Apprenticeship @ 24?

the_syco

Having done the IT route, and ended up in doing full-time in a cinema, I'm looking into doing an electrical apprenticeship. My reasons for this is that it seems the most intresting of all the apprenticeships out there (I like fixing/building stuff), I know what it involves, but I'm worried that my age will go against me, as most of the lads trying to get an apprenticeship are 17 or 18.

Or will it? If anyone started an apprenticeship around my age, did you get much resistance, or did age come into it at all?

Oh, and I'll be mainly looking for somewhere in the West Dublin/East Kildare region, as the money of 1st year apprenticeship is too low to move out, but if I can get to it, I'll do it.

Dr. Bill 2

Were you in DCU then!

Jack_Bauer

If you are going to do it, try and get into a big company like intel or any of the pharmaceutical companies. they would appreciate the IT experience more than a regular Electrician involved in domestic work. (would be more interesting as well)

cargrouch

Jack_Bauer wrote:

If you are going to do it, try and get into a big company like intel or any of the pharmaceutical companies. they would appreciate the IT experience more than a regular Electrician involved in domestic work. (would be more interesting as well)

I like this advice. A company like this might appreciate the maturity you would bring to the job too.

Another suggestion I would have (and your IT experience would benefit you here too) would be to try to get into industrial control type work. PLC's are programmable logic controllers and are used in industrial control. An IT background would give you a headstart with programming these. There must be courses out there for this? Gotta go. meeting time.

newestUser

the_syco wrote:

Having done the IT route, and ended up in doing full-time in a cinema

How'd that happen? Not being judgmental, just curious. Did you not like IT work, were you not able to get work? Slightly off topic, I know...

WRT your actual problem, as far as I'm concerned getting a job is more about how you sell yourself than ticking an imaginary set of boxes. Being 24 mightn't be a problem in many peoples eyes. People get too hung up about not being a 100% perfect candidate for a position. Often, the criteria they judge themselves by are a million miles away from the thoughts of people who are hiring...

...that said, I know jack about electrical apprenticeships and the like

the_syco

newestUser wrote:

How'd that happen? Not being judgmental, just curious. Did you not like IT work, were you not able to get work? Slightly off topic, I know...

Couldn't get a job. Sent CV off everywhere, even to a few "data jobs" (even though I'd prefer tech support), but no luck Don't want to be stuck in the cinema for ever, on minimum wage.

newestUser

the_syco wrote:

Couldn't get a job. Sent CV off everywhere, even to a few "data jobs" (even though I'd prefer tech support), but no luck Don't want to be stuck in the cinema for ever, on minimum wage.

What's a data job?

What kind of qualifications do you have for an IT job?

Could you even be arsed to answer these questions, because you don't want an IT job anymore?

the_syco

newestUser wrote:

What's a data job?

What kind of qualifications do you have for an IT job?

Could you even be arsed to answer these questions, because you don't want an IT job anymore?

I'd consider a "data job" one of those mind numbingly boring jobs where you'd just enter data alll day long. Not my cup of tea, but I'd take it.

Qualifcations? Not much City & Guilds MS Office (although a bit old by now), a cert in IT from a PLC course, and a CompTIA A+ cert (which I did last year). Studying for a CompTIA Network+ cert @ the mo.

Its not a case of "don't want an IT job", but more of a case of "sent off loads of CV's, got few replies, and any interview I've gone to, they find someone with 'more experience'".

And yes, I'm still looking, but after 3 years of looking, and getting nowhere, I think it may be time to change my career plans.

newestUser

the_syco wrote:

I'd consider a "data job" one of those mind numbingly boring jobs where you'd just enter data alll day long. Not my cup of tea, but I'd take it.

Qualifcations? Not much City & Guilds MS Office (although a bit old by now), a cert in IT from a PLC course, and a CompTIA A+ cert (which I did last year). Studying for a CompTIA Network+ cert @ the mo.

