Radio frequency

shortys94

Hello

I live Between Claremorris and Knock in Mayo and have recently applied for a phone line in a log cabin. The eircom staff were very fast in arriving at the house within a week or so, upon doing so they decided to beam the phone line wirelessly from Knock airport as the house is in the line of site, I have never heard of this before, wireless phoneline.

Anyway why cant eircom just use this technique for broadband, instead of using lines just install wireless systems at the exchanges and this may give a wider field of the service from the exchange.

I know IBB and other companies provide wireless broadband but would it not suit eircom to do this, was just asking as I have tried desperately to find any broadband service in my area but to no avail, instead I am reduced to €100 euro a month broadband satellite, 512 down and 128 up with Digiweb.... The money is beginning to make a big hole in pockets.

bushy...

They use the wireless phone system in a few places, eg. theres a valley in Kerry (can' t think of name of it atm) that needed to remain "unspoilt" by poles etc .. don't think the service was great though. Eircom do/did provide wireless broadband at half a meg but needed plenty of maintenence ( water ingress/damage ).

oscarBravo

They do offer "broadband" from their FWA sites, but the install cost is obscene, the monthly cost is ridiculous and the upload speed is 64k.

shortys94

whats the highest download speed they offer over this? and price

Gone West

shortys94 wrote:

whats the highest download speed they offer over this? and price

its ridiculous.
Akin to having a leased line. Well over what youre paying for your sat

murrayj

If you are already getting the Eircom wireless phone service from, then I would strongly recommend that you opt for the Eircom FWA wireless Broadband service also. It uses the same network as their wireless phone service, so you are almost guaranteed to be able to get coverage if your phone is already working.

If you are in such an isolated area that you are getting wireless phone service, then it is very unlikely you will ever get DSL or cable options. It is also very unlikely that any alternative operator will ever build infrastructure near you, as they tend to cherry-pick the profitable areas. eircom has a Universal Service Obligation to provide the phone service - which is why they have built a wireless network in these places - even though it probably loses money for them.

Contrary to previous poster, the eircom FWA service is way better value than Digiweb satellite. It is only €45 per month compared to €99 per month for entry-level Digiweb (ex VAT). eircom is also a much better service because you don't have the latency problems associated with satellite. The download channel is 512k. The only disadvantage is that the upload channel is only 64k. However, I would bet you would still find this better than 128k on satellite because of the latency improvement. Also less likely to experience contention than on satellite, and eircom don't have any download limits, and unlike other Wireless operators, they are only using wireless in very rural areas where it won't get overloaded.

The only other issue is that you have probably wasted €1,200 or so on your Digiweb install, and the eircom FWA install will now set you back around €700. However, you might be able to shift the satellite kit on e-bay.

A friend of mine is using eircom FWA wireless Broadband in a rural area - very happy with it. You need to root around on their web-site to find details. It is not listed as a residential service - you can find it in the business broadband section on the eircom web-site.

shortys94

Do you have any idea where it is located on their site, sorry im just not familiar with it.

Sponge Bob

Its €700 install and €50 a month for 512/64 .

Its 3.5Ghz wireless They will most likely refuse to install it citing 'difficulties' It is indeed better and cheaper than satellite . Westnet.ie have Charleston covered with some decent wireless gear at a far lower cost (install and monthly) if you are north of Knock.

Is your box in the cabin an Alvarion brand or an Airspan brand by the way ???

Its in the eircom site in alternative BB options mixed in with satellite and you email them for a test.

Sponge Bob

and here is the secret Comreg map of these eircom 3.5Ghz wireless base stations

murrayj

It is quite hard to find on the eircom web-site. They clearly don't encourage this except for people who can't get normal DSL.

www.eircom.ie
Go to the "business site" on the top menu
Select "Product & Service A-Z" from the side menu
Select "Fixed Wireless Access..." under Products starting with "F"

Sponge Bob

murrayj wrote:

They clearly don't encourage this

Full Stop

Its €730 install and €55 a month, sorry about that.

eircom fixed wireless access (FWA) packet broadband

eircom fixed wireless access (FWA) packet delivers broadband Internet speeds to people in areas outside DSL coverage and also to people within DSL enabled areas, using FWA packet technology. 33% of the population can avail of this technology.

