Funds shortfall puts back main road to 2015

Navan Junction

Irish Independent, Monday June 12th 2006

DREAMS of a dual-carriageway linking Dublin to Cork may not now be realised until almost 2015 due to growing funding difficulties.

The Mitchelstown by-pass in North Cork - one of the key projects on the N8 - will not commence major construction work until 2008 with the road unlikely to be ready for traffic before 2010/2011.

It had been thought that preliminary construction work would begin on the project later this year - but such works will not commence for another two years.

And with two further major by-pass projects - the Urlingford and Abbeyleix-/Durrow by-passes - still at the advanced planning stage - the prospect of having the first national dual-carriageway in place by the end of the decade is now virtually impossible.

The news of the delay in the Mitchelstown by-pass came despite the imminent opening of the long-awaited Fermoy by-pass - which will remove arguably the worst bottle-neck on Ireland's busiest roadway.

The 17.4km Fermoy dual-carriageway features a high-span 450-metre bridge crossing the River Blackwater - and will open in late September or early October.

Like the M50 in Dublin, it will feature a toll - with a by-pass along the N8 in Kilkenny also expected to require a usage fee from motorists.

While the Mitchelstown by-pass is delayed, the relief road around the town will open within the next six months.

Work is also at an advanced stage on the Cashel-Mitchelstown road improvement project, a 37km dual-carriageway which will cost more than €450m.

However, the other by-pass projects, which will remove Urlingford, Durrow and Abbeyleix from the Dublin-Cork road, are not expected to be completed until 2010.

The Cullahill to Cashel road, which will by-pass the remaining towns on the route, will commence in 2007 and will not be ready until 2008/2009.

The Portlaoise to Cullahill scheme is still at the planning stage and, when developed, will be a Public-Private Partnership (PPP).

It is unlikely to be ready before 2011.

Ralph Riegel

© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/

road_high

Navan Junction wrote:

Irish Independent, Monday June 12th 2006

DREAMS of a dual-carriageway linking Dublin to Cork may not now be realised until almost 2015 due to growing funding difficulties.

The Mitchelstown by-pass in North Cork - one of the key projects on the N8 - will not commence major construction work until 2008 with the road unlikely to be ready for traffic before 2010/2011.

It had been thought that preliminary construction work would begin on the project later this year - but such works will not commence for another two years.

And with two further major by-pass projects - the Urlingford and Abbeyleix-/Durrow by-passes - still at the advanced planning stage - the prospect of having the first national dual-carriageway in place by the end of the decade is now virtually impossible.

The news of the delay in the Mitchelstown by-pass came despite the imminent opening of the long-awaited Fermoy by-pass - which will remove arguably the worst bottle-neck on Ireland's busiest roadway.

The 17.4km Fermoy dual-carriageway features a high-span 450-metre bridge crossing the River Blackwater - and will open in late September or early October.

Like the M50 in Dublin, it will feature a toll - with a by-pass along the N8 in Kilkenny also expected to require a usage fee from motorists.

While the Mitchelstown by-pass is delayed, the relief road around the town will open within the next six months.

Work is also at an advanced stage on the Cashel-Mitchelstown road improvement project, a 37km dual-carriageway which will cost more than €450m.

However, the other by-pass projects, which will remove Urlingford, Durrow and Abbeyleix from the Dublin-Cork road, are not expected to be completed until 2010.

The Cullahill to Cashel road, which will by-pass the remaining towns on the route, will commence in 2007 and will not be ready until 2008/2009.

The Portlaoise to Cullahill scheme is still at the planning stage and, when developed, will be a Public-Private Partnership (PPP).

It is unlikely to be ready before 2011.