Its not a case of "don't want an IT job", but more of a case of "sent off loads of CV's, got few replies, and any interview I've gone to, they find someone with 'more experience'".

And yes, I'm still looking, but after 3 years of looking, and getting nowhere, I think it may be time to change my career plans.

Fair enough. Tech support/network admin isn't really my specialty, so I'm not in a position to give advice on that. I would say however that you should be careful that you haven't been making mistakes in job-searching that you're going to make in a new field, in which case your "fresh start" turns into "same old story".

nesf

the_syco wrote:

I'd consider a "data job" one of those mind numbingly boring jobs where you'd just enter data alll day long. Not my cup of tea, but I'd take it.

Qualifcations? Not much City & Guilds MS Office (although a bit old by now), a cert in IT from a PLC course, and a CompTIA A+ cert (which I did last year). Studying for a CompTIA Network+ cert @ the mo.

Its not a case of "don't want an IT job", but more of a case of "sent off loads of CV's, got few replies, and any interview I've gone to, they find someone with 'more experience'".

And yes, I'm still looking, but after 3 years of looking, and getting nowhere, I think it may be time to change my career plans.

Could it be that you need to change the way you write your CVs rather than your qualifications themselves? (It's possible)

To your original question, the only thing that could count against you is that an employer might think that you wouldn't be willing to work for the low wages that an apprentice generally earns because of your age etc. This is something that you could get around quite easily by making sure any CVs you send in and interviews you do convince them that this is not the case, imho. Showing eagerness to get into the profession could also help.

Sparky

the_syco wrote:

Having done the IT route, and ended up in doing full-time in a cinema, I'm looking into doing an electrical apprenticeship. My reasons for this is that it seems the most intresting of all the apprenticeships out there (I like fixing/building stuff), I know what it involves, but I'm worried that my age will go against me, as most of the lads trying to get an apprenticeship are 17 or 18.

Or will it? If anyone started an apprenticeship around my age, did you get much resistance, or did age come into it at all?

Oh, and I'll be mainly looking for somewhere in the West Dublin/East Kildare region, as the money of 1st year apprenticeship is too low to move out, but if I can get to it, I'll do it.

Well I'm a nearly qualified apprentice sparks and I started at 16. But lucky for me I was in a family business, so the employment end of things was sorted.
As far as I took it, I was the youngest of all the lads.
Infact you at 24 is a decent age to be in at. Ive trained with many lads 24 and up, some even as old as 32, married with kids.

In my experience as I was young, I did feel left out. After a day at a training centre we would go out for a drink. At 16-17 it was pretty hard not for me to get noticed as I look very young.

Anyways if you do intend on starting up your training make sure you have an employer and then register yourself with FAS.
FAS do a 7 phase training system
Phase 2 is the longest, being 20 weeks in a FAS training center
Phase 4 and 6 are in IT's around the country, and are 10 weeks each
Phase 1,3,5 and 7 are with your employer and vary on waiting list times. I found myself a year waiting to get into phase 4.

The underlying thing is your age has nothing really to do with things, infact I'm pretty sure most companies would rather take on a 24 year old mature worker, rather than someone young.

BTW, you will be doing a sh1t load of electronics and PLC's in phase 4 and 6.

Go for it, you will be grand.

If you have anymore questions, don't be afraid to ask.

Fas wages are as follows (for the moment anyway)

Phase 2 €229.71
Phase 4 €344.76
Phase 6 €498.03
4th Year €612.69

Sparky

the_syco wrote:

Couldn't get a job. Sent CV off everywhere, even to a few "data jobs" (even though I'd prefer tech support), but no luck Don't want to be stuck in the cinema for ever, on minimum wage.

Did you try Digiweb?

Mr Magnolia

Your age won't be a factor at all, it would be advantageous if anything IMO, reason being that you are less likely to monday-miss, pull sickies, etc as you would be more mature than the average 17-18yr old.

There is a lot of work for Instrument Technicians at the minute, with all the Pharmaceutical investment in the country. The rates are the same as an Electrician while you're an apprentice, but when you qualify, depending on what you want to do, you can earn considerably more.

