Keeping cats indoors

lady_marmalade

I will be interested in getting a kitten soon. Was looking on some of the links posted here and saw that a lot of places insist that you keep the cat indoors for the duration. I 100% understand the thinking behind this as I've just lost a cat to the roads, but at the same time I do think that it's kind of cruel keeping a cat confined indoors. What do yis all think?

fabcat

I kind of agree, all my cats have been outdoor cats as in they were free to come and go as they pleased, but we always kept them in at night, I now live in an apartment in the city centre, so the kitten I have now is kept inside all the time, I do feel sorry for her sometimes though as she loves looking out the window and it looks like she wants to go out and explore

Irish-Lass

I have 3 indoor cats and don't think its cruel at all. we have two for nearly 5 years and they are quiet content and happy and one for 2 years. I keep my cats inside cause I live near a main road.

I think as a responsible owner you have to take every precaution where your cat is concerned, people don't let dogs roam so I don't see why cats should be let roam. I know where my cats are 100% of the time, I can spot if they are unwell in a matter of hours, I don't have to go to bed worrying about them if they will come home, if they will be in a fight etc. They are not at risk of getting FIV or FeLV.

Once the cats have toys that will stimulate them they are not lacking anything.

This is what 3 indoor cats look like

lady_marmalade

Aw, Kissy is the image of a cat I had years ago...

nollaig

people don't let dogs roam so I don't see why cats should be let roam.

Thats because dogs can do damage, Cats cant.

I'd never keep a cat indoors all the time.

eiretamicha

When I lived with my mom, my cat Jezebel was indoor/outdoor. She came inside to eat and sleep, and was outside the rest of the time. She was a hunter, an expert tree-climber, and simply loved being outdoors--after all, cats were at one point in time, and still partially are wild. Their natural habitat is the great outdoors.

After I got married and moved to a bigger town with more traffic, I kept Jezebel inside out of fear of the road. Six months I managed to keep her in. And for six months she was the most miserable, grouchy, and mean cat I've ever seen. She was not the same Jezebel. I felt absolutley awful for her.

I started letting her out again last month, and I feel it was the best decision I could have made for her. Yes, I do realize that her lifespan may well be significantly shorter because of this, but I made my decision based on quality of life versus quantity of years. She's a deliriously happy cat again, but the lizards and birds...not so happy.

Irish-Lass

nollaig wrote:

Thats because dogs can do damage, Cats cant.

thats not actually try cats can do damage.........how many people have you heard about cats using their garden to go to the toilet in.....cats kill baby birds etc.

I think anyone who lives near a busy road etc. and is willing to let their cat out to play in my opinion is being irresponsible and they will be the very ones who will have something to say when the cat gets knocked down and killed on the road or knocked down and injured and they have to fork out on vets bill or put the cat to sleep.....but then again cats are disposable in the Irish Society.....easy come easy go.

I know of someone who lives on a very busy road, only has her cats for 6/7 months at a time cause they always get killed on the road.....her reply oh well at least they had a good 6/7 months, in my opinion she should be banned from having cats

I can't understand people who think indoor cats can't be happy, of course if a cat is use to going out it is going to want to go out, but a cat only has a memory bank of 6 weeks so if the cat is kept stimulated and given toys to play with scratch posts to jump off and climb they can be perfectly happy living an indoor only life....and as for quality over quantity don't buy that either sorry

ok rant over

Ruu_Old

We have a kitten and keep her inside 90% of the time, but Im at home most of the time so I guess thats better. When Im out I think she keeps occupied and theres heaps of things for her to play with, shes spoiled rotten. Maybe you could get a companion for him/her? We often bring her out for short walks with us to the park across the street and she seems to like that and drives in the car with us to the pet store (where you are allowed bring your pet inside)

eiretamicha

Irish-Lass wrote:

but a cat only has a memory bank of 6 weeks so if the cat is kept stimulated...

Link? I'm very interested in this, and have definitley never heard it before. I'd like to beg to differ with whoever came up with it, however, because my Jezebel seemed to remember exactly how much she wanted to be outdoors for the duration of the six months that she was indoors. And she was given plenty of affection, toys, and scratch posts...but honestly, who can compare that to hunting for fresh, live prey, and climbing 30ft. tall trees?

I do agree with you in that cats can be very happy inside if they've never lived outdoors. They do not know what they're missing, therefore they don't miss anything at all.

