2nd worst health service in Europe.

Archeron

Just been listening to the reports on the radio that tell us that Ireland has the 2nd worst health service in Europe. (we're ahead of Lithuania, woohoo!)I must say that while there is obviously problems in the health service, this statistic is really shocking. I genuinley didnt think things were that bad.

Over the past couple of years, both my parents (whom are on medical cards) have needed a lot of medical help. My dad was treated brilliantly and really quickly throught the National Treatment Purchase Fund, and my mum gets a lot of help for her ongoing illness. Everyone who is involved is brilliant, and we couldnt ask to be dealing with nicer people. I have experienced bad A&E waits in the past, but I still fail to see how things are this bad overall. Perhaps I am one of the lucky ones??

How do you feel on this? Are you surprised at this ranking? Have you had good or bad experiences that make you agree/diagree with this report?

Kernel

No, our health service is absolutely terrible. I went for penis size reduction surgery (getting it down to 12 inches) and was stuck on a trolley for 3 nights! C'est ridicule!

Pighead

Kernel wrote:

No, our health service is absolutely terrible. I went for penis size reduction surgery (getting it down to 12 inches) and was stuck on a trolley for 3 nights! C'est ridicule!

And when they finally did get around to treating you, the idiots totally fcuked up by reducing your manhood to a tiddly 1.2 inches.

Honestly, if Lithuania has a worse Health Service than my names not Pighead.

jor el

Archeron wrote:

Are you surprised at this ranking?

Not really. Ashamed of it yes, but surprised, no.

I guess the people in Lithuania get to wait outside in the cold for a hospital bed then, as it's hard to imagine any worse than lieing in a corrodor for days on end.

Dermington

I've payed my dues
time after time
I've done my sentence
but commited no crime
and bad mistakes
I've made a few
I've had my share of sandkicks in my face
but I've come through
(And we mean to go on, and on, and on, and on)

We are the champions, my friend
and we'll keep on fighting
till the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause We are the champions
Of the world

I've taken my bows
and my curtain calls
you brought me fame and fortune
and everything that goes with it
I thank you all
but it's been no bed of roses
no pleasure cruise
I consider it a challenge before
the whole human race
And I ain't gonna lose
(And we mean to go on, and on, and on, and on)

We are the champions, my friend
and we'll keep on fighting
till the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause We are the champions
Of the world

We are the champions, my friend
and we'll keep on fighting
till the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause We are the champions

Mossy Monk

hmmmmmmm

a resounding WTF goes off in my head

BoozyBabe

Dermington, you weirdo!!!!!

No, I'm not surprised at all! Our Health Service is a joke, & nobody seems to give a sh!t.
Mary Harney:- what a muppet.

fly_agaric

BoozyBabe wrote:

Our Health Service is a joke, & nobody seems to give a sh!t.

Yep. 1st reply to this thread was from a poster making a crack about people waiting on trolleys. HA HA HA - what a laugh-riot!:(

Kernel

fly_agaric wrote:

Yep. 1st reply to this thread was from a poster making a crack about people waiting on trolleys. HA HA HA - what a laugh-riot!:(

No, I really was left on a trolley for 3 nights. I've experienced it first hand. But hey, you have to laugh, otherwise it's just the usual health service moaning.

On a serious note Boozybabe - Harney is the right person for the job, but such a ****ed system cannot be un****ed overnight, and it's not a simple case of money. Her restructuring will probably work, but her career may not last as long.

I am totally against moving the childrens hospital from Crumlin to the Mater, doesn't make sense to me and seems like a step backwards, but other than that I'll give her another year or two to sort out the debacle.

Ponster

And if anyone wants to read the article :

http://euobserver.com/9/21960

In Ireland, the country dubbed the "Celtic tiger", long praised for its economic feats over the past decades, the report has sparked heavy media attention for highlighting the national health sector's poor performance.

Both Ireland and the UK feature low on the index, with Dublin having "severe waiting list problems and less than fantastic outcomes," while Britain - on the 15th place - is portrayed as a "mediocre overall performer" - although good on heart problems and excellent on healthcare information.

On the other hand, Slovenia, Estonia, Hungary and Poland get the highest ranking for "value for money," while Ireland, Lithuania and Greece are at the bottom of the table.