Let me know if you want more details. I could also give you the names of some companies that would possibly be looking for apprentices.

Phase 2 €229.71
Phase 4 €344.76
Phase 6 €498.03
4th Year €612.69

Some companies will also pay 'Country Money' or 'Expenses' which is around €150/week tax free. This would help you while you're on the low rates.

Noelie

Yeah i know a guy he's 27 and just starting an Apprenticeship.

Does anyone else think we're going to have an awful lot of electrical App's soon, I was in DIT kevin St and there seemed to be a never ending line of them going through the college. When you ask an apprentice what they do it's nearly always Electrical, I'd be interested to know the %'s for each trade.

Roy16

I'm in the same situation as you working in IT, doing tech support. I'm slightly older then 24, but for the past 6months I’ve been thinking about getting an apprenticeship in plumbing. The problem is taking that big pay cut in wages, but I know in the long run it will be well worth it. I know of people who have left good jobs in IT and gone and got apprenticeship in plumbing, painting and as a plaster. I think it must the IT industry itself; you won’t really make any money in IT unless you go into networking or programming.

Anyways I don’t think you’re too old for it and id say start looking, i started looking on www.fas.ie last week, but have found none so far, but my gut feeling is im going to do it.

Mr Magnolia

Roy16 wrote:

i started looking on www.fas.ie last week, but have found none so far, but my gut feeling is im going to do it.

FAS is fine, but if you want an apprenticeship you need to start knocking office doors, CV in hand and tell people/contractors why they should employ you.

BTW, anyone that does start an apprenticeship needs to make sure that your employer registers ye more or less straight away, as your finish date will be pushed out depending on your start date. Your apprenticeship doesn't start when your employed, it's starts when you're registered with FAS.

Good luck with the job hunting.

Guy:Incognito

the_syco wrote:

Having done the IT route, and ended up in doing full-time in a cinema, I'm looking into doing an electrical apprenticeship. My reasons for this is that it seems the most intresting of all the apprenticeships out there (I like fixing/building stuff), I know what it involves, but I'm worried that my age will go against me, as most of the lads trying to get an apprenticeship are 17 or 18.

Or will it? If anyone started an apprenticeship around my age, did you get much resistance, or did age come into it at all?

Oh, and I'll be mainly looking for somewhere in the West Dublin/East Kildare region, as the money of 1st year apprenticeship is too low to move out, but if I can get to it, I'll do it.

I hope it's not too old because I've just started a plumbing apprenticship at 25. Been in sales the last few years and gone for a complete change of direction. Probably would'nt have gone this route only my dad and my uncle (his Plumbing & heating company) are plumbers and the subject turned to work in the pub one night a coupe of months ago. He said he'd give me a start so I just went for it.

C Fodder

With your background an apprenticeship in Instrumentation would be a better idea or if you really want to do electrical do an Electrical and Instrumentation apprenticeship. Loads of work in your part of the country plus I will pm details of a company who take on apprentices in this field in your neck of the woods ( be prepared to travel during your apprenticeship with any company). I believe that at either 23 or 25 the apprentice rates change for the better even for first years.

P.S. instrumentation pays very slightly better than electrical.

deisemum

Don't worry about your age. My hubby has taken on a 26/27 year old and 17 year old apprentice and the advantages of the older apprentice are obvious. He's got life experience and can see what needs to be done compared to the younger lad who's not long out of school and has to be supervised a lot more.

cargrouch

Sparky-s wrote:

Fas wages are as follows (for the moment anyway)

Phase 2 €229.71
Phase 4 €344.76
Phase 6 €498.03
4th Year €612.69

Thanks for that Sparky, will be using these figures whenever somebody asks me about wages as an electronic engineer. By phase 6 an apprentice will be doing better (without any foxers) than an electronic engineer just after graduating. By fourth year you will be doing better than an electronic engineer with a 4yr degree + 2years experience.
I know what most sparks opinion of electrical engineers is, but electronic engineers actually do stuff;)

theAwakening

You'll have no prob with your age. Im an apprentice carpenter and have worked with someone who only started off at 29 yrs old. As mentioned before the wage is 220 for the 1st year sparks. fcukin dog rough.

oulu

My nephew was 23 when he started his, he progress really quicker than the others who where 17-19 yrs old. More cop on and such now quailfied no regretts

the_syco

theAwakening wrote:

As mentioned before the wage is 220 for the 1st year sparks. fcukin dog rough.

