Is the Leaving Cert (so far) FAIR this year?

TiM_rEAPeR

Hey guys, just wanted to get the general feelings on the rest of the country, so far Im really getting the feeling that they're ever so slightly trying to alter the course, as in testing the actual brains of what you know and not what you can learn off.

The institute seems to be fairly pissed of in a lot of the reports in the paper, but should they have the right to decide what should and shouldnt be on a leaving cert, just becasue its not in their notes.

So far im finding this year pretty balanced all round. English was a God-send and im pretty sure most of you would agree with me on paper 2, Bishop, Hardy, Longey, all modern poets. Perhaps a difficulty in the levels of Maths was used a compensator on that account, unfair or fair? Even ordinary Maths seemed to throw up some odd think outside the boxes that really tests our knowledge of what we know and thinking around it, cant they do this sort of thing?

Todays Biology was no by the book exam, thinking through experiments with precison and concentrating on specific aspects in ecology. Perhaps this years leaving cert is a slight milestone in what was once an institute ridden world, where answers were already learnt off and on paper before were even in the exam hall. Isnt this a good way to go? Besides anyone looking to repeat next year could be relieved by the ever so slight decrease in college points.. what with the mathematics department taking a hit.

smemon

didnt notice any difference tbh, no point in comparing years.... just get on with it. nobody can change the past, we can just learn from it.

im finished 5 exams after tomorrow so tbh i dont give a toss what happens to them in the future as it won't effect me. :cool: i'd imagine thats the general consensus.

Smemon.I love your posts.You remind me of myself before i succumbed to alcoholism in uni!:cool:

Peyton Manning

Only Maths p2 was remotely tricky.

DiscoMouse

You didn't have that Maths Tim, you don't know... *shudder*

Duff

Biology was the only ''unfair'' paper so far, mainly because i hadnt a clue what was goin on!!!!

NADA

Kinda glad the people at the institute are fairly pissed. They didn buy their grades this year.

GrumPy

NADA wrote:

Kinda glad the people at the institute are fairly pissed. They didn buy their grades this year.

Why does the tute' bother you so much? If people need help to do well, and there putting the effort in by trying their best, whats wrong with that? Not everyone can get 510 in mocks by studying at home :rolleyes:

DonaldDuck

TiM_rEAPeR wrote:

Hey guys, just wanted to get the general feelings on the rest of the country, so far Im really getting the feeling that they're ever so slightly trying to alter the course, as in testing the actual brains of what you know and not what you can learn off.

The institute seems to be fairly pissed of in a lot of the reports in the paper, but should they have the right to decide what should and shouldnt be on a leaving cert, just becasue its not in their notes.

So far im finding this year pretty balanced all round. English was a God-send and im pretty sure most of you would agree with me on paper 2, Bishop, Hardy, Longey, all modern poets. Perhaps a difficulty in the levels of Maths was used a compensator on that account, unfair or fair? Even ordinary Maths seemed to throw up some odd think outside the boxes that really tests our knowledge of what we know and thinking around it, cant they do this sort of thing?

Todays Biology was no by the book exam, thinking through experiments with precison and concentrating on specific aspects in ecology. Perhaps this years leaving cert is a slight milestone in what was once an institute ridden world, where answers were already learnt off and on paper before were even in the exam hall. Isnt this a good way to go? Besides anyone looking to repeat next year could be relieved by the ever so slight decrease in college points.. what with the mathematics department taking a hit.

They would not make one exam more difficult to compensate for another,that would be stupid and would mean the department were even more of a joke.
If you'd seen our trignomatry question,you would've looked at itin disbelief.I have never,ever seen anything about asymtopes in trignometry,in my book or exam papers.Nor have I seen anything like any of that part (a) actually...And its not just the institute that are annoyed with the paper,its just about every teacher in the country.As far as I know,some of the things asked were not even on the syllabus

GretchenWieners

So far they're all grand with the exception of Maths, I'm brutal at Maths and I found my pre harder (OL).
The only other thing I'd say is cutting down the Irish poetry course a bit (got up at 3am just to go through notes!!) and maybe adding 20mins onto Business.

ThrownAway

I think it's easier this year maybe because I had an extra year to study.

The English paper was great
Didn't like pass Irish
Geography and Biology were fine
Business was pretty easy

Nothing shocking YET

Sangre

They complain about honours Maths every year without fail.

