C.J. Haughey dead

Rovi

Just heard a news flash on RTE Radio 1.
Nothing on the site yet.

Nevyn

Crap well that's that and he never got back to the tribunals, I reckon a lot of people are sighing a sigh of relief and hoping that there aren't any papers out there that are due to be release after his death.

Which way will this go will there be relvlations and revoulations now that he is gone or will he be celebrated to the extent that Finna Fail will try use it to push through the next election.

Yes he was a great statesman but so was Stalin.

layke

So ends the saga of Irelands biggest gangster.

He gave all the women toothbrushes.

I will remember his contributions to good ol' Eire.

ISAW

layke wrote:

So ends the saga of Irelands biggest gangster.

He gave all the women toothbrushes.

I will remember his contributions to good ol' Eire.

and I will hopefully remember those who would not libel him when he was alive but will bad mouth him now that he is dead and they cant be brought to court.

constitutionus

ISAW wrote:

and I will hopefully remember those who would not libel him when he was alive but will bad mouth him now that he is dead and they cant be brought to court.

yeah, terrible when rich guys get treated like joe public isnt it

ISAW

constitutionus wrote:

yeah, terrible when rich guys get treated like joe public isnt it

There are no pockets in a shroud.

dbnavan

“I learned of the death of Charles Haughey with much personal regret. There will be other days to reflect on Mr Haughey, the politician. But today, the day of his death, I want to pay my respects to Charles Haughey the man: father, husband, grandfather, parliamentary colleague"

Maybe all boards members should do the same.


RIP

constitutionus

bollocks, im not a politician so why should i abide by his hypocritical standards! the man was a crook, and kennys not exactly mister squeaky clean either in his dealings. ALL we're gonna here all day is how the sun shone out his arse. well **** that, this is the internet and we can say what we feel, not what some party whips allows us to say

Dragan

dbnavan wrote:

Maybe all boards members should do the same.


RIP

Why? So we can try and outweigh the crimes with the good her may have done.

Life is not a balancing act where you can be corrupt in work but nice at home. The bad effects the good.

As i have said previously, i'm sure his family miss and love him.

No need to expect the rest of us too.

constitutionus

ISAW wrote:

There are no pockets in a shroud.

and the truth will out

Culchie

I think we should have some 'Mara you gob****e' specials on the radio to mark the occassion.

is_that_so

Jsut as well none of us "wise " people are sitting in the tribunals. Oh and RIP.

EDIT:

To arrive at a just estimate of a renowned man's character one must judge it by the standards of his time, not ours. (Mark Twain)

JohnnySideburns

dbnavan wrote:

Maybe all boards members should do the same.


RIP

Did you know: Charlie Haughey went to Erskine Childers funeral in the early
70's "to make sure the f*cker is planted!!!!". So maybe we shouldn't. I'll be going to his funeral with the same philosophy.

Nevyn

maybe maybe not there is the tradition of not speaking ill of the dead and
how many will be effected by such truths ?

besty

A tarnished past but RIP all the same.

meditraitor

Former Taoiseach Charles Haughey dies

13 June 2006 11:57
Former Taoiseach Charles Haughey has died after a long battle with cancer.

Mr Haughey, 80, was diagnosed with prostate cancer in 1995.

He died at his home in Kinsealy, Co Dublin just before 10am today. The news of Mr Haughey's death was confirmed by the Government Information service.

He is survived by his wife Maureen, and children Eimear, Ciarán, Conor and Seán.

Mr Haughey served as Taoiseach on three occasions between 1979 and 1992.

He was first elected to the Dáil in 1957 and he held a number of Government Ministries, including Finance, Agriculture, Health, and Social Welfare.

A spokesperson for the Taoiseach has said that the Government has offered a state funeral and that the offer has been accepted by the family.

Members of the public will be able to file past the coffin of Mr Haughey when it is removed to the mortuary chapel at Donnycarney church on Thursday morning.

His remains will be removed to the main church at 6pm on Thursday

RIP

Dirk Gently

dbnavan wrote:

Maybe all boards members should do the same.


RIP

Why? The most respectful thing I can do is not slag him off today.
Why do people who die suddenly get absolved of all the wrong they done?