Well, considering I get about €300 a week from the current job, full time, it ain't much of a drop. Also, it'll go up. A few lads in the current job have been there for 2 or 3 years, and are still on the same sh|t.

shoegirl

the_syco wrote:

I'd consider a "data job" one of those mind numbingly boring jobs where you'd just enter data alll day long. Not my cup of tea, but I'd take it.

Qualifcations? Not much City & Guilds MS Office (although a bit old by now), a cert in IT from a PLC course, and a CompTIA A+ cert (which I did last year). Studying for a CompTIA Network+ cert @ the mo.

Its not a case of "don't want an IT job", but more of a case of "sent off loads of CV's, got few replies, and any interview I've gone to, they find someone with 'more experience'".

And yes, I'm still looking, but after 3 years of looking, and getting nowhere, I think it may be time to change my career plans.

Tech support is much more based on experience than qualifications, though I'm surprised you got nothing. If its any consolation, my brother wasn't able to get any IT work with an IT degree - he ended up one year in a petrol station and then 1 year hiring out cars. He managed to get an IT related tole in the second company but the pay was pitiful. Most IT support jobs now seem to be either going to people with a few year of experience, though often little qualifications, or else college graduates with degrees - although a lot of college IT grads are pretty clueless (IT these days is the new Arts degree).

newestUser

shoegirl wrote:

Tech support is much more based on experience than qualifications, though I'm surprised you got nothing. If its any consolation, my brother wasn't able to get any IT work with an IT degree - he ended up one year in a petrol station and then 1 year hiring out cars. He managed to get an IT related tole in the second company but the pay was pitiful. Most IT support jobs now seem to be either going to people with a few year of experience, though often little qualifications, or else college graduates with degrees - although a lot of college IT grads are pretty clueless (IT these days is the new Arts degree).

Dunno about IT being the new Arts degree. The IT jobs market is not as bad as it was 5 years ago, the last time I was looking for a job was 2 years ago, and I got myself sorted out (am now doing a PhD, but had "proper" job offers as well). The experiences that people were having 3/4 years ago aren't as universal now.

The jobs market for IT grads has been unforgiving during the last 5 years, but at least it seems to be improving.

TempestSabre

Yeah. Its not great at the bottom of the rung, but its better than it was a few years back.

noel123ie

Hi all.

Looking for a bit of advice, I work part time and run a small business. I reckon personally putting too much time into IT course be it Microsoft, cisco, diplomas etc is a waste for me as to get on in IT you really need to travel to the likes of Dublin etc which I am not willing to do.

I was thinking of doing an electricians apprenticeship as i could work in Cork which means alot to me.

Also I could continue in the business part time and make a few pound from that as I know the moneis are bad until you qualify or can do foxers.

I also have a bit saved so could access this as needed.

Im 32 though and will take a while to make up my mind. Would it be dificult to get an apprentaship at my age. I am looking to get a job maybe as an electricain in one of the factories around the harbour. is there a special course I need to do?

What ye reckon?

Noel

gibbon75

I'm 30 and I'm thinking about the same as the_syco.

But this is waht I've found on the fas website:

"You may qualify if you are over 25 years of age, have had a minimum of 3 years work experience relevant to your chosen occupation and are successful at an assessment interview."

Anybody knows what's the deal with this?

TempestSabre

FAS is not allowed to discriminate over age. Its probabaly out of date information. Just ring them and ask them. Where on the website is it?