Irish-Lass wrote:

and as for quality over quantity don't buy that either sorry

*shrug* Different strokes for different folks. I don't force my views on anyone, but I do not believe it is right to keep a semi-wild creature locked inside a house 24/7. Dogs are allowed daily walks, why should cats be held captive indoors? I do have another kitty, George, who is harness and leash trained. He is an indoor cat whom we take outside daily, but only ever with his harness and leash. We were fortunate, however, in that we trained him while he was still young. My 5 year old Jezebel, on the other hand, would never take to a harness and leash. She is absolutley miserable if kept locked indoors. I choose to let her outside when she wants out. She is a happier (and yes, healthier) cat for it. I make the best decisions I can for my family, which includes my companion-animals, and I trust you do the same. Specific guidelines can't always be applied to every specific situation.

RotalicaV

I agree, our cat lives both in doors and out. She comes and goes as she pleases. We're next to a main road but shes never out there that i've saw. The people behind us have cats aswell, they're cats and our neighbours next door roam also.

I think cats are smart enough to look after themselves outside and its unfair to keep them indoors permanently.

Arcadian

Cats, the perfect pet for those who like to shirk their responsibilities. Sure just open the door and let it out, don't mind the fact that they destroy peoples gardens when they use them as toilets (talk about smell:mad: ) and they regularly trespass into others' houses. Such cats are likely to be poisoned by irate neighbours, attacked by dogs, hit by cars or simply disappear:(

eiretamicha

Arcadian wrote:

Cats, the perfect pet for those who like to shirk their responsibilities. Sure just open the door and let it out, don't mind the fact that they destroy peoples gardens when they use them as toilets (talk about smell:mad: ) and they regularly trespass into others' houses. Such cats are likely to be poisoned by irate neighbours, attacked by dogs, hit by cars or simply disappear:(

This all depends on the area you live in, and whether or not your pet is spayed/neutered.

Arcadian

All my cats are spayed/neutered, that wouldn't stop them entering the homes of my neighbours or toileting in their gardens, it wouldn't stop them crossing the road either

eiretamicha

Arcadian wrote:

All my cats are spayed/neutered, that wouldn't stop them entering the homes of my neighbours or toileting in their gardens, it wouldn't stop them crossing the road either

I do see how some very social kitties may enter the homes of neighbours. I never really thought about it because my cat is kinda anti-social, and has never done it before. LOL, that would be a strange one alright, coming home from work and having somebody's kitty follow you into your house! I wouldn't know what to do, I guess I'd just give her some attention and put her back outside.

The spaying/neutering was in reference to permanent disappearance. You're absolutley right, it wouldn't stop friendly cats from wandering into other peoples' homes. And it definitley wouldn't stop them from pooing wherever they want.

My cat doesn't go near the road. But I do understand that she may be an exception. I've almost run over a kitty before that made a mad dash for the other side. Scariest 30 seconds of my life!

If one is living in the country, though, with no busy roads and no next-door neighbours, letting them out would be a fair bit easier. I understand that not all kitties can go outside. It's a shame, but it's life.

EGAR

I have my neighbours cats come for a visit, even though theu live more than a mile up the road and I got 33 dogs here . Doesn't stop them from saying hello every once in a while. I would love to keep a cat or two but I can't because of the dogs. Sometimes someone dumps a cardboard box full of kittens on my doorstep which I have to re-home then. I would never re-home a cat/kitten into a 24/7 indoors situation as I would never re-home a dog into a 24/7 outside situation either. Cats are fiercely independent and love to roam. However, it might be different if they don't know any better. But being in rural Ireland I doubt very much that the cats/kittens dumped here were inside all their lives.

Gordon Gekko

I have two indoor-only cats, and decided to keep them as indoor only after extensive, and I mean incredibly, anally, obsessively extensive, research as to the pros/cons/merits/drawbacks of indoors versus outdoors. My natual inclination on starting my research, as is most peoples', was of course to allow them outdoors.

Unlike many people I deal with who accuse me of ignoring nature etc., I evaluated (probably far too much) veterinary, animal behavioural, etc. data and information, mulled it over, and only then came to my reasoned decision.

I was forced during my research to discount such 'urban wisdom' as statements above such as 'cats are fiercly independent creatures' or 'cats are partially wild still'.

If people only did a bit of research, they'd be in a better position to argue their point, instead of relying on the Irish 'ah sure everybody knows cats are x, y and z' argument.

