A perspective on the news that Islamophobia on the rise in Ireland

juslookin

I was interested to see recent headlines stating that "Islamophobia was on the rise" in Ireland.

There were no actual examples mind you, stories stating in black and white that "Incidences of anti-Muslim abuse are on the rise in Ireland" and that "Physical and verbal abuse against Muslims in Ireland is on the rise" that didn't give any actual examples were good enough. The media know that a while "prejudice" is wrong, a "good prejudice" the Irish are racist and minorities are innocent unpolicised victims with no political agendas is OK, so there is no need to investigate.

All right minded people should say "Down with that sort of thing" and so we don't need any evidence.

Because according to the Equality Authority, "negative portrayals of Muslims in the media are leading to more attacks. A number of famous Muslim writers and actors are spoke about Islamophobia in Dublin in a conference organised by the Equality Authority to raise the profile of the issue. Chief Executive Neil Crowley said, Xenophobia is a global phenomenon so we would be foolish to think we were exempt from it.”

While "Islamophobia" is very very bad and very very sad, completley unsubstantiated reports of it, while regrettable, are useful to some, such as "community leaders" and their political groups who may wish to force their intertwined religious/political agendas in their new homes.

In the UK we hear a lot in about the "Rise" of "Islamophobia", from groups like MPAC, the MUSLIM PUBLIC AFFAIRS COMMITTEE, who have political objectives.

Because its a "bad thing", groups like MPAC provide figures which the BBC , the Guardian et al don't bother to challenge.

Have a look at this;

An example of a "Horrific Attack", a "Hijab Attack" with "Racism" and "Islamophobia" on a "Hijab Sister"

MPAC encouraging Muslims to protest about.

http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/2222/1/

AND THIS

http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?t=10949&page=1&pp=20

It's chock full of unsubstantiated, evidence free accusations, of "Islamophobia", "Racism" and a "Hajib Attack".

But this is the sort of thing that UK media and establishment takes seriously. You'll notice how it encourages Muslims to contact the media and the train company, to generally "make noise" about this "Islamophobia".

The UK's a lost cause now, but Ireland is next in line for the great Caliphate, perhaps next time you read about "a "rise" of "Islamophobia" in Ireland", or see a "Community Leader" on TV demanding their political objectives based on this claim, ask questions, who is providing the figures, what evidence they are providing the figures on, and what they stand to gain from making the claims.

Dirk Gently

Did you not just contribute to Islamophobia by implying that claims made by Muslims about injustice are only meant to manipulate the public in order for them to achieve political aims? Does your suggestion that the UK is a lost cause and that Ireland is next not add to the misconceptions about Muslims.

Are you not in fact a pot calling a kettle black?

InFront

juslookin wrote:

The UK's a lost cause now, but Ireland is next in line for the great Caliphate, perhaps next time you read about "a "rise" of "Islamophobia" in Ireland", or see a "Community Leader" on TV demanding their political objectives based on this claim, ask questions, who is providing the figures, what evidence they are providing the figures on, and what they stand to gain from making the claims.

I agree with you that figures probably go unsubstantitaed some of the time, but how do you know the Guardian, for example, dont verify them?

As a Muslim in Dublin (or my parents would argue just someone with a muslim background:rolleyes: )Id have to agree that Muslim taunts are something which I began to experience for the first time since September 11th, and I mean that literally. I do not remember ever receiving underbreath comments or jeering before the rise of Islamic fundamentalism and the American invasions.

But its the usual suspects, kids (not just boys) aged 15 - 18, ignorant bus conductors, that type of thing.

Anyway Id agree we should substantiate figures, but I wouldnt say, just from personal experiences, that the term 'rise of islamophobia' is incorrect. Its definitely on the increase, whatever the extent.
Of course discrimination is also prevalent against other minority groups, and whether they are also experiencing a rise in racial abuse as well, I dont know. Overall Dublin is a quite amiable place despite what the political commentators sometimes say. It shouldnt happen in the first place, but you just cant explode at every snide or ignorant comment you hear.

projectmayhem

you've never met an asian dude before, you say hi and he kicks you in the nuts. next time you meet an asian dude, you'd turn sideways before saying a word to him...

some irish guys blow some cars up in the UK, you (an irish person) goes to the UK, you should probably expect some taunting and trouble.

a bunch of muslims fly planes into some buildings in america... if you're a muslim, you should probably expect some ****.

it's not fair, it's racist and simply just not moral, and wrong. but it's going to happen, and you can't do anything about it except ride it out until it dies down. it will die down, but it will take quite some time.

ChityWest

Irish people have always (and still do) have to deal with that crap in the uk - most just put their head down and get on with it. Not the end of the world. I totally reject the idea that muslims in Ireland have it worse than Irish people who have lived in the uk.

InFront

ChityWest wrote:

I totally reject the idea that muslims in Ireland have it worse than Irish people who have lived in the uk.

But who has said that... ever? Perosnally I think that the Irish living in London in the 80s had it worse than Muslims in Ireland today. England probably different.

