Haughey and UCD

InFront

Given that he learned his trade, so to speak, in this institution should we have some sort of monument to the Boss? A Stalin-esque statue? A giant portrait of him giving the 2 fingers hanging lavishly from O Reilly Hall? The Quinn school?

Il Presidente must be so proud...

Dave!

Hah!

This reminds me, my secondary school principal had a big framed picture of Stalin hanging in his office..... What a wierdo

panda100

I dont know much about Haughey tbh..
What course did he do in UCD?
Was he involved in the union as most future politicans blossom there?
Was he involved in any sports/societies?

Chakar

Charles James Haughey graduated from UCD with a first class honours degree in Commerce.He was the Commmerce and Economics Society Auditor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Haughey

http://www.ucdsu.net/newswire.php?story_id=1142

neutral

I suppose a statue or bust in the Commerce Block is best then

rain on

i was just sitting by the lake there and some guy from RTE was going round interviewing people about haughey.. i told him i had nothing to say that was suitable for national television

Chakar

I'm definitely looking forward to the six one news on rte 1 it should be interesting.

Mr.Nice Guy

I don't support statues or busts for national disgraces.

scop

No we should not, that is all.

Chakar

There's already a statue of him anyway I'm not sure where.

TheVan

A former C&E auditor skimming money to further his own lavish lifestyle at the expense of the ordinary population.....my my how times have changed

Riamfada

rain on wrote:

i i told him i had nothing to say that was suitable for national television

Go On Ya Good Thing. A state funeral is more than enough to shut the Haughy lovers up but no way should more money sink into a black hole after his death in the form of any sort of statue. UCD probably will but id love to see the protests

The Van wrote:

A former C&E auditor skimming money to further his own lavish lifestyle at the expense of the ordinary population

Thats enough reason to pretend he never went to the college in the first place.


Haughy? Never heard of him

Riamfada

Chakar wrote:

There's already a statue of him anyway I'm not sure where.

Yeah , The house of horrors

Blush_01

Well it'd beat putting a new book or two in the library. It's not like we need those!

I think the state funeral is more than enough for him. I love the fact that it was pointed out repeatedly that it was offered and subsequently accepted, rather than a given.

Maybe his face tembossed on a liver would be a fitting tribute. At least someone would get one then.

panda100

I think a book of condolences in the admin building would be more then enough.UCD has lots of good people go through its doors who have done lots to further Ireland both economically and socially.I dont think its fair to commerate just one. As Blush said there is far more important things for the university to spend their money on.
I wonder if Haughy would shudder at what the c+e society has turned into today..a society based on organising nights out sold by sexist posters of women with their tits hanging out......

InFront

panda100 wrote:

I wonder if Haughy would shudder at what the c+e society has turned into today..a society based on organising nights out sold by sexist posters of women with their tits hanging out......

He'd probably be behind it. Come to think of it, for all the important figures that UCD has been associated with, Joyce, Haughey, Hopkins, etc. we have no real commemorations to these people, do we? I mean compared to Trinity who have statues and bronze heads all over the place.

Yes, a 25 ft statue of McDowell is exactly what we need!

moynihan

Has anyone seen his name on the C&E register of Auditors plaque in the Arts block? Well no one else has either cos someone scratched his name off with a compass years ago

Chakar

moynihan wrote:

Has anyone seen his name on the C&E register of Auditors plaque in the Arts block? Well no one else has either cos someone scratched his name off with a compass years ago

Disgraceful.

Samos

moynihan wrote:

Has anyone seen his name on the C&E register of Auditors plaque in the Arts block? Well no one else has either cos someone scratched his name off with a compass years ago

Inevitable.

It's no wonder so many people are cynical about politics when figures like CJH and co abuse their positions of power for personal benefit and with seemingly no remorse.

singingstranger

His name is still perfectly legible. Either that or I'm mixing it up with the KBC one, where his name as a previous Auditor is a little scratched but still proudly prominent.

"No more of that..."