Try applying the outdoors argument to other pets - should dogs roam freely? Or hamsters? Rabbits? Budgies? It is in the best interests of these animals, other wildlife, and society at large that this is not the case - so it is with cats.

eiretamicha

Gordon Gekko wrote:

If people only did a bit of research, they'd be in a better position to argue their point, instead of relying on the Irish 'ah sure everybody knows cats are x, y and z' argument.

Not everyone bases their way of thinking upon the way they were raised. I was raised in a "Oh it's just a cat!" family, and have done extensive research to prove to my family that it's not, in fact, just a cat. Also, as I'm not Irish, I feel the need to point out to you that this way of thinking exists all over the world, not just in Ireland.

Try applying the outdoors argument to other pets - should dogs roam freely? Or hamsters? Rabbits? Budgies? It is in the best interests of these animals, other wildlife, and society at large that this is not the case - so it is with cats.

Technically, yes, they should. But we humans, in our quest to play God, have taken it upon ourselves to "domesticate" these wild animals, and therefore to disrupt the natural balance of the earth's creatures. We've decided that animals are our property and not our co-habitants, therefore in making this decision, we must also make consequent decisions that best suit our particular circumstances. I firmly believe that cats should be allowed outdoors, at least partially, but this simply may not be possible in all situations.

EGAR

Gordon Gekko wrote:

I was forced during my research to discount such 'urban wisdom' as statements above such as 'cats are fiercly independent creatures' or 'cats are partially wild still'.
If people only did a bit of research, they'd be in a better position to argue their point, instead of relying on the Irish 'ah sure everybody knows cats are x, y and z' argument.

Maybe you know different *cats* than me . The ones I know love to be outside and even insist on their outside independence. However, I did write that it may be different with cats that don't know any better.

As to the Irish argument, I am not Irish either . As for the rest I agree with eiretamicha.

Sarah

Tabitharose

good article on the subject:

http://www.vospca.org/archive/freedom.html

The Price of Freedom by Gary Dungan

small quote from it:

At worst, the "free" cat will be killed outright or left with lingering disabilities, abscesses, etc. The list of tragic ends and injuries for the cat allowed to be free goes on and on.

rachel

When I lived at home, we had 5 cats who had free roam of the house & outside. I now live in on the top floor of an apartment block & have three cats who live indoors.
Two of them were got as kittens and have never been outside. However, I have a door which opens onto a roof garden and I have that fitted with a cat flap so they do have access to some open space.
The third cat, Missy, is 3 years older than the other two & she was originally an outdoor cat & by the admission of the person who gave her to me, loved going outside & spent most of her time outside. I was worried about taking her at first because of this but she needed a home urgently & I can't resist a cat that needs a home. I figured if things didn't work out, my mum could adopt her & she could live outside.
As I type now, Missy is stretched out beside me on the couch & has no desire whatsoever to go outside! She goes onto the roof garden occassionally but spends most of her time lounging about being showered with affection. She is one of the happiest cats I know! The same goes for the other two. They show no desire to go out the front door whatsoever & they are usually so curious about everything else.

I have no concerns about keeping the three of them inside. I like to think that their lack of desire to go outside is because they're so happy & looked after here but I think it may be down to their laziness!

The only advice I would give to someone thinking of keeping a cat indoors is 1) get two to keep each other company especially if you're out at work for long periods during the day, 2) buy a specialist indoor cat food which cuts down on unpleasant litter smells & 3) invest in some cat toys & a scratching post, I find they love the little foam balls you can get in pet store

sunbeam

There's an interesting article on international attitudes to the indoor-outdoor debate here. [Edit] There's another one I couldn't find earlier on the pros/cons of indoors and outdoors here

I live in a quiet rural area where practically all cats are outdoor farm animals who might come in to eat or laze in front of the fire, but usually spend the night in the barn. They do tend to roam about a bit, but are generally considered far less of a nuisance than wandering cows and sheep. The roads are very quiet here and though they occasionally get hit by cars, it's certainly not an everyday occurrence. Most of our old cats lived well into their teens. I do appreciate that the outdoors can hold more dangers for cats in busier areas though.

Garth

Can I just point out there are no wild cats in Ireland that are not the result of irresponsible owners of domestic cats?

Cats damage the ecology of Ireland inasmuch as they kill birds and rodent life that are indiginous. They shouldn't be allowed outside at all, and not for their own protection either but for ecological balance and the preservation of species that never evolved to cope with cats as predators.

