RTE in the money (they even mentioned to P word!)

mike65

So then RTE is doing very nicely from increased advertising revenues turning in a profit - sorry, surplus of €16.5m using thier new accounting standard or €9.3m using the previous system - a rise of about 33%. And this with a licence avoidence level of about 16%. The total income of RTE is about 370 million euro.

As an aside on one RTE radio report they actually used the dreaded P word but it was 'surplus' after that. I suspect a producer yelled something in the newscasters ear!

How should the revenue be used? Programming or technology? They mention HD but they may just be sop to expectation with the UK chanels now starting
Hi-Def broadcasts. My own view is that they have to invest in the quality of production, its sad that in 2006 many shows have the feel of 1986.

Mike.

flogen

I'd rather see it go to programming than tech tbh; obviously RTE should ensure that they aren't decades behind the rest, but what's the point in having lovely HD broadcasts when you can't stand watching their shows?
I'd be happy enough if it took them another year or so to get HD going, and at that it will be a slow pace; they've had some recent successes with homegrown content (probably due to last years pro..surplus) and a lot of misses but they should keep pumping money into it.
I'd also like to... nay expect to see some additional radio stations coming out on DAB over time; not sure what but it's bound to happen (RTÉ Sport radio, perhaps?)

edit: I must look at their report, does it say how much they made from TV licences as compared to advertising revenue and product sales? This year saw an increased effort to flog off DVD's on the RTE website, which I'm sure payed off to some degree.

mike65

The income is split nearly 50/50

Mike.

watty

I'd rather have better programming. Who cares if it is WS or HD if it is so rubbish content you never watch it?

In 1970s till 1983 I had only 4 UK channels. Now I have 1500 channels FTA and about what ever is in two Sky Mix packs. There is much less TV I am interested in watching.

I almost never watch Films on TV either now as if it is any good I have bought the DVD before TV release.

Ultimately TV & Radio are about CONTENT. I'd rather watch a decent B&W 4:3 film or show than HD "reality TV" Junk.

Round Cable

Perhaps they could use their PROFITS for some basic things first, like a FTV card scheme, a few Euro for fixing the DOGs and stop increasing the licence fee!

byte

I heard somewhere that RTE may start getting taxed on their Licence fee income.

Would seem like a good excuse for the next hike.

Mossy Monk

so the government will be taxing a tax?

The Bollox

Round Cable wrote:

a few Euro for fixing the DOGs

ah not come on, Anne Doyle isn't THAT bad

DublinWriter

mike65 wrote:

How should the revenue be used?

As usual, for shoring up the financial basket-case that RTE Radio 1 has become, losses increased between 2004 to 2005 to 20%, with RTE Radio 1 draining about 6 million out of the accounts.

However, figures for RTE Radio 2 aren't in yet, but it's been rumoured widely that Gerry Ryan's figures went through the floor and will continue to do so.

He's been the cash-cow for Radio 2, and it will be interesting to see if he can still command his €460,000 contract in future years.

mike65

I was thinking about 2FM, the station has no future in its current incarnation, or it should'nt anyway. Gerry Ryans gone from being the stations best asset to its biggest problem. He a middle-aged fella gabbing through 3 hours on a music channel and loosing listeners. Yet he is still the channels biggest listener draw so can they get rid? No. Can they shift him sideways to Radio 1, er no cos there is no slot availible for him.

If RTE has any balls, they'd simply "close" 2FM and revamp the whole thing turning it into something modeled after BBC radio 2 ie essentially grown-up music and arts/entertainment. Then the radio controller could turn radio 1 into a pure talk station.

Mike.

DMC

byte wrote:

I heard somewhere that RTE may start getting taxed on their Licence fee income.

Would seem like a good excuse for the next hike.

Corporation Tax, yes, it was on the front of the Irish Times late last week.

DublinWriter

mike65 wrote:

Then the radio controller could turn radio 1 into a pure talk station.

True, I thought about this myself, but I don't think even GR could survive the transition to R1. He's fast becoming an albatross to the whole network.

The best they could do is revamp the Radio network along BBC lines:

R1: Modern Music
R2: Tuberby, and MOR music, little chat
R3: Classical
R4: The bulk of R1's current output, no music, all spoken word.

