NTL USB Modem Question

mang87

Is USB limited to a certain speed? What can it handle max? I have 10Mb line from NTL, and I only get 4Mb when I connect the modem via USB. When I have it connected via Ethernet I get the full 10Mb....

Any ideas?

paulm17781

Use ethenet!

mang87

Oh sorry I should explain more.

I need to use the USB because I need to use my pc to share internet over the network. When I connect Ethernet directly to the router I get a nice, stable 10Mb connection. When I go Modem->Router->Pc I get crappy unstable speeds(from 2-3Mbps). I need to connect to the modem Via usb and connect my Router to my PC and enable internet sharing...

Foxwood

mang87 wrote:

Is USB limited to a certain speed? What can it handle max? I have 10Mb line from NTL, and I only get 4Mb when I connect the modem via USB. When I have it connected via Ethernet I get the full 10Mb....

USB 1.0 supported a maximum speed of 1.5Mb/s, USB 1.1 supported a maximum of 12Mb/s, USB 2.0 supports 480Mb/s. It's unlikely that you've got USB 1.0 ports on your PC, uness it's a really, really old PC.

These are all best case speeds. The actual quality of the hardware, and of the software (drivers) will have an impact.

Ethernet, on the other hand, has been around for a very, very long time, and the hardware and drivers are very efficient. Whenever you have a choice between ethernet and USB, ethernet is always the right answer!

paulm17781

Could you buy a second ethernet card for the pc? Routers are quite cheap these days too.

It just occurred to me, are you getting these speeds from the right-hand conrner in Windows? If so these are the speeds your computer hardware is running at. It doesn't mean you are getting 10.0bmps

Foxwood

mang87 wrote:

Oh sorry I should explain more.

I need to use the USB because I need to use my pc to share internet over the network. When I connect Ethernet directly to the router I get a nice, stable 10Mb connection. When I go Modem->Router->Pc I get crappy unstable speeds(from 2-3Mbps). I need to connect to the modem Via usb and connect my Router to my PC and enable internet sharing...

Do yourself a favour and spend €20 for an ethernet switch.

mang87

Ah... It seems someone on IRC solved my problem. There's nothing wrong with the router, I just had the Modem connected to the wrong port on the router. I was plugging it into, errr, the "internet" port? The same one I had my Eircom modem plugged into when I was with their ADSL service. The "internet" port must be capped at about 3.5mbps or something. I plugged the NTL modem into one of the LAN ports and everything is working fine now, I'm getting 10Mb.

Thanks anyway lads.

But now I've another problem...!!





Now my PC that is on wireless is not connecting to the internet at all... !! It's connected to the router, and _I'M_ getting internet, but it is not... !

mang87

I also cannot access the router interface, but I can on the pc with Wireless, and I'm not registering on the network. Perhaps the modem is conflicting with the LAN ports on the router?

[edit] I can access the cable modem(192.168.100.1), but not the router(192.168.01)

Foxwood

mang87 wrote:

Now my PC that is on wireless is not connecting to the internet at all... !! It's connected to the router, and _I'M_ getting internet, but it is not... !

Look, would you ever stop wasting peoples time and just describe exactly what equipment you've got, and what it is you're trying to achieve.

We could be running around like blue-arsed flies guessing at what the problem might be without the right information to solve the problem for you.

mang87

Foxwood wrote:

Look, would you ever stop wasting peoples time and just describe exactly what equipment you've got, and what it is you're trying to achieve.

We could be running around like blue-arsed flies guessing at what the problem might be without the right information to solve the problem for you.

Sorry I thought I had explained myself... Sorry I'm not very good this. You should see me when I walk into somewhere like PC world and try and explain whats wrong with my PC. You'd get a good laugh out of it.