Cats were brought to Ireland by people who had domesticated them.

Cats make lovely pets but should have to be kept indoors. It's just not the easiest answer, so people won't bother. They don't bother with anything that isn't easy.

My neighbour lets her kids run out on the main road for hours on end. Other motorists stop on the road and coax the very young children off the road before driving on. I guess wandering is natural for toddlers, and probably would be "cruel" to confine them.

Irish-Lass

Garth is right, cats are not native to ireland and were actually introduced here so all cats can be traced back to a domestic cat.

nollaig

thats not actually try cats can do damage.........how many people have you heard about cats using their garden to go to the toilet in.....cats kill baby birds etc.

What I meant was tha dogs can attack people and do that type of damage, Cats wont do that

CookieCat

I think what Irish Lassie is referring to is that it takes approx 6 weeks to modify and re programme a cats behaviour barring genetics. Cat take for granted good experiences but bad experiences stay with them longer. The clever cat Psychologist folks which my friend is one have studied cat behaviour as part of their feline behaviour degree.
Since the 1970 not much was known or documentation about cat behaviour this has now changed and we are learning and understanding more about their personality trates and behavioural displays.

Cats don't need to go out side. In fact kitten adoption only re homes to indoor homes why because they KNOW that is the right thing to do for the cats saftey, this is not just a whim but as I say Jan is a human Psychologist with a qualification in feline behaviour and has written many articles on the subject (Have a google)

To often we project human emotions on to our cats and just because the look out the window and meow it does not mean that it wants out, it means that it is curious. 1 in 4 Out door cats just don't come home info on Kittenadoption.ie there is also a section 9Not for the feint hearted) Pictures of cruelty cases that they have dealt with. Including 2 8 week old kittens that wandered onto a property and were stamped on.

We who work in feline rescue also put a lot of time and effort into rearing these kittens. Hand feeding 2 hours round the clock, expensive vet care. so we want to ensure that they find happy safe indoor homes. That all their needs can be recreated. Jan has reprogrammed many out door cats to be happy contented indoor cats with plenty of play stimulation and even those who have presented with high prey drives have been successfully managed. The problem is not the cats but the humans it does take hard work and repetition as cats learn mainly by repetition, we find the humans may give up before the cat.

I get a bit saddened with folks having the attitude that they know what is best for their cat...Oh they don't go near the road!!!! Come on we love our cats but they are not the brightest buttons in the box and the other excuse.."I wold rather take that chance and give them a happy life, it may be short but they are happy...Did anyone ask the cat?
An indoor cat is not a FLAT cat or a poisoned cat or a diseased cat.

Claire X

fabcat

mine can sometimes be a very stupid cat:rolleyes:

jaggiebunnet

Irish-Lass wrote:

Garth is right, cats are not native to ireland and were actually introduced here so all cats can be traced back to a domestic cat.

which magically sub divided it's cells to create a clone cat that it then mated with?

I think cats should be allowed out of doors, and i have to say the photograph of the cats in the 1st page of this postproves my thinking that they become overweight by being kept in.

I am not saying it is cruel to keep cats in (although it is cruel to keep dogs out and 90% of owners seem to think is acceptable, lock them in the garden and leave em there - let them howl their heads off and piss every neighbour off in a mile radius), but I wouldn't be happy not letting them have their fun in the great outdoors.

Arcadian

jaggiebunnet wrote:

. but I wouldn't be happy not letting them have their fun in the great outdoors.

Define 'fun'

EGAR

Nothing I read has persuaded me not to re-home cats into an outdoor enviroment (mind, I do not re-home cats into cities/towns).

I guess we'll just a have to agree to disagree.

Sarah

CookieCat

EGAR wrote:

Nothing I read has persuaded me not to re-home cats into an outdoor enviroment (mind, I do not re-home cats into cities/towns).

I guess we'll just a have to agree to disagree.

Sarah

No interesting, please share how you reached that opinion:rolleyes: . Though now I am confused. Do we believe the research and the so called experts or the have a go Joe's.;) Is it not responsible management for a rescue to give out researched advice about their chosen breed?
Now I am off to walk the dog where is the choke chain;)
Calire X

eiretamicha

An indoor cat is not a FLAT cat or a poisoned cat or a diseased cat.

No, but it can definitley be an emotionally unstable cat, an angry cat, a stressed cat, a moody cat, an extremely territorial cat, a confused cat, a FAT cat, a yearning cat, and yes, a sick and diseased cat.