Unlike DSL, eircom fixed wireless access does not use the copper lines of your telephone to connect you to the Internet. Instead, your modem connects to an external antenna at your premises. This uses a radio channel to link into a base station, and then to the Internet.

By using a wireless connection, you can access a broadband connection up to 15km from the base station. This is a greater distance than DSL broadband can reach. However, there must be an unobstructed line of sight between the antenna at your premises and the base station.
How much does it cost?

Product Speed Download allowance Support Number Connection Rental
FWA Packet 512k download / 64k upload Unlimited. 1890 457 048.** € 732.05 (inc. VAT) / € 605 (ex. VAT). € 54.45 (inc. VAT) / €45 (ex. VAT).
** Calls charged at local call rate. Minimum charge of 6.35c (inc. VAT) eircom fixed wireless access frequently asked questions.
eircom fixed wireless access frequently asked questions

Q1. How much is the connection fee (once off charge) and what does it cover?

You pay a once-off connection of €732.05 (inc. VAT) / €605 (ex. VAT). This covers the cost of the modem, antenna and full technician installation.

Q2. How much are my monthly costs?

Prices start at €54.45 (inc. VAT) / €45 (ex. VAT).

Q3.What operating system supports fixed wireless access?

We recommend Microsoft Windows 2000 upwards or Macintosh OS X.

Q4. Are there any upload / download limits?

No, there are no upload or download limits as the product is unlimited.

Q5. What speeds will I get?

You get upstream of up to 64k (64 kilobits per second). You get download speeds of 512k (512 kilobits per second).

Q6. What is the maximum distance from the Antenna to the FWA modem?

The maximum distance from antenna to modem is 30 meters. Given this limit, and assuming 10 meters for internal wiring, the max antenna height will be less than 20 meters. 20 meters is rarely used but can be achieved.

Q7. How big is the antenna?

The antenna dimensions are: Length - 22cm, Height - 22cm, Depth 15cm.

Q8. How do I find out if my home is suitable for eircom fixed wireless access?

Contact eircom 1800 503 303 - Your details will be captured and we will perform a desk survey. If your premises is suitable, we will place your order. If your premises is not suitable, we will contact you with the next alternative - eircom broadband satellite.

A site survey is required for any premises requesting eircom fixed wireless access. Our technicians need to assess your premises and check if it is suitable for the modem and the antenna.

Q9. When I order, how soon does this arrive?

When you place your order, the lead-time will be 28 days.

Q10. How long do I have to sign up for?

You need to sign up for a minimum of 12 months.
How do I order?

Call us for FREE on 1800 503 303.

or

1890 457 048.

They claim 63 locations and the map shows about 63 locations . Its not available at all from most of them though. You should ring up for the crack and compare excuses in here

Funny they mention homes in the business section too.

shortys94

Not sure whether Id be near enough to get it, certainly is cheaper, Im paying 120 euro inc vat a month for mine, I dont know what box is in cabin, if you mean for the telephone, it hasnt been installed yet, they are still trying to figure out where to drill a hole in cabin :P

anyway do you need a phone line for this service, thanks for help sponge bob, really appreciate it, if you know of any other services that would be great too, Ill give ericom a call, but they dont seem to be interested in the west, they cant really ever give me any info, they always say they are limited to info and I should ask an engineer.....

Edit,

Well called up and rep sounded optimistic about FWA, I am going to look into it further and ask to carry out a site survey if the engineers installing the wireless phone line cant tell me anything. The rep suprisingly told me normal broadband is available in my area although the lines are not suitable, well not entirely sure yet as I have no phone line activated, but I gave a number to test just down the road from me yet the house is further from exchange than I am, so I may still have a slight chance.

Can I use the FWA with a wireless phoneline?

Sponge Bob

what the feck is costing you €120 ???? I'm lost now. The phone will 'break out' of a box inside the house . Do tell us the manufacturer after its installed The FWA broadband is a crippled wireless DSL equivalent (512k down not 3Mb)

shortys94

Sorry for bad post, the satellite bb is costing me 120 inc vat a month....