DMC

You missed out on our mother tongue network

RTÉ have 4 national frequencies, and thats all it will ever be allowed on FM.

I think music does have a place on Radio 1, I do enjoy Ronan Collins show when I get the opportunity to listen to it. But it is obvious that there is a national 30-65 age group radio station needed. BBC R2 also works, in that it doesnt have a fixed playlist, unlike so many commercial stations.

It could work on DAB, though, if RTÉ are serious about it.

I think I'm getting a few people behind my thinking that Gerry Ryan must go from 2FM before it can be reshaped.
Hey Gerry, there's a vacancy for a morning jock on a new national station!

DublinWriter

DMC wrote:

You missed out on our mother tongue network

I was going to shove them into the fifth Radio Station, but I think they'd do better if they were forced to survive T na G style.

DMC wrote:

Hey Gerry, there's a vacancy for a morning jock on a new national station!

I think auld Gerry has had his chips career-wise. Let's bring him down the vets and give him a 'humane' send off.

watty

mike65 wrote:

I was thinking about 2FM, the station has no future in its current incarnation, or it should'nt anyway. Gerry Ryans gone from being the stations best asset to its biggest problem. He a middle-aged fella gabbing through 3 hours on a music channel and loosing listeners. Yet he is still the channels biggest listener draw so can they get rid? No. Can they shift him sideways to Radio 1, er no cos there is no slot availible for him.

If RTE has any balls, they'd simply "close" 2FM and revamp the whole thing turning it into something modeled after BBC radio 2 ie essentially grown-up music and arts/entertainment. Then the radio controller could turn radio 1 into a pure talk station.

Mike.

Good idea.

There is far too much music on RTE1.


2FM and BBC R1 in current form are fairly pointless in current form. R1 was invented to fill a demand getting filled by Pirate radio in 1960s. Records were bulky, not portable and very expensive in real terms compared with today's content. There is little argument for a Public service broadcasting service continuing to broadcast "pop" music now there is universal cheap portable availability. Unless they are going to concentrate on new unheard unsigned bands, live gigs, innovative music, niche music not available on Commercial Radio or High Street shops etc.

My three adult kids and two teenage kids think ANY pop music station is a waste of space. They buy CDs and make up their own MP3 playlists.

flogen

It begins:
http://www.rte.ie/arts/2006/0621/rte.html

RTÉ has today announced that it will seek a licence to begin a DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting) radio service on the east coast from Dublin to Louth later this year.

The announcement follows a successful six-month trial of DAB along the east coast involving RTÉ Radio 1, RTÉ 2fm, RTÉ Radió na Gaeltachta, RTÉ lyric fm, Today fm and WRN.

The new digital radio service will mean that RTÉ can provide listeners with a greater choice of programming.

No mention of what the new licence will cover... or if it will just be DAB licences for existing channels for now?

lawhec

2FM, as I understand it, receives no licence fee money and is run as a pure commercial operation. Its strongholds have always appeared to be in rural areas, it has never really performed that strongly in Dublin.

2FM and BBC R1 in current form are fairly pointless in current form. R1 was invented to fill a demand getting filled by Pirate radio in 1960s. Records were bulky, not portable and very expensive in real terms compared with today's content. There is little argument for a Public service broadcasting service continuing to broadcast "pop" music now there is universal cheap portable availability. Unless they are going to concentrate on new unheard unsigned bands, live gigs, innovative music, niche music not available on Commercial Radio or High Street shops etc.

I disagree. BBC Radio 1 is very much two seperate stations, popular in the morning and afternoons and specialist in the evening. Many bands own their livelyhoods to the late John Peel, for example. The station remains very popular not only in the UK but also in Ireland, partially thanks to its ad-free nature but also that it has DJs in the mornings and afternoons that have some personality in them, something that is hard to find in commercial stations outside of the big cities and while quite a few people are happy with back-to-back hits either all the time or just some, a good disc jockey can warm to a listener. The I-Pod generation is growing, but I think it'll be a long time yet before it gets even close to threatening the structure of radio as we know it.

