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[Release] ComReg: Irish telecoms most expensive in EU

  • 29-06-2006 6:57pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,882 ✭✭✭ cgarvey


    Press Release issued. Feel free to discuss.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,882 ✭✭✭ cgarvey




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭ damien


    Ireland.com breaking news. (Registration needed.)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭ dahamsta


    ElectricNews.net (currently b0rked)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭ damien


    INN this evening and possibly in the morning. Metro too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ jwt


    From the electric news article Adam linked
    DSL accounts for 74 percent of total broadband subscribers, with other platforms accounting for the remaining 26 percent. Eircom's dominance in the broadband market is gradually slipping -- in the quarter ending 31 March the former incumbent had 54 percent of broadband subscriptions, compared to 63 percent in the year-ago quarter.


    Where do I start with that...........resellers anyone?


    John


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭ dahamsta


    It's ENN jwt. Intelligent coverage and commentary optional.

    Do you reckon they have a parrot around the office as a mascot?

    adam


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭ shoegirl


    damien.m wrote:

    I'm quite amazed that anybody actually believes this nonsensical notion that the Irish pay more because we "talk more." Incredible what excuses that are made to justify usury in Ireland.

    Ireland has the "6th cheapest" mobile costs - out of how many countries? 6?
    The report states: “This is largely due to Eircom’s higher costs associated with ... its significantly higher rural-based population.”

    Bull***t. The UK has a similar level of rural populations, as do France and countries like Switzerland, but this is not priced into BT or France Telecoms costs. Its nonsensical to keep suggesting this.

    What I do notice is the limited level of competition in the market. Almost all the operators basically offer the same thing at similar prices. Is this not price fixing? For example look at the basic package from all 4 operators:

    3 Ireland
    Talk and Text 200 €25 a month, 100 voice minutes & 100 text messages incl. Other calls 15c landlines 30c mobiles Text messages 9c

    Meteor
    Meteor Talk 60 Monthly Committment €20 Minutes Included 60 Cost for extra minutes 20c pm Texts included 30

    Vodafone
    Price Plan Perfect Fit 30 Monthly Fee €19 Free Call Minutes 30 Call a friend for free minutes 50 Other calls 35c p/m Text messages 13c

    O2
    Price plan Easy life 150 Monthly Charge €20
    Minutes included 150 (All networks) Texts included 50 O2 & Nat calls 30c/15c Peak/Off-peak Calls to other Irish mobile networks 35c

    Forgive me if I am imagining things but I see very little difference between 3 of the 4 plans - Vodafone being the exception as you get so much less!

    The problem is the same for landlines. There are 3 patterns:
    1. Line rental (slightly) discounted and calls set at a price a bit below eircom
    2. Line rental plus bundle of calls for a fixed amount
    3. Line rental remains with eircom but for a fee of 10-15 euros get free calls (effectively getting similar prices to the top eircom talktime package)

    On examination, Perlico, eircom, GAA Telecom, TalkTalk, BT and Imagine all offer option 2 for prices ranging from 29.99 to 39.99 - almost all are indentical. Only Perlico at 30 a month is significantly discounting the eircom package - most re just knocking about 2 euros a month off it - a paltry saving of 24 euros a year. No wonder so many are not changing away from eircom.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭ damien


    Lies.

    Pg 49 50 and 51 of this EU report shows that for their mobile comparison baskets for low usage we are 4th most expensive country, for medium usage we are 3rd most expensive and for heavy usage we are 4th most expensive.

    The structure of these baskets:

    baskets are:
    • Low usage basket with:
    25 outgoing calls per month + 30 SMS messages
    42% of calls are to fixed line phones, 58% to mobile phones

    • Medium usage basket with:
    75 outgoing calls per month + 35 SMS messages
    36% of calls are to fixed line phones, 64% to mobile phones

    • High usage basket with:
    150 outgoing calls per month + 42 SMS messages
    40% of calls are to fixed line phones, 60% to mobile phones

    Each basket also has a unique definition of time of day distribution and call duration, and includes the monthly rental, and any registration charges distributed over 3 years.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    Where do Comreg get these misleading 'baskets' of theirs from ?

    Nice to see that Switzerland was taken out of the EU ARPU figures by Comreg for the first time seeing as the Swiss voted to stay out of the EU in a referendum and all :p

    Now we are top of the table, wehhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

    And did anyone hear Isolde speaking to Emma McNamara at the end of 5/7 live yesterday, Emma took no prisoners :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ jwt


    ComReg’s public affairs manager, Tom Butler, said the comparisons used were available for the public to see in the report and the results spoke for themselves.

    Yes they do speak for themselves.....doesn't mean they are saying good things though, does it?

    What a condescending attitude. Take it or leave it eh? A nice not actually denying it statement, but makes it look like they have not skewed the results by selective data sampling. Tom's getting better at the political type comments. So to all those who moan that Comreg don't learn from their mistakes, your wrong.