Is there any latency issues with FWA?

Sponge Bob

You would replace sat with FWA. while the cost is similar in year one it does fix latency and is usable for gaming and voip .

Your choices out there are Westnet (charlestown side of Knock airport) and eircom FWA

How long into the digiweb contract are you , that vsat stuff is usually a one year contract .

You may also be on the fringes of Irishwan who are active south of you but not if you basically live in a hole between 2 drumlins, you will need line of siight for all those options.

Lastmile are to the SE of you towards the east of Ballyhaunis inside roscommon.

shortys94

Ive been using the satellite for a few years, I think west net ar eplanning to set up a station in Knock, I am between Claremorris and Knock

I am pretty high up, as I overlook a valley and can see knock airport over it.

Sponge Bob

If you can 'see' Knock Airport what else can you see (don't say Kilkelly ) and how far away can you see a town and which one ?

shortys94

I can see Kiltimagh, Knock Airport And Knock.

I am going to wait until Eircom guys install Wireless phone service, hopefully they will, as I was just onto ericom rep and he stated that the FWA station was in Knock airport, so hopefully all goes well.

Will get a survey of site once phone is installed.

Sponge Bob

and the masts west of Kiltimagh as indicated here would be roughly how far ?????

shortys94

Hmm, id have to ask somebody in the family, Id say roughly a good few miles.....

Sponge Bob

any more than 8 miles and you are in trouble I'll wager

shortys94

ah nuts, yea but theres a station/mast in Knock, and eircom rep again stated that if wireless phoneline goes smoothly then I most likely will be able to avail of FWA, as wireless phone line mast is in Knock

I just went outside to take a pic of valley but camera needs to be charged, anyway I think i have just saw the kiltimagh masts, there are two or three on an elevated site, but i would say the knock mast is alot nearer..... hopefully things go well with wireless phone line

murrayj

Latency on 2-way satellite is worse than on 1-way satellite because the both up-link and downlink signals have to make the 80,000km round trip to the satellite. 1-way satellite uses dial-up for the up-link to the Internet - which is much lower latency. Of course, the bandwidth on the up-link can be higher with 2-way satellite - this is why you are paying double - but most users don't need much bandwidth on the up-link. You can also use ISDN on the up-link - clean 128k upstream channel with low latency. Of course, with 1-way satellite, you will still have some dial-up charges.

FWA Broadband is much lower latency because it doesn't have to go by satellite - all links are terrestrial.

shortys94

Yea, if you are in the line of sight, whats the maximum distance you can be from station, does this distance apply to all stations/masts, would the signal be similar to the phone signal

murrayj

The 3.5GHz Wireless technology that eircom use can go up to around 15km, in theory, if there are no obstructions. They use the same network for both phones and Broadband, so if you get your wireless phone service, then you should be able to get Broadband also.

The big problem most operators have with Wireless is that they cram too many customers on to it. However, since eircom are only using the technology in very rural areas where they havent rolled out DSL, they are probably being careful to avoid overloading it.

shortys94

ok, could you answer me this, could i use the wireless bb on the wireless phone line?

Sponge Bob

Oh God ! What a question .:(

Have you not clarified this with Eircom ???

murrayj

shortys94 wrote:

ok, could you answer me this, could i use the wireless bb on the wireless phone line?

Yes - you can use the wireless bb on the wireless phone "line". (I wouldn't quite call it a "line".) However, the eircom wireless Broadband uses exactly the same wireless spectrum as their phone system, and it shares the same antenna. The only difference is the "modem/router" device that they provide to connect to your computer.

shortys94

got wireless phone installed fine,

wanted to as a few questions, is the 512kbps on the FWA constant, and does it vary with usage around area? also would the 64kbps upload be as fast as my 128kbps upload on satellite....

what would my ping be on counter strike say for FWA

murrayj

shortys94 wrote:

got wireless phone installed fine,

wanted to as a few questions, is the 512kbps on the FWA constant, and does it vary with usage around area? also would the 64kbps upload be as fast as my 128kbps upload on satellite....

what would my ping be on counter strike say for FWA

You never get totally "constant" speeds on any sort of Broadband. Even if your access pipe is uncontended, you are sharing the route to the server with other Internet users somewhere. Depending on traffic levels, it is always possible that your download speed gets throttled somewhere.