I've never lived and worked in Ireland so I can't really compare but here in France I couldn't ask for a better system. It's €20 to visit a doctor and €17 of that is refunded by the state. 60% of perscriptions are also reembursed (up to 100% if you have private health-care top-up which about 100% of full-time workers have).

I carry a card around with my entire medical history on it (I see Ireland is getting the same thing) which comes in very useful when you have an accident or need to visit a different doctor from usual.

shnaek

Let's try to beat Lithuania! I'm sure we could do it.....:D

Lump

I've always found the health service good TBH, then again I have health insurance.

Kernel

Lump wrote:

I've always found the health service good TBH, then again I have health insurance.

So have I, and I got 3 nights trolley surrounded by drunk troublemakers and junkies (1 night crammed in a small room with 3 others - including one incredibly smelly homeless guy), 2 nights public ward with convicted prisoner and the rest in semi-private. As an outpatient waiting for 5 hours after my appointed time to be seen by doctor.

When you get admitted to the A&E it's a different story unfortunately, and one which many patients don't see.

Lump

I'm only talking about my experience down in Kilkenny, and time I've needed an operation, I've gone to the Private Hospital Aut Even and had it done straight away. The only time I experienced A&E was in England, when I had to wait for 4 hours on a busy saturday night (I had been working as a bouncer) A wait in A&E is to be expected.

John

BoozyBabe

Restructuring my ar$e!!!!!!

Here's ye complaining about moving a hosp in Dub a few miles away to another area of Dub, not much of an impact on the patient (waste of money maybe...)

I have a perfectly good hospital, 10 miles from me. It did everything. We have a shortage of beds in this country, overcrowding, etc, etc, etc....

What did they do:- they closed pretty much every service in the hospital. It's practically a doctors day surgery now.

where's my nearest hospital now, there's 2, both atleast 50 miles away, & it's pot luck which you get sent to, & when you get there, there's no beds for you anyway.

If an ambulance at the scene of an accident realises the patient will not make the journey & tries to get some assistance at my local hospital to try & stabilise the patient for the journey, they get turned away, as the hospital is "not allowed"

I've lost count of the number of people who have died simply because the hospital has been closed, & there is not another one close enough by.
That is not an opinion, it's a well documented fact.

How the hell is that progress!!!!!!!

& it's not that there wasn't a large enough catchment area for the hospital, the HSE just didn't want the expense of running another hospital, & fcuk the implications this has on the patients!!!!

Sorry if I sound just a little p!ssed off, but that's because I am.

It's an absolute shambles, just like everything else the powers that be put their hands to.

Dermington

Refer to my previous post.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Lump you animal...I hope you gave those scallywags a good thrashing for putting you in A&E.

Tha Gopher

I love the way Ireland always tops Europewide polls. Every few months a new survey is released and we find out we have the highest alcohol consumption, highest rate of teen drinking, highest levels of cannabis, cocaine and ecstasy use, and now we top a health survey, at least if you choose to read it upside down.:)

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

The report might make Mary Harney get the finger out...

ambrose :cool:

fly_agaric

Kernel wrote:

No, I really was left on a trolley for 3 nights. I've experienced it first hand.

Fair enough.

Kernel wrote:

But hey, you have to laugh, otherwise it's just the usual health service moaning.

I suppose so. What else can people do but moan [or joke if you are the type who likes graveyard humour] though (excluding the obvious of giving the FF/PD options paddy-last preference at the next GE and explaining why when they or other politicians come calling)?

netwhizkid

Tha Gopher wrote:

I love the way Ireland always tops Europewide polls. Every few months a new survey is released and we find out we have the highest alcohol consumption, highest rate of teen drinking, highest levels of cannabis, cocaine and ecstasy use, and now we top a health survey, at least if you choose to read it upside down.:)

You forgot to add Broadband to your list there Gopher, We also top that only upside down. The Greeks have now relegated us to 25th place in that league too. Simple answer to these polls is go to the Polls yourself next May/June and ensure that Fianna Fail and the Progressive Democrats don't top out electoral polls. Ten year syndrome I call it.

netwhizkid

netwhizkid wrote:

You forgot to add Broadband to your list there Gopher, We also top that only upside down. The Greeks have now relegated us to 25th place in that league too. Simple answer to these polls is go to the Polls yourself next May/June and ensure that Fianna Fail and the Progressive Democrats don't top out electoral polls. Ten year syndrome I call it.