Well

Equip:
Netgear WGR614v2
NTL Cable modem

What I'm trying to do? get the bloody internet to work on both pcs, one Wireless(other side of house), and one Wired(my pc, in the room with cable modem)

What I want to do is connect the NTL Modem to the Netgear router(on the internet port) and then connect my PC to the router(LAN port), then the network should work, and both PCs should have internet access. This is how it worked when I was using Eircon's DSL package. But I think the Netgear Internet port might be limited to a certain speed(low - like 3.5Mbps or thereabouts) because I can't get 10Mb when I try this setup. It probably worked fine with Eircom because it was only 3Mbps speed I was trying to use i with.
At the moment I have the NTL Modem connected to the Netgear router on one of the LAN ports, along with my PC, and now it has internet access, and has a downstream of 10Mbps. But, the pc on Wireless has no internet. I also cannot access the Netgear interface from my pc(Wired, ethernet). When I access the interface from the wireless PC, my pc is not registering on the network. Nor is the NTL modem(but it shouldn't, should it?)

I can access the NTL modem from this PC on 192.168.100.1, the wireless PC cannot, but the wireless can access the Netgear interface

Foxwood

mang87 wrote:

Sorry I thought I had explained myself... Sorry I'm not very good this. You should see me when I walk into somewhere like PC world and try and explain whats wrong with my PC. You'd get a good laugh out of it.


Well

Equip:
Netgear WGR614v2
NTL Cable modem

What I'm trying to do? get the bloody internet to work on both pcs, one Wireless(other side of house), and one Wired(my pc, in the room with cable modem)

What I want to do is connect the NTL Modem to the Netgear router(on the internet port) and then connect my PC to the router(LAN port), then the network should work, and both PCs should have internet access. This is how it worked when I was using Eircon's DSL package. But I think the Netgear Internet port might be limited to a certain speed(low - like 3.5Mbps or thereabouts) because I can't get 10Mb when I try this setup. It probably worked fine with Eircom because it was only 3Mbps speed I was trying to use i with.
At the moment I have the NTL Modem connected to the Netgear router on one of the LAN ports, along with my PC, and now it has internet access, and has a downstream of 10Mbps. But, the pc on Wireless has no internet. I also cannot access the Netgear interface from my pc(Wired, ethernet). When I access the interface from the wireless PC, my pc is not registering on the network. Nor is the NTL modem(but it shouldn't, should it?)

I can access the NTL modem from this PC on 192.168.100.1, the wireless PC cannot, but the wireless can access the Netgear interface

The Wireless PC is getting a DHCP address from the netgear - it's probably 192.168.1.something. The NTL gear, and the wired PC are both on a different Subnet, so they can't talk to the 192.168.1.x subnet (or rather they can, but they don't know how).

Connect to the Netgear from the wireless PC, and log in to the advanced settings. Go to the LAN IP Setup, and give the netgear the address 192.168.100.254 (on the same subnet as the NTL, but a different address). Disable the DHCP setting. Save and restart. You should now be able to reconnect with the wireless machine, and get a 192.168.100.something address. If you don't, manually set a 192.168.100.something address, and everything should work.

By the way, the WAN port of the Netgear is 10-BaseT. That's a 10Mbit interface, it's not imited to 3Mb/s.

mang87

Foxwood wrote:

The Wireless PC is getting a DHCP address from the netgear - it's probably 192.168.1.something. The NTL gear, and the wired PC are both on a different Subnet, so they can't talk to the 192.168.1.x subnet (or rather they can, but they don't know how).

Connect to the Netgear from the wireless PC, and log in to the advanced settings. Go to the LAN IP Setup, and give the netgear the address 192.168.100.254 (on the same subnet as the NTL, but a different address). Disable the DHCP setting. Save and restart. You should now be able to reconnect with the wireless machine, and get a 192.168.100.something address. If you don't, manually set a 192.168.100.something address, and everything should work.

By the way, the WAN port of the Netgear is 10-BaseT. That's a 10Mbit interface, it's not imited to 3Mb/s.

Sweet


I'm not sure how I assign my pc an address manualy. I'm a complete n00b at this stuff, sorry I do that in window somewhere, don't I? On the local area connection... ?

Foxwood

mang87 wrote:

Sweet


I'm not sure how I assign my pc an address manualy. I'm a complete n00b at this stuff, sorry I do that in window somewhere, don't I? On the local area connection... ?