Well done for getting Endas name mentioned again dbnavan.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

poor family. never nice when someone in your family dies, obviously. would say the funeral will be well-attended.

constitutionus

yes , the coward of mayo needs all the help he can get:D

Maxwell

It always sad when someone dies, and my respects to his family. But the wealth they are presently benefiting from is a result of their father's/husband dodgy dealing over 30 years of polictics

The man was a crook who avoided being brought to justice. Its a national disgrace that he will never be tried and convicted for his crimes.

mike65

Goodbye and good riddance frankly.

Mike.

Boggles

Wasn't it discussed at one of the tribunals that money intended for Brian Lenihans liver transplant ended up being lodged in CJ's account and was spent on designer shirts in Paris!

The man was a legend!!

dathi1

As Harney said he was responsible for founding the economic boom of today.
Even Thatcher reluctantly admired him. Temple Bar, Free transport for the elderly, etc etc…

ateam

Did his death break into normal programming on RTE1 or was there just a news flash?

dbnavan

Before any more attacks on me the original, thread smply said today is not the day. There is no point in preaching to the choir, as a FG supporter, he is one of the reasons I cant stand FF.

Rovi

ateam wrote:

Did his death break into normal programming on RTE1 or was there just a news flash?

Ongoing coverage since 11.00.
The newsflash was in the Tubridy Show around 10.50.

constitutionus

dathi1 wrote:

As Harney said he was responsible for founding the economic boom of today.
Even Thatcher reluctantly admired him. Temple Bar, Free transport for the elderly, etc etc…

so is this why she stuck her size nine in her mouth and prevented a criminal trial of the guy?

constitutionus

Rovi wrote:

Ongoing coverage since 11.00.
The newsflash was in the Tubridy Show around 10.50.

with sod all on telly, their showing fecking tellybingo now!

constitutionus

dbnavan wrote:

Before any more attacks on me the original, thread smply said today is not the day. There is no point in preaching to the choir, as a FG supporter, he is one of the reasons I cant stand FF.

then dont engage in the usual hypocracy. today is the bloody day cause christ knows we need some balance to the rampant sycopathy thats going on now. if you dont want to talk ill about him fine, but dont tell me or anyone else what to do!

miju

feel sorry for the family , hope he RIP at the same time good riddance

sceptre

constitutionus wrote:

but dont tell me or anyone else what to do!

I read the thread as a suggestion, not a specific order to you or anyone else not hopping on a donkey masquerading as a high horse.

I believe you've made your point three times, getting less eloquent each time.

Personally I'll leave it for a day or two before reminding everyone of my specific views on Haughey's career and goings-on but that isn't because I was told to or anything because I wasn't and neither were you.

dixiefly

I dont think he should.
I am not saying that he did not do good or a service to the country but it's just the fact the he took bribes while in the highest office in the land, failed to declare his income to the taxman and cheated on his wife for many years.

Haughey was more interested in what he could get for himself thab anything else. He must have cost the state millions in tribunal fees. He spent the last 40 years laughing at the ordinary irish people and at the same time as he was taking these bribes he was able to keep his Abbeyville mansion allowing it to appreciate signicicantly increase in value.

Let's save the money set aside for the funeral and use it to pay the fat cat lawyers that became millionaires as a result of his and his associates' shennagins.

Hmm_Messiah

I'm not sure he took bribes as such did h? As in money for wehich he then promised certain actions?? I think he lived a life closer to the french presidency, a make believe world which others facilitated.

I know he did significantly things as health Minister, and Finance minsiter for the elderly. He also promoted art and business in Dublin in ways which have revitalised the city centre.

shoul dhe have a state funeral. Ironically Conor Cruse O Brien said he didnt think so only on Sunday. However he was Taoiseach, elected to the Dail and supported in government. The government has offered a state funeral and the family accepted. I don't see it as any bad thing. Denying the man a state funeral would not in any way admonish him, he is dead after all! Its petty and childish to wield power or deny some one something simply when you can.