Times are bad.

Incidentally, you pick up that Beemer in England yet? You know, the one where you were moaning about the VRT in this country on some other thread?

As for what way to vote, you should put political stuff on the political site. You still post there?

Anyway, must nip back to my 'The Economist states that Ireland has best quality of life in the world' thread...

constitutionus

Deleted User wrote:

Times are bad.

Incidentally, you pick up that Beemer in England yet? You know, the one where you were moaning about the VRT in this country on some other thread?

As for what way to vote, you should put political stuff on the political site. You still post there?

Anyway, must nip back to my 'The Economist states that Ireland has best quality of life in the world' thread...

actually seeing as the EU is about to make VRT illeagal he's probably better off waiting a while:D
good old ireland still miles behind singapore in the corruption perception index, wonder what parties responsible for that? *cough*haughey*cough*:D

Terry

Archeron wrote:

Just been listening to the reports on the radio that tell us that Ireland has the 2nd worst health service in Europe. (we're ahead of Lithuania, woohoo!)I must say that while there is obviously problems in the health service, this statistic is really shocking. I genuinley didnt think things were that bad.

Over the past couple of years, both my parents (whom are on medical cards) have needed a lot of medical help. My dad was treated brilliantly and really quickly throught the National Treatment Purchase Fund, and my mum gets a lot of help for her ongoing illness. Everyone who is involved is brilliant, and we couldnt ask to be dealing with nicer people. I have experienced bad A&E waits in the past, but I still fail to see how things are this bad overall. Perhaps I am one of the lucky ones??

How do you feel on this? Are you surprised at this ranking? Have you had good or bad experiences that make you agree/diagree with this report?

i'll have to agree with you on this.

i'm on long term disability at the moment and the local health services have been great. the waiting list for hospital examinations are a joke though.
i have a lump on my neck and have been waiting 4 months for it to be checked in the hospital.
my cousin's kid had chest pains last week. she rang the hospital to arrange a chest x-ray. she was told that he would have to wait 4 weeks. when she asked about going private, she was given an appointment for this week.

New_Departure06

This report is 5 years out of date.

Dyr

julep wrote:

. when she asked about going private, she was given an appointment for this week.

Which is why theres a 4 week waiting list for xray's. Great country this :mad:

Lump

Dermington wrote:

Refer to my previous post.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Lump you animal...I hope you gave those scallywags a good thrashing for putting you in A&E.

It was a stray piece of glass from the bottle that the guy tried to break over my head It bounced off a high table and landed in my eye, all is well!

Rhyme

I find that report hard to believe, hospital stays for me have never been that bad and the sparse few times ive been in A&E werent as bad as the stories ive heard (then again 3 of my 5 A&E visits were a few minutes long as one was a heart problem one a burst lung and the last an arrow in my eye)...

Maybe im just shielded from the real mess...

*Shrug*

tj-music.com

Archeron wrote:

Just been listening to the reports on the radio that tell us that Ireland has the 2nd worst health service in Europe. (we're ahead of Lithuania, woohoo!)I must say that while there is obviously problems in the health service, this statistic is really shocking. I genuinley didnt think things were that bad.

Over the past couple of years, both my parents (whom are on medical cards) have needed a lot of medical help. My dad was treated brilliantly and really quickly throught the National Treatment Purchase Fund, and my mum gets a lot of help for her ongoing illness. Everyone who is involved is brilliant, and we couldnt ask to be dealing with nicer people. I have experienced bad A&E waits in the past, but I still fail to see how things are this bad overall. Perhaps I am one of the lucky ones??

How do you feel on this? Are you surprised at this ranking? Have you had good or bad experiences that make you agree/diagree with this report?

I am actually not surprised. I am a type I diabetic meaning I rely on insulin and thank god because I am a diabetic for 14 years I can tell a good service from a bad one.

From GPs to experts I got plenty of bad ones. Not informed but believing they had some authority I had to endure some "lovely lessons" from some muppets with a medical title.

Just one year ago I finally found a professor who deserves a lot of credit for knowing the score.