DHCP might work okay from the NTL box to your wireless PC, so try that first. If it doesn't work, then Start/Control Panel. Make sure you're in "Classic View" (left side menu). Double Click "Network Connections", right click your Wireless connection, select Properties, double-click Internet Protocol, select "Use the Following IP Address".

192.168.100.102
255.255.255.0
192.168.100.1

For the DNS server addresses, check what the other PC is using (open a command prompt and type IPCONFIG /ALL )

mang87

Hmmm... When I do that, I can connect to the Netgear, and see the other PC, but now neither has bloody internet...

Foxwood

mang87 wrote:

Hmmm... When I do that, I can connect to the Netgear, and see the other PC, but now neither has bloody internet...

Again, you're not posting enough information!!!!

What IP address does each device now have? I'm guessing that you didn't disable the DHCP function on the Linksys, as I suggested.

mang87

My ip address: 192.168.100.204
Wireless Ip: 192.168.100.205
Router: 192.168.100.254

I tried it with DHCP and without...


I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and get new hardware. This is melting my buzz :mad:


Can I get like a wireless cable router? or do I have to use the NTL Modem?

Foxwood

mang87 wrote:

My ip address: 192.168.100.204

That obviously came from the Netgear, not from the NTL modem, which means you have DHCP enabled on the Netgear, and the PCs don't know what DNS address to use. (That's why I told you to look up th DNS addresses on the working PC).

Wireless Ip: 192.168.100.205
Router: 192.168.100.254

I tried it with DHCP and without...

Do as you were told and disable DHCP on the Netgear. Reboot the PC. Verify that it can access the internet. verify that it can access the Netgear. Don't even bother wasting your tie with the wireless machine until the PC can talk to both the Internet and the Netgear.

This is "melting your buzz" because you couldn't be arsed stopping to think about how it's supposed to work. You're chasing your tail and panicing, instead of taking it nice and slow, one step at a time.

Once the PC is talking to both the Internet and the Netgear, then, and only then, reboot the wireless machine, and see if it gets a DHCP address from the NTL router. Only if it doesn't, should you set the static address.

mang87

Foxwood wrote:

That obviously came from the Linksys, not from the NTL modem, which means you have DHCP enabled on the Netgear, and the PCs don't know what DNS address to use. (That's why I told you to look up th DNS addresses on the working PC).

Wireless Ip: 192.168.100.205
Router: 192.168.100.254

Do as you were told and disable DHCP on the Netgear. Reboot the PC. Verify that it can access the internet. verify that it can access the Netgear. Don't even bother wasting your tie with the wireless machine until the PC can talk to both the Internet and the Netgear.

This is "melting your buzz" because you couldn't be arsed stopping to think about how it's supposed to work. You're chasing your tail and panicing, instead of taking it nice and slow, one step at a time.

Once the PC is talking to both the Internet and the Netgear, then, and only then, reboot the wireless machine, and see if it gets a DHCP address from the NTL router. Only if it doesn't, should you set the static address.

Lol I did disable DHCP! I assigned the IP 192.168.100.204 myself!


and I am taking my time. I've been at this like 5 hours now, and it's really testing my patients I must say.

Alright, what I am supposed to do is, in order:

1.Disable DHCP on the netgear
2.Turn off pc -
3.unplug NTL Modem and netgear router - wait 30 seconds, as per NTL's advice on the modem
4.Connect the NTL modem and my PC to the LAN port on the netgear(as opposed to the WAN/Internet port)
5.Connect the NTL Modem, and my pc, to the Netgear router on the LAN ports.
6.Wait 30 seconds for NTL Modem to connect, then turn on the netgear, wait for netgear, then turn on PC.
7.Stop eye from twitching, sip some tea, wait for PC to boot, refrane from kicking it, and verify that it can access the net

that correct?

Once I get this far, I'll come back

[edit] BTW, "DNS server" comes up as 192.168.100.254 (my router)... so that's what I should set it as, yeah?

Foxwood

mang87 wrote:

Lol I did disable DHCP! I assigned the IP 192.168.100.204 myself!

What the ?>*&^% did you that for? Your PC was working (getting a DHCP address from the NTL router), why would you change it ?