ChityWest

InFront wrote:

But who has said that... ever? Perosnally I think that the Irish living in London in the 80s had it worse than Muslims in Ireland today. England probably different.

I dont think it was or is limited to the 80's or 90's either for that matter. Prejudice runs deep - especially in england and particularly regarding the Irish (imo) - and you can either make a huge song and dance about it - or you can ignore it & get on with it.

HelterSkelter

ChityWest wrote:

I dont think it was or is limited to the 80's or 90's either for that matter. Prejudice runs deep - especially in england and particularly regarding the Irish (imo) - and you can either make a huge song and dance about it - or you can ignore it & get on with it.

I have never come accross this with English people, they are always nice and polite to me.

juslookin

clown bag wrote:

Did you not just contribute to Islamophobia by implying that claims made by Muslims about injustice are only meant to manipulate the public in order for them to achieve political aims? Does your suggestion that the UK is a lost cause and that Ireland is next not add to the misconceptions about Muslims.

Are you not in fact a pot calling a kettle black?

No, I did not contribute to "Islamophobia", although I certainly was sarcastic.

I didn't suggest that claims made about Islamophobia are only meant to manipulate the public.

I gave an example.

You can choose whether to educate yourself or not to the realities of the growth in Islam, what this means in the UK and what it could mean for Ireland.

And you can choose whether the thousands who fought and died for self determination of who they imagined the Irish people were, will ultimately pale compared to a politically correct media and the ability of various groups to manipulate it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Seconded. But getting back on topic...

...another one is child-snatching. Soething along the lines of an abduction was attempted (and always foiled) somewhere in the West Dublin area (or "Muster") on two girls aged between 10-13. Sunday World did it at least once.

You just know it never bloody happened.

ChityWest

HelterSkelter wrote:

I have never come accross this with English people, they are always nice and polite to me.

I agree that 99.9% of them are absolutely fine and some of the soundest most decent people I know are english - having said that I did get a bottle across the eye socket in glasgow for having an irish accent (within less than an hour of arriving) and a knife pulled on me in london one day after a bomb went off. So theres probably an element of luck of the draw going on there. I think living in a navy or a squaddie-filled town may be a different sort of experience, prejudice wise. I still dont see prejudice against muslims in ireland is worse than anti-irish sentiment among some people in britain.

I do think though that if the day ever came when islamic-group bombs were to go off in Ireland we would probably be 100 times worse than the english were to the irish.

InFront

You can choose whether to educate yourself or not to the realities of the growth in Islam, what this means in the UK and what it could mean for Ireland.

What could it mean for Ireland/ UK compared to the influx or Eastern Europeans/ Northern Asians/ Africans???

Also, youre afraid that the rise in Islamic hatred will somehow pull a curtain over the Irish struggle for Independence? Read your post again, maybe you meant something different? Its not a competition man!

Hobbes

To the OP. You do know you can write or phone the newspaper in question and ask for the sources as to where they got the information from.

However comments like this speak volumes.

The media know that a while "prejudice" is wrong, a "good prejudice" the Irish are racist and minorities are innocent unpolicised victims with no political agendas is OK, so there is no need to investigate.

The majority of Muslims in Ireland are Irish citizens. So trying to lump them as something seperate to society to begin with is showing some prejudice.

HelterSkelter

Hobbes wrote:

The majority of Muslims in Ireland are Irish citizens

Where did you get this from? Not disagreeing with you, just interested in your source.

juslookin

Bad choice of Grammar, but you even you knew I meant those of indiginous Irish heritage, rather than immigrated Irish.

Hobbes

HelterSkelter wrote:

Where did you get this from? Not disagreeing with you, just interested in your source.

You can get the stats from the islamireland.ie however I would like to see the latest results from the CSO. They should be due out next month.

juslookin wrote:

Bad choice of Grammar, but you even you knew I meant those of indiginous Irish heritage, rather than immigrated Irish.

Again with the prejudice. If your an Irish citizen it shouldn't matter where your elders came from. What if the muslim was born here? (Muslims have been recorded in the country since the 1950s).

The way you word it is that they are not part of our society to begin with.

HelterSkelter

Hobbes wrote:

You can get the stats from the islamireland.ie however I would like to see the latest results from the CSO. They should be due out next month.



Again with the prejudice. If your an Irish citizen it shouldn't matter where your elders came from. What if the muslim was born here? (Muslims have been recorded in the country since the 1950s).

The way you word it is that they are not part of our society to begin with.

I thought the CSO only stated the number of Muslims living in ireland. Does it state their citizenship as well?

Hobbes

HelterSkelter wrote:

I thought the CSO only stated the number of Muslims living in ireland. Does it state their citizenship as well?

It should do if they filled out the forms correctly.

fly_agaric

Hobbes wrote:

The majority of Muslims in Ireland are Irish citizens.

I wonder if that is true any more? I very much doubt it, but as you said the census should tell us.

EDIT @OP - much of your post doesn't relate to Ireland or its pretty small population of muslims (thank God). What is your point?

juslookin

Hobbes wrote:

If your an Irish citizen it shouldn't matter where your elders came from.