And there were other areas where I felt that I knew more about the topic than the doctor. It is quite frankly shocking if you are looking for help and advise and you feel you´re better off reading about it yourself.

michelle_ie

no i think the health service is absolutly terrible. i was in hospital in novemeber with meningitis and they didnt realise i was allergic to a drug even though one of the signs is really low blood pressure... i had an anapheltic shock could hardly breathe and they were saying this was normal, before a retired dr a friend of my fathers came in and told them otherwise and 6 hours after i couldnt move they got the antidote.. also a gynae doctor was evalutating me because i had cysts on my ovaries and she said i was fat... hmm so in turn to her comment became a tad bit addicted to getting skinny

janruary i was in again, pain in side it wasnt appendix so they thought hmm shes lying.... so i was on a drip for a week not allowed water or anything.. bowel was in spasm everything was inflammed in my stomach on a scan i also had a burst ovarian cyst but accordin to the doctor i was a young girl who didnt want to sit her leaving cert.

march:- had another ovarian cyst they said they would operate, they did and it got infected... they let me out too early had to come back in for a week because it got infected..

june:- again another cyst, another operation.... was ok that time they kind of did a good enough job

august:- in again with again queried appendix, they didnt scan me until 4 days later and found hmm oh i had a burst cyst on my ovaries, and my spleen was enlarged... it wasnt until i had a very high temperature they did another blood test and figured out i had gladular fever and an infection from the burst cyst,

october:- in again had a blockage in my bowel... there was no room in a+e so i was on the floor in a bundle holding up a drip.

october:- another time in, pain in side... had same dr i had in janruary horrible man said again i was lying, it was all in my head, even though my kidneys were inflammed and there were charts there saying about my past. i told him bout my eating disorder and he said well no wonder she has inflammed kidneys, ulcers etc its her own fault. my mother asked about a camera down my throat and he said whats the point, its her own doing. so he wrote on my chart that was physcologically disturbed and had me written up for dophine a drug inwhich i was allergic too and was stated in bright labels on the front of my chart. after that i discharged myself.. went to my GP and she gave me antibiotics in which i needed 2 doses to clear up a kidney and chest infection..

I have had terrible experiences with the health service like im traumatised... i refuse to go near the place now and thankfully i havent been sick that much since october and long may it continue..

abetarrush

Its ****in stupid, we hafta pay a weeks pay for most things, and the doctors and dentists don't even do their job

If you go to the doctor more than once a year u should get health insurance


Its probably work out cheaper to go to England to go the dentist
£5 for a visit! €70 over here

zuma

michelle_ie wrote:

no i think the health service is absolutly terrible. i was in hospital in novemeber with meningitis and they didnt realise i was allergic to a drug even though one of the signs is really low blood pressure... i had an anapheltic shock could hardly breathe and they were saying this was normal, before a retired dr a friend of my fathers came in and told them otherwise and 6 hours after i couldnt move they got the antidote.. also a gynae doctor was evalutating me because i had cysts on my ovaries and she said i was fat... hmm so in turn to her comment became a tad bit addicted to getting skinny

janruary i was in again, pain in side it wasnt appendix so they thought hmm shes lying.... so i was on a drip for a week not allowed water or anything.. bowel was in spasm everything was inflammed in my stomach on a scan i also had a burst ovarian cyst but accordin to the doctor i was a young girl who didnt want to sit her leaving cert.

march:- had another ovarian cyst they said they would operate, they did and it got infected... they let me out too early had to come back in for a week because it got infected..

june:- again another cyst, another operation.... was ok that time they kind of did a good enough job

august:- in again with again queried appendix, they didnt scan me until 4 days later and found hmm oh i had a burst cyst on my ovaries, and my spleen was enlarged... it wasnt until i had a very high temperature they did another blood test and figured out i had gladular fever and an infection from the burst cyst,

october:- in again had a blockage in my bowel... there was no room in a+e so i was on the floor in a bundle holding up a drip.

october:- another time in, pain in side... had same dr i had in janruary horrible man said again i was lying, it was all in my head, even though my kidneys were inflammed and there were charts there saying about my past. i told him bout my eating disorder and he said well no wonder she has inflammed kidneys, ulcers etc its her own fault. my mother asked about a camera down my throat and he said whats the point, its her own doing. so he wrote on my chart that was physcologically disturbed and had me written up for dophine a drug inwhich i was allergic too and was stated in bright labels on the front of my chart. after that i discharged myself.. went to my GP and she gave me antibiotics in which i needed 2 doses to clear up a kidney and chest infection..