Cats are not objects. They are not toys. They are not our "property".

Cats don't need to go out side.

If you're going to argue that point, then neither do humans. But I'll tell you one thing, if I had a choice to either live to be 105 years old but be indoors for the remainder of that life, or live to be 60 and be allowed to feel the sun's rays, taste the earth's moisture, contemplate under a full moon, and smell the damp richness of the earth's soil...I'll give you three guesses as to which life I'd choose.

Fresh food is only one of the basic principles that are needed in order to give your cat a healthy and happy life. Fresh air is another. Sunlight is yet another. And then there's exercise. I don't care how many "thing on a string"'s your kitty chases throughout the day...this will never give it as much exercise as allowing your kitty to run through a field and climb trees.

As a disclaimer, I do understand that not everyone has a giant yard for kitty to run around in, or a humongous tree for it to climb. In these cases, I recommend that you leash and harness train your kitty and bring it outdoors for at least 30 minutes each and every day. Take kitty to an animal-friendly park, to the beach, to the river...allow your kitty to explore and bask in the sunshine for a while. To me, there is absolutley no reason whatsoever that kitties cannot be granted one of life's most taken-for-granted rights. No animal deserves to be kept in a prison.

This debate is really going around in circles. It looks like there are two types of people here: people who think animals should be allowed outside, and people who think they should be indoors for the duration of their lives. We can agree to disagree, it's not a bad thing.

CookieCat

You have made the point for me...Human emotions:cool: Cats can be owned and are by those who project human emotions and human values onto them or those who believe they are the easy out door option. I have a run for my own cats and encourage folks to do the same or cat proof their garden. Guess what the majority of them can't be bothered.

Please give details of why an indoor cat is unstable....That would be down to lazy ownership and again folks who just can't be bothered to stimulate their cat(s). And the same folks religiously walk their dogs and have safe enclosed areas for them to be SAFE in why discriminate agianst the cat.

I shall not be letting my cats out to be injured by uncaring humans, run over posioned nor subjected to FIV FeLV or the dreaded FIP for those who think that's ok shame on you.
Claire X

eiretamicha

CookieCat wrote:

You have made the point for me...Human emotions:cool: Cats can be owned and are by those who project human emotions and human values onto them or those who believe they are the easy out door option. I have a run for my own cats and encourage folks to do the same or cat proof their garden. Guess what the majority of them can't be bothered.

Please give details of why an indoor cat is unstable....That would be down to lazy ownership and again folks who just can't be bothered to stimulate their cat(s). And the same folks religiously walk their dogs and have safe enclosed areas for them to be SAFE in why discriminate agianst the cat.

I shall not be letting my cats out to be injured by uncaring humans, run over posioned nor subjected to FIV FeLV or the dreaded FIP for those who think that's ok shame on you.
Claire X

I am baffled at the amount of words you put into my mouth.

I have stated that cats who cannot be let outdoors to roam should be harness and leash trained. This means taking them outdoors while attached to a leash. In a similar fashion, owning a run for kitties is wonderful, and should by all means be done for kitties who cannot have full access to the outdoors. Cats should never be discriminated against...not sure where you got that from? Cats have just as much right as dogs to fresh air and exercise.

Raising unstable indoor kitties is NOT always directly as a result of lazy pet-owners. Cats are natural predators and explorers. If one of your most basic, natural instincts was not granted to you, you would also become unstable. It is common sense here. Just as zoo-lions can lose their emotional stability when confined to cages all their lives, so too can domestic cats.

In response to the "don't project human emotions on cats" argument, I can only say that I do not view cats as lesser creatures than humans, simply different creatures, and equally deserving of respect. This is, of course, my own personal way of thinking that I in no way try to force on other people.

EGAR

CookieCat wrote:

No interesting, please share how you reached that opinion:rolleyes: . Though now I am confused. Do we believe the research and the so called experts or the have a go Joe's.;)

I believe in the experience I have made, is that simple enough for you? Please don't try to impose your opinion on me in a way to make mine sound inferior . "Research" always depends on whos researching and to what end, for every research pro there are researches con.

CookieCat wrote:

Is it not responsible management for a rescue to give out researched advice about their chosen breed?

I have not chosen cats as my primary rescue *target* but dog, bull breeds in particular. The cats I have here every now and then are dumped on my door step. If you as rescue are convinced that indoor life is best for a cat, go right ahead, I am not trying to persuade you otherwise. But please allow me my own opinion .