Also, if it wasn't for radio stations, where would people hear music for the first time? While music downloads are becoming popular, unless you're using (Cough!) you have to pay to get the track. A few artists have used free downloads and the internet to make themselves get noticed (Artic Monkeys and Sandi Thom the most noticable) from which word of mouth spreads but it is ultimately radio or television, in either broadcast or internet streaming, is where most people still pick up hearing new music.

As RTÉ are now actively seeking to broadcast on DAB, it may now be time for them to look at their structure for broadcast radio. Allowing for reasonable funds, there's a case for a fifth station to be launched which could be focused on broadcasting on DAB with say a MW simulcast, maybe like the following...

RnaG: For obvious reasons, stays like it is... (FM, DAB)
Lyric FM: A possible case for the arts programmes on Radio 1 to be moved on to here, taking it to a similar path as BBC Radio 3 (FM, DAB)
2FM: Drop Gerry Ryan and to focus on commercial music only during "peak" hours. (Slightly controversial...) drop complete dependence on commercial activities for funding, allowing for between 20-25% of budget to come from licence fee which in return drops number of advert breaks during specialist programmes. (FM, DAB)
Radio 1: Split into two services - the current Radio 1 would become a more serious focused station for news, documentaries, serious interviews and factual entertainment (arts having been moved to Lyric FM) on FM & DAB. Another station would take have its own identity, but would "opt out" as such from Radio 1 with more lighter programming including sports commentaries, phone-ins, and some music programmes based on specialist themes on MW and DAB, which at other times would simulcast Radio 1, with possible room to expand in the future.

Elmo

Well you don't know whats going to be happening come september if Joe Duffy goes to NewsTalk.

Liveline could be hosted by Jerry Ryan and Ray D'arcy on 2FM.

Or maybe Jerry Ryan on Today FM and Ray D'arcy on NewsTalk.

Dave Fanning will be missed from RTE 2FM.

Unlike other channels (avoiding going into a rant about TV3) RTE must spend all of the money that it gets, its "surplus" will be used next year to fuel RTE rather then going in to corporate pockets (avoiding going into a rant about TV3).

seamus

Money should really go into programming. Any costs to setting up HD/Digital should come out the budget of the Dept. of Communications. After all, they're infrastructure costs.

JohnC.

Elmo wrote:

Dave Fanning will be missed from RTE 2FM.

Fanning is going/gone?

DMC

To Radio 1, after 7pm, in September.

Telefís

A BBC Radio 4 format for Radio 1 has been flagged for a long time now, notably by Gerry McCarthy of The Sunday Times, only again last week proposing that 2fm be transformed into a Radio 2 equivalent, also aborbing the music element of Radio 1. I largely agree with this, only that as always the problem is the transition phase - it takes a heck of a long time to shift and carefully fragment such an established and loyal audience as that of Radio 1 to their respective new slots across two stations.

Grerry Ryan is certainly the elephant in the room that everyone's seeking to ignore - from a housewive perspective he does sort of fill the role of Wogan in the UK, but simply doesn't fit into the rest of what 2fm's doing, not that it really knows what it's at either...

byte

DMC wrote:

To Radio 1, after 7pm, in September.

I think Fanning will still have a Sunday evening show on 2FM.

I used to listen to Fanning a lot in the evenings, until I started listening to Matt Cooper.

Fannings weeknight shows, a lot of topics being discussed he seemed out of his depth, or didn't really care. EG, talking about mp3 players and techie stuff, he's clueless.

But in saying that, when it came to new music etc, he is very good.

Elmo

I think Fanning will still have a Sunday evening show on 2FM.

Yes he will remain on sunday nights on 2FM.

A BBC Radio 4 format for Radio 1 has been flagged for a long time now, notably by Gerry McCarthy of The Sunday Times, only again last week proposing that 2fm be transformed into a Radio 2 equivalent, also aborbing the music element of Radio 1. I largely agree with this, only that as always the problem is the transition phase - it takes a heck of a long time to shift and carefully fragment such an established and loyal audience as that of Radio 1 to their respective new slots across two stations.