Revalco

All this talk of every1 diving into apprenticeships and not getting IT jobs, is it wise to pursue a career in IT at all???

gibbon75

TempestSabre wrote:

FAS is not allowed to discriminate over age. Its probabaly out of date information. Just ring them and ask them. Where on the website is it?

http://www.fas.ie/services_to_jobseekers/apprenticeship.html

colincarnate

Revalco wrote:

All this talk of every1 diving into apprenticeships and not getting IT jobs, is it wise to pursue a career in IT at all???

yes, IT Support which is 90% of 'IT' - is so sh*te, we're the 'cleaners' of the corporate ladder, catering for the whims of people, most of whom have mental problems - there i said it, most people who call the helpdesk have mental issues... back to topic - where can i sign up for a normal job....

TempestSabre

colincarnate wrote:

yes, IT Support which is 90% of 'IT' - is so sh*te, we're the 'cleaners' of the corporate ladder, catering for the whims of people, most of whom have mental problems - there i said it, most people who call the helpdesk have mental issues... back to topic - where can i sign up for a normal job....

In fairness if you've a lot of calls on a support desk theres a problem with what your supporting or its being used by the wrong people. Lots of support is a indicator that theres a problem.

the_syco

gibbon75 wrote:

"You may qualify if you are over 25 years of age, have had a minimum of 3 years work experience relevant to your chosen occupation and are successful at an assessment interview."

Anybody knows what's the deal with this?

Fas.ie wrote:

In order for an employer to register you as an apprentice you must be at least 16 years old and have at least a grade D in any 5 subjects in the Junior Certificate (or equivalent grades in other approved examinations).

If you do not meet the educational requirement there are other ways in which it is possible to qualify for a job as an apprentice.

You can satisfactorily complete a preparatory training course approved by FÁS and be successful at an assessment interview.

You may qualify if you are over 25 years of age, have had a minimum of 3 years work experience relevant to your chosen occupation and are successful at an assessment interview.

The bits bolded explain that if you don't have 5 passes in Your JC, you can get in by being over 25, etc.

TempestSabre wrote:

In fairness if you've a lot of calls on a support desk theres a problem with what your supporting or its being used by the wrong people. Lots of support is a indicator that theres a problem.

Yes. Everyone given a PC should have done at least the ECDL course. Not plugging in any cables (not even power) for a wireless PC:rolleyes: etc. The people ringing us are mainly PC illiterate, tbh.

gibbon75

But if you don't have 3 years of work experience in your chosen field?
For me this means that you don't qualify for apprenticeship...

nesf

gibbon75 wrote:

But if you don't have 3 years of work experience in your chosen field?
For me this means that you don't qualify for apprenticeship...

I think it's a get-around for people who don't hold a junior cert.

TempestSabre

the_syco wrote:

...
Yes. Everyone given a PC should have done at least the ECDL course. Not plugging in any cables (not even power) for a wireless PC:rolleyes: etc. The people ringing us are mainly PC illiterate, tbh.

Pedantic I know, but its not a wireless PC. Its a PC with wireless network connection. A laptop is the nearest thing to a wireless personal computer, or a PDA. Everyone hired to work on a PC should be qualified and have a minimum of intelligence. You'd think that would be a given...

colincarnate

personally i don't even mind if someone is pc illiterate or whatever, it's when they get thick with you, your job then turns into customer service and you have to mop up their sh*te

IT is strange, on teh whole u deal with problems which are solved with reboots and unknown type fixes even to the fixer - not satisfying. problem after problem, there's no start - middle - and end... it's all middle

knipex

I was almost your age when I started my apprenticeship.

Age didnt go against me it worked for me. Instrumentation is a nice field. I served my time in a factory on machines, production lines, HVAC, computer networks, machine instalations, robotics etc. My company paid for me to all the night courses I wanted to do.

Finished my apprenticeship and had 9 job offers within a week. All paying substantially over union rate.

I never regretted it for a second. If you are willing to travel a field service job can be very interesting and well paid.