Riamfada

Fair play to Rúairí Quinn for saying to the Senate "had he been a member of the public he would have been jailed for perjury" . Its sicking that we celebrate white collar crime but condemn our less "high profile" criminals. Keep the worship of criminals out of UCD in my opinion



edit: its driving me crazy that government press secretary dismisses his criminality by saying "everyone has their flaws" . Now I'm not comparing C.J Haughy to anyone else but If I went out and robbed a bank could I use the "nobody's perfect" defense. Perhaps the money he stole could have gone to social welfare for abused children. If there is any move to honor this man in UCD ill fight it all the way. Ive never been so hardened about anything and Id expect a large turnout of students and the SU if anything is forced through over the summer months.

AngelofFire

Some of his families assets should be liquidated to pay back the money he owes the tax payer. If my relgion didn't require me to have respect for the dead, id say haul his coffen up and put it in a cell in mountjoy prison for 2 years.

Dave!

What religion is that?

Riamfada

Jedi

Blush_01

You crack me up. But not as much as the nonsense honouring one of Irelands most celebrated and un-punished criminals.

Chakar, you have to be kidding.

AngelofFire

What religion is that?

Im an a la carte follower of the Church of Ireland. (anglican communion)

Chakar

singingstranger wrote:

His name is still perfectly legible. Either that or I'm mixing it up with the KBC one, where his name as a previous Auditor is a little scratched but still proudly prominent.

"No more of that..."

Hooray!!

Blush_01

Are you for real?

Riamfada

there will be no mention in UCD of Charles Haughy. I have my sources

Blush_01

*does happy dance*

YAY!

moynihan

Even though I agree with pretty much all the criticism ever made about Haughey, I dont agree with those people who say he shouldn't have been given a state funeral. If ever there was a death that should be celebrtaed publicly it was that one. Personally I was hoping for a street carnival with little children singing "ding dong the pr*ck is dead".

Chakar

AngelofFire wrote:

Some of his families assets should be liquidated to pay back the money he owes the tax payer. If my relgion didn't require me to have respect for the dead, id say haul his coffen up and put it in a cell in mountjoy prison for 2 years.

Chris *tut* *tut*

Chinafoot

I hate this never speak ill of the dead crap. (No offence to anyone, just an opinion)

Just because someone is dead doesn't change anything they did when they were alive. Should we al be nice about Hitler too just because he's dead?!

Not only did he get a statesman's funeral (what a fúcking joke) but they have it on Bloomsday.... :rolleyes:


This country never ceases to amaze me.

Mr.Nice Guy

peachypants wrote:

I hate this never speak ill of the dead crap. (No offence to anyone, just an opinion)

Just because someone is dead doesn't change anything they did when they were alive. Should we al be nice about Hitler too just because he's dead?!

Not only did he get a statesman's funeral (what a fúcking joke) but they have it on Bloomsday.... :rolleyes:


This country never ceases to amaze me.

Agree 100%. This seems to be a uniquely Irish thing. Makes me even more grateful that Mussolini wasn't from Ireland.

"Hey did ya hear that f*cker Mussolini is dead? Apparently his rotten corpse was kicked around the streets a few hours ago. I'm glad the c*nt is dead."

"Ah now to be fair to him he did make the trains run on time. There'll be other times to talk about the guy."

(Sigh)

panda100

peachypants wrote:

I hate this never speak ill of the dead crap. (No offence to anyone, just an opinion)

Just because someone is dead doesn't change anything they did when they were alive. Should we al be nice about Hitler too just because he's dead?!

Not only did he get a statesman's funeral (what a fúcking joke) but they have it on Bloomsday.... :rolleyes:


This country never ceases to amaze me.

I do see what your saying but primarily he is a husband,father, grandfather,brother and son and whatever we may think about him, those people loved him.So it is just respectful to those who he left behind to honour their mourning period. So while I agree that people who did bad things in life should be named and shamed I think its just nice for his loved ones for him not to be still warm in the grave before the public slagging of his life begins.

Sangre

Somehow I think their vast wealth will comfort them in this troubling time.

panda100

Sangre wrote:

Somehow I think their vast wealth will comfort them in this troubling time.