PrettyInPunk

Irish GrumPy wrote:

Why does the tute' bother you so much? If people need help to do well, and there putting the effort in by trying their best, whats wrong with that? Not everyone can get 510 in mocks by studying at home :rolleyes:

your a ****ing knob..i moved to the institute and it was NOTHING to do with grades..i wanted to skip fourth year

so shut ur trap u dickhead.if youve the money to pay for good education then DO IT!!

helles belles

NADA wrote:

Kinda glad the people at the institute are fairly pissed. They didn buy their grades this year.

thats a bit bitchy. i go to the tute, we worked our asses off this year. the maths paper was a complete cow!
i did the exams last year and this years has been far worse.
ah well, onwards and upwards. have to study for ag. science, physics and chem. woo!

smemon

NADA wrote:

Kinda glad the people at the institute are fairly pissed. They didn buy their grades this year.

can't argue with that. bang on 100% right.

im sick of seeing their smiling faces in the papers every year with 550+ plus. hopefully the smiles will be wiped off their faces this year

nedward

smemon wrote:

im sick of seeing their smiling faces in the papers every year with 550+ plus. hopefully the smiles will be wiped off their faces this year

So,what? They shouldn't be happy if they get high points? I don't go to the Institute, but I worked really hard this year, and if I get my course, I will be a happy little fat bastard. Stop stirring the ****.

melekalikimaka

PrettyInPunk wrote:

your a ****ing knob..i moved to the institute and it was NOTHING to do with grades..i wanted to skip fourth year

so shut ur trap u dickhead.if youve the money to pay for good education then DO IT!!

the insistute doesnt give you a good education it gives you good NOTES, don't mix those two words up girly, people might fall under the illusion that the place is somewhere to broaden your mind :cool:

helles belles

melekalikimaka wrote:

the insistute doesnt give you a good education it gives you good NOTES, don't mix those two words up girly, people might fall under the illusion that the place is somewhere to broaden your mind :cool:

i beg to differ. i went to a normal school last year and have been to the institute too. the institute was far superior. the teachers are fantastic.
unless u have been to the institute you cant judge. and your just being ignorant

PrettyInPunk

They give good notes AND a good education..as you said the teachers are exellent and really helpful..
Many people will fail the leaving cert from the institute its just not broadcasted in the paper.As said before despite the good notes and teachers we still do work..if you dont you fail.simple as,what school your in doesnt really matter if your not gonna work.

helles belles

i concur

smemon

nedward wrote:

So,what? They shouldn't be happy if they get high points? I don't go to the Institute, but I worked really hard this year, and if I get my course, I will be a happy little fat bastard. Stop stirring the ****.

it's insulting to those that got the same points down the country in cavan or somewhere and get no recognition whatsoever despite going to a non-fee paying school and getting no grinds.

i worked hard too - i won't be jumping up and down screaming when i open my envelope :rolleyes: if someone wants a picture of me to put in a paper, i'll tell them where to go. there are people who've worked a hell of a lot harder than me and they may only end up with 200 points.

they're the guys who deserve recognition.

NADA

So true. I know a fella who worked his ass off last year but still fell about 50 points short of what he wanted. So he is repeating this year.

JackKelly

PrettyInPunk wrote:

your a ****ing knob..i moved to the institute and it was NOTHING to do with grades..i wanted to skip fourth year

so shut ur trap u dickhead.if youve the money to pay for good education then DO IT!!

Fantastic. Banned in the middle of exams.

Anyway, this rubbish about people buying their grades by going to the institute has to stop, its absolute crap. I went to the institute for 5th and 6th year, and yes, it helped me no ends in getting good marks in the LC, but i in no way bought my grades. I worked bloody hard for the entire 6th year and know of a lot of students who attended the same classes as i did, got the same notes as i did and yet didn't do well in the exams at all.
I think a lot of people are bitter seeing such a large amount of people do well in exams.

GrumPy

PrettyInPunk wrote:

your a ****ing knob..i moved to the institute and it was NOTHING to do with grades..i wanted to skip fourth year

so shut ur trap u dickhead.if youve the money to pay for good education then DO IT!!