CookieCat wrote:

Now I am off to walk the dog where is the choke chain;)
Calire Xc

Whatever makes you happy

Sarah

fuzzywiggle

I was just reading this article the other day. (I have 2 cats. They like it both outside and in doors) Anyway thought you might like to read it also!

http://cats.about.com/cs/catmanagement101/a/indooroutdoor.htm

eiretamicha

fuzzywiggle wrote:

I was just reading this article the other day. (I have 2 cats. They like it both outside and in doors) Anyway thought you might like to read it also!

http://cats.about.com/cs/catmanagement101/a/indooroutdoor.htm

I like that article, thank you for sharing. While I don't agree with all of it (many of the "pros" can be turned with simple things such as microchipping, and do not apply to animals that live in very rural environments), it is, for the most part, balanced and informative.

Tabitharose

nollaig wrote:

What I meant was tha dogs can attack people and do that type of damage, Cats wont do that

there was a news article on tv3 last night about a cat in the us whose life was spared by the courts after he attached several of his owners neighbours. he was spared being pts on the condition that he be kept indoors for the rest of his life.....

gerrycollins

im gonna throw the whole thing into chaos here if ye all bare with me

I have an indoor cat who we adopted from the "wild"(she wandered in never left) we neutered her and got all her jabs etc and she is so content in the house(2yrs now) i dont think she would leave even though she makes a run for the door to be brought out by hand every now and then

once ages ago she got out and my wife was petrified but when my wife rattled one of her play balls the cat came runing back

now the next problem we have just had a baby girl and the cat is in a cattery at the mo and we are wondering what the cats reaction to the baby will be tomorrow when we bring her home!!

the wife is saying that if it doesnt work out the cat will have to go out but i dont want the cat to get the impression that we are throwing it out cause of the new baby,i migth accicdently leave the door open see her reaction but i know if it doesnt come back my wife will be devastated (it was our baby before this) so how can i win,plus god knows what the cat will bring back into the house with it!

I think the baby and cat will get along fine and most of the stories i have heard are friend of a friend and not actual first hand anyone here have a similar situation?any advice appreciated

Garth

eiretamicha wrote:

I like that article, thank you for sharing. While I don't agree with all of it (many of the "pros" can be turned with simple things such as microchipping, and do not apply to animals that live in very rural environments), it is, for the most part, balanced and informative.

It's funny how nobody actually says "I don't care about our ecological balance, about birds, mice or other native creatures. I also don't care that my cats use someone's garden as a toilet, possibly endangering children who play there. It's easier for me to think my cat is happy outdoors so I don't have to change a litter tray, and if he gets sick and dies from a preventable disease, or dies being hit by a car, oh well. I simply don't have the inclination to play with my cat enough or to actually provide an adequate environment." When they obviously feel that way.

Tabitharose

http://cats.about.com/cs/catmanagement101/a/newbabyandcat.htm

new baby & your cat

eiretamicha

Garth wrote:

It's funny how nobody actually says "I don't care about our ecological balance, about birds, mice or other native creatures. I also don't care that my cats use someone's garden as a toilet, possibly endangering children who play there. It's easier for me to think my cat is happy outdoors so I don't have to change a litter tray, and if he gets sick and dies from a preventable disease, or dies being hit by a car, oh well. I simply don't have the inclination to play with my cat enough or to actually provide an adequate environment." When they obviously feel that way.

Seeing as I have one indoor/outdoor cat, and one strictly indoor kitty who only goes outside on a leash, I do feel the need to point out that I do, indeed, have a litter try.

As I have been a veterinary technician since the age of 16, both my cats are thoroughly vaccinated against Rabies, Leukemia (FeLV), and Aids (FIV)--I don't, however, agree with the chemical composition of the FIP vaccine, so my kitties are not vaccinated against that one.

My husband stays at home right now while waiting for his work authorization, and my indoor cat is his baby. I can show you about 30 pictures of my kitties that my husband takes of them almost every day. My dog, as well, if you'd like to see those. My outdoor/indoor kitty, Jezebel? Yep, her too. In fact, she mostly stays in our rather large back yard, and actually enjoys chasing after toys outside--toys that we throw for her.

They are fed a very pure, fresh diet of raw meat and bones, which can be quite pricey on only one income. Alas, my animals mean more to me than the likes of you could ever possibly understand, so my husband and I go without in order to give the best care possible to my animals.