TempestSabre

colincarnate wrote:

personally i don't even mind if someone is pc illiterate or whatever, it's when they get thick with you, your job then turns into customer service and you have to mop up their sh*te

IT is strange, on teh whole u deal with problems which are solved with reboots and unknown type fixes even to the fixer - not satisfying. problem after problem, there's no start - middle - and end... it's all middle

Theres a problem with your system if support calls are not resolved. They should feed back into system to eliminate those calls. Its a thankless task. But it should not be endless.

gibbon75

By the way how does the apprenticeship timetable look like?
Does it start in September-October like any other school thing?
Do you work in the summer too?

knipex

Apprenticeship can start any time of the year. I started in January.

Its a job not school so you get the standard holiday allowance (20 days or what ever). When you can take them depends from place to place.

It is normally structured as follows.

6 months on the job. (probably making tea, pulling cables or labouring just so you get an idea of what the job entails)

22 weeks in Fas doing a combination of class work and practical training. (about 50:50) end with exams

on the job for about a year perhaps a little less.

11 weeks in an RTC where its more class work with some practical (about 85%-90% theory) followed by exams.

back on the job you should be usefull at this stage and doing work on your own.

11 weeks in an RTC more theory and more exams with some practical thrown in.

Back on the job untill you have 4 years done.

You cannot take holidays during your "off the job" phases.

The exams are not a joke. 24 of us started in FAS only 4 passed first time. Theroy killed alot of guys. If you are not any good at maths forget it. It takes a minimum of 4 years but may take more if you fail exams and have to repeat. You employer has to sign off on your level of skill before you can progress to an off the job phase.

gibbon75

Thanks knipex,excellent infos

So when you have to visit the RTC,you have to find a place to live there?
Or how does this work?
I'm interested in toolmaking,but the nearest place to me to study this (by the FAS website) is in Tralee.

jackbauerisgod

C Fodder wrote:

With your background an apprenticeship in Instrumentation would be a better idea or if you really want to do electrical do an Electrical and Instrumentation apprenticeship. Loads of work in your part of the country plus I will pm details of a company who take on apprentices in this field in your neck of the woods ( be prepared to travel during your apprenticeship with any company). I believe that at either 23 or 25 the apprentice rates change for the better even for first years.

P.S. instrumentation pays very slightly better than electrical.

Can you forward me a list of the companies as well? Cheers

Mr Magnolia

knipex wrote:

The exams are not a joke. 24 of us started in FAS only 4 passed first time. Theroy killed alot of guys. If you are not any good at maths forget it.

Or be prepared to work hard, possibly get grinds, don't write it all off because your maths might not be brilliant.

nesf

Sparks400 wrote:

Or be prepared to work hard, possibly get grinds, don't write it all off because your maths might not be brilliant.

Aye, maths is one of those subjects that rewards hard work well. If you are willing to make the effort then there should be nothing on the FAS exams that should trouble the majority of people.

KoopaTroopa

I'd like to warn anyone who's thinking of doing I.T. - the college work is a bitch. You need to be patient,mature and hard-working. Unlike me. I dropped out.
I was thinking of an apprenticeship but it's a big commitment and I suck at maths. Maths is another problem for anyone who wants to do I.T.

gibbon75

gibbon75 wrote:

Thanks knipex,excellent infos

So when you have to visit the RTC,you have to find a place to live there?
Or how does this work?
I'm interested in toolmaking,but the nearest place to me to study this (by the FAS website) is in Tralee.

Could anyone advise on this one?
Cheers!

noel123ie

bump

the_syco

gibbon75 wrote:

Thanks knipex,excellent infos

So when you have to visit the RTC,you have to find a place to live there?
Or how does this work?
I'm interested in toolmaking,but the nearest place to me to study this (by the FAS website) is in Tralee.

You don't have to live near the RTC. You just need to get into the RTC everyday. Some move there, some travel by bus or car.

gibbon75

Yes,but try to drive from Cork to Tralee twice a day...:(