Guards from Dublin

magpie

I know that this rare beast does exist, having once been amazed to hear a copper with a Dublin accent, but are there any stats on the number of Dubliners serving in the Gardai?

From the Garda website of the 15 top brass only 2 are from Dublin, and one of these is the Financial Officer.

So what is it? Lack of recruits from Dublin? Internal Prejudice?

As the Garda website says:
The Dublin Metropolitan Region is made up primarily of the City and the County of Dublin, though it includes small portions of neighbouring County Kildare to the west and County Wicklow to the South.

It occupies about 950 square kilometres and has a population of over 1 million people.

The city of Dublin was originally policed by the Dublin Metropolitan Police, a force founded in 1836. It operated as an independent body even after the foundation of the State in 1922, before being incorporated into the Garda Síochána in 1925.

So why do we have so few Dubliners involved? Is it time to bring back the DMP? The Met in London is predominantly staffed by Londoners who know their way around the city, so should we not have the same thing in Dublin to escape from the bumbling 'plod' image that many country guards have among city dwellers?

FillSpectre

There used to be a rule about lviving a set distance from where you were brought up. The idea being it would mean less "old friends" been helped out. This what I heard so it might not be true.

There is certainly an increase in Dublin Guards I was told this was becasue the rule was removed.

I have always questioned the logic of putting some country boy into the heart of an troubled urban environment. Not being anti-culchie just have full memory of what college first years are like.

Dragan

FillSpectre wrote:

I have always questioned the logic of putting some country boy into the heart of an troubled urban environment. Not being anti-culchie just have full memory of what college first years are like.

Excellent point actually....

When you look at the city, and how long it can take to learn all the routes to different places and just get to know the people it does makes sense to have the local boys going back to where they are from.

On the other hand, I can see the point of keeping them clear of old haunts and old friends ( and even old enemies!!! )

Tough call either way.

HelterSkelter

Well I know two Dubs who are Guards.

Dragan

HelterSkelter wrote:

Well I know two Dubs who are Guards.

Excellent, but it doesn't exactly prove or dis prove the point!

Maybe you could check with them about the "working away from home" issue for us?

rcs

Yeah, there is a rule that you can't be stationed withing something like 50km of where you live.

magpie

Its actually an astonishing admission that they believe that Guards would do their mates favours if they worked too close to home. Don't they have a code of conduct?

Also, this really makes community policing a non-reality.

Wishbone Ash

rcs wrote:

Yeah, there is a rule that you can't be stationed withing something like 50km of where you live.

I don't think that is enforced anymore. I know 7 Gardaí from Dublin and they are all stationed in Dublin.

rcs

magpie wrote:

Its actually an astonishing admission that they believe that Guards would do their mates favours if they worked too close to home. Don't they have a code of conduct?

Also, this really makes community policing a non-reality.

It makes sense... If a guard was stationed in his home town and drank in his local pub, he could hardly be expected to raid the same pub one night and go drinking in it the next. Or if he is doing a speed check and his brother comes speeding down the road... who's gonna give their brother a speeding ticket.

Dermo

HelterSkelter wrote:

Well I know two Dubs who are Guards.

were they the 2 new cops that the government put onto the city's streets?

jesus_thats_gre

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I don't think that is enforced anymore. I know 7 Gardaí from Dublin and they are all stationed in Dublin.

I bet that he was first stationed on the opposite side of the city to which he was from?!?

magpie

If a guard was stationed in his home town and drank in his local pub, he could hardly be expected to raid the same pub one night and go drinking in it the next

So maybe the onus should be on the guard, as a professional, to abstain from hanging out in his local?

Tha Gopher

FillSpectre wrote:

I have always questioned the logic of putting some country boy into the heart of an troubled urban environment. Not being anti-culchie just have full memory of what college first years are like.