    Reminds me of a policeman talking about a young fella caught committing burglaries via his fingerprints.
    When asked by the judge if he had learned his lesson, said moron replied "Yes your honour, next time I'll wear gloves"


    John


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭ dahamsta


    Unison (no cite)
    Midlands Radio (no cite, inn?)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭ dahamsta


    Won't be long before Tom moves to Eircom.

    (I was being facetious, but out of curiousity, do they have clauses in their contracts preventing this?)

    adam


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭ Foxwood


    shoegirl wrote:
    Bull***t. The UK has a similar level of rural populations, as do France and countries like Switzerland, but this is not priced into BT or France Telecoms costs. Its nonsensical to keep suggesting this.
    Not quite. Ireland has a fairly unique type of "ribbon development". Other countries have a much more clustered rural population - a far higher percentage of the rural population live in villages rather than outside them.
    What I do notice is the limited level of competition in the market. Almost all the operators basically offer the same thing at similar prices. Is this not price fixing? For example look at the basic package from all 4 operators:

    3 Ireland
    Talk and Text 200 €25 a month, 100 voice minutes & 100 text messages incl. Other calls 15c landlines 30c mobiles Text messages 9c

    Meteor
    Meteor Talk 60 Monthly Committment €20 Minutes Included 60 Cost for extra minutes 20c pm Texts included 30

    Vodafone
    Price Plan Perfect Fit 30 Monthly Fee €19 Free Call Minutes 30 Call a friend for free minutes 50 Other calls 35c p/m Text messages 13c

    O2
    Price plan Easy life 150 Monthly Charge €20
    Minutes included 150 (All networks) Texts included 50 O2 & Nat calls 30c/15c Peak/Off-peak Calls to other Irish mobile networks 35c

    Forgive me if I am imagining things but I see very little difference between 3 of the 4 plans - Vodafone being the exception as you get so much less!
    More than 30% spread between the cost of the highest and lowest, 5 times as many minutes in one package as in another, and more than 100% difference in the price of "extra" minutes between some packages.

    Yeah, I see what you mean about obvious price fixing between operators (NOT!)

    Eircom spokespersons and ComReg bods get paid to spout misleading statistics. There's no point in trying to compete with them. It doesn't help anyone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭ damien


    Proving ComReg have no spine, they've pulled out of an interview on the Newstalk Lunchtime show about their report. They'll instead send a statement. IrelandOffline got free reign in the interview. Tut tut lads. Least Davey Mc knows it is better to come on air then leave us rant away without being challenged.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,882 ✭✭✭ cgarvey


    Listen to said interview on our website.

    .cg


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,882 ✭✭✭ cgarvey


    Damien was on the Last Word as well .. that snip, too, is up on our website.

    .cg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭ zuma


    cgarvey wrote:
    Damien was on the Last Word as well .. that snip, too, is up on our website.

    .cg


    The Comreg spokesman was very sour, refuseing to speak to you Damien.....are you bullying him for pocket money or something :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭ damien


    http://enn.ie/frontpage/news-9721151.html
    Communications regulator ComReg issued a statement on Friday responding to what it said are "a number of comments made in relation to ComReg's quarterly report" issued this week. The main points of the statement were: since market liberalisation, telecommunications prices have decreased compared to the Consumer Price Index; based on IBEC figures, businesses are more concerned with energy, transport and waste costs than with telecoms costs; and Ireland is in a "relatively good position" for mobile phone prices at 7 out of 19 for post-paid, and 9 out of 19 for pre-paid. ComReg said it "strongly refutes" any charge that it is selective in presenting its pricing data which comes from researchers at Teligen and is OECD-approved.

    Getting worried boys and girl?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭ Blaster99


    So what are the differences between the EU and the OECD/ComReg baskets and why would one be more relevant than the other? Perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see a definition of the OECD baskets in the ComReg report.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭ Foxwood


    Sponge Bob wrote:
    And did anyone hear Isolde speaking to Emma McNamara at the end of 5/7 live yesterday, Emma took no prisoners :D
    Real Audio clip availabe on the RTÉ website.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    Why did Comreg remove a key OECD table from the June Report that was in the March report then . I refer to the Important OECD table in Fig 2.8.4 in the March report that went completely AWOL from the June report.

    Yet Isolde was referring to the basic stats in this missing table in her interview with Emma and without stating her source for her assertions to Emma . She has no doubt seen the source ....but more anon.

    Then there is the % increase table published by the OECD which is never reproduced by Comreg in any reports and never has been , fortunately there is the more definitive Comwreck report instead :D Here is how we were doing a few years back.

    oecd_bb_increase_small.gif

    The OECD, furthermore, published this exhaustive survey on APRIL 11th 2006 so why did Comreg ignore it one wonders .

    The reason for the deliberate removal of Fig 2.8.4 , despite the availability of up to date figures during the preparation of the June report is all in this spreadsheet on the OECD site from which I take the following data.