Ralph Riegel

© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/

TBH I'm disgusted to be reading this- just when we thought there was some actual progress being made with the roads, another bombshell is dropped with seemingless endless delays.
My patience is wearing very thin with this govt and their complete imcompetence when it comes to infrastructure; they're always bragging about the economy and the record surplus in the exchequer- what complete and utter bullsh1t.
You know if they re-invested all the cash they drain out of us through VRT and VAT on cars we could pay for the roads programme with in a few years.
So is this the first nail in the coffin of the already under-ambitious Transport21??
And what of the other projects on the N9/11/7/6/3? Are these going to be now pushed back too; if they can't finish the most important road in the country (N8), I would imagine these will be pushed further down the list of priority.

bryanw

If they keep saying 2011, where did they get their 2015 from? That's a gap of 4 YEARS. I don't think 2011 counts as nearly 2015.

This is just another attempt by the Irish Independent to take a cheap shot at the government (like so many others). Where is their evidence for this "funds shortfall", it's nonsense. And besides, for a project this big to be opened on one year after first expected - it's not bad at all, but the Indo have to make it sound like the apocalypse.

Looks like they also didn't put a lot of effort into their research, because they descibe it as if by-passes like Abbeyliex/Durrow are separate schemes. They are part of the Portlaoise/Cullahill M7/M8 plan. Then there is the N8 Cullahill/Cashel.

Portlaoise/Castletown/Cullahill M7/M8:

Link to file DoT

Its an article loosely bound with thin threads of truth. Don't listen to them! Where's our official word on this....?

Bards

The N9 is on schedule to be copmpleted by 2010

Chris_533976

I think the NRA are hitting funding issues. First the Cork Roundabouts, now this.

Its a pity it will be delayed further. But the Mitchelstown section IS the least important now, with the relief road almost done.

And no, the relief road is NOT 6 months from completion. Its almost done. Month or 2 at the most.

dowlingm

hmmm.... interesting map. If only IE were on the ball enough to secure a part of the reservation between the Dub-Cork and Borris-on-Ossory - if they ran a direct curve through that corridor it gets them most of the way to Borris which could then be extended through to join the Roscrea line which would open the possibility of Portlaoise based railcars doing early morning BOO-Roscrea-Nenagh-Limerick rather than running them up from Limerick as at present and of Dublin-Limerick IC/freight via Roscrea to free up the Dublin-Cork for Tralee/Cork trains.

If only they could be that on the ball! Isn't it about time a roads scheme did something to help rail?

spacetweek

mfitzy wrote:

TBH I'm disgusted to be reading this- just when we thought there was some actual progress being made with the roads, another bombshell is dropped with seemingless endless delays.
My patience is wearing very thin with this govt and their complete imcompetence when it comes to infrastructure; they're always bragging about the economy and the record surplus in the exchequer- what complete and utter bullsh1t.

Mfitzy you need to be careful; this article comes from the Indo - not exactly a reputable newspaper any more. There were so many errors in the article that I laughed out loud when I read it. Here are a few:

- The NRA said at the beginning of the year that Mitchelstown would be the last to start in 2008 so this is news is not new. However it is still on target for 2010.
- Urlingford and Abbeyleix are one project, not two, and will start next year - and are still on target for 2010.
- Road bypassing Kilkenny incorrectly stated as N8 instead of N9. Also the N9 is not being tolled. (He's probably thinking of the N25 at Waterford or something).
- Mitchelstown RR to open in July, not in six months.
- Cullahill to Cashel road was supposed to start this year and there are still 6 months left. However the author states that it has been pushed to 2007 with no evidence given.
- Author starts by stating that there is a "Funding Shortfall" and that the completion date is now 2015. However absolutely no evidence is given for either of these assertions.