The way you word it is that they are not part of our society to begin with.

I wonder if you are making the assumption that somebody that is classed as an Irish citizen considers themselves Irish ? They may not actually recognise your state.

Some people would actively agree they are not part of decadent Irish society in the first place and don't wish to be, or interact, even though they still wish to geographically remain.

InFront

juslookin wrote:

I wonder if you are making the assumption that somebody that is classed as an Irish citizen considers themselves Irish ? They may not actually recognise your state.

Some people would actively agree they are not part of decadent Irish society in the first place and don't wish to be, or interact, even though they still wish to geographically remain.

"Some people" this and that. Youre being as vague as the article you were originally complaining about. Have you ever met anyone that doesnt recognise the Irish state in your life? I cant imagine that makes up a lot of people anywhere! Furthermore have you met anyone who has "activley" agreed (however you can do that?) that they want to live here but not be part of society? I dont know anyone in that situation... it would be pretty hard to live here and not be part of society tbh.

What has any of it got to do with your topic?

The Sweeper

juslookin wrote:

The UK's a lost cause now, but Ireland is next in line for the great Caliphate, perhaps next time you read about "a "rise" of "Islamophobia" in Ireland", or see a "Community Leader" on TV demanding their political objectives based on this claim, ask questions, who is providing the figures, what evidence they are providing the figures on, and what they stand to gain from making the claims.

You know, I can't figure the tone of your argument. Is the UK a lost cause because they're anti Islam, or because they're letting Islamic leaders have a say in their media?

By the way, why's the Caliphate a bad thing?

Hobbes

Not sure why it was moved to Islam forum, better suited for Humanities.

Hobbes

juslookin wrote:

Some people would actively agree they are not part of decadent Irish society in the first place and don't wish to be, or interact, even though they still wish to geographically remain.

Are you one of "them" or speak for "them" ? Whoever "some people" are.

InFront

How many more times will it be moved or have you finished??

Hobbes

InFront wrote:

How many more times will it be moved or have you finished??

Don't tempt Amp.

Islam forum has strict rules, probably too restrictive to keep on talking like you are. Humanities will allow you to continue and get a better class of conversation beyond AH.

ChityWest

Hobbes wrote:

Humanities will allow you to continue and get a better class of conversation beyond AH.

I am feeling very prejudiced against by that remark.

Sesshoumaru

I myself feel that Muslims are crying wolf far too often and I object to the way they seem to want laws changed here in Europe to restrict freedom of speech. No critiscism of Islam is allowed it seems. Take the example of the writer in Italy who is being brought to court now because her book was critical of Islam.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0847827534/sr=8-1/qid=1150308765/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-5480578-1317607?%5Fencoding=UTF8
http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,1796161,00.html

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

A former war correspondent, Fallaci has frequently stirred debate with her views, which are largely based on the notion that Muslims are engaged in a plot to conquer Europe by immigration

hehehehe

ChityWest

She has been charged with violating a law that forbids defamatory statements about a religion acknowledged by the Italian state. The offence is punishable with a fine of up to €6,000 (£4,100).

The charge stems from a recent book, The Strength of Reason, one of a trilogy she has published since the September 11 attacks on the US. In the book, Fallaci, 77, is alleged to have made 18 blasphemous statements, including referring to Islam as "a pool that never purifies".

Adel Smith, head of the Italian Muslim Union, brought the lawsuit against her.

I think her immigration quote might not be indicative of what that trial is about The amazon link has some more info on her book than the guardian one;

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0847827534/sr=8-1/qid=1150308765/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-1192977-8308666?%5Fencoding=UTF8

juslookin

Despite a wealth of Polish immigration in Ireland, I don't see any specific concern about the issue of "Polophobia".

Despite a wealth of Nigerian immigration in Ireland, I don's see any specific concern about the issue of "Nigeraphobia".

I don't see specific initiatives for Kosovaphobia, or Albaniaphobia, or Angolaphobia, or Ghaniaphobia

Some people innocently relate their own religous beliefs to Islam as if it is simply a religious belief system.

Islam is not. It is arguably a harsh, intolerant political belief system, with an agenda to dominate and subdue. Often when followers of Islam find themselves in "new" socieities, they find that the majority belief system and its apparatus is not to their liking, and set about attempting to change that apparatus, specifically accomodate them.

"Concern" about "Islamophobia" has been productive for certain groups and organisations in pushing their agendas in a variety of regions.

Next time you hear about "Islamophobia", ask, who is making the claim, on what evidence are they making the claim, what do they stand to gain from making the claim ?

MPAC have been quite successful in pushing their agenda in the UK. See how they operate.

After the 7/7 bombs, MPAC used the situation to push superstitions and lies about "Islamophobia" and that "Headscarf Wearing Sisters were being attacked in the streets". It was almost as if the 52 who died had never happened.

If there is "Concern" about "Islamophobia" in Ireland, best you see how this can be a political tactic.

Victimhood can be productive.