As for ecological balance? That was long ago disrupted by the introduction of foreign plant and animal life, and will never be restored to its natural state. Ever. No matter how many cats we keep prisoner.

eiretamicha

Just thought you all might like to see pictures of my poor understimulated animals who live in an inadequate environment because I dont' care enough about them to provide for them and play with them.













And the famous litterbox!

Arcadian

eiretamicha wrote:

Alas, my animals mean more to me than the likes of you could ever possibly understand,

With respect ''the likes of you'' is an awful way to refer to anybody:(

Regarding the FIV vaccine, have you any links to up to date research on it? It's not available on this side of the world and everything i've found on line is pretty out-dated and suggests that it is relatively ineffective as well as the problem of cats testing positive for the disease once vacc'd.

eiretamicha

Arcadian wrote:

With respect ''the likes of you'' is an awful way to refer to anybody:(

Regarding the FIV vaccine, have you any links to up to date research on it? It's not available on this side of the world and everything i've found on line is pretty out-dated and suggests that it is relatively ineffective as well as the problem of cats testing positive for the disease once vacc'd.

You're absolutley right, "the likes of you" is a terrible way to refer to somebody. But I also didn't appreciate basically being called an irresponsible pet-owner. That made my temper boil, as I'm sure it would anyone. Still, I shouldn't have said it.

If given the chance, and if I lived in a rural area, I would take back almost all the vaccinations I have ever given to my animals barring the Rabies vaccination, but that's because I live in Central Florida where Rabies is a big problem. The risks these vaccines pose far outweigh the benefits.

The FIV vaccine does indeed cause an FIV test to come up positive--something to think about should your kitty ever need to be rehomed (as new owners may not know your kitty has been vaccinated, and therefore think kitty has FIV). According to Dr. Pitcairn, as far as is known, FIV is spread only through bite wounds--from fighting--not from close physical or sexual contact. Therefore, the disease is more common in unneutered males. A common symptom of this disease is an inflamed mouth with periodontal disease and loose teeth. Prevention is the most important way to view this disease, because once established, it is too late. Keeping your cat healthy by using a raw, fresh diet increases its chance of resistance, and of course, keeping it from roaming and fighting significantly reduces the chance of infection.

The most important thing to remember is to NEVER vaccinate a kitty that is suspected of having FIV (or Leukemia for that matter) as this stresses the body and depresses the immune system.

CookieCat

Well people like us is as good as it gets in Ireland and sometimes I am down right ashamed to be Irish by the way we as a nation view our animals.
Point 1. Where did I direct that you were an irresponsible cat owner by not stimulating your cat(s) Even if I squint I can't se that.
Point 2. The human emotion re projection. Your choice of diet for your cats. Did they decide that or did you on their behalf.

Perhaps the good ole US of A has got it right, but somehow I don't think so either. I have never worked in animal welfare in the states but Jan who runs kitten adoption has been over a few times and is in contact with Alley cats and Dr Susan Little et al. So we are not blindly advocating INDOOR HOMES. We again have studied the FACTS,the research and based our re homing criteria on that.

Sarah I am converse with your rescue in fact by proxy a few years ago I transported a dog half way to Galway from Saggart pound which I belive went to you. Strange lady called Gail (I think) was involved...Strange in a whacky way. And I belive you do sterling work with these dogs.:)

The point I am making to you Sarah about the breeds we chose to rescue or get involved with is to know the breed inside out do the research, keep up to date with information. I chose to help out with cats, knowing that Jan does know her stuff INSIDE out. And I would challenge anyone to constructively disprove that. So I shall stick with her, her rescue and her knowledge and I am not for shifting thanks.

I am not involved in Bull Breed rescue, as I don't know enough about the animal. And it would be very irresponsible for me to rescue and re home a breed I have little or no researched knowledge in.

As for the comment about the FAT indoor cat that was un called for.

fuzzywiggle

Aaaah Eiretamicha!! Just had to say those cats are absolutely adorable!! My cats are exactly like the one in the second picture! One of them even sleeps like that too! They look very happy

eiretamicha

CookieCat, I was replying to Garth, not to you, when I made that snide remark about "the likes of you" in response to his insinuation that I was an irresponsible pet-owner, and I was in no way referring to "people in Ireland" but instead to close-minded people who can't understand why the whole world doesn't agree with 100% of everything they say. We will never all agree on absolutley everything, and that's ok! The world would be so boring if everyone believed the same thing all the time.