1.Disable DHCP on the netgear
2.Turn off pc -
3.unplug NTL Modem and netgear router - wait 30 seconds, as per NTL's advice on the modem
4.Connect the NTL modem and my PC to the LAN port on the netgear(as opposed to the WAN/Internet port)
5.Connect the NTL Modem, and my pc, to the Netgear router on the LAN ports.
6.Wait 30 seconds for NTL Modem to connect, then turn on the netgear, wait for netgear, then turn on PC.

As the Netgear isn't doesn't need to get a DHCP address from the NTL modem, there's no need to turn off the Netgear when you're rebooting the NTL modem. In the first instance, (PC to Netgear to NTL modem) the Netgear is just a "dumb" switch - you're not using any of it's built in inteligence (technically speaking, any "switch" involves some intelligence, but that's not relevant to the discussion, I'm just mentioning it for the benefit of the nitpickers out there).

7.Stop eye from twitching, sip some tea, wait for PC to boot, refrane from kicking it, and verify that it can access the net

that correct?

Once I get this far, I'll come back

That'll get you back to where you were 2 hours ago.

Once you've got that working, you can start solving the wireless problem - and it'll be easier to do once you're sure that the Netgear box itself is talking to the internet properly.

[edit] BTW, "DNS server" comes up as 192.168.100.254 (my router)... so that's what I should set it as, yeah?

You're jumping ahead again. That DNS address was set by the netgear in DHCP mode, when you couldn't talk to the Internet. It's not the address you want to use.

mang87

Sweet Jesus! I don't understand this!


I turned DHCP _OFF_ on the netgear, right... So, I turn everything off, then start it all back up. I'm _STILL_ getting:

Default Gateway: 192.168.0.1
DHCP Server: 192.168.0.1
DNS Server: 192.168.0.1

Why the hell

mang87

Alright, it's obvious that this poxy NTL modem cannot connect 2 pcs to the net at the same time. How do I know? Becuase im on the Wireless PC atm posting. The other pc is off.

I turned off all of the computers, and the modem, started the modem, left it for 30 seconds, and then turned on the Wireless PC. And lo and behold, it has internet. When I turned on the other pc(my one), it cannot access the internet. EEENTERESTING?? :mad:

Foxwood

mang87 wrote:

Alright, it's obvious that this poxy NTL modem cannot connect 2 pcs to the net at the same time. How do I know? Becuase im on the Wireless PC atm posting. The other pc is off.

I turned off all of the computers, and the modem, started the modem, left it for 30 seconds, and then turned on the Wireless PC. And lo and behold, it has internet. When I turned on the other pc(my one), it cannot access the internet. EEENTERESTING?? :mad:

I'm pretty sure I've read about NTL users getting multiple PCs online by using a simple ethernet hub to share the connection. But I can't say for sure - you'd need to get someone who has used it to say for sure.

What IP address did you have on the laptop when it was working? Were both the wired and wireless PCs set for DHCP (automatic IP addresses)?

maxheadroom

mang87 wrote:

Alright, it's obvious that this poxy NTL modem cannot connect 2 pcs to the net at the same time. How do I know? Becuase im on the Wireless PC atm posting. The other pc is off.

I turned off all of the computers, and the modem, started the modem, left it for 30 seconds, and then turned on the Wireless PC. And lo and behold, it has internet. When I turned on the other pc(my one), it cannot access the internet. EEENTERESTING?? :mad:

You need a router to connect more than one PC to the net, a simple switch / hub won't do. The NTL modem will only assign one IP address to the first device that requests one after the modem is powered on.

In order for this to work, you need to connect the ntl modem to the WAN port on your router. This tells the router to get an IP address from the modem and use that address to access the internet. It then acts as a 'bridge' between your network (the LAN ports and wireless devices) and the internet.


Have you followed the steps in this document? Maybe look at http://kbserver.netgear.com/products/wgr614v2.asp for more inspiration.