    OECD Broadband subscribers per 100 inhabitants, by technology, December 2005

    DSL Cable Other Total
    Iceland 25.9 0.1 0.6 26.7
    Korea 13.6 8.3 3.4 25.43
    (snip)
    New Zealand 7.3 0.4 0.4 8.1
    Ireland 5.0 0.6 1.1 6.7
    Czech Republic 3.0 1.4 2.0 6.4
    Hungary 4.1 2.1 0.1 6.3
    (snip)
    OECD 8.4 4.2 1.0 13.6
    EU 15 11.7 2.2 0.3 14.2

    We are at less than half the EU15 average and less than half the OECD average and with the Czechs and Slovaks breathing down our necks .

    The other question I have been told to ask about the Comreg figures is as follows.

    Of the 330k odd BB connections why does Comreg count 20k IBB Ripwaves as BB when the dog on the street knows they are not BB. Should the true figure not be 310k BB connections.

    But the real problem is when you look at the chart from Comwreck and what should be the latest chart (those OECD figures above in chart form) NZ were behind us and are now ahead. The Czechs and Slovaks were way behind and have very nearly caught up . In fact they have caught up by now but Comreg were 'saved' by the ripwaves.
    And in that OECD Spreadsheet is the very chart that Comreg deliberately deleted , Its attached below and should be compared to fig 2.8.4 in the March Quarterly report .

    We actually went BACKWARDS so Comreg simply deleted the chart.


  • Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭ DonegalMan


    Sponge Bob wrote:
    And did anyone hear Isolde speaking to Emma McNamara at the end of 5/7 live yesterday, Emma took no prisoners :D
    What an absolutely disgraceful performance from somebody who is supposed to be in charge of Telecoms regulation.

    I: "We're improving ... we're catching up .. at this rate we will be forging ahead".

    E: "This time last year we were number 20 out of 25, are we still number 20 ?"

    I: "Umm... umm...umm we have improved a bit ... umm..umm ... don't have the suport figures ... umm.umm we're probably about 17 or 18."

    (not verbatim but near enough)

    Saw a programme about Spitting Images this week - this sounds like something straight out of it. It would be hilarious ... if only it wasn't so damned serious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭ damien


    She picked a figure out of thin air. I'm very very disappointed that Isolde Goggin has stooped to this. Tut tut. Is there no redemption at all for ComReg now?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭ JohnC.


    They really should be more transparent and accountable. They should not be allowed to get away with stuff like that. They have clearly been using selective information and publishing a press release denying this should not be tolerated at face value. They should be made to publically, and fully, account for their figures and why there are gaps. No sweeping it under the carpet. They can deny claims against them only if they have proper and full information to back it up.

    And as for the way she apparently plucked those figures out of the air...if she knew the true figures, she should have admitted it. If she did not know the figures, she should have just said so and not given any figures. If she just made it up or if she lied, it is not acceptable. Someone in such a position who does that should be out of a job.

    Sorry for that rant. I'm just feeling a bit pissed off at them right now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭ Blaster99


    Another thing I don't understand is, if the EU does this analysis why does ComReg go and pay for it separately? It sounds like a complete and utter waste of tax payers money. ComReg should rely on the EU's impartial data and get a grip.


  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ jwt


    Damien

    Take a bow.

    Glad somebody on the committee had their facts and figures on mobiles to hand, I certainly didn't.

    Love the comment on Last word.

    LAST WORD (Matt)
    "I know you don't want to engage with the consumer group Ireland Offline but if you hold on the line I'll come back to about land line charges in a moment."

    COMREG (Dermot Nolan)
    "Sure"

    LAST WORD (Matt)
    "Eh..Damine Mulley........"


    Now Dermot asserted quite clearly that

    "It is not a Comreg report, we are not using Comreg data,we are using OECD data, approved by the OECD and thus it is not our data at all. So I'd like to correct that, which is clearly wrong"

    Sooo this begs some very interesting questions.

    Are Comreg in fact using OECD data?

    If so are they selectively pulling stats?

    Which bits of the report are based on OECD data?

    Do the OECD know that COMREG are doing this, and more importantly have they given Comreg permission to selectively quote them without specifically stating so?

    Does the OECD agree with Comregs interpretation of the facts?

    I feel some interesting emails coming on :)

    John


  • Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭ DonegalMan


    jwt wrote:
    Damien ... Take a bow ... Glad somebody on the committee had their facts and figures on mobiles to hand, I certainly didn't.
    Yes, that was a superb interview - Damien came across a someone who knew what he was talking about, Comreg came across as pure wafflers.

    They've also lost the plot completely by admitting on air that they don't want to engage with IOFFL, especially when Damien was able to give so many hard facts in such a professional manner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,121 ✭✭✭ Ronan|Raven


    Fair play to IOFFL for the great work they continue to put into this.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭ dahamsta


    This entire thread brings me a special feeling in my subcockle area, so to speak.


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