Can posters please be careful in future about lifting articles from the Indo? I mean, seriously!

road_high

spacetweek wrote:

Mfitzy you need to be careful; this article comes from the Indo - not exactly a reputable newspaper any more. There were so many errors in the article that I laughed out loud when I read it. Here are a few:

- The NRA said at the beginning of the year that Mitchelstown would be the last to start in 2008 so this is news is not new. However it is still on target for 2010.
- Urlingford and Abbeyleix are one project, not two, and will start next year - and are still on target for 2010.
- Road bypassing Kilkenny incorrectly stated as N8 instead of N9. Also the N9 is not being tolled. (He's probably thinking of the N25 at Waterford or something).
- Mitchelstown RR to open in July, not in six months.
- Cullahill to Cashel road was supposed to start this year and there are still 6 months left. However the author states that it has been pushed to 2007 with no evidence given.
- Author starts by stating that there is a "Funding Shortfall" and that the completion date is now 2015. However absolutely no evidence is given for either of these assertions.

Can posters please be careful in future about lifting articles from the Indo? I mean, seriously!

I hope you're right- it's just we have had so many delays in the past, it would make you very sceptical.
Think he mean't County Kilkenny in reference to the N8, part of the Cashel-Cullahill project goes through the north of it.I dunno if the N9 will be tolled or not; can anyone clarify this for definite?I hear conflicting reports.
The Indo isn't the most reliable, you're right, they seem to have gone in for a tabloid style sensationalist approach in recent years, which is unfortunate.

I hope the 'no smoke without fire' saying isn't the case here!!

Bards

The N9 will NOT be Tolled.. heard it from Cullen himself!

Chris_533976

I know this will fuel the fire of an old debate, but does anyone think the M7/M8 spur is silly?

Seems to me that if they moved the M8 spur to the east, they'd avoid putting traffic onto the Portlaoise bypass, and save trouble with jamups there in the future?

nordydan

I am surprised they didnt blame sinn fein for the delays.

I presume the M7/8 interchange is to save money, the current plans make more sense.

murphaph

nordydan wrote:

I am surprised they didnt blame sinn fein for the delays.

Nah, they've always waited until the transport infrastructure was in place before blowing it up

nordydan wrote:

I presume the M7/8 interchange is to save money, the current plans make more sense.

Agreed on both counts. The current proposals are fine. I agree that the article as scaremongering more than anything else. The dates weren't even matching up ffs! Lousy journalism.

popebenny16

I know for a fact that the M7 scheme is propgessing at the planned pace. The CPO process between Borris-in-Ossory and Nenagh is in full flow, I'm meeting their valuers on a few sites next week. The archilogical digs ahev come and gone around Rathdowney, they plan to start fencing off what will be the motorway route come September, if not earlier.

This is just the usual Indo crap.

mysterious

popebenny16 wrote:

I know for a fact that the M7 scheme is propgessing at the planned pace. The CPO process between Borris-in-Ossory and Nenagh is in full flow, I'm meeting their valuers on a few sites next week. The archilogical digs ahev come and gone around Rathdowney, they plan to start fencing off what will be the motorway route come September, if not earlier.

This is just the usual Indo crap.

Yep the Nenagh to Limerick section is fenced off and all archeoligist digs (error in spelling) have been completed I believe, enough of the constant blabbing of the N8 they are way ahead compared to the rest..

THE N7 is just AS important as the N8... N7 scheme is to start this year? back in spring, much more traffic there than the mitchelltown section ffs.
I mean 14,000 at Nenagh to 20,000 near Dalys cross( just to mention that this road has got so heavy at peak periods tailbacks a starting at this junction recently) compared to nearly 11,000 a day at mitchelltown.

I wait to hear a corkonian response to this comparison, oh please.

mysterious

bryanw wrote:

If they keep saying 2011, where did they get their 2015 from? That's a gap of 4 YEARS. I don't think 2011 counts as nearly 2015.

This is just another attempt by the Irish Independent to take a cheap shot at the government (like so many others). Where is their evidence for this "funds shortfall", it's nonsense. And besides, for a project this big to be opened on one year after first expected - it's not bad at all, but the Indo have to make it sound like the apocalypse.