It is possible to share the ntl connection among several PCs with a properly configured router - we have a Windows PC, a linux server connected via ethernet and upwards of two laptops connected wirelessly here with an SMC 2804WBRP-G.

mang87

Well you see there's the problem, I get bloody awful speeds when I connect the NTL modem to the WAN port. <1Mbps

mang87

Foxwood wrote:

I'm pretty sure I've read about NTL users getting multiple PCs online by using a simple ethernet hub to share the connection. But I can't say for sure - you'd need to get someone who has used it to say for sure.

What IP address did you have on the laptop when it was working? Were both the wired and wireless PCs set for DHCP (automatic IP addresses)?

Yeah both were set to DHCP. I tried copying the information and setting it manually into both pcs(different IP addresses that I aquired)

I tried setting my PC to manual, and leaving the wireless as DHCP, but that didn't work either.

maxheadroom

mang87 wrote:

Yeah both were set to DHCP. I tried copying the information and setting it manually into both pcs(different IP addresses that I aquired)

I tried setting my PC to manual, and leaving the wireless as DHCP, but that didn't work either.

This is not going to work - the ntl modem identifies the PC by its MAC address, and will only talk to one computer. Using router is the only way to share the connection between more than one PC (A PC running Internet Connection Sharing is acting as a router btw).

I'd suggest contacting netgear support and seeing if there is anything they can do about the low throughput through the WAN port. You could try this first though.

mang87

Damn, that's not working



I need to focus on getting the USB side to work. When I have the modem installed it comes up as Local Area Connection 3, and it says "Speed: 10Mb", but I'm only getting 3.5 ish... Maybe it's the modem?

Foxwood

mang87 wrote:

Damn, that's not working



I need to focus on getting the USB side to work. When I have the modem installed it comes up as Local Area Connection 3, and it says "Speed: 10Mb", but I'm only getting 3.5 ish... Maybe it's the modem?

That "Speed 10Mb" is only a nominal, local speed - it's not reporting what your actual internet connection speed is.

mang87

Foxwood wrote:

That "Speed 10Mb" is only a nominal, local speed - it's not reporting what your actual internet connection speed is.

My internet connection speed _IS_ 10Mb

But it's not the USB obviously since the connection says the speed is clocked to 10Mb, so wtf...

thund3rbird_

mang87 wrote:

I need to use the USB because I need to use my pc to share internet over the network. When I connect Ethernet directly to the router I get a nice, stable 10Mb connection. When I go Modem->Router->Pc I get crappy unstable speeds(from 2-3Mbps). I need to connect to the modem Via usb and connect my Router to my PC and enable internet sharing...

from my reading of the OP this looks to be the root of your problem.
you need to connect the router to the modem with ethernet - use the router for sharing the connection, not the PC

if you connect the modem to the pc with usb you will get MAX 10Mbps between the modem & pc - this is a max theoretical value. in reality (as it's prob usb 1.1) you will get about half that.
you are then trying to use the pc as a gateway with ICS & the router is connected to that.
the ethernet between the pc & router is [rated at a theoretical value] 100Mbps but if you check your throughput it will be much less
(if you've got win xp open task manager & check the networking tab)

.......
power everything off, modem back on first, wait for lights to stop flashing, then connect modem to router (the internet / wan port)

you then hardwire one pc to the router (to one of the LAN ports) & the other then has access wirelessly
you then have 3 other ports on the router free for any other devices

both PCs should have their tcp/ip props set to auto IP & DNS (obtained from the router)

make sure you have configured the router wan to obtain a dhcp address via the modem

see ftp://downloads.netgear.com/files/wgr614_v2_install_guide.pdf for install guide


BTW, have you tried to update the firmware on the router??
the WGR614 latest model is up to V6.
older versions may not be capable of high throughputs??.


regarding USB vs Ethernet - have a look at this from ntl UK site or this

Foxwood

mang87 wrote:

My internet connection speed _IS_ 10Mb

Purely as a matter of interest, how are you measuring this? Are you hitting a particulat speedtest site, or are you measuring it by downloading something?

Foxwood

thund3rbird_ wrote:

from my reading of the OP this looks to be the root of your problem.
you need to connect the router to the modem with ethernet - use the router for sharing the connection, not the PC.