I don't know what the contention rates are on the satellite service you are using, but since the satellite footprint probably covers most of Europe, the host satellite company(Digiweb are just a reseller) can probably cram quite a few users into their bandwidth, before they need to add more capacity. By comparison eircom are only using FWA in rural areas to deal with the tiny proportion of customers they can't get to with cable. They have FWA base stations dotted all over the country, so chances are that you will be sharing your Broadband with very few other users.

eircom also has the best backbone fibre-optic network, so once you get into your exchange you will have access to the fat pipes that are used for their ordinary DSL broadband. I use eircom DSL and I never have problems with contention and get download speeds close to spec. if I download directly from the eircom.net site.

Are you actually getting a consistent 512k download/128k upload at the moment on satellite? If so, then of course you will experience a slower rate for uploads with FWA (64k). However, my guess is that the contention on satellite is probably worse than on FWA and that you may not get close to 128k at busy times? However, for most people, uploading speeds are not that critical, and latency is a much more painful issue. Personally, I would trade a nominal 128k upload speed for 64k in order to get an order-of-magnitude reduction in latency.

Regarding pings - I average about 16ms(to eircom.net) on eircom DSL in Dublin. I would guess that this is at least an order of magnitude better than what you are getting on Satellite. FWA will probably be a bit higher but nothing like satellite. I have a friend using eircom FWA but he his on hols at the moment so I cant check what ping times he is getting. I know one of his kids uses gaming a lot and finds the ping rates very good.

shortys94

Is it possible to ask eircom to do a site survey to tell whether or not I can get the FWA, without going ahead with an order if they say I can get the service?

I can rephrase

murrayj

shortys94 wrote:

Is it possible to ask eircom to do a site survey to tell whether or not I can get the FWA, without going ahead with an order if they say I can get the service?

I can rephrase

There should be no need to do a site survey. If your wireless phone service is working, then the wireless signal for Broadband will work ok also. The only problem might be if there were too many others already connected - but this is very unlikely, and would be checked centrally on a planning tool, rather than by a site survey. You should just put in an order for the Broadband - I dont see any reason why it wont work.

shortys94

Yea alright, but I will have to sell satelitte for a good amount as 700 is alot of money, do you have any idea what the digiweb equipment could go for?

I was trying to contact Knock airport by email asking them what bb service they are using, but I think they may be now using the newly installed bb as the exchange in knock has supposedly been enabled

murrayj

shortys94 wrote:

Yea alright, but I will have to sell satelitte for a good amount as 700 is alot of money, do you have any idea what the digiweb equipment could go for?

I was trying to contact Knock airport by email asking them what bb service they are using, but I think they may be now using the newly installed bb as the exchange in knock has supposedly been enabled

Big companies like Airports have had direct fibre-optic connections to eircom's network for years. They don't even have to wait for exchanges to be "enabled". The "enabling" just refers to installing the DSL technology that allows Broadband to be piped out over copper cables to residential users and small businesses.

You could probably shift the satellite gear on e-bay?

oscarBravo

Knock Airport use WestNet broadband.

murrayj

oscarBravo wrote:

Knock Airport use WestNet broadband.

Perhaps... but I doubt they are running the air-traffic control, airline reservation systems, phone systems etc on a contended wireless broadband link from WestNet. I'll bet they have a fibre coming in from eircom with uncontended Broadband that they depend on for all the heavyweight stuff!.

Have you proof? Knock airport probably had the eircom Broadband link long before anyone ever heard of WestNet...and it will probably be there long after Westnet have bitten the dust. It's great to see a bit of community effort going into these group broadband schemes, but in my view most of them don't have a viable business model. They remind me of the old communal TV systems, if anyone is old enough to remember them. Don't fall for all the government nonsense about supporting community broadband schemes - its all a sham.

oscarBravo

murrayj wrote:

Perhaps... but I doubt they are running the air-traffic control...

ATC doesn't need an uncontended leased line - at least not at the Knock Airport level.

murrayj wrote:

...airline reservation systems...