Grerry Ryan is certainly the elephant in the room that everyone's seeking to ignore - from a housewive perspective he does sort of fill the role of Wogan in the UK, but simply doesn't fit into the rest of what 2fm's doing, not that it really knows what it's at either...

You do realise that RTE might be better doing something different rather then following the BBC, which when they do (which is alot) we give out about them copying the BBC.

But I can see them continuing with their branding exercise.

RTE Radio 1
RTE Radio 2
RTE Rádio á 3
RTE Radio 4

RTE ONE
RTE TWO

And spend alot of money doing just that Re-branding, because when you want to sell **** its best to rebrand it until everyone realises it is **** again. And then its time for another rebranding exercise.

1FM
2FM
3FM
4FM

Network 1
Network 2

Seems like a good Idea to me

Phen

Elmo wrote:

1FM
2FM
3FM
4FM

Network 1
Network 2

LOL

But seriously I don't think RTÉ will rebrand 2fm to Radio 2 because they changed 2fm's logo only a few months ago. If they were going to change its name wouldn't they have done that instead of changing the logo?

I think they should use the surplus money to introduce a free-to-view system in 2008 when their deal with Sky runs out. When are negotiations on a new deal due to start? What do people think RTÉ will do in 2008?

byte

I don't think RTE know themselves what they'll do in 2008!

I was sort of surprised they didn't change 2fm to RTE Radio 2, same as what they done to Network 2/RTE2.

Though, maybe the identity crisis needs to be addressed, which will never happen with both Gerry Ryan and Marty Whelan there.

flogen

Phen wrote:

I think they should use the surplus money to introduce a free-to-view system in 2008 when their deal with Sky runs out. When are negotiations on a new deal due to start? What do people think RTÉ will do in 2008?

Well 2008 should see the start of a national DTT service (although it probably won't be until 2009, even though the 2 year trial will end in mid-late 2008... either way I'd say by then we'll know what services RTÉ are going to launch on DTT if any.

They should perhaps put some of the money into red button interactivity too... would be nice to see something

byte

I think they've already invested in a digital text application, that will make it easy for operators to make it write stuff simultaneously to Aertel? That was about 2 years ago now though.

Maybe, just maybe, they'll introduce a FTV satellite scheme too for those that will inevitably be unable to get DTT.

lostexpectation

shouldn' rte have some sort of international news analysis tv prog ala newsnight?

Phen

byte wrote:

Maybe, just maybe, they'll introduce a FTV satellite scheme too for those that will inevitably be unable to get DTT.

Are you saying that RTÉ will only be FTV on satellite for those who won't be able to recieve DTT? I thought people would eventually be able to choose whether to recieve RTÉ digitally through DTT or satellite like the BBC.

DMC

Phen wrote:

I thought people would eventually be able to choose whether to recieve RTÉ digitally through DTT or satellite like the BBC.

The problem with that is the degree of payment required.

As we know, we can't watch RTÉ digitally for free. We have to pay a service provider to access RTÉ in digital widescreen etc.

The problem here is, DTT will be probably be a "freeview" type service, so then, people can access RTÉ, in digital, for a little outlay and no ongoing running costs. You can see that there is a conflict there, between a "free" and subscription access to RTÉ. Most people will be able to get a free DTT signal, but those who can't, could face the prospect of only getting RTÉ in digital, by subscription.

Its a situation really that should be avoided, but because RTÉ are protective about their rights to foreign programmes, its not going to be easy. An FTV system is possible, but then that marries RTÉ long term to BSkyB, and the need for Sky digiboxes, paying NDS for encryption etc.

The BBC really went off on its own when it went FTA in 2003. We can be thankful that they did. ITV have followed, and who is to say that Channel 4 won't follow too. The BBC's version of Freesat has cooled considerably over the last while, while we couldve had it by now, in H1 2006, they and ITV are waiting until next year at the earliest, but given that that has happened, are some people beginning to question if it will ever occur?

DMC

lostexpectation wrote:

shouldn' rte have some sort of international news analysis tv prog ala newsnight?

Doesn't Prime Time fills that role? RTÉ doesn't have the network of foreign bureaux that the BBC has.

Minor Edit: Post sechs tausend.