The is no doubt great hypocrisy in how he asked ireland to tighten its belt etc. But a death is not the time to regurgitate criticisms. He was a man, and all men deserves some respect in death, as do their families .

ronanp

dathi1 wrote:

As Harney said he was responsible for founding the economic boom of today.
Even Thatcher reluctantly admired him. Temple Bar, Free transport for the elderly, etc etc…

Well, if Harney and Thatcher were fans.......

crybaby

cheating on his wife has absolutley nothing to do with whether he deserves a state funeral or not

for all the dodgy things he was knee deep in, he did do alot of significant and important things for the country so yes give it to him

MadsL

The Govt. has offered a State Funeral, family accepted.

Neither have any sense of shame.

Sure am glad my taxes will pay for this crook's beatification. Disgrace.

Dirk Gently

The fact is he is going to get one. RTE have said that C.J. himself even planned the funeral route. It is disgusting to think someone as corrupt as him will get state honours.

The best response would be for citizens to stay away on Friday.
Looks like CJ will get the last laugh though, with a lavish funeral paid for by the ordinary people of this country with whom he had nothing in common.

gandalf

He should have died in Jail.

I do feel sympathy for his family.

dixiefly

Cheating on his wife in itself does not justify a poor and damming reflection on his life and times. However it is just one of a number of areas in which he has been proven to be a liar and a cheat. Neither he nor his family should be feted in the way the Bertie & co are planning to do.
Give the money it would cost to the Health services.

ISAW

clown bag wrote:

The fact is he is going to get one. RTE have said that C.J. himself even planned the funeral route. It is disgusting to think someone as corrupt as him will get state honours.

The best response would be for citizens to stay away on Friday.
Looks like CJ will get the last laugh though, with a lavish funeral paid for by the ordinary people of this country with whom he had nothing in common.

This is just a stupid discussion which panders to the best of gutter media trivial bottom dredging. You cant cahnge the law in two days to prevent ex Taoisigh getting a state funeral. Of course if the majority of people actually believed what you believe i.e. that the law is wrong then they would have changed it already wouldnt they. It is a unchangable fringe issue designed to promote vitriol and division. Tabliid stuff.

Avns1s

constitutionus wrote:

bollocks, im not a politician so why should i abide by his hypocritical standards! the man was a crook, and kennys not exactly mister squeaky clean either in his dealings.

Would you care to be more specific on the uncleanness of Kenny's dealings or is this another rant without any substance that I'm becoming more used to in these forums. The usual criticism of Enda Kenny is that his image is too squeaky clean for most. So perhaps you might give us the benefit of your knowledge of his "shady dealings"! It might help gain him support among those who think he's too "squeaky clean". Will be waiting with baited breath for your return post.

gandalf

Of course he shouldn't have a state funeral. His family should be made "tighten their belts" and fork out for his funeral themselves. The money can be better spent on the health of the people who did actually pay their taxes and helped keep this economy running in the 80's rather than a freeloader like Haughey.

RIP

On a slightly similar note, are the Irish Times implying something here?

Mr Ahern added that Mr Ahern's achievements "have become clouded by the revelations that are the subject of inquiry by the Moriarty Tribunal."

From here: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2006/0613/breaking23.htm

ISAW

gandalf wrote:

Of course he shouldn't have a state funeral. His family should be made "tighten their belts" and fork out for his funeral themselves. The money can be better spent on the health of the people who did actually pay their taxes and helped keep this economy running in the 80's rather than a freeloader like Haughey.

Thats a seperate issue to whether he is entitled to one. One can argue that money is better spent on hospitals than the Arts or Defence as well. the point is that no matter what the argument about how money should be spent he is legally entitled to it.

constitutionus

Avns1s wrote:

Would you care to be more specific on the uncleanness of Kenny's dealings or is this another rant without any substance that I'm becoming more used to in these forums. The usual criticism of Enda Kenny is that his image is too squeaky clean for most. So perhaps you might give us the benefit of your knowledge of his "shady dealings"! It might help gain him support among those who think he's too "squeaky clean". Will be waiting with baited breath for your return post.

ok the rossport five. they say a week is a long time in politics, kenny disappeared for two months on this issue and then came out feigning support fro em. then it came out he orderd his brother to vote through the pipeline in the countly councill sitting on the issue . that murky enough for you?

The Corinthian

Haughey was a former, and influential, Taoiseach of Ireland.