The airlines make their own arrangements, usually using PSTN or ISDN lines. At least one of them will probably become a WestNet customer shortly.

murrayj wrote:

...phone systems...

The phone systems use ISDN and PSTN lines. What makes you think they need Eircom fibre for phone lines?

murrayj wrote:

...on a contended wireless broadband link from WestNet. I'll bet they have a fibre coming in from eircom with uncontended Broadband that they depend on for all the heavyweight stuff!.

You'll bet, will you? How much do you want to bet? I'll take that wager.

murrayj wrote:

Have you proof?

Depends what you call proof. I can meet you at the airport and show you the equipment. I can introduce you to the Airport technical manager.

Or, you could just call me a liar.

murrayj wrote:

Knock airport probably had the eircom Broadband link long before anyone ever heard of WestNet...and it will probably be there long after Westnet have bitten the dust.

Eircom installed a leased line to the airport - not sure of the capacity - to run their own pricey hotspot jobbie. The airport were not given access to it.

murrayj wrote:

It's great to see a bit of community effort going into these group broadband schemes, but in my view most of them don't have a viable business model.

Researched them extensively, have you?

murrayj wrote:

They remind me of the old communal TV systems, if anyone is old enough to remember them.

Communal TV systems such as Mayo Community TV, which still has thousands of subscribers (including me)?

shortys94

How much would I get for the digiweb gear if I sold it?

shortys94

anyone have any idea ^^

Sponge Bob

feck all, search for Gilat on Ebay .

murrayj

oscarBravo wrote:

ATC doesn't need an uncontended leased line - at least not at the Knock Airport level. The airlines make their own arrangements, usually using PSTN or ISDN lines. At least one of them will probably become a WestNet customer shortly. The phone systems use ISDN and PSTN lines. What makes you think they need Eircom fibre for phone lines? You'll bet, will you? How much do you want to bet? I'll take that wager. Depends what you call proof. I can meet you at the airport and show you the equipment. I can introduce you to the Airport technical manager.

Or, you could just call me a liar. Eircom installed a leased line to the airport - not sure of the capacity - to run their own pricey hotspot jobbie. The airport were not given access to it. Researched them extensively, have you? Communal TV systems such as Mayo Community TV, which still has thousands of subscribers (including me)?

I have never been in Knock Airport, but I am sure that when you add all the payphones, car-rental kiosks, reservation desks, shops etc, together, there must be at least 100 phone "lines" alone there. Thats before you count all the Broadband leased lines for computers, ATM machines, etc. etc. If memory serves me right there is also a Business Park next door. Companies that have more than about 10 phone lines get Primary Rate ISDN which is effectively 2MBit/s uncontended Symmetric Broadband dedicated to Voice channels. Business parks and airports where there are multiple Broadband links are multiplexed and fed by high capacity transmission direct from eircom's fibre backbone. It's been done this way for years... long before DSL Broadband, Wireless or WestNet.

Regarding the business case for community wireless systems...I have studied it...and I observe that many have already gone out of business...and many others have deplorable quality and customer-care issues. I am sick of reading the sob stories on this Board from customers of IBB, Digiweb, Last-Mile-Wireless etc. etc. The only thing that seems to be propping these up is some silly Govt grants from the GBS. The Govt are finally waking to realising these schemes are a disaster, and that they should have invested the money in supporting DSL or cable based infrastructure like every other country. The Green Party challenged the issue recently in the Oireachtas and the whole sham unravelled.

The reason this issue matters to me is that the Dept of Education forced schools to use all these amateur wireless systems instead of going with eircom or other reputable Broadband providers. My school has been deprived of Broadband, as have numerous colleagues in other schools...not because eircom isn't available...but because we are not allowed use them!

Regarding the Community (Pirate?) TV... I didn't realise there were any still working. I understood most of them were put out of operation because they weren't paying Performing Rights on the content they were re-broadcasting. In any case most people are moving to Satellite in order to Digital or HD. I doubt that Mayo Commmunity TV has figured how to do Digital or HD?

I don't want to seem like anti-community or anything, but when it comes to serious things like utility networks and telecommunications, I think it is better to leave it to the professionals.