Wait, what? that comment was for NADA, I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with people going to the tute', I wish I had went, and fair play to them, cause they can put just as much hard work into there exams as anyone else. You read my post entirely wrong, and I hope you feel stupid for getting banned by over-reacting to something you didnt understand. Now let me make my point again, I was aiming my post at nada, cause he believes the tut'e is silly money, however I dont, If someone wants o get grinds etc to do well, thats fine, I get grinds and am happy cause It helped me do better, and cope more with the stress. And I agree with TimaY here, in that people (like NADA sugested) that believe "buying grades" is an easy way out, it certainly isnt, people get grinds, and work hard cause they wanna do well - it's that simple. Not everyone can work off there own back, but it doesn't make them anymore, or any less intelligent than someone else.

nedward

Agree with TimAy. I will probably be competing with grind school veterans for my course, but there's no truth in the statement that they didin't deserve their grades. They got the best teaching money could buy, worked hard and took advantage of it.

smemon

TimAy wrote:

I went to the institute for 5th and 6th year, and yes, it helped me no ends in getting good marks in the LC, but i in no way bought my grades. I worked bloody hard for the entire 6th year and know of a lot of students who attended the same classes as i did, got the same notes as i did and yet didn't do well in the exams at all.

but surely by paying to get that help when you could have had it for free doesnt make sense?

i can't understand it how people from fee-paying schools say that they are hard workers and don't buy their success yet praise the college and say they couldnt have gotten a better education anywhere else, surely a contradiction.

you walk into an exam with your brain and a pen - in that respect the whole country is equal, no problem.

however in a fee paying school, from what i gather, you get more attention (smaller classes), less distractions and teachers with a wealth of experience who have churned out hundreds of A1's. so lets say Johnny 1 goes to the institute.

Johnny 2 however, goes to a public school down in cavan. his classes are huge in number and he's in with a bunch of farmers who have no intention of working. The teachers aren't used to A1 students and so can't give the same notes as one in the institute could. Johnny 2 is just a good a worker as Johnny 1 but doesnt have the surroundings/ people around him to boost his marks.

now imo, even though the two johnny's (:D ) have the same intelligence and work-rate, johnny 1 stands a better chance at getting higher results. he's paid to get into that school so ultimately yes, he has bought his way into success, or certainly bought MORE success.

long, boring debate i know i should have better things to be at but i feel i have to defend people in public schools as imo they are at a disadvantage in comparason to fee paying schools. it's not sour grapes, even if i was a 600 pointer i'd still be taking up this case.

JohnPH

I think what pisses people off about places like the tute is that the whole points system is praised for treating everyone equally and gives everyone an equal chance. However without a doubt it does give you an advantage if you go to a fee paying school, which is unfair on those who don't.

But i really don't have anything against it. If your offered it why not take it .

smemon

JohnPH wrote:

If your offered it why not take it .

because it's burning money unless i won the lottery i wouldnt go to a fee paying school. i like mixing it with all classes of society - it doesnt give me a bubble to live in.

john22

The leaving cert in general is not a fair exam.
Why dont we get a system that doesnt put so much stress on people and doesnt cram 3 years of work into 2 weeks of exams.
Continuous assessment all the way. Thats a much better system.

At least they could give us a chance to repeat exams during summer if we failed as opposed to a year later.

d4gurl

pretyinpunk and helles belles!did not realise you were in the tute as well!:D I agre with yey!we did not buy are grades! I worked really hard this year! and by the way my biology teacher predicted that paper, my english teacher predicted that paper and oh for maths that graph yok for higher we were told to watch out for that!stop abusing the tute!dnt hate! Timmay dnt ban prettyin punk - ahh let her back in cum on fellow tute head

Back to topic

Fair LC?no!! History was a joke today - such a bad paper - not well orgainised
Irish (H) was not to bad - a bit too nice (that said I wish I had studied more!)
Math (H) enuf to say it was a big poo
English (H) nice &predictable - fair
Bilogy (H) fair enough - really tested your ful knowledge of the course
German - watch this space
Chemistry - as above

my two cents on this smelly exam!

Psychedelik

im sick of seeing their smiling faces in the papers every year with 550+ plus. hopefully the smiles will be wiped off their faces this year

Dead right! Especially in Exambrief, happy perfect students smiling on results day with a caption saying "happiness is..." :rolleyes: That magazine is just one big ad for the 'tute don't you think?

Faerie

The bitterness coming out of this thread is unreal!!
Just because people go to the institute doesn't mean they don't deserve their points. They sit the same exams we do!
I wish I had gone to the institute! My school is a ****hole!

d4gurl

Haters will always hate! Thanks Faerie! I hate those smiling twats too thought especially your one from last year "im not ur typical LCer! I mean i wear ralph OMG!" = TOOL! were not all like that you know? Sky news was up in our school couple of weeks ago and the prinicple was practically beggin students to go on!