Looks like they also didn't put a lot of effort into their research, because they descibe it as if by-passes like Abbeyliex/Durrow are separate schemes. They are part of the Portlaoise/Cullahill M7/M8 plan. Then there is the N8 Cullahill/Cashel.

Portlaoise/Castletown/Cullahill M7/M8:

Link to file DoT

Its an article loosely bound with thin threads of truth. Don't listen to them! Where's our official word on this....?

It would have been much more sense to keep mainline M7 cross over north of Castletown and continue straight to the proposed west of Borris a lignment.?? and the M8 spur is fine, as it's seem shorther than N8, but the N7 seems like it's shorter than the M7 if you see from the map?

Just my thoughts and two cents..

dowlingm

this is just me sh!t stirring but is it a coincidence that the National Ploughing Championships tends to be held in that area quite a bit and this new road runs right through it I know the traffic in that area is pretty catastrophic when it does.

mysterious

dowlingm wrote:

this is just me sh!t stirring but is it a coincidence that the National Ploughing Championships tends to be held in that area quite a bit and this new road runs right through it I know the traffic in that area is pretty catastrophic when it does.

Stirring... cough,ahem, stirr it more, talk about tension on this thread since you started:rolleyes: ...................:p

Plough the way.

Aidan1

THE N7 is just AS important as the N8... N7 scheme is to start this year? back in spring, much more traffic there than the mitchelltown section ffs.
I mean 14,000 at Nenagh to 20,000 near Dalys cross( just to mention that this road has got so heavy at peak periods tailbacks a starting at this junction recently) compared to nearly 11,000 a day at mitchelltown.

I wait to hear a corkonian response to this comparison, oh please.

No one is claiming that the N7 is any less important than the N8. Apart from the fact that the N7 is a lot better quality road, it is also the primary Commuting route into Limerick city for a lot of people living in new developments to the east. The main commuting routes into Cork are from the South and East, not on the N8, although that is changing.

BTW, the NRA figures for the Average Daily Volumes for the Nenagh BP in March 06 was 7336 (Although the figures at Rossbrien was 17,924 for December 05 - suggests that 'national' traffic isn't the main driver of volume growth), the equivelant for Mitchelstown was 12,843. By the Watergrasshill BP, the figure was 15,336 (probably slightly fairer in terms of distance).

By comparison, the figure for the N25 at Little Island was 46,893 for March. Even at Annacoty, the figures are less than half that.

Chris_533976

I have to commend them on doing the Irish Solution to the Little Island traffic lights.... putting a new lane on the N25 to store the traffic jam instead of fixing the problem

nordydan

Originally Posted by nordydan
I am surprised they didnt blame sinn fein for the delays.

murphaph wrote:

Nah, they've always waited until the transport infrastructure was in place before blowing it up

Not a bad comeback. For a west brit, you seem to have learned some of the native sense of humour!

mysterious

Aidan1 wrote:

No one is claiming that the N7 is any less important than the N8. Apart from the fact that the N7 is a lot better quality road, it is also the primary Commuting route into Limerick city for a lot of people living in new developments to the east. The main commuting routes into Cork are from the South and East, not on the N8, although that is changing.

BTW, the NRA figures for the Average Daily Volumes for the Nenagh BP in March 06 was 7336 (Although the figures at Rossbrien was 17,924 for December 05 - suggests that 'national' traffic isn't the main driver of volume growth), the equivelant for Mitchelstown was 12,843. By the Watergrasshill BP, the figure was 15,336 (probably slightly fairer in terms of distance).

By comparison, the figure for the N25 at Little Island was 46,893 for March. Even at Annacoty, the figures are less than half that.

Well A lot of N7 users don't use Rossbrien since N18 traffic and limerick traffic use Annacotty which is still 20,000 A.A.D.T, Phase 2 is yet to start. Most of the Traffic generated on Rossbrien is dublin bound/east Limerick heading west towards Kerry and beyond. Childer's road still has a rather large chunk of traffic that is through traffic, so IMO could explain the lower level of traffic at Rossbrien. Traffic at Lisnagry is and must be over 20,000 since Castleconnell and Newport roads merge here.
Rossbrien is relatively new road, so of course traffic is relatively quieter than the old N7 etc. or the N8 at Dunkettle for that matter.