The OP claims that that doesn't work for him - he says that his WAN port is only providing 3.5mb/s throughput. (It doesn't make much sense, I know, but there you go).

if you connect the modem to the pc with usb you will get MAX 10Mbps between the modem & pc - this is a max theoretical value. in reality (as it's prob usb 1.1) you will get about half that.

That's some wierd theory you've got there - USB 2.0 is well capable of exceeding the speed of a 100Mbps ethernet connection (that's one reason why external hard drves come with USB ports rather than ethernet ports). Full Duplex 10-BaseT should be better than USB 1.1 in almost every case (even though USB1.1 is faster on paper), but that's not normally noticable on a broadband connection.

the ethernet between the pc & router is [rated at a theoretical value] 100Mbps

The Netgear WGR614v2 does not have a 100-BaseT WAN port. Most home routers only support 10Mb/s WAN connections.

DemonOfTheFall

I have that router, and even though it's an absolute piece of shíte, I still get the full 10 Mb/s through the WAN port.

mang87

Foxwood wrote:

Purely as a matter of interest, how are you measuring this? Are you hitting a particulat speedtest site, or are you measuring it by downloading something?

I'm downloading, from heanet, and unreal.ie

I'll post sshots of what I get with each type of connection in a second.

mang87

Modem to router, to PC




USB to PC





Direct Ethernet to PC

mang87

Foxwood wrote:

(It doesn't make much sense, I know, but there you go).

No, it really doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? Can you see why my patience is slipping at this stage? It _SHOULD_ work, but it doesn't.

I am pretty sure I have the latest firmware on the router, but I'll double check

mang87

Alright, im going to stick with the USB, as it's the lesser of two evils, I atleast get just over 4Mb with it, until I find a better solution.


So now I need to enable internet sharing on my my, which I have done. How do I get the other pc to use my internet? They're both on the same network (set to HOME), I've run setup a home or small office network on this pc, and selected "This pc connects directly to the internet, the other pcs on the network connect through this PC..." and it's Shared my "local area connection 4", which is the USB Cable Modem. But it doesn't seem to be working...


[edit] should I disable DHCP on the router?

Foxwood

mang87 wrote:

No, it really doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? Can you see why my patience is slipping at this stage? It _SHOULD_ work, but it doesn't.

I am pretty sure I have the latest firmware on the router, but I'll double check

You might try tweaking your MTU and RWin settings, which should probably be different when going through an additional router for maximum throughput.

thund3rbird_

Foxwood wrote:

That's some wierd theory you've got there - USB 2.0 is well capable of exceeding the speed of a 100Mbps ethernet connection

emmmmmm...

thund3rbird_ wrote:

in reality (as it's prob usb 1.1)....

Foxwood wrote:

The Netgear WGR614v2 does not have a 100-BaseT WAN port. Most home routers only support 10Mb/s WAN connections.

which is why I mentioned:

thund3rbird_ wrote:

the WGR614 latest model is up to V6.
older versions may not be capable of high throughputs??.

BTW - the V6 model I referred to DOES have 10/100 WAN


with what the OP is trying to do (modem to pc with usb, pc to router with enet & ICS on the PC) is worse than using the router > modem config

he appears to be getting max 3.5 between modem & pc via usb from the screenshots

if this is the max that the USB allows then the WAN port on the router (which is apparently only allowing a max of 3.5Mbps) will not even be receiving this from the pc - if you take loss (usb port incoming > ethernet card outgoing) plus ICS into account

he could also enet from modem to pc (as he is getting 10megs), install a wireless card in the pc and use that to share the connection to the other pc

IMHO
I think it's time to splash out on a new router

Foxwood

thund3rbird_ wrote:

emmmmmm...

Don't worry about it, you're probaby not the only person who has difficulty with 3 digit numbers.

BTW - the V6 model I referred to DOES have 10/100 WAN.

The OP specifically said that he has a V2, and I specifically said that the V2 only has a 10Mb/s WAN port. The specs of the V6 are about as relevant as the specs of a Ford Mondeo to the OPs problem.