Brods

-whats wrong with living in a bubble?!!
-talk about generalising tho... cork, a place outside dublin and so in the country, gets the best results! look at last year, there were three 9 A1ers...
-the education we get for the LC has nothing to do with intelligence or valuing hard work... There are soo many ppl trying to do medicine, for example, that even working hard, and sacrificing your whole year doesnt guarantee u a place. Not all 590 applicants are accepted in trinity, thats a joke...

so then, whats wrong with going to the institute or any other grind school for their notes if it mite give u a slight advantage? If u dont do it, someone else will....

DonaldDuck

Faerie wrote:

The bitterness coming out of this thread is unreal!!
Just because people go to the institute doesn't mean they don't deserve their points. They sit the same exams we do!
I wish I had gone to the institute! My school is a ****hole!

I wouldve loved to go to the institute aswell but decided I'd be happier in my current school

abercrombie

DonaldDuck wrote:

I wouldve loved to go to the institute aswell but decided I'd be happier in my current school

i was given the opportunity to go to the institute this year too but wanted to carry out my final year in the same school i've been in since junior infants..everybody say awww

GrumPy

abercrombie wrote:

same school i've been in since junior infants..everybody say awww

Man, those kids must be super mutant children!! Leaving cert? :eek:

abercrombie

Irish GrumPy wrote:

Man, those kids must be super mutant children!! Leaving cert? :eek:

"I don't know how to put this, but...we're kind of a big deal"...:cool: :cool:

cianclarke

helles belles wrote:

i beg to differ. i went to a normal school last year and have been to the institute too. the institute was far superior. the teachers are fantastic.
unless u have been to the institute you cant judge. and your just being ignorant

So, how much did this "'tute" education cost you again?
Set yourself up for that one dearie... :rolleyes:

d4gurl

she didnt go to the tute

Rockerette

smemon, you cant generalise all private schools like that.
i go to one, but its a whole different world to teh Institute.




in those exam briefs theres this little box thingy (well in one of them i saw it at elast) - "what the papers have to say about the institute of education!"

Oh come on.




Also they have an adverty saying how they cater for "All abilities" - OMG! thats like, SO GOOD OF THEM!
that fact they feel the need to say that speaks volumes.



anyway, i have no problem with paying fees for schools, but i hate the idea of grind schools - not just the institute, any of them.

WAY too much emphasis on just.. exams.
causes people stress.

When was the last time ye had a battle of the bands?!
student V teachers hockey match??
do you guys have a final assembly??




oh but maybe these things arent important..




I cant judge people who go to the Institute, thats unfair. but i think they (the instutute) have completely the wrong approach to it all.




Also, i was talking to someone once who used to teach there.. and he absolutley hated it... didnt have much nice to say about it at all... hhmmm.

cianclarke

d4gurl wrote:

she didnt go to the tute

"i went to a normal school last year and have been to the institute too."
Sounds like she did to me, unless I'm missing something...?

helles belles

i go to the tute at the mo. it cost my parents five and a half grand.
but my old school cost three and a half and i took grinds too!

smemon

Rockerette wrote:

smemon, you cant generalise all private schools like that.
i go to one, but its a whole different world to teh Institute.


Also, i was talking to someone once who used to teach there.. and he absolutley hated it... didnt have much nice to say about it at all... hhmmm.

there are exceptions to every rule of course

but i don't like schools which showcase their achievements and plaster themselves in the media so as to keep intact their semingly flawless reputation.

i too know a teacher who worked in the 'tute. didnt necessarily hate it, but shared my view on it. he also said he much prefers my public school to it as it's more fun to teach, i suppose more challenging.... meet all sorts of characters at all sorts of different levels.

again i don't mean to generalise but he said in general students outside of the tute were more grounded and level headed - more 'weathered' one might say, streetwise.

i have to say in terms of mixing with society, it's much better to spend 6 years in public than in private.

chairs

definitely. people who go to private schools are often sent there by their parents not for a better education, but to keep them with a certain class in society.