I have had terrible experiences with the health service like im traumatised... i refuse to go near the place now and thankfully i havent been sick that much since october and long may it continue..

Damn they fcuked you over!

Everyones got their own story of incompetence...I blame it on the fact that the points are so bloody high for medicine, which means you only get people with photographic memory becoming doctors for the prestige and money with little time for their patients!

Its not going to get any better people with the graduate medicine courses being introduced.....bills of ~€100,000 waiting for you once you finish the course...no thank you!

Why was this Cap on medicine places originally brought in anyway?

Archeron

TJ-lusic.com and michelle ie. You both raise good points on something that has been concerning me for a while.

While I do believe in my own limited capcaity that the health service is not as bad as is being said in the media, I have had experience with specifically bad doctors. From what you say michelle ie, it appears that a lot of your trouble with the service was down to the fact that your doctor(s) was a a flipping idiot.
I myself have seen the unbelievable arrogance in some doctors and the way they do believe they are better than everybody else. On one occasion, I contacted my mums doctor as I believed he had her on wrong medication. He hurled abuse at me and asked how dare I question a doctor and hung up on me. It turned out I was right and he wrong. More recently, I have seen a family member be prescribed extremely dangerous medication in error because the doctor couldnt find his file, and just copied a hospital discharge prescription instead, which was completely different from the renewal prescription.

I do have the utmost respect for medical staff. They are after all the ones who do the most important jobs; saving the lives of our loved ones, but dare I put forward the idea that a lot of the problems could be down to idiocy and arrogance of certain doctors? Again, not tarring all with the same brush as most of the doctors I've met have been amazing people, but there is always the bad element. I think in the medical service, this just shines through more as it can adversely affect peoples lives in such a severe way.

You may get ripped by your mechanic, but eventually you'll forget and get over it. If you get screwed over by your doctor, there's a good chance you'll be remembering it for the rest of your life.

Kernel

zuma wrote:

Why was this Cap on medicine places originally brought in anyway?

Elitism.

Heard a funny story from my cousin who has CF. He told the doc he had CF and the doc asked him how long he had it!!

Lump

abetarrush wrote:

Its ****in stupid, we hafta pay a weeks pay for most things, and the doctors and dentists don't even do their job

If you go to the doctor more than once a year u should get health insurance


Its probably work out cheaper to go to England to go the dentist
£5 for a visit! €70 over here

If you can get an NHS dentist in the UK, which trust me is not easy! It's about £35 for a check up, yes things are a lot cheaper if you need treatment, so you save on that side of things. A filling is about £20.

michelle_ie

Archeron wrote:

You may get ripped by your mechanic, but eventually you'll forget and get over it. If you get screwed over by your doctor, there's a good chance you'll be remembering it for the rest of your life.

Thats exactly it.... i mean when i had to go into that hospital they made me feel so low.... and i even went to a person and she said i had post traumatic stress due to everything i was through in the hospital.
I actually hate the place, if someone i know is in hospital i tense up if i have to go see them.. ill never forget in all my life how that particular doctor treated me... i know i had alot of problems but i was not a physco and i definatly was not a lier.
I have made a promise that the next time im going into that hospital is when i have my first baby in like 9 years!!!!!!!!

DannyBoy.Lt

jor el wrote:

Not really. Ashamed of it yes, but surprised, no.

I guess the people in Lithuania get to wait outside in the cold for a hospital bed then, as it's hard to imagine any worse than lieing in a corrodor for days on end.

Wrong guess ... )).

P.s. Lithuania is in Russia? right????

Ponster

DannyBoy.Lt wrote:

P.s. Lithuania is in Russia? right????