It was him who did all the bad stuff not his wife or his sons and daughters.You cant choose your family and despite all his shortcomings they loved him so we should indeed have a bit of respect for their grief at the moment. History wont be kind to Charles Haughy like its not kind to any criminals so the family should just be given this space for a man who was human to them and not just a politicain

rainbow kirby

For the things he did, he didn't deserve a state funeral or to really be honoured by anyone other than his family.

Mr.Nice Guy

panda100 wrote:

I do see what your saying but primarily he is a husband,father, grandfather,brother and son and whatever we may think about him, those people loved him.So it is just respectful to those who he left behind to honour their mourning period. So while I agree that people who did bad things in life should be named and shamed I think its just nice for his loved ones for him not to be still warm in the grave before the public slagging of his life begins.

But you forget his loved ones asked for a State funeral which made the whole thing into a public matter.

If we are to be inundated with images and comments from the State funeral then we are entitled to comment on it just as much as the RTE commentators, Ahern, McAleese etc.

I think it's clear to a lot of people that there is a revisionist agenda at the heart of all this.

Chinafoot

panda100 wrote:

the family should just be given this space for a man who was human to them and not just a politicain

Then the family shouldn't have had a televised, state funeral.

humbert

peachypants wrote:

Then the family shouldn't have had a televised, state funeral.

good point, it's spitting in the face of anyone who would like to see some accountability in Irish politics.

panda100

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

But you forget his loved ones asked for a State funeral which made the whole thing into a public matter.

If we are to be inundated with images and comments from the State funeral then we are entitled to comment on it just as much as the RTE commentators, Ahern, McAleese etc.

I think it's clear to a lot of people that there is a revisionist agenda at the heart of all this.

I didnt realise all that.All I was tring to explain was that at the end of the day there dad/husband/brother has just died from cancer and everyone no matter what they have done in life deserves for their loved ones who are left behind to have a grieving period,even just for a week or two, before people start telling them how evil/coniving/criminal he was. Dont you think that fair?

panda100

peachypants wrote:

Then the family shouldn't have had a televised, state funeral.

I cant speak for the family and why they would have wanted this.All I was saying that I think that there should be a bit of decorum and deceny towards someone who is not even a week dead,while wounds are fresh for many who he was close too.

Chinafoot

panda100 wrote:

I didnt realise all that.All I was tring to explain was that at the end of the day there dad/husband/brother has just died from cancer and everyone no matter what they have done in life deserves for their loved ones who are left behind to have a grieving period,even just for a week or two, before people start telling them how evil/coniving/criminal he was. Dont you think that fair?

But again panda, they shouldn't have had a televised funeral if they expected that.

There are a hell of a lot of people in this country with an opinion on that man and people are free to comment all they like. Why shouldn't we be?

Like MNG said, the population of this country have been swamped with images and commentary of his funeral over the past 2 days. He was not held accountable for his crimes and now he's dead we should all hush up because "ah sure, he wasn't that bad and sure the poor fella's dead now." :rolleyes:

Like I said before, just because he's dead doesn't change what he did during his life. Nor does should it change people's opinion and their right to voice that opinion.

Panda100 wrote:

I cant speak for the family and why they would have wanted this.All I was saying that I think that there should be a bit of decorum and deceny towards someone who is not even a week dead,while wounds are fresh for many who he was close too.

Sorry but I think you're being slightly dramatic there. We're hardly standing on the front lawn of the Haughey family while saying all this. We are voicing our opinion on an internet forum. His family are not being abused.

I will give respect to the dead if they deserved it during their life. Just because Haughey is dead doesn't make him automatically entitled to it.

Mr.Nice Guy

panda100 wrote:

I didnt realise all that.All I was tring to explain was that at the end of the day there dad/husband/brother has just died from cancer and everyone no matter what they have done in life deserves for their loved ones who are left behind to have a grieving period,even just for a week or two, before people start telling them how evil/coniving/criminal he was. Dont you think that fair?

I've not heard the family complain about anything that has been said. As has been explained to you, it was the family who chose to have a State funeral and to have their grief be made part of a public event so I wouldn't pay much attention to any complaints should the family make any.

This isn't about the family remember - it's about Haughey. A public figure who was given a public funeral at the public's expense.

Why should I or anyone else for that matter observe some undetermined period of respect for a guy who didn't respect the people who he was meant to represent?

