Sliding sash windows

kadman

I was recently asked to make wooden sliding sash windows, by a good friend.
So i said I'd look into it.

He said he had got some quotes recently that were staggering. But his biggest issue was that the lead times were up to three months.

Any one here have a similar problem with the lead times for windows.

kadman

mad m

Are these the up&down sash windows with the weights on either side?

kadman

Hi madm,

The very ones indeed. Although there are a couple of types of sliding sash windows.
Spring balances, weights and pulleys , and a plastic insert called a bonavara system.

Although he was willing to take the cheaper construction bonavara system, still got a 3 month lead time.

kadman

sas

Hi Kadman,

Given that its something we will be looking at soon I'm wondering what qualifies as "staggering" these days.

Read an article recently where Marvin Architectural were saying that you can expect to pay up to 2K a unit for sliding sash windows. Was it in the region of that?

Thanks

SAS

kadman

Hi SAS,

Sorry for the delay, posting on another website as well at the moment, so I'm flicking between sites.

Cost wise , 2k for a 1200 wide by about 2440 high could run to 2k+.

It all depends on the spec , cill size overhang , sliding sash type, glazing method. Material used , primed or natural, laminated or not, arch or square.

At the moment there seems to be huge demand for them , especially the traditional construction , for heritage granted conservation projects as well.

Thats when I stared to think why not.

kadman

foamcutter

Kadman,

we worked at a house that used Andersen windows (US). 3 month lead time, dont know the exact cost but i assume they weren't cheap.
Arrived well packaged. Sliding sash, with a tilting facility. Nice smooth action, the only feature that wasn't to good was the georgian bars were bowing out and getting caught on the other frame. The local distributor got them sorted though.

kadman

foamcutter wrote:

Kadman,

we worked at a house that used Andersen windows (US). 3 month lead time, dont know the exact cost but i assume they weren't cheap.
Arrived well packaged. Sliding sash, with a tilting facility. Nice smooth action, the only feature that wasn't to good was the georgian bars were bowing out and getting caught on the other frame. The local distributor got them sorted though.

Hi foamcutter,

Lead times to be running at around that alright. Bowed glazing bars can be a problem , especially if they are fitted to give individual panes of glass.

A complete pane with plant on glazing is not as troublesome. But if you break a pne, you have to strip all the glazing bars. Messy

kadman

Debracd

Kadman, my sis(yes there's more of us!) had a few companies out looking at her original sash windows recently with a view to replacing or renovating them. I'm not 100% sure what info she got, but you could PM her over on the other side and she'd be able to give you a better idea!

Deb

kadman

Thanks for the invite Deb,

|I,ll pop over there and pm her and see how she got on.

have they been done yet.

kadman

Wishbone Ash

Kadman,

My employer replaced ten very large sash windows with uPVC about ten years ago. When the job was complete someone pointed out that the building was listed and the removal/replacement of the sash windows would require PP. New windows had to be ordered in the UK at a whopping IR£4,000 each (10 yrs ago!).

Red faces all around.

Wobs

Hi,

I got about 10 quotes for sliding sash, from uPVC, traditional wood with weights etc and aluminium clad and all were minimum 12 weeks delivery.

kadman

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Kadman,

My employer replaced ten very large sash windows with uPVC about ten years ago. When the job was complete someone pointed out that the building was listed and the removal/replacement of the sash windows would require PP. New windows had to be ordered in the UK at a whopping IR£4,000 each (10 yrs ago!).

Red faces all around.

Funny you should say that.

I replaced many pvc sliding sash windows, with solid timber in Dublin areas, mainly due to the same thing. developers installed all pvc , only to have us replace them after.

kadman

kadman

Debracd wrote:

Kadman, my sis(yes there's more of us!) had a few companies out looking at her original sash windows recently with a view to replacing or renovating them. I'm not 100% sure what info she got, but you could PM her over on the other side and she'd be able to give you a better idea!

Deb

Hi Debracd,

Why have you kept the virtual bar a secret from us all this time.

I can foresee a drove of thirsty diyers, heading there , after a hard days work.

You crafty devil.....:D

A virtual pint and perhaps a virtual lapdance

Can you pm me the sis's name , i'd like to check on the window situation.

Has she had the repairs done at this stage.

kadman

eddiej

Kadman,

Where?

Debracd

Will do Kadman

kadman

eddiej wrote:

Kadman,

Where?

I,m here Eddiej:D

Sorry elaborate please,

tim

kadman

Hi eddiej,

Sliding sash info, I,m yer man.

Virtual bar...follow Debracd;)

kadman

antoinolachtnai

Surely this can be done cheaper and faster? I have a partner overseas who could do this. What sort of wood is in these things? Does anybody have some diagrams for making 'em?

*sniffs an opportunity*

kadman

I do , I can make them and design them , why.

