts at all? Most professional rugby players find the haka an immense distraction and disruption, fear...hardly. My point revolves around the unfair advantage the AB's get from performing it.

Why, if we use the logic of your own post, do the All Blacks...the most professional of all rugby players, need to use a "dance" as you call it, to gee themselves up. QED

A distraction and disruption? How long does it take? 2 minutes or something? I have yet to hear a professional rugby player come out and complain about the haka being a distraction and disruption. any links?


They dont need it to gee themselves up. Its part of their history etc. I am sure if it was scraped they would still be able to gee themselves up.

Its an annoying part of the game that will stay because of tradition, just like the national athenms.

Jilm

Chucky the tree wrote:

Its an annoying part of the game that will stay because of tradition, just like the national athenms.

So are you saying you'd like to see it dropped?

toomevara

Chucky the tree wrote:

They dont need it to gee themselves up. Its part of their history etc. I am sure if it was scraped they would still be able to gee themselves up.

Its an annoying part of the game that will stay because of tradition, just like the national athenms.

So you're saying then that they (the AB's) don't need it and its annoying...so can I infer then that you think its superfluous and should be removed from the game?

Crash

I have no problem with the Haka - I do have a problem with the restrictions placed on players as to the whole respect thing. Continuing stretching should be fine - and tbh I think (i think it was McBride who led it) the advancing across the game line to a foot or two away from the all blacks, arm in arm, was a perfect response as well. I don't think it should have respected status in the way it does - perform it as they want before the match, but not to the loss of the other team (in terms of warming up and then having to stand around for two minutes etc.)

Paddy Irishman

Does anyone remember the All Blacks performing the Haka against England some years ago. On this occasion they advanced to within an inch of their opponents. I think it was Rowentree of England who was breaking his backside laughing as one of the All Blacks performed the Haka literally down his throat. It looked like a genuine reaction i.e not a tactic to deliberately upset New Zealand otherwise every English player would have been in hysterics. I think of it everytime I see the Haka performed.:)

Fence

I like watching the haka. And listening to the anthems. It's all part of the occasion.

Although if it is part of the rules for the opposing team to have to stand and face it doing nothing, well, that seems a bit baised in favour of the team performing the haka.

Liam90

CJhaughey wrote:

What about the Tongan version of the Haka? and the Samoan version? the Fijian's also have a variant are you going to complain about that too?or is it simply that Ireland has beaten those teams and doesn't need an excuse?
Come on! The Haka and its variants are a part of the Pacific Island culture and is are a colourful part of the game of Rugby.
Grow up and chill out.

thank you! someone who isn't a retard posts in the thread. I am sitting here reading this laughing at the excuse's you guys are coming up with, to be honest you all need to get out of the house more and get a life, the haka just isn't NZ culture its Pacific Island culture, the disrespect you guys are showing is honestly making me sick. Are you all growen men? because if you are this just makes the thread a joke. Im sixteen and i know how to respect something, grow up you underdeveloped retards!

toomevara

Liam90 wrote:

thank you! someone who isn't a retard posts in the thread. I am sitting here reading this laughing at the excuse's you guys are coming up with, to be honest you all need to get out of the house more and get a life, the haka just isn't NZ culture its Pacific Island culture, the disrespect you guys are showing is honestly making me sick. Are you all growen men? because if you are this just makes the thread a joke. Im sixteen and i know how to respect something, grow up you underdeveloped retards!

Ho ho hilarious....feckballery of the first rank...I love it....more posts please.....nothing like a low tone to enliven a debate!

Liam90

this ain't a debate this is a joke!

toomevara

Liam90 wrote:

this ain't a debate this is a joke!

Of course you're right...all a bit tongue in cheek, glad you just copped it! Re-engage the sense of humour thrusters mate and turn down the sensitivity device....:)

zAbbo

Why put the mic's at centre facing the haka?

It's a becoming a gimic now, and was very underwhelming redition of it this morning.

Liam90

zabbo wrote:

Why put the mic's at centre facing the haka?

_________so the crowd can hear them_________

Liam90

toomevara wrote:

Of course you're right...all a bit tongue in cheek, glad you just copped it! Re-engage the sense of humour thrusters mate and turn down the sensitivity device....:)

oh man your fuking hilarious

toomevara

Liam90 wrote:

oh man your fuking hilarious

Why thank you young man, very gracious of you to say so, nothing like a little compliment and that was nothing like.....ah well you know the rest...:D

RuggieBear

Liam90 wrote:

thank you! someone who isn't a retard posts in the thread. I am sitting here reading this laughing at the excuse's you guys are coming up with, to be honest you all need to get out of the house more and get a life, the haka just isn't NZ culture its Pacific Island culture, the disrespect you guys are showing is honestly making me sick. Are you all growen men? because if you are this just makes the thread a joke. Im sixteen and i know how to respect something, grow up you underdeveloped retards!

banned for personal abuse

pm me in a week when you've grown up.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

RuggieBear

he'll reply in a week.

hopefully, after he has calmed down and can argue coherantly and maturely

toomevara

daveirl wrote:

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Absolutely, this is the question that fascinates me...and one I posed to the kiwi chap who posted earlier in the thread..I really want to know what turned the haka from a take-it-or-leave-it bit of pre match daftness into an item of almost religious reverence, which incites the kind of ire exhibited by our new young friend Liam90 earlier in the thread, when its questioned in any way.

esskay

i am in NZ at the moment and there have been two stories about the haka in the news in the last week. Firstly, Fiat have an ad with a group of ladies doing the haka promoting some new car. Apparently Fiat consulted someone here and were told it would cause cultural offense to have women doing the haka but went ahead anyway. They were not too impressed here to say the least. Secondly, the ozzies have released an ad for the rugby where they added handbags to the NZ team doing the haka, tis funny as hell. That they weren't too annoyed at. just thought you'd want to know.