The humour forum to 2 doors down to the left.

imangry29

Fortunately, I have had little need for the health service or my GP in my lifetime to date. This year however, for the first time, I was a patient in hospital and man, is it easy to see why we rank this low. Couple of things we all know. Nurses are fantastic, do an excellent job, actually with their hands, on their legs, during the night, at weekends. Similarly porters etc. FANTASTIC! I entered Mallow Hospital on a Bank Holiday Weekend, for monitoring only. Luckily it was all precautionary and nothing came of it. The nurses were excellent and resident doctors gave great care. Of course I waited until the Tuesday to see a consultant (not too bothered by that). He spent all of 1 minute with me, but in fairness, there was little wrong so again, fair enough. The problem I have comes with the follow-up appointment he scheduled for 6 weeks later. Within a week of hospital, I got a letter from the HSE with a date, time and location for follow-up. Great, in to the diary, sorted. Not so. 4 weeks on, I get a phonecall from the hospital asking if I want to see the consultant in the hospital or "in his rooms". In my naivety, I ask what's the difference. The difference is I will be guaranteed to see him in his rooms, provided I pay an extra €140 for the privilege of privately seeing a consultant employed by the tax-funded HSE!!!!!! WHAT?!? If I show up at the HOSPITAL at the APPOINTED TIME AND DATE, apparently there is no guarantee he will show up. What a joke! Why bother set up a follow-up appointment! Apparently he can only guarantee his "public" service to the highest bidders. What century are we in??? This enrages me. I am lucky to have the cash to afford this appointment, but what if I didn't have the money or if I was unemployed? This is a problem. Consultants who are supposed to be treating public patients are pocketing HUGE salaries while prioritising the well off in "private rooms". You are rotten, immoral scum for this. Second, the monster of administration in the HSE. Why was I even given an appointment if there is no guarantee of being seen? Surely the HSE could have saved on the pointless letter and told me cough up more money to get my appointment. Lets go with the Fine Gael plan, pay the greedy consultants only by the amount of (truly) public patients treated. Pay them well, yes, they are gifted with knowledge, but only pay them for the work they are supposed to do.

El Weirdo

New_Departure06 wrote: »

This report is 5 years out of date.

Make that 9 now.:pac:

Old thread is old.

Hank_Jones

2006 called, they want their thread back.

Also, use paragraphs in future.
That's like noise for the eyes.
I could read it, but I'm not going to try and wade through that.

Indubitable

At least we are not last.

Someone must not like the health-care system to find this thread

Tar.Aldarion

Oooh look at all the old posters

AARRRGH

My experience using non-private healthcare in Ireland is terrible. Absolutely terrible. Not only were they totally disinterested but they were incompetent.

So now I pay an expensive VHI membership and use the hotel that is the Beacon Hospital.

starbelgrade

3 pages into a thread about the Health Service & not one mention of Mary Harney's weight?

I'm actually quite impressed.

Tar.Aldarion

maybe she had it under control back then. AH was better back then etc etc

ninebeanrows

Not surprising the A&E in this country is 3rd world.

The staff are it must be said brilliant but you could be lying dead on a bed in an A&E in Ireland for 6 hours or more, it is actually up to your family to care for you for most of the time.

I was taken of oxegen and placed on a stretcher without a medical check in over 12 hours, caused my illness to be worsened greatly and further emergency medical procedures to be undertaken and an unnecessary 7 day stay in hospital.

wyndham

Where's Terry? Last post 19/04.

Biggins

As someone else said, "surprised?" No.
I know of far, far too many utter shocking experiences that have happened to my direct family alone besides many others in extended family, friends and neighbours.

Near 24 years in total under the hand of one party and they still haven't managed to do the fcukin' job right!
Come on you FF fan lunatics, kop on!

galwayrush

We're probably the worse relative to the money our twits in government spend on health.
but we do have some rather nice expensive artwork in out local hospital............................

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Weathercheck wrote: »

Not surprising the A&E in this country is 3rd world.

The staff are it must be said brilliant but you could be lying dead on a bed in an A&E in Ireland for 6 hours or more, it is actually up to your family to care for you for most of the time.

I was taken of oxegen and placed on a stretcher without a medical check in over 12 hours, caused my illness to be worsened greatly and further emergency medical procedures to be undertaken and an unnecessary 7 day stay in hospital.

Most staff are brilliant, but a lot of them are completely useless, especially that type or Irish nurse that has been working for 30+ years at her job, the uber bítch cow type. Pig ignorant.

Our system is a joke, you don't realise how shít it is here until you end up in hospital elsewhere in Europe, where they actually treat you...

I've been lucky enough to only need the hospital a couple of times nd no complaints..