Its Dublin, not LA in feckin Training Day. Apart from the odd shooting and the junkies skulkin around the streets, a country cop in Dublin would deal with pretty much the same issues as back in his provincial town- burglaries, drunks fighting, busting small time drug dealers (a process easier in the country, as theyre all ratbags down there )

Actually, tbh the atmosphere in nightclubs outside the big smoke, and in smaller towns both before and after places shut at the weekend, is alot more tense than anything yid get in Dublin imho. Fair enough, in Dublin you have more people wired on coke knocking heads, but in the country people are more drunk. Its because down there the admittance policy of most clubs is if you can walk to a semi acceptable standard you can come in, whereas in Dublin if you have had too many your getting the early taxi home (unless your one of these people like my mate, who can meet you after an all dayer and be litreally barely able to pull a sentence together, but can hold his breath, talk sense and evapourate the "im pissed" look from his face just long enough to get in the door).

Anyway, in the country, yiv people turning into clubs after an all dayer and getting even more fcuked. Country is definitely a rowdier place when talking about drunk violence.

gurramok

Tha Gopher wrote:

Its Dublin, not LA in feckin Training Day. Apart from the odd shooting and the junkies skulkin around the streets, a country cop in Dublin would deal with pretty much the same issues as back in his provincial town- burglaries, drunks fighting, busting small time drug dealers (a process easier in the country, as theyre all ratbags down there )

Is this why in deprived suburb i live in that the cops have to police the area in large groups and never walkie patrol on their own?

Collie D

I know a Guard from Drumcondra who was stationed in Finglas, not sure if she's stil there cos haven't talked to her in years but that's definitely within 50 km. Working in city centre, you see a lot of Dublin Guards, the prick ratio is no lower or higher than country Guards ;o)

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I don't think that is enforced anymore. I know 7 Gardaí from Dublin and they are all stationed in Dublin.

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

I bet that he was first stationed on the opposite side of the city to which he was from?!?

('they' not 'he')

No - they are all from north county Dublin and stationed in Hotel, Kilo and Romeo districts in the northern suburbs.

cournioni

Why are all Guards from Leitrim/Mayo?

DublinWriter

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I don't think that is enforced anymore. I know 7 Gardaí from Dublin and they are all stationed in Dublin.

That rule is normally used for country areas, but all bets are off in the DMR as the area is so populous.

jetsonx

One theory about why all guards are from the country is this: a long time ago
if the poor (thick) farmers son's who had no land to inherit they went to Templemore and then Dublin.

This phenomena happens alot in other countries where the metropolitan
area are policed by people from the provinces.

Spitfire666

im from coolock originaly, im in the guards. the 50km rule only aplies to country areas and is only for whats called phase 2. (like an apreticeship-shadowing a unit). when you get your numbers and become an active guard, it changes to "within your own district". however this isnt always how it works. the seargents now have told me loads of times that when they went through templemore, there was no dubs in their group or only the one/two. nowadays (as in my group) almost half of my group are dubs. a gaurd from dub is actualy more likely to get dub now because most dubs wanna go to dublin. as i said, im originaly frm coolock, the 'R' district, i live in offaly now officialy, i got coolock on phase 2, now im active, im back in the 'R' even though im from the 'R' so the rules aren't always set in stone. as for the mayo lads, theres a guy in my group going to the 'R' and a girl going to Tipp.
In reality, the stationing system is based on who you know or who you impress on phase 2. then every one else gets whats left.

slipss

There should definatly be more dublin Gardai serving in Dublin, when I was younger there were two dublin gaurds that worked the beat in my area, they were walkies and they were from an area not all to far to the one they were patroling in.

They knew most people around the area and they were well liked even by dealers and scumbags because they knew how to relate to everyone having grown up in very similar circumstances. Plenty of times when there was a major fight building up between different gangs they would come come and talk to the people involved and try to calm things down before it got out of hand. They were also always able to get to know all the kids and teenagers around the place because they would walk up and just talk to us like normal people, instead of just stopping and searching everyone, every single time they came into contact with them as the gaurds do now. There was very little serious crime in the area for those three or four years compared to what it was like before and since.