Kovik

Back on topic:

No, it hasn't been fair. They seem to have tried to discourage 'tute types by asking more lateral questions this year. In doing so, they've deviated from course content and syllabus layout in a lot of areas, which is idiotic. When people are perceived to be abusing the system, the first question asked regarding the problem should be directed at the system itself. The institute exists entirely due to the manner in which the leaving cert is arranged and examined. These meagre attempts to discourage rote learning solves nothing of the system's problems and have caused students to suffer as a result. Government departments seldom admit fault so it's going to be a long time before we see lasting reform implimented here. However, it's time the ASTI and the department accepted that the enormous faults and weaknesses that exist within our system, faults that both groups enjoy passively complaining about, lie entirely with them. The institute is nothing but a resultant of their failures.

Anyway, the shocking history paper has ****ed me completely. I won't get my points in spite of my preparation and ability with the subject. I'm not getting my points, fiddle dee dee. I'll just sit in my chair for the next fifty years eating bread and cheese and olives.

Attractive Nun

Far too much anger in this thread.

I did French grinds in 5th year which were fairly good, and two or three Irish grinds this year which weren't. But generally I work best if I'm at home on my own. I hate, for example, doing any work in school for some reason. It's just one of those things - people are different.

If someone feels the need to spend €5,000 or whatever it is to go to the Institute, then fair play to them. If they genuinely work better in that environment then the cost is likely well worth it. The Leaving Cert is really just an examination of how much work you put into it. Of course, there are varying levels of intelligence and such but no Institute money will solve that. People with money have an advantage over others because they can choose the best way for themselves to work, but at the end of the day you just have to get on with it; the difference between travelling into town every morning and studying with the best notes and the best teachers isn't really that different from getting up in the morning and bothering your arse writing out your own notes.

I've had hay fever for the past few weeks and it's well a pain in the ass trying to study, but I get on with it. Going to a grinds school is a good way of forcing yourself to do the work probably, but the work still has to be done. If anyone genuinely cares that much about the issue to be labelling everyone at the Institute as having bought their Leaving Cert, then surely they care enough to sit down and bother their arse working.

Or else we should all just bluff the Leaving like smemon.

Rockerette

Kovik wrote:

They seem to have tried to discourage 'tute types by asking more lateral questions this year.

what????

oh god, heaven forbid they should ask "lateral" questions that might actual require people to use their own heads, and not just re-quote notes.
















and if you were so good and so prepared for history as you say you were, you woulda been fine..





back on point: all my exams have been fair, and im happy with them all apart from english, but thats just my own fault

GretchenWieners

this is about the LC being fair NOT ABOUT THE INSTITUTE's performance in the LC!

d4gurl

Get back to the topic kids
Leave the tute alone....my last words on it.....
I loved it...I made so many new friends and just had such a good laugh..got along with all the teachers even if the class was of 100ppl i made sure they would remember me! Rockerette...no the tute does not have battel of bands etc...blah...we had a graduation night...vice principal and a good few teachers came out with us...we got sent good luck cards....All that school spirit stuff i did in 5th year...irish and english debating team, wining four awards, playing against the teachers in gaeilc....I dnt tnk i missed out on anything this year tbh. I learned so much more..... I felt the teachers prepared us the best they could. Why did I go to the tute? well i had a crap irish history english biology and chemistry and oh german too....none of these teachers could teach..this was a private school! I'm glad I went to the institute - if not I would of gotten grinds anyway so it really doesnt make a difference!!!
back to topic sorry I really need to just justify it and my case ....im sick of people having goes at the Institute.....

Rockerette

d4gurl wrote:

Get back to the topic kids
Leave the tute alone....my last words on it.....
I loved it...I made so many new friends and just had such a good laugh..got along with all the teachers even if the class was of 100ppl i made sure they would remember me! Rockerette...no the tute does not have battel of bands etc...blah...we had a graduation night...vice principal and a good few teachers came out with us...we got sent good luck cards....All that school spirit stuff i did in 5th year...irish and english debating team, wining four awards, playing against the teachers in gaeilc....I dnt tnk i missed out on anything this year tbh. I learned so much more..... I felt the teachers prepared us the best they could. Why did I go to the tute? well i had a crap irish history english biology and chemistry and oh german too....none of these teachers could teach..this was a private school! I'm glad I went to the institute - if not I would of gotten grinds anyway so it really doesnt make a difference!!!
back to topic sorry I really need to just justify it and my case ....im sick of people having goes at the Institute.....

hehe hypocrite

"back on topic:"
and you just go on another "Institute is great" rant..

hehe..