Squating

EPO_MAN

quick query on squating

I use the smith machine in the gym to squat and I go all the way down till my ass in at my heels (thereabouts) but most of the other guys go down only till their ass is level with their knees.

my query is what's the difference - results-wise?
and who's the winner?

newby.204

EPO_MAN wrote:

quick query on squating

I use the smith machine in the gym to squat and I go all the way down till my ass in at my heels (thereabouts) but most of the other guys go down only till their ass is level with their knees.

my query is what's the difference - results-wise?
and who's the winner?

You can damage your knees if you go past a 90deg angle, ie the angle between your ankle and hamstring is less than 90deg

0utshined

There's no such thing as winning in the gym, you're there to train and should only be competing against yourself.

That said it sounds like they're sacrificing form to carry more weight. The insertion point at the hip should be level with or below the top of the knee for it to be a full rep.

Just re-read your post actually and see you mention this is on a Smith Machine. I've never used one of those so I don't know how they're meant to work, I'm talking about free weights here.

poobum

smith machine isnt as gud...but the technique is the same! you dont have to touch ur ass off ur heels by any means! you go until the top of you leg is parallel with ground dats it! any furthur can be potentialy damaging to knees:)

yomchi

For real results in squatting, drop the smith machine and use free weights. The smith machine locks you into a fixed position which takes all the stabilising muscles out of play. The beauty of a compound exercise like the squat is that it works nearly ever muscle in your legs and lower back and abs, the smith machine erradicates this over all effect.

g'em

Jon wrote:

For real results in squatting, drop the smith machine and use free weights. The smith machine locks you into a fixed position which takes all the stabilising muscles out of play. The beauty of a compound exercise like the squat is that it works nearly ever muscle in your legs and lower back and abs, the smith machine erradicates this over all effect.

exactly. The smith machine is a brilliant towel rack, but that's really where its effectiveness ends in the gym. Ok, its handy for calf raises but that's really it..

Going ATG (ass to grass) is a huge strength builder for your legs and you'll find that most people who use this full range of movement have legs that are functionally a lot more powerful. At minimum the ass should come below parallel to the ground, anything higher and its a partial squat.

As with any of these exercises what you're really trying to do is build your strength in a range of movement that most closely mirrors 'real-life' lifting, and a full squat is just that. If executed properly it will not damage your knees. You will need to drop the weight right down if you plan to try them though- leave the ego behind, strip the bar and get used to it first.

Dragan

What does peoples knees in is not activating the right muscle chain as they come back up, they begin to push from the feet instead of activating through the glutes.

Usually.

daveirl

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Patto

I never thought of using the smith machine for calf raises. Good one, thanks guys.

I've just began doing ATG squats in the club gym. It is frowned upon to go below parallel in our club probably because some senior club member beyond reproach has deemed ATG unsafe based on God knows. From my own limited research based on talking to people propperly qualified in the field, a bit of web reasearch and a few previous debates on this forum I would have no probelm with doing the ATG squat. After all it is a completely natural movement, watch a toddler or a young child pick something off the ground, they will never bend over to pick it up they will ATG squat. You don't see the parents berating the child for going below parallel do you:p As we get older our legs tighten up and it becomes less comfortable.

If you have tight calves put a block under your heels and remeber to look up at all times this made the whole ATG concept possible for me. Plus I had a good teacher.

g'em

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

that's quite a decent article actually, nice one dave (shock horror, it has references to real scientific journals, me likey!!!!)

I'm not a huge fan of the man, but as Charles Poliquin said (and I'm paraphrasing slightly, can't find linkage to the actual quote) "if we shouldn't put our knees over our toes, we'd never be able to walk up a flight of stairs"

g'em

Patto wrote:

After all it is a completely natural movement, watch a toddler or a young child pick something off the ground, they will never bend over to pick it up they will ATG squat. You don't see the parents berating the child for going below parallel do you:p As we get older our legs tighten up and it becomes less comfortable.

have you been reading t-nation too????

Patto

Is that where I read it?

I suppose I've started paying more attention to yound children recently also, seems as I'm going to have one of my own in a few weeks.

t-ha

Patto wrote:

Is that where I read it?

I suppose I've started paying more attention to yound children recently also, seems as I'm going to have one of my own in a few weeks.

Hey congrats!


Also, as someone who God saw fit to give the world's crappiest joints, with general hypermobility, I can say that my time doing ATG squats has been the happiest, most injury free time for my knees ever. They feel stronger than ever now. I don't always do them, but certaintly I count anything that doesn't break parallel as a partial, not a squat. If you're going to load up your spine with heavy weights - you may as well realise some actual benefits from the exercise. Loading up too much weight and doing quarter-squats is compressing your spine for nothing basically.

EPO_MAN

0utshined wrote:

There's no such thing as winning in the gym, you're there to train and should only be competing against yourself.

if you can perv the cute women without get stung - then you win!!!


seriously though I was joking...

EPO_MAN

Jon wrote:

For real results in squatting, drop the smith machine and use free weights. The smith machine locks you into a fixed position which takes all the stabilising muscles out of play. The beauty of a compound exercise like the squat is that it works nearly ever muscle in your legs and lower back and abs, the smith machine erradicates this over all effect.

indeed. with any thing over 40kg on the bar I find it difficult to get "in position" to squat...my gym doesn't hav emuch in the way of benching if you're not on the smith machine...and I am a real loner in the gym...it's easier to train..IMO

perhaps I shall drop the weight and to real squats for a while and see about being better able to manage the bar..etc...I keep ye posted.

Thanks

Transform

Full squats without question - i have tight calves from years of sprinting, basketball etc so use plates or mat under heels.

The poliquin seminar opened my eyes to the below parallel myth and i have spent the last 2-3 months building it back up to 100kg 6reps for 4-5sets. My legs have gone up by 1.5inches in this time and i find with clients a 'half squat' over time overdeveloped the lateral side of the quads (especially in women) and brough on hip and IT band problems.

Overall though most people use machines, bench press and curl through their workout and i have seen better legs hanging out of a nest!!!!

Will you get in great shape without squats/deadlifts - no!!!

So before you suck another protein drink after your workout thinking you are did a good session ask yourself do i really know squat?