Telefís

But what about universality of provision? How could RTÉ possibly charge for access to its services via satellite? Would it just not have to swallow the pill and pay for the satellite hosting itself?
In any event, what do you mean byte and DMC that RTÉ will have to provide for those who cannot receive DTT - how large is this likely to be and why? Surely DTT has almost the same coverage as analogue, or near enough to it? And even if some extra areas need to be filled in, surely a few more transmitter sites would be a heck of a lot cheaper than being hosted on a satellite service indefinitely to cater for a small minority?

Also, the fact that so many homes now have satellite infrastructure installed in their homes isn't necessarily reason enough either to launch a sat service considering many of them will continue to use it for UK Freesat, forcing RTÉ to DTT in these homes. Is it possible that RTÉ could eventually host itself via encryption on the Freesat satellite so these homes could use the same dish and box?

DMC

Telef&#237 wrote: »

But what about universality of provision? How could RTÉ possibly charge for access to its services via satellite? Would it just not have to swallow the pill and pay for the satellite hosting itself?
In any event, what do you mean byte and DMC that RTÉ will have to provide for those who cannot receive DTT - how large is this likely to be and why? Surely DTT has almost the same coverage as analogue, or near enough to it? And even if some extra areas need to be filled in, surely a few more transmitter sites would be a heck of a lot cheaper than being hosted on a satellite service indefinitely to cater for a small minority?

RTÉ already do charge for access via satellite. Sky collect the money!

DTT coverage in the UK does not mirror analogue coverage. If it did, everyone who can get the 4 UK channels via analogue aerial would have Freeview boxes by now. That will change after 2012 when the UK turns off analogue, but not until then, and even at that, it wont be at the same power.
The UK has said that for places where DTT isn't feesable, then satellite will be provided as the alternative.

A signal from a geosynchronous orbit that covers 99.9% of the population is a heck of a lot cheaper than a few hundred relays serving blackspots in the middle of Kerry.

Telef&#237 wrote: »

Also, the fact that so many homes now have satellite infrastructure installed in their homes isn't necessarily reason enough either to launch a sat service considering many of them will continue to use it for UK Freesat, forcing RTÉ to DTT in these homes. Is it possible that RTÉ could eventually host itself via encryption on the Freesat satellite so these homes could use the same dish and box?

Misnomer. The "Freesat" satellite will be the same satellite (or group of satellites) that Sky currently use. 390,000+ Sky customers in Ireland.
If you get a FTA receiver from Lidl, for instance, you get the free channels that Sky also have, just none of the pay channels.
Satellite, unlike DTT, is more flexable in the amount of channels it can host etc.

What you have just said sounds like something out of the 80's. Why have satellite, cos the 2 RTÉ channels are good enough!? *boggle*

Telefís

What?! Where did I suggest that?
Also I was mostly asking questions, no need to get confrontational - 16:9 hasn't even been mentioned yet

RTÉ's purpose on Sky is not to gain access to more households (households that are still entitled to free-to-air access to RTÉ), but rather to increase the station's prominence in satellite homes and make it more relevant to, and fit in better with, these households and their viewing habits.

I have no objection at all to RTÉ being on satellite, and like others welcome the notion; as mentioned it is a highly flexible transmission solution. What is objectionable however is the notion that anyone should have to pay to view RTÉ via satellite, not to mention on top of their licence fee - it runs completely counter to the tenet of universality of provision. If the cost for whatever reason is too much for RTÉ to pay, well then the State should pay - also taking into account that all Irish television services are affected by this, not just RTÉ.

I am glad to hear that households could use the same dish used by Sky and Freesat for Astra. But is there an alternative EPG provider as yet to Sky? And could RTÉ be encoded just for Ireland? Sorry these questions have been asked before, but you often end up with conflicting answers!

To get back on the thread topic, the surplus funds will of course be ploughed back into the station but they shouldn’t go to DTT as that’s (mostly) up to the state to pay for. A greater investment in home-produced programming should be made, some put into reserves, and some spent on technical upgrades. HD is certainly looming its head at this stage, yet I’d imagine right now RTÉ are just investing in new Beta 16:9!

byte

Well, there'd be nothing to stop RTE dual-encrypting in both Videoguard, and one other format for FTV purposes. They don't neccessarily need to stick with Astra2/Eurobird position either. They could go for a cheaper option away from the bird primarily used for British TV (funny, myself and MYOB had a discussion on this one night).