Blush_01

Don't forget that we not only paid for the funeral, but we also paid all the state officials to go to it. Even in death Haughey was humping us. I'd love to know what kind of a reception we paid for. I'll bet it wasn't MSG laden packet vegetable soup and dried out tinned salmon sandwiches.

The fact that his family may have loved him, or may have publicly supported him doesn't change what he did to the nation, nor does it change how he treated his wife. Good little politician's wife and daughter, there was no way she'd split with him, regardless of where his wick was dipped. Anyone in Dublin in the 70s (which, granted, wasn't any of us) will remember his yellow Jag and the string of prostitutes he "never met". I do feel sorry for his family on one level, but they chose the publicity, and were no strangers to who he really was. If they knew it was coming (and they had to have known) then why should we all pretend he was the saint he wasn't?

panda100

I totally see what you two are saying. I was just trying to reply to when peachy said she doesnt understand the respect for the dead thing. I agree with you that we should never forget the evil deeds someone has done in life just because their dead.However,I think the media has acted justly (for once) this week.They havent said anything too hurtful or vindictive about a man who has just died. What mng and peachy seem to be applying is that the media and news should have been just filled with only all the atrocities that this man carried out?Im not saying that we,on this internet forum cant say anything we want about him,I was talking about how it was handled in the mainstream press. Would it have been fair after just a couple of days of his death just to critisce,critisce,critisce like we did in this thread?As I said History will remember Charles Haughy for what he was and it was only right for rte and the mainstrem media to give his many friends and family a bit of comfort in the reporting of his life before the critiscisms begin...

Jonny Arson

peachypants wrote:

Just because someone is dead doesn't change anything they did when they were alive. Should we al be nice about Hitler too just because he's dead?!

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Agree 100%. This seems to be a uniquely Irish thing. Makes me even more grateful that Mussolini wasn't from Ireland.

"Hey did ya hear that f*cker Mussolini is dead? Apparently his rotten corpse was kicked around the streets a few hours ago. I'm glad the c*nt is dead."

"Ah now to be fair to him he did make the trains run on time. There'll be other times to talk about the guy."

(Sigh)

You can attempt to argue your point of view all you like but by using those names in order to convey your argument does neither of you any favours one single bit.

I was no Haughey fan but the manner in which I've heard many people speak about him since his death has been absolutely vile, I've heard some really disgusting comments. I feel sorry for him over his painful death, I feel sorry for his family for losing someone close but I'll never feel sorry for the way in which he corrupted the people of our nation. However the man did do alot of good for our nation and sadly he destroyed whatever good he did by being corrupt. What gets on my nerves the man has been getting worse vocal treatment from people since his death than most murderers do, that's inexcusable and IMO is an immense contradiction and says alot about the ''great Irish people''.

panda100

Blush_01 wrote:

Don't forget that we not only paid for the funeral, but we also paid all the state officials to go to it. Even in death Haughey was humping us. I'd love to know what kind of a reception we paid for. I'll bet it wasn't MSG laden packet vegetable soup and dried out tinned salmon sandwiches.

?

C'est la vie!We pay for a lot of crap we dont need.Its not just the goverment that fleece us.....

humbert

panda100 wrote:

C'est la vie!We pay for a lot of crap we dont need.Its not just the goverment that fleece us.....

I feel so much better about it now!

panda100

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

You can attempt to argue your point of view all you like but by using those names in order to convey your argument does neither of you any favours one single bit.

I was no Haughey fan but the manner in which I've heard many people speak about him since his death has been absolutely vile, I've heard some really disgusting comments. I feel sorry for him over his painful death, I feel sorry for his family for losing someone close but I'll never feel sorry for the way in which he corrupted the people of our nation. However the man did do alot of good for our nation and sadly he destroyed whatever good he did by being corrupt. What gets on my nerves the man has been getting worse vocal treatment from people since his death than most murderers do, that's inexcusable and IMO is an immense contradiction and says alot about the ''great Irish people''.

I couldnt agree more and im no haughey fan.Its disgusting comparing him to Hitler and Mussollini. People who murdeded and slaughtered millions of innocent people,Not even Haughy deserves those sort of comparisons.