By the way, what wireless spectrum are WestNet using? I can't seem to find a reference to their licence on ComReg's site?

murrayj

shortys94 wrote:

anyone have any idea ^^

Apologies shortys94 for hijacking your thread with some off-topic stuff there....but there was some stuff that couldn't go unchallenged.

Regarding your satellite kit, you might even be able to sell it outside Ireland. Those satellites are used right across Europe. Digiweb are just a re-seller. You might find a bigger market in somewhere like UK?? I haven't a clue how much this stuff goes for second-hand.

lucernarian

murrayj wrote:

I don't want to seem like anti-community or anything, but when it comes to serious things like utility networks and telecommunications, I think it is better to leave it to the professionals.

Professionals are the people who knowingly continue to install pairgains in brand new housing estates, rendering the line useless for DSL.

Professionals are the people who install fibre-fed remote exchanges only not to bother DSL enabling them.

Professionals are the people who give all sorts of ****e as an excuse when a line fails because it's 50 years old and all the junction boxes to the exchange are corroded.

Professionals are the people who begrudge their customers a FWA broadband connection and only do it when put under pressure or in some rural areas.

Professionals are the people who went on the airwaves and claim that they are committed to Ireland's communications infrastructure while the closest thing a customer will come to fibre is at their sub exchange/uber-pairgain.

Professionals are another company who thinks that they can come up with basically random numbers and bill them with it. And then refuse any admission of guilt.

Sorry, but I think you're talking through your ass. (No reflection on your good self- not meant as an insult)

Sponge Bob

murrayj wrote:

Regarding the business case for community wireless systems...I have studied it...and I observe that many have already gone out of business...and many others have deplorable quality and customer-care issues. I am sick of reading the sob stories on this Board from customers of IBB, Digiweb, Last-Mile-Wireless etc. etc. The only thing that seems to be propping these up is some silly Govt grants from the GBS. The Govt are finally waking to realising these schemes are a disaster, and that they should have invested the money in supporting DSL or cable based infrastructure like every other country. The Green Party challenged the issue recently in the Oireachtas and the whole sham unravelled.

Hmmm sound like eircom canteen speak there

The reason this issue matters to me is that the Dept of Education forced schools to use all these amateur wireless systems instead of going with eircom or other reputable Broadband providers.

what reputable BB providers ? Eircom only cover about 20% of the country by area , reputable provider that they are in your eyes.

My school has been deprived of Broadband, as have numerous colleagues in other schools...not because eircom isn't available...but because we are not allowed use them!

Your school?? Do you own it or do you just go there?????

I don't want to seem like anti-community or anything, but when it comes to serious things like utility networks and telecommunications, I think it is better to leave it to the professionals.

and if you live in rural areas they leave it to the birds. TWEET TWEET

What a silly rant that was, had you asked nicely I would have told you how to get off your beloved satellite connection in 'your ' school but now I care less

oscarBravo

murrayj wrote:

I have never been in Knock Airport...

I have. Many, many times. Most recently, while installing wireless broadband to replace the POS satellite "broadband" system they were lumbered with.

murrayj wrote:

...but I am sure that when you add all the payphones, car-rental kiosks, reservation desks, shops etc, together, there must be at least 100 phone "lines" alone there.

What you're "sure" about and what's actually happening in the real world don't always coincide.

murrayj wrote:

If memory serves me right there is also a Business Park next door.

Yes, there is. Guess who's providing broadband to most of those businesses?

murrayj wrote:

Companies that have more than about 10 phone lines get Primary Rate ISDN which is effectively 2MBit/s uncontended Symmetric Broadband dedicated to Voice channels. Business parks and airports where there are multiple Broadband links are multiplexed and fed by high capacity transmission direct from eircom's fibre backbone. It's been done this way for years... long before DSL Broadband, Wireless or WestNet.

You know what: I'm directly challenging you, here and now. Prove that there is fibre broadband available to the Airport and the companies in the business park. Ring the company that manages the Airport's IT systems - I'll PM you the name, and the name of a contact person - and ask them why they felt the need to get wireless broadband to replace their alleged Eircom fibre leased line.