Yes the Nenagh Bypass is quite low compared to the N7 in fact it's the the lowest count on cars on any recoreded sections of the N7 funny you state this counter. Take New Inn for example is lower than any other section of N7 or N8. N8 traffic has grown considerably because the road has improved and the recent openings of the Watergrasshill, Cashel bypasses and now Fermoy. There is no access for local traffic to use the N7 bypass of Nenagh except for the ends where local traffic merge off/on. such as the Thurles road etc and Dolla roads these R roads have quite a lot of traffic entering Nenagh on a regular basis and go en route to Limerick, Creating congestion. the and also the lenght and distance from the town means less local traffic from around Nenagh would use it etc. Even the hinterland of Nenagh is not accessible to the bypass.

Take Portlaoise for example has more than three accesses/interchanges even give it's simular lenght as the Nenagh bypass. Though figures on the old N7 road is relativly simular to the existing bypass, just go to show how much traffic does deter the N7 bypass. Almost 6,000 cars alone From Nenagh/Borriskane area commute to Limerick every day,This study was carried out in Nenagh. figures in 2004 for traffic counts(documented section) on www.nra.ie/ is nearly double the Nenagh bypass along most of the Nenagh to Limerick route. At Dalys cross its close to three times the level of the Bypass.

Look at the counts for the Old N7 prior to the Nenagh bypass and it's much higher than the Mitchelltown counter. That section of N8 bear in mind has a high percentage of local traffic, when given the fact the mitchellstown and fermoy are both medium sized towns relatively close in distance and the current sprawl of Cork sneaking along this route.

Daly's cross is around the same figure as the traffic near Watergrasshil. Population alone justifies level of traffic using the N7 never mind the 2,000 H.G.V vehicles that pass there every day.

Victor

Bards wrote:

The N9 is on schedule to be copmpleted by 2010

Yes, but which part? And what of the M9?

Bards

Carlow bypass is under construction
Waterford to knocktopher starting before end of 2006
Knocktopher to Carlow starting 2007
Carlow to Kilcullen starting 2007/8

Entire N9 to be complete by end of 2010

popebenny16

Nenagh bypass figures are misleading. People in Nenagh do not use it, there is no direct access to it, commuters to Limerick, or anywhere else, and people who go to Nenagh for work and that will not show up, therefore the Daly's Cross and the Toomevara figures will be the more accurate.

mysterious

popebenny16 wrote:

Nenagh bypass figures are misleading. People in Nenagh do not use it, there is no direct access to it, commuters to Limerick, or anywhere else, and people who go to Nenagh for work and that will not show up, therefore the Daly's Cross and the Toomevara figures will be the more accurate.

Thank you! for backing this up, Whoever posted the figures for Nenagh bypass comparing to the N8 road near south of mitchelltown, Is just actively selecting the route to back his opinion:rolleyes:

He should have picked south of Nenagh the existing road, where local traffic is somewhat average, since Mitchellstown has a higher level of commuting local traffic. Traffic on the Nenagh counter before the N52 bypass was 6,600 A.A.D.T. its' now about 4,200 since the N52 link. The route From an obvious prediction would be around 7,000 a day joining the Nenagh Bypass which is 7,333 or there abouts. add these figures.:p You get over 14,000 a day, Dalys cross kicks fermoy ass...

Even way back in 1998 it was significantly higher than any section of N8 between Fermoy to Mitchellstown.

.