If he had an affair bares no relationship to his political role. It’s not unusual and there are plenty of faithful crooks and philandering stalwarts in politics. I didn’t hear anyone whinging that Emmet Stag was corrupt on the basis that he was a fan of rent boys, after all. Stop being so fscking Anglo-Saxon.

While there were numerous allegations that have certainly tarnished his reputation and legacy, to date none of these have been proven criminal. This could be because he was being protected, or people in high places wanted to protect themselves or any other reason people here want to stamp their feet and talk crap about, but in the end he faced nothing more than a tribunal that quietly faded once the dull-eyed electorate had grown bored with it. Why do you think tribunals were invented?

On that basis he should be given a State funeral. And if you don’t like it, why don’t you go after the guys who allegedly covered up for him rather, seeing they can still be prosecuted? I’m sure they’d prefer you to go after a corpse instead and consider the matter closed.

constitutionus

sceptre wrote:

I read the thread as a suggestion, not a specific order to you or anyone else not hopping on a donkey masquerading as a high horse.

I believe you've made your point three times, getting less eloquent each time.

Personally I'll leave it for a day or two before reminding everyone of my specific views on Haughey's career and goings-on but that isn't because I was told to or anything because I wasn't and neither were you.

well its sounded like an order to me, and how you interpret things is your concern so quit the patronising manner

Dirk Gently

ISAW wrote:

This is just a stupid discussion which panders to the best of gutter media trivial bottom dredging. You cant cahnge the law in two days to prevent ex Taoisigh getting a state funeral. Of course if the majority of people actually believed what you believe i.e. that the law is wrong then they would have changed it already wouldnt they. It is a unchangable fringe issue designed to promote vitriol and division. Tabliid stuff.

What’s your point ISAW?

I gave my opinion which is that I think it is disgusting that C.J. should have a state funeral.

If law was everything then there would be no need to ask people’s opinion as all our opinions would be the same as law. It is my opinion that a man who lived a kings lifestyle, who lied and received money he did not earn should not be honoured by the state unless the state wishes to hold up corruption and self interest as admirable traits which we should all try to display.

Speaking of gutter media and tabloid trash, that’s what I would call all the false and forced mandatory "tributes" pouring in from other leaders. It's just what is expected from them and is no more than lip service. To say C.J. was a great man who deserves a hero’s funeral is wrong. Personally I don't think his death should get any more coverage than someone who dies in a road accident. More often than not people who die in road accidents are more honourable Irish people than C.J. ever was.

You seem to be content to argue that he is "legally" entitled to a state funeral, this doesn't mean that people can't disagree with that law.

Avns1s

constitutionus wrote:

ok the rossport five. they say a week is a long time in politics, kenny disappeared for two months on this issue and then came out feigning support fro em. then it came out he orderd his brother to vote through the pipeline in the countly councill sitting on the issue . that murky enough for you?

This is YOUR opinion. It may have been the best way of handling the issue to which there are TWO sides. Not everyone would support the stance of the Rossport five. Thats democracy!! Not MURKY at all!

So the question remains, give us evidence of real shady dealings or at least be man enough to admit that there aren't any or maybe it's you who is the real "coward"!!! It's very easy to come in here anonymously and mouth off with outragous statements particularly when people aren't here to defend themselves.

constitutionus

leagally he's entitled to one and theres no way around it. and with a fianna fail government theres no way its not going to happen. personally if we get the day off work i know where ill be and it wont be on the procession route:D

constitutionus

Avns1s wrote:

This is YOUR opinion. It may have been the best way of handling the issue to which there are TWO sides. Not everyone would support the stance of the Rossport five. Thats democracy!! Not MURKY at all!

So the question remains, give us evidence of real shady dealings or at least be man enough to admit that there aren't any or maybe it's you who is the real "coward"!!! It's very easy to come in here anonymously and mouth off with outragous statements particularly when people aren't here to defend themselves.

no its not my opinion, its what was reported in the news. its called being two faced and deliberatly missleading the public while acting through a third party to look after your business mates. And if disappearing off the edge of the planet when the biggest issue in your constituancy blows up in your face and the only thing that gets you to talk about it is when somone in your consitiuancy office calls the gardai on the wives of the rossport 5 when they waited 7 hours for you to turn up then yes, hes a coward!