Or apologise for calling me a liar, which, to all intents and purposes, you have done.

murrayj wrote:

Regarding the business case for community wireless systems...I have studied it...and I observe that many have already gone out of business...and many others have deplorable quality and customer-care issues. I am sick of reading the sob stories on this Board from customers of IBB, Digiweb, Last-Mile-Wireless etc. etc. The only thing that seems to be propping these up is some silly Govt grants from the GBS.

Having studied the situation in such depth, you'll be aware of just how many of those grants have been paid out, no doubt. You'll also be aware of the requirement to demonstrate a viable business model, with cashflow projections, before grants are approved. Further, you'll be familiar with the independent third-party audit to demonstrate the viability of each scheme, before the grants are actually paid out.

Seeing as you're the expert and all.

murrayj wrote:

The Govt are finally waking to realising these schemes are a disaster, and that they should have invested the money in supporting DSL or cable based infrastructure like every other country.

Yup, that's exactly what this country needs - a further entrenched monopoly, government supported, with no guarantees whatsoever as to coverage levels.

murrayj wrote:

The reason this issue matters to me is that the Dept of Education forced schools to use all these amateur wireless systems instead of going with eircom or other reputable Broadband providers. My school has been deprived of Broadband, as have numerous colleagues in other schools...not because eircom isn't available...but because we are not allowed use them!

I call bull****. Most schools were lumbered with satellite systems, because that "professional" company, eircom, don't have a fraction of the DSL coverage they claim to have.

murrayj wrote:

Regarding the Community (Pirate?) TV... I didn't realise there were any still working. I understood most of them were put out of operation because they weren't paying Performing Rights on the content they were re-broadcasting.

I guess that's another case of you working on what you believe to be the case, rather than what's actually going on. Some - not all - community TV operators are fully licenced and above board.

murrayj wrote:

In any case most people are moving to Satellite in order to Digital or HD. I doubt that Mayo Commmunity TV has figured how to do Digital or HD?

I can't speak for them, but I don't think they're bothered.

murrayj wrote:

I don't want to seem like anti-community or anything, but when it comes to serious things like utility networks and telecommunications, I think it is better to leave it to the professionals.

Unfortunately, you don't seem interested in distinguishing between a community operation and a professional wireless operator.

murrayj wrote:

By the way, what wireless spectrum are WestNet using? I can't seem to find a reference to their licence on ComReg's site?

Licence-exempt, for the most part. We're still working out how to herd people into the neat 15km circles ComReg seem to believe rural people should live in to qualify for licenced wireless broadband.

murrayj

oscarBravo wrote:

Licence-exempt, for the most part. We're still working out how to herd people into the neat 15km circles ComReg seem to believe rural people should live in to qualify for licenced wireless broadband.

I hope the US President or any such dignatory never visits Knock Airport. If you are using the unlicensed band, the first thing the US authorities do is to jam it, as it is also used to trigger explosive devices. It will be interesting to see all the comm's systems in Knock airport sitting down because their unlicensed band is jammed! Do the authorities in Knock airport realise their Broadband is carried over a band that is shared with everything from CCTV systems, walkie-talkies, etc? There is absolutely no control over the available bandwidth in this band. It's pot luck. You might be getting away with it now, but come to Dublin and see what its like for customers of IBB using the unlicensed band also. Wait until all the sheep in Mayo have Wi-Fi tracking collars on them in a few years time!

Blaster99

oscarBravo wrote:

Having studied the situation in such depth, you'll be aware of just how many of those grants have been paid out, no doubt. You'll also be aware of the requirement to demonstrate a viable business model, with cashflow projections, before grants are approved. Further, you'll be familiar with the independent third-party audit to demonstrate the viability of each scheme, before the grants are actually paid out.

It should be pointed out that he said that the only reason some of the wireless providers are viable is because they've received GBS funding, he wasn't saying that no funding had been given out. I would incidentally agree that the GBS are a complete waste of tax money and it looks like the message is spreading. Whether wireless operators are viable or not, I don't know. It doesn't appear to be a technology that scales very well, but in rural areas it probably works quite well.

oscarBravo wrote:

Yup, that's exactly what this country needs - a further entrenched monopoly, government supported, with no guarantees whatsoever as to coverage levels.