Just off this arguement which is already solved. The Waterford route is hideous, there are very few towns on this route, or at least there are not suffering traffic conjestion, a dual carrigeway is not needed for most of its lenght. IMO I think a dual road is only needed from South of Carlow to Kilcullen, and From Waterford city for a few miles of Dual on this section.
Traffic is low at 5,000 in some sections, with a smaller level of H.G.V compared to the other regional cities. This route was put on the back bencher till 2009, But Fcuk head Cullen pampered this route. It's just not politically correct....

popebenny16

about Waterford, from where the N9/N10 join and head to waterford there are about three decent places to overtake, leading to madness, some of which I saw on the bank holiday. Also just as bad into Kilkenny, only about a further three passing points. I'm not saying the Motirway is a solution, but the road really needs to be widened a lot.

bazzer06

mysterious wrote:

Just off this arguement which is already solved. The Waterford route is hideous, there are very few towns on this route, or at least there are not suffering traffic conjestion, a dual carrigeway is not needed for most of its lenght. IMO I think a dual road is only needed from South of Carlow to Kilcullen, and From Waterford city for a few miles of Dual on this section.
Traffic is low at 5,000 in some sections, with a smaller level of H.G.V compared to the other regional cities. This route was put on the back bencher till 2009, But Fcuk head Cullen pampered this route. It's just not politically correct....

How many times are people going to put forward these ridiculous arguments??? We have the money now, we might not "need" dual carriageways and motorways based on current figures but we WILL need them in the future. Can we stop being so petty and look at the bigger picture?

They will all be built - does it really matter if the Waterford route is finished a year before the Cork one?

Aidan1

Just off this arguement which is already solved

My arse it is. I know you think Limerick is this huuuuge hidden Metropolis on the Shannon, but you've just done precisely what you accused me of doing ... selected a point on a route to 'big up' the volume, regardless of the context. As I stated, the two routes in question, N7 and N8 fulfil entirely different functions at that point in their proximity to the urban centres in question - The N7 /after/ Nenagh, as I pointed out, becomes a major commuter route, before that point, on the Nenagh bypass (which is, last I checked, part of the N7) volumes are low as the traffic is mainly 'national' - just like through Mitchelstown. And yet volumes are still only slightly greater than through Mitchelstown (albeit a more careful analysis will show that the Limerick volumes are higher at rush hour due to the commuting nature of the traffic).

In Cork, the N8 is only emerging as a commuter route now (particularly since the Watergrasshill BP). The main commuter routes are elsewhere in Cork. Regardless, I'd still prefer to drive the N7 at rush hour than the N8 (and I've done both in the last few months) - the N7 is a better road.

Its not a matter of which 'kicks ass', this isn't a competition - if it were the Naas road or M50 would be the winner and we could all go home(slowly!). The issue is one of allocation of resources. Cork is the second biggest city in the state (by some margin), and the road network joining it to Dublin is poor - given the volumes of 'national' traffic it should receive the upgrades necessary (as should Limerick, of course - but in accordance with a rational prioritisation of investment).

As for the N9, both Castledermot and Carlow are major blockages on that route - as is the KK 'bypass' - they all require a proper bypass - its politically convenient for Cullen to do it now, but in reality it would have to happen at some point in the future anyway, HQDC isn't required, but since the additional investment over and above a 2 lane road isn't all that much, its as well to do it now and have the infrastructure in place.

mysterious

Aidan1 wrote:

My arse it is. I know you think Limerick is this huuuuge hidden Metropolis on the Shannon, but you've just done precisely what you accused me of doing ... selected a point on a route to 'big up' the volume, regardless of the context.

yeh right... So you are able to read my mind. ok.

I didn't I could give higher figures. If your going to compare South of Nenagh and compare south of Kilworth Camp, both HAVE high level of commuter traffic... N7 bypass has pratically no commuter, local traffic.... Please stop bluffing, it's to common for me to cop. The couner is just as near to Fermoy as it's near Mitchellstown,From my memory the Counter is a few mile's further south than Kilworth. High level of commuter, and local traffic between both towns explain the higher level of traffic. To be honest Dublin traffic would make little impact IMO, which is easily par with the N7 south of Nenagh, but what whatever you say!;) I KNOW why you picked the Bypass of Nenagh, it's a misleading comparison to Kilworth camp, sorry. I'm open to fairer comparison's If anyone is boasting it's you, because your the one who is twisting the entire N8 route in your opinion and comparing it to a totally different section of the N7.