Point 2. The human emotion re projection. Your choice of diet for your cats. Did they decide that or did you on their behalf.

I'm not sure I understand this one. My human emotions have nothing to do with the diet I feed my cats. I feed my cats a pure diet of fresh food because it is as close to the natural diet they would eat in the wild. Feeding an animal meat-flavoured cereal is quite simply the same as feeding your child chocolate-covered protein bars for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Sure, protein bars are loaded with vitamins and minerals, but they are also loaded with sugars, hydrogenated oils, and preservatives. It's simply not a healthy, natural diet. I feed my animals a fresh, raw diet because that's what's necessary for them to maintain optimal health. I feed them this diet because it's the right thing to do. It has nothing to do with my human emotions.

I don't understand why this debate has to continue. I believe that cats should be allowed outdoors, you do not. There are many points I do agree with you on, though, such as providing enclosed outdoor environments for kitty, taking them out on a leash, and not allowing them to roam the streets if you live in an area with high-levels of traffic. I simply cannot agree with you, however, on the fact that cats can happily and healthily stay indoors for the duration of their lives. It just isn't natural.

If I have said anything on here that offended anyone, I apologize, as that truly was not my intention.

eiretamicha

fuzzywiggle wrote:

Aaaah Eiretamicha!! Just had to say those cats are absolutely adorable!! My cats are exactly like the one in the second picture! One of them even sleeps like that too! They look very happy

Thank you! They're my babies!!

nollaig

there was a news article on tv3 last night about a cat in the us whose life was spared by the courts after he attached several of his owners neighbours. he was spared being pts on the condition that he be kept indoors for the rest of his life.....

Geez, 1 case in the whole world and it was probably a case of people over reacting, It is America after all

EGAR

CookieCat wrote:

Sarah I am converse with your rescue in fact by proxy a few years ago I transported a dog half way to Galway from Saggart pound which I belive went to you. Strange lady called Gail (I think) was involved...Strange in a whacky way. And I belive you do sterling work with these dogs.:)

The point I am making to you Sarah about the breeds we chose to rescue or get involved with is to know the breed inside out do the research, keep up to date with information. I chose to help out with cats, knowing that Jan does know her stuff INSIDE out. And I would challenge anyone to constructively disprove that. So I shall stick with her, her rescue and her knowledge and I am not for shifting thanks.

I am not involved in Bull Breed rescue, as I don't know enough about the animal. And it would be very irresponsible for me to rescue and re home a breed I have little or no researched knowledge in.

As for the comment about the FAT indoor cat that was un called for.

Hehe, you measured Gail up all right . Haven't heard from her in years. Last I heard she withdrew from it all as her nerves couldn't take it .

I am not attacking the way you or Jan are re-homing cats. All I am saying is that we are of different opinion.

I do not choose to rescue cats, they are dumped on me and the few (mostly kittens) that end up here will be rehomed into rural homes with the option of being outside. I live remote and I re-home the cats locally so that I can check up on the spaying/neutering as well as to make the HC's easier for me.

The remark of the FAT cat indoors was not from me.

Sarah

Garth

eiretamicha wrote:

As for ecological balance? That was long ago disrupted by the introduction of foreign plant and animal life, and will never be restored to its natural state. Ever. No matter how many cats we keep prisoner.

So... other people have wrecked it so why bother trying? Loads of birds, who cares if we lose another species. Jeez. Money on you driving an SUV and having the exact same answer for that.

As for "the likes of you" and calling other people's cats fat, sure go ahead if it makes you feel big.

I DO hope your kitties are happy and well cared for and VERY much hope they never meet a grizzly end like so many outdoor cats do.

I simply cannot agree with you, however, on the fact that cats can happily and healthily stay indoors for the duration of their lives. It just isn't natural.

Cats in this part of the world isn't natural. Tonnes of metal and plastic hurtling down the road at 60 mph isn't natural. If you don't think cats have evolved to eat cooked food, then you can't possibly believe they've evolved to cope with modern traffic, machinery and sadists. If natural what you're worried about, don't own a cat. Don't wear polyester, and don't drive a car. Live in the forest and eat berries. That's natural... I guess.

Have you ever noticed when people disagree with something they always say "it's not natural"... gays, blood transfusions, urbanisation, etc. Total cop-out.