I just don't feel that gaurds from mayo or kerry or limerick get the same level of trust or give the same level of mutual respect that garda that know the area and know the circumstances that the people grow up in. I thinks its partly due to a pejudice that some, not all garda from the country seem to have for dubs. And partly because of the how garda from the country are percieved by dubs, either way it would make alot more sense to take both of these things out of the equation.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

jetsonx wrote:

One theory about why all guards are from the country is this: a long time ago
if the poor (thick) farmers son's who had no land to inherit they went to Templemore and then Dublin.
.

that's no so long ago.... it still applies today.

FillSpectre

Tha Gopher wrote:

Its Dublin, not LA in feckin Training Day. Apart from the odd shooting and the junkies skulkin around the streets, a country cop in Dublin would deal with pretty much the same issues as back in his provincial town- burglaries, drunks fighting, busting small time drug dealers (a process easier in the country, as theyre all ratbags down there )

Either you have no idea what parts of Dublin are like or you have no idea of how nieve some people can be. Your description of what level of crimes cops deal with in bad parts of Dublin is actually quite funny. How many junkies do you reckon your average person for a provinicial towns mets?Hookers? Hooker junkies? Hooker junkies being beaten by their junkie boyfriend? Kids of hooker junkies? Areas where anybody running from the cops is allowed hide in any house. Are joy riders common in the country.

Tha Gopher wrote:

Anyway, in the country, yiv people turning into clubs after an all dayer and getting even more fcuked. Country is definitely a rowdier place when talking about drunk violence.

Sounds like you have no idea what the bad areas of Dublin are like. You seem to think people go into town for starters and don't have "all dayers". A coke head is a lot more dangerous than somebody who is drunk.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

FillSpectre wrote:

. A coke head is a lot more dangerous than somebody who is drunk.

thats bull s~it...

Collie D

slipss wrote:

There should definatly be more dublin Gardai serving in Dublin, when I was younger there were two dublin gaurds that worked the beat in my area, they were walkies and they were from an area not all to far to the one they were patroling in.

They knew most people around the area and they were well liked even by dealers and scumbags because they knew how to relate to everyone having grown up in very similar circumstances. Plenty of times when there was a major fight building up between different gangs they would come come and talk to the people involved and try to calm things down before it got out of hand. They were also always able to get to know all the kids and teenagers around the place because they would walk up and just talk to us like normal people, instead of just stopping and searching everyone, every single time they came into contact with them as the gaurds do now. There was very little serious crime in the area for those three or four years compared to what it was like before and since.

I just don't feel that gaurds from mayo or kerry or limerick get the same level of trust or give the same level of mutual respect that garda that know the area and know the circumstances that the people grow up in. I thinks its partly due to a pejudice that some, not all garda from the country seem to have for dubs. And partly because of the how garda from the country are percieved by dubs, either way it would make alot more sense to take both of these things out of the equation.

Couldn't agree more. I'm from Coolock and a lot of the Guards (not all) stationed there are country lads who seem to see every local as a potential criminal. They have no respect for the community they are supposed to be serving and in turn get no respect back. If there were more Dublin Guards serving in Dublin, they would understand the local psyche a bit more.

Mexicola

rcs wrote:

It makes sense... If a guard was stationed in his home town and drank in his local pub, he could hardly be expected to raid the same pub one night and go drinking in it the next. Or if he is doing a speed check and his brother comes speeding down the road... who's gonna give their brother a speeding ticket.

Are you for real? Of course he could be expected to raid the pub - its his f*cking job. If he is going to be selective then there's no point in him being a Garda now is there. What if he knows all the people in the village... would it turn into a lawless community? As with other professions, allowing personal 'feelings' get in the way of a job will mean it will be half arsed. It is exactly this kind of attitude that makes the Gardai a complete sham.