What part of overseas is your partner in, as there are varying standards for sliding sash windows, and specs.

kadman

antoinolachtnai

guy is in poland.

There is obviously not very much point unless they are made to the Irish spec.

kadman

antoinolachtnai wrote:

guy is in poland.

There is obviously not very much point unless they are made to the Irish spec.

Is he a joiner , and has he made them before

kadman

" sniffs a better opportunity":D

paddynead

This is my first time to post, I’ve been reading all the post for the last month and I have taking lots of great tips from them thanks.
I am Just starting the search for sliding sash windows, Can anybody tell me what are the standard size (small,med & large ) sliding sash window as when I ask the window companies they tell me they custom make any size window. We have about 25 windows and I would like to keep the costs down (keep them to a standard) I was a bit shocked to here SAS’s find of 2K per unit. Also has anyone got any recommendations for good quality window companies as I have trolled the golden pages and sent e-mails to many companies looking for brochures, but only received a hand full?

kadman

paddynead wrote:

This is my first time to post, I’ve been reading all the post for the last month and I have taking lots of great tips from them thanks.
I am Just starting the search for sliding sash windows, Can anybody tell me what are the standard size (small,med & large ) sliding sash window as when I ask the window companies they tell me they custom make any size window. We have about 25 windows and I would like to keep the costs down (keep them to a standard) I was a bit shocked to here SAS’s find of 2K per unit. Also has anyone got any recommendations for good quality window companies as I have trolled the golden pages and sent e-mails to many companies looking for brochures, but only received a hand full?

Hi paddynead,

Well if cost is an issue there are a couple of options to try and keep the cost down.

Would you be willing to do any amount of work on them. Painting , glazing fixing ect. If you were , it is possible to bring the windows a lot below 2k.

kadman

sas

paddynead wrote:

I was a bit shocked to here SAS’s find of 2K per unit.

The company I mentioned in the original post are at
http://www.marvin-architectural.com/owner/home.html

I've seen their windows at the "Spring Home & Garden Show" in the RDS. The internal pine finish externally clad in aluminium in a large window is quite impressive. But if these are the ones at 2K+ they'd damn well want to be, wouldn't they?

If its of any use they are listed for the SelfBuild show in punchestown in Sept.

Search this forum too its definitely come up in the last few months.

SAS

kadman

Standard window at about 1200 x 1800 could go as far as 1500+.

Materail maybe teak, or mahogany sashes and casing .. Internal liners, sapele , Tatajuba ( sp)

This type would not necessarily be either laminated sections or aluclad, or dry glazed either

kadman

antoinolachtnai

kadman wrote:

Is he a joiner , and has he made them before

kadman

" sniffs a better opportunity":D

ah shir, a few carpentry books, some white deal and a chisel and away they'll go.

Seriously, there must be a lot of demand for these, like nearly ten thousand of units a year in Ireland alone, no? I hope you don't have to make 'em all yourself.

kadman

antoinolachtnai wrote:

ah shir, a few carpentry books, some white deal and a chisel and away they'll go.

Seriously, there must be a lot of demand for these, like nearly ten thousand of units a year in Ireland alone, no? I hope you don't have to make 'em all yourself.

I do,

But I wont be using white deal though

Wobs

Hi Paddynead,

I got alot of quotes for sliding sash, from trad, PVC and the likes of Marvin. The difference between the cheapest and dearest was only about 4 - 5 grand. I went with Marvin who were the most expensive but I felt were the best, and fotr that bit extra over the lifetime of the windows worth it.

They are alu clad which comes with a life time guarentee and both sash's tilt in and can be taken out quite easily for cleaning or painting.

Another company to look at who do a very similar product ot Marvin are Lowen Windows, and I think they may be a little cheaper. i would say their quality is as good if not slightly better than Marvin. We didn't go with them because the guy was alittle slow at getting back to us as he was just setting up as the Irish agent and we had to make a decision.

If you can, pay for good windows as they really make the difference to how the house will look.

sas

Wobs wrote:

The difference between the cheapest and dearest was only about 4 - 5 grand

The vast majority of self builders I know would hope to get all their windows for that 4 -5 grand

kadman

sas wrote:

The vast majority of self builders I know would hope to get all their windows for that 4 -5 grand

Might be possible..if they supplied and fitted their own glass , and fitted the window

kadman

Wobs

sas wrote:

The vast majority of self builders I know would hope to get all their windows for that 4 -5 grand

Well when you are looking at sliding sash you would be lucky to get 4-5 average size for that.
To give you an idea Paddynead, We had 22 sash windows average size about 1.5 x 1 mtr, 1 casement window and 2 sets of french doors and our quotes went from about 29k to about 34/35k.

sas

Wobs wrote:

Well when you are looking at sliding sash you would be lucky to get 4-5 average size for that.
To give you an idea Paddynead, We had 22 sash windows average size about 1.5 x 1 mtr, 1 casement window and 2 sets of french doors and our quotes went from about 29k to about 34/35k.