Mad Mike

OK copied directly from a post on the P45 forums but so good it is worth plagiarising:

SYDNEY (Reuters) - Australia has upset near-neighbour New Zealand with television advertisements depicting some of its rugged rugby players carrying women's handbags.

Seven Network television has been running the handbag ads, an irreverent reference to one of the most embarrassing moments in New Zealand sport, to promote Saturday's first Tri-Nations test between the arch-rivals.

They show All Blacks players, including former captain Tana Umaga, performing the haka, a traditional indigenous Maori war dance performed by New Zealand teams before every test match.

But the television station has placed large, digitally enhanced handbags over their shoulders.

In a bizarre off-field incident in May, Umaga broke up a fight between team mate Chris Masoe and an unidentified man in a nightclub by hitting the burly Masoe over the head with a woman's handbag he picked up off a table.

The incident reduced a tired and emotional Masoe, who weighs in at a hefty 106 kg (233 lb), to tears.

The offending handbag later attracted NZ$22,750 ($13,650) in an online auction and made New Zealand players the butt of many cross-Tasman jokes.

But New Zealand rugby officials have complained about the ad.

"It's insensitive, I think, to Maori and disrespectful of the All Blacks," New Zealand assistant coach Wayne Smith said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL9ThdmZkFs&search=handbag

Jilm

toomevara wrote:

Absolutely, this is the question that fascinates me...and one I posed to the kiwi chap who posted earlier in the thread..I really want to know what turned the haka from a take-it-or-leave-it bit of pre match daftness into an item of almost religious reverence, which incites the kind of ire exhibited by our new young friend Liam90 earlier in the thread, when its questioned in any way.

The haka has become ingrained in NZ society over recent times ...it's now performed before school rugby games (often whole classes of students involved) by Maori and non-Maori. It's not limited solely to rugby union either, at the last commonwealth games even kiwi swimmers were getting in on the act ...I'm sure some people would do it before business board meetings in NZ, given half a chance.

New Zealand is a young country as well, which has been gradually cutting the ties between itself and Great Britain culturally as well as politically over the last several decades, so the haka is a cultural phenomenon that has filled the gap so to speak (my own theory). So a lot of kiwis can't comprehend how non-kiwis don't love the haka - or at least respect it - as much as they do, even if it's being performed to the perceived detriment of the opposition.

I'd happily see Ireland's presidental meet-and-greet and two anthems dropped if the ABs quietly dropped the haka (fat chance!).

sheepshagger

I'm also a kiwi whose been living Ireland (for some time now), its interesting reading some of the posts on here, I'm not sure as to why people are having issues with the Haka, its been done for years but its only in the last few (it seems) that some have said they have a problem with it

Go to any test match and the amount of camera flashes when its being done will show you that its still very popular to most rugby fans :cool:

Not sure if you've seen this but its a site that has a bit of guff on the Haka and its history (if anyones interested). . .

http://www.allblacks.com/index.cfm?layout=haka

toomevara

Right its quite clear we're banging our collective heads against a brick wall here. In the interests of levelling the playing field and in the great spirit of if you cant beat 'em join 'em, I'm proposing that we ban all national anthems and such frippery before a match and instead all international teams are required to create and perform their own haka....OK, Kiwis who are the go to guys? Should we give Tana a ring and get him to give us a hand creating an Irish haka.....??? least he could do really....

Any suggestions on the movements/format? What should the signature move be? The all blacks have the belligerent throat slasher, what should we do? The intimidating and much feared 'pint drinking' gesture..oh yes Kiwis prepare to feel fear...real fear....

We could also have a dance-off competition in parallel with the 6N, to see who's got the best moves....

prophetnz

River dance!!!!

Jilm

How about something like this Scottish response to the haka?

toomevara

yes indeedy,that's certainly one way of doing it!! Is showing your collective manhood before a match acceptable under IRB law? I s'pose like the kiwis re: the haka, the Scots could just as legitimately claim that showing off your William Wallace at a rugby match is part of their national culture...

Christ knows I've seen more sphincter cringingly awful penis revelations at Scottish internationals that your average gay pride march....honestly this whole thread is sinking into the realms of the surreal......

Sangre

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DXYcZpEM4U

Now thats just cool.

toomevara

Have to say that does make the hair stand up on the back of your neck! Best response to the haka I've ever seen. Reckon we should get the Tongans to show us that one....

prophetnz

from the recent bledisloe game...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBFHXl7Wevw&search=bledisloe%202006