I have a friend who is a Garda. I drive a bike and up to recently I was allowed under my policy to drive other bikes. Now for some reason I cant (Carole Nash are you listening?) I mentioned to my Garda friend that I must take a spin off another mates new bike and instead of saying... yea go ahead, he took me aside and quietly advised me not to do it, in case something went wrong. I gladly accepted his advice and left it at that. This is the kind of attitude I would expect from the Gardai.

Spitfire666

yeah you can expect them to raid their local and arrest their friends because thats their job, but at the end of the day, guards are people too and have a life outside work. nobody can seriously expect a guard to arrest his brother for example, thats why you dont get station in your local district.
Theres a big diff between having a quiet word and advising not to use the bike but im sure if you said sod it and took it for a spin he wouldnt arrest you for no insurence. like he said, if something were to happen youd be ****jed but otherwise...

Tha Gopher

FillSpectre wrote:

Either you have no idea what parts of Dublin are like or you have no idea of how nieve some people can be. Your description of what level of crimes cops deal with in bad parts of Dublin is actually quite funny. How many junkies do you reckon your average person for a provinicial towns mets?Hookers? Hooker junkies? Hooker junkies being beaten by their junkie boyfriend? Kids of hooker junkies? Areas where anybody running from the cops is allowed hide in any house. Are joy riders common in the country.

Sounds like you have no idea what the bad areas of Dublin are like. You seem to think people go into town for starters and don't have "all dayers". A coke head is a lot more dangerous than somebody who is drunk.

Quit waffling.

People in Dublin do all dayers, of course, but not nearly as much as those in the country. Two reasons being

a- They wont get in/get served easily in Dublin by nightfall if theyve been drinking since 11. In the country generally they will NEVER refuse you admission/service unless you litreally cant stand

b- Price. The land of the 3.20 pint vs Dublin, home of every feckin expensive thing

c- Culturally its just not as big a thing. Dubs by and large regard country folk as violent alcoholics. Country people regard Dubs as thieving drug abusing alcoholics. Its a no win situation

Re the hookers, alright if your on the inner city beat maybe, but a country guard working the estates of West Dublin is nearly as likely to come into contact with women sellin it on street corners as back home

Wishbone Ash

jetsonx wrote:

a long time ago
if the poor (thick) farmers son's who had no land to inherit they went to Templemore

If it was "a long time ago" they would have gone to the Phoenix Park. Templemore opened in later years.

FillSpectre

Tha Gopher wrote:

Quit waffling.

If anybody is waffling it is you.

It sounds like you have never spent any time in the more colourful areas of Dublin. You know hookers live in the suburbs and drugs are sold out there too. Junkies steal in the suburbs. It isn't confined to the city.

Country cops in Dublin are often a disaster due to their complete lack of comprhension of their suroundings. I have seen it personally and it is not an issue of training but respect and street smarts. It is an issue but if you don't beleive that is fine it is still going to be there.

AS sombody already pointed out it is an issue in Coolock and that is the area with highest crime figurses AFAIK.

pclancy

Good post slipps...

I always thought the idea of sending all new cops to dublin was to "toughen then up" before finishing training and being sent off to wherever they're goin. I complelty agree with the no respect thing, its stupid to come into a new community, dublin or otherwise, give no respect and wonder why you're getting none in return. The guards should get to know the people they're protecting and not assume everyones a criminal.

I must say that ive never met a dublin cop in or out of dublin and the ones ive come into contact with up there have not given me any confidence at all because they were very young, looked terrified and all sounded like they were from Kerry. Not good. I'd be much happier meeting a tough lookin dublin cop when im in dublin knowing that he'd be able to deal with scum and not run back to store street, tail between legs.

magpie

I'd be much happier meeting a tough lookin dublin cop when im in dublin knowing that he'd be able to deal with scum and not run back to store street, tail between legs

My sentiments exactly

Tha Gopher

FillSpectre wrote:

If anybody is waffling it is you.

It sounds like you have never spent any time in the more colourful areas of Dublin. You know hookers live in the suburbs and drugs are sold out there too. Junkies steal in the suburbs. It isn't confined to the city.