For reference, how recently was that? Just interested in how "inflation" may have affected that price.

Wobs

Hi Sas,

All the quotes were from last year .

paddynead

Thanks for all the replies.

We could paint and install them, will this cut a bit off the price? How much would the painting alone cut off?

kadman wrote:

Hi paddynead,

Well if cost is an issue there are a couple of options to try and keep the cost down.

Would you be willing to do any amount of work on them. Painting , glazing fixing ect. If you were , it is possible to bring the windows a lot below 2k.

kadman

I just found the loewen website will contact them. Txs wobs

What do people prefer Alu Clad or timber window which is more expensive? My windows will be white is there a lot of up keep with the timber? Large area of the house is south facing.
We want the windows to look as real as possible. If some of our windows are non opening will this help with the cost? Will it still look good?

kadman

paddynead wrote:

Thanks for all the replies.

We could paint and install them, will this cut a bit off the price? How much would the painting alone cut off?





I just found the loewen website will contact them. Txs wobs

What do people prefer Alu Clad or timber window which is more expensive? My windows will be white is there a lot of up keep with the timber? Large area of the house is south facing.
We want the windows to look as real as possible. If some of our windows are non opening will this help with the cost? Will it still look good?

If some your windows were fixed sashes, i reckon it would cut up to 10% of a window price , depending on how many sashes were fixed in a window. And what type of window system it was.

Complete fitting of sashes weights, cords and widow frame , you could save about 75 -100 euro a windwo. IF YOU KNEW WHAT you were doing.

painting could save you a small percentage of the overall cost , but it is labour intensive.

kadman

antoinolachtnai

I have done a little work on sash windows in my time, and I am with kadman here. It is seriously labour-intensive stuff, and if you don't know what you're doing it can take a lot of time.

kingswood

hi all, i have a joinery shop in london and will be happy to quote for any windows wanted, they certainly wont cost 2k ea and i'll deliver them home to anywhere in ireland at no extra cost.

extopia

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Kadman,

My employer replaced ten very large sash windows with uPVC about ten years ago. When the job was complete someone pointed out that the building was listed and the removal/replacement of the sash windows would require PP. New windows had to be ordered in the UK at a whopping IR£4,000 each (10 yrs ago!).

Red faces all around.

Yep. Served him right. Imagine owning a listed building and not knowing this...

S.L.F

extopia wrote: »

Yep. Served him right. Imagine owning a listed building and not knowing this...

I heard a story from one of my competitors about a woman who bought a sea front building in Seapoint.

Took all the windows out and put in uPVC took all the shutters and window surrounds out because they were too much trouble to paint.

I think it was about 25 windows with surrounds.

Council found out and forced them to reinstate the sash windows as they were and reinstate the surrounds with shutters.

Wish I had been there when it happened (wish I had gotten the job)

I'll never understand why some people buy old buildings then rip out the best of it.

Never understand.

cilldara34

you can get them a lot cheaper than that i got mine for 750 for the same size windows

jpos1

were they fully finished.... what was the quality like

cilldara34

The exact same windows that are on the web site. fully finished pine hardwood cills painted on outside laqured on the inside.

Deirdra

Hi,

We are building at the minute & we're ready for windows but finding it hard to make a decision. We had hoped to put sliding sash windows across the front & on the gables & ordinary casement windows across the back. Initially we were only considering upvc sliding sash windows as we thought there would be too much maintenance on a timber equivalent.

At the weekend we went out to the self-build exhibition in Citywest to get some more information. We spoke with one company from Tipperary who only do timber windows & they told us that their sliding sash windows are completely maintenance free because they're treated in a special way. Is this possible?


Also, over time, since the sliding sash windows do not have rubber seals, could they become draughty?

Would appreciate as much information as possible in relation to sliding sash windows.

thanks

antoinolachtnai

Why would they not have rubber or other types of seals?

How long wood will last is going to depend on what type of wood is used, as well as the type of finish. Choosing woods is very complicated. In general, hardwoods like teak are more expensive than softwoods.

It's hard to imagine that there's a finish you can put on wood that will never require painting or varnishing or oiling, but maybe there is.

Deirdra

They have 'draught strips' but they're not rubber. They're like little hairs or bristles & Im just wndering will they get damaged over time if the windows are used alot.

antoinolachtnai

re seals wearing out - same issue whatever the windows are made of. there is no particular reason why rubber would last longer than brush seals. It's a matter of which type is more appropriate for a particular application.

maqsash

I use micro potous paint on our sash windows and the paint co. gives a 10 year guarantee . Thats the best paint option I could find , you have to use an oil based paint when retoring single glazed sash windows.