They could use Sirius! Channel 6 is already there!

Of course, this is all speculation and nobody is gonna know for a long while. I'd doubt if even the Govt or RTE NL know what's gonna happen in the longer term.

Elmo

Haven't BT done a deal to start testing Digital TV in Louth and Dublin? (So much for decentralisation)

TV3, TG4, Today FM, Channel 6, Setanta Sport, Newstalk, City Channel will all have to pay to be on the RTE Digital Service when it is up an running surely this is the money that should be used to provide Digital services and not Government Subcidies? Plus the money that RTE would have to use to place their TV and Radio stations on the Digital service.

orginally posted by phen

If they were going to change its name wouldn't they have done that instead of changing the logo?

They basically have renamed RTE 2fm RTE Radio 2. It wouldn't be hard to use the new 2 and the word RADIO from the current RTE Radio 1 logo now would it. But I am sure RTE could find some body to take 500,000 of their hands for that idea. :rolleyes:

www.rte.ie/radio1
www.rte.ie/2fm

DMC

Telef&#237 wrote: »

What?! Where did I suggest that?
Also I was mostly asking questions, no need to get confrontational - 16:9 hasn't even been mentioned yet

LOL, I don't get narky at 3 in the morning No confrontation, but maybe I'm getting vibes that you may not fully understand fully the intricacies of transmission and broadcasting today, and how it all comes together and complements/competes. If I'm wrong in that assumption, correct me, but that's the signals I'm picking up. I'll try to fill in any gaps that you might be falling into.

From you post earlier, you advocated transmitters over satellite for use of getting universality of provision. As I said in my reply, as you correctly queried, satellite reception is now so widespread across the country that its not a small minority anymore. Well over 95% of those dishes are aimed at a satellite that caters directly for an Irish audience.

I agree totally that once DTT is in place, RTÉ via satellite must be free as well, not only for those whom DTT won't reach because of cost etc, but for the entire population who have satellite equipment.

Back onto topic, if RTÉ are going to have to pay Revenue for Corporation Tax, and that the EC investigation into competitiveness of the Irish TV market comes down on the wrong side for RTÉ, I'd certainly want the government to pay for DTT and provision of RTÉ et al free on satellite, how ever that might work.

Elmo

With TV3 earning up to 80 million in advertising revenue, The EU commission will not look too badly at a monopoly that RTÉ might have. Plus they would have to look at the other foreign TV stations spread accross the market, who take advertising revenue from the Irish public.

I could not agree with taxing RTÉ on their TV Licence fee.

DMC

Elmo wrote:

With TV3 earning up to 80 million in advertising revenue, The EU commission will not look too badly at a monopoly that RTÉ might have.

It's not that issue in this case. What they are looking at really is if RTÉ has recieved any money for something that isn't in the public interest e.g. from the government. Thats what the got NOS, the Dutch central PSB, into the bother of paying back €76.3m plus interest.

Here, really, the only directly state funded channel is TG4. On that basis, RTÉ might not get stung, but who knows what gems this investigation might find, like cross subsidising something thats pure commercial...

Telefís

Irish Times article here:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2006/0617/3752246921HMRTELOOT.html


Thanks for the various answers DMC and byte - things are certainly unclear at the minute. And just as mentioned, speaking with someone in RTÉ in a role with influence in all of this, they were equally looking towards 2008 with uncertainty with what was going to happen, but optimism also to be fair, and the many possibilites hopefully afforded at that time. One thing was very clear though: the reduced role of DTT in the digital future. Satellite is certainly on the agenda - really at this stage it's only a matter of choosing someone to provide the various services in the long term.

And you're right DMC - I have a rounded but not detailed knowledge of transmission technologies. But to clarfiy I didn't avocate a transmitter-based system - only questioned its possible merits over the previously suggested exorbitant cost of a sat service, so much so that households would have to pay for its use. In that context, it's not a bad point to make, but the sat costs seem to have been 'somewhat' exaggerated shall we say...