Country cops in Dublin are often a disaster due to their complete lack of comprhension of their suroundings. I have seen it personally and it is not an issue of training but respect and street smarts. It is an issue but if you don't beleive that is fine it is still going to be there.

AS sombody already pointed out it is an issue in Coolock and that is the area with highest crime figurses AFAIK.

N1gga fcuk you, Im reppin Blanch-town to the fullest dogg.

For anyone from outside Dublin reading this Id like to point out that contrary to what Fills post might hint, the amount of 11 year old boys standing on Dublin streecorners at 3am selling crack and toting an Uzi is remarkably low. I dont think your getting my point. Fair enough, villages in the country of 200 people generally have nothing worth talking about, but the estates in towns like Drogheda, Dundalk, Cavan etc can be as rough as some in Dublin. I think your the one who hasnt the life experience mate, as Ive seen both sides and would marginally regard country folk as a surlier, more violent bunch of alcoholics.

As for the "talking down" element, I dont think its purely a case of Kerry cops vs Dublin Kids. Its basically country cops vs young people full stop. We got stopped while driving around north meath/south Cavan, my mate had a load of cheek given to him by an oul cop (mate is from Limerick)

And he didnt know he was from Limerick, in case you thought that just gave him more reason to take the piss

Terry

gonna have to agree with tha gopher there.
Leixlip, while being quite close to Dublin, is fairly rough at the best of times. the village is pretty muc a no-go area at the weekend.
further out, you have maynooth and celbridge. i was stabbed while out for a few quiet pints in celbridge and was jumped by three guys twice my size while in maynooth when i was 18.
further again you have [can't think of the name now. will edit later when it comes to me]. people have been kicked to death outside the nightclub there.

then you have enfield with its notoriously violent local club. navan and its problems. trim is similar.

the violence isn't contained at the nightlink on westmoreland street.

Tha Gopher

julep wrote:

.
further again you have [can't think of the name now. will edit later when it comes to me]. people have been kicked to death outside the nightclub there.

Carrig Springs nightclub in Cavan? Been once or twice because Ive family/friends there, feckin scumhole. At least two killings in the last decade (one young lad beaten to death, iirc the other was a bouncer who died when some guy drove a car at him after being thrown out)

How many Dublin clubs have a death rate this high?

LovelyHurling

im with the gopher on this too, theres no real difference in the depravity of crime be it town or country, I blame housing estates. They always have the same problems no matter where they are in this country. Housing estates = bad.

Terry

Tha Gopher wrote:

Carrig Springs nightclub in Cavan? Been once or twice because Ive family/friends there, feckin scumhole. At least two killings in the last decade (one young lad beaten to death, iirc the other was a bouncer who died when some guy drove a car at him after being thrown out)

How many Dublin clubs have a death rate this high?

summerhill in meath is the place i was referring to.

LovelyHurling, where else are people going to live, if not in housing estates?

flats?
didn't really work too well in ballymun.

snickerpuss

Collie D wrote:

Couldn't agree more. I'm from Coolock and a lot of the Guards (not all) stationed there are country lads who seem to see every local as a potential criminal. They have no respect for the community they are supposed to be serving and in turn get no respect back. If there were more Dublin Guards serving in Dublin, they would understand the local psyche a bit more.

I sadly agree with you, i live in coolock too and they always seem suspicious of you no matter what you're doing (ie- standing outside your house talking etc, silly things)

About the distance thing, I know someone whos a guard and he has to work 5 miles from his house.

DublinWriter

snickerpuss wrote:

About the distance thing, I know someone whos a guard and he has to work 5 miles from his house.

In country areas, reservists will not be allowed work within a nine-mile radius of where they live. So much for community policing, but it get's worse...

Reservists will have to be transported to and from their area of patrol by a regular member of An Garda Siochana.

So basically transporting reservists will tie up a regular patrol car containing two regular members for an average of 1.5 hours just so the reservist can do a four-hour tap.