It is of course possible to hand over money in return for an SLA. Whether it's possible in Ireland with the people in charge of broadband policy and regulation is another story.

oscarBravo

murrayj wrote:

Do the authorities in Knock airport realise their Broadband is carried over a band that is shared with everything from CCTV systems, walkie-talkies, etc?

What difference does it make? They've got Eircom fibre, right? Oh wait, you didn't address that part of my post, or any other part other than the one where you thought you could get in a cheap shot.

Answer the rest of my post, please. I'm still waiting for the apology.

murrayj wrote:

There is absolutely no control over the available bandwidth in this band. It's pot luck.

It's called engineering and radio planning. It's what professional wireless operators do.

murrayj wrote:

You might be getting away with it now, but come to Dublin and see what its like for customers of IBB using the unlicensed band also.

If you do ever decide to visit this part of the world, you may notice a subtle difference in population density.

oscarBravo

Blaster99 wrote:

It should be pointed out that he said that the only reason some of the wireless providers are viable is because they've received GBS funding, he wasn't saying that no funding had been given out.

And I was pointing out that, seeing as how only a small percentage of the promised funding has been paid out, it's disingenuous to suggest that wireless operators are living on it.

Blaster99 wrote:

I would incidentally agree that the GBS are a complete waste of tax money and it looks like the message is spreading. Whether wireless operators are viable or not, I don't know. It doesn't appear to be a technology that scales very well, but in rural areas it probably works quite well.

...which are precisely the areas GBS are targetted at.

Blaster99 wrote:

It is of course possible to hand over money in return for an SLA. Whether it's possible in Ireland with the people in charge of broadband policy and regulation is another story.

More to the point, it's the only story.

murrayj

oscarBravo wrote:

What difference does it make? They've got Eircom fibre, right? Oh wait, you didn't address that part of my post, or any other part other than the one where you thought you could get in a cheap shot.

Answer the rest of my post, please. I'm still waiting for the apology. It's called engineering and radio planning. It's what professional wireless operators do. If you do ever decide to visit this part of the world, you may notice a subtle difference in population density.

I agree...it probably doesn't matter because they are likely using eircom for the important stuff...which is where I started.

By the way, you are being selective in your response. You haven't explained how you prevent Knock Airport from becoming the laughing stock of the World when the US president visits and all the comm's systems are knocked out?

Regarding the engineering and radio planning....explain to how you deal with some guy in between your base-station and your customer setting up another transmitter...on the same unlicensed band. This will have a stronger signal which your customer will now detect. Let's say he fills the full bandwidth with Bit-Torrent or something. How does your radio-planning and engineering cope? Do you immediately install another antenna between the new guy and your customer?

oscarBravo

murrayj wrote:

I agree...it probably doesn't matter because they are likely using eircom for the important stuff...which is where I started.

You started with a bunch of wild-ass speculation, unsupported by any understanding whatsoever of the actual issues involved. You invented an hypothetical ATC system that requires fibre bandwidth, while admitting that you've never been in the airport. I've been in the control tower. You picked a number out of your ass for the number of phones there "must" be there, and arbitrarily decided that they're not using PSTN for any of them.

Go away, do some research, and answer my questions.

murrayj wrote:

By the way, you are being selective in your response. You haven't explained how you prevent Knock Airport from becoming the laughing stock of the World when the US president visits and all the comm's systems are knocked out?

I'll tell you what: when you're talking to the airport's IT services company, why don't you tell them about this incredibly likely threat to the survival of their business. Don't forget to mention the WiFi sheep as well, they'll need to know about them.

I'm sure they'll be running back to their Eircom fibre in no time.

murrayj wrote:

Regarding the engineering and radio planning....explain to how you deal with some guy in between your base-station and your customer setting up another transmitter...on the same unlicensed band. This will have a stronger signal which your customer will now detect. Let's say he fills the full bandwidth with Bit-Torrent or something. How does your radio-planning and engineering cope? Do you immediately install another antenna between the new guy and your customer?

I'll probably just suggest that they all get Eircom fibre. It's just lying around in the ditches, doncha know.