Now I have not boasted any figures, please admit proper comparisons.

Aidan wrote:

As I stated, the two routes in question, N7 and N8 fulfil entirely different functions at that point in their proximity to the urban centres in question - The N7 /after/ Nenagh, as I pointed out, becomes a major commuter route, before that point, on the Nenagh bypass (which is, last I checked, part of the N7) volumes are low as the traffic is mainly 'national' - just like through Mitchelstown.

Bull, again.:) Kilworth camp has one of the higest levels of traffic than any section of N8 because it's proximity to Cork and most large towns are located here, thus is locally generated. again Nenagh by pass has less accesses and junctions than Kilworth, no local traffic uses the Bp, that's why the level here is the lowest than any single section on the N7, again interesting again, why you choose this section, plus the fact there is a higher population, ie two towns (not much smaller than Nenagh respectively) close together ie Mitchellstown and Fermoy.

Aidan wrote:

And yet volumes are still only slightly greater than through Mitchelstown (albeit a more careful analysis will show that the Limerick volumes are higher at rush hour due to the commuting nature of the traffic).

ahem your really bush about matter of opinion. I hear at RUSH HOUR, silly silly me on AAroadwatch frequently that Fermoy and Mitchellstown get rush hour traffic on most days NB on N8 from Cork,NOTE FROM Cork?, after work?? again where are your figures noting at rush hour Limerick has more traffic at this time, love to to see the link.

So this has NOTHING TO DO WITH cork Dublin traffic. as Dublin N8 traffic will not be significant at this time. the time like most N routes would be around 6/7 pm likwise the N7/ SB would be mostly Longdistance traffic at this time (which does not suffer as much on rush hour). I bet you would'nt understand this point.

Aidan wrote:

In Cork, the N8 is only emerging as a commuter route now (particularly since the Watergrasshill BP). The main commuter routes are elsewhere in Cork. Regardless, I'd still prefer to drive the N7 at rush hour than the N8 (and I've done both in the last few months) - the N7 is a better road.

No one is arguing that the N7 is a better road. It is because the N7 used to carry a much larger amount of traffic than the N8, as in it was more significant. N8 is a relativley new road, since they changed the road numbering "Trunk road" T5 etc to N routes. The old route used to follow the N78. This is Another topic, but no harm in pointing this out.

The N8 is a commuter route for quite some time regardless as to what you personally say because the N8 you choosed is the busiest section of N8 ie from Cork to Dublin. There is quite a few towns there too.. :rolleyes: It's seems to explain why all the new roads are under construction here at such a busy commuter route, get over it, all the towns on this route have being expanding greatly for the last 10 years because of It's proximity to Cork, and because the city of Cork is bigger the commuter belt would stretch out further than the Limerick commuter belt. just worth a mention on a point you were very wrong on, the primary commuting route in Limerick Is Raheen. As raheen is the biggest suburb in Limerick, though it's off topic, just to clarify the point you made of the N7 being a commuter route, some areas of east limerick is sparsly populated.

Aidan wrote:

Its not a matter of which 'kicks ass', this isn't a competition - if it were the Naas road or M50 would be the winner and we could all go home(slowly!). The issue is one of allocation of resources. Cork is the second biggest city in the state (by some margin), and the road network joining it to Dublin is poor - given the volumes of 'national' traffic it should receive the upgrades necessary (as should Limerick, of course - but in accordance with a rational prioritisation of investment).

As for the N9, both Castledermot and Carlow are major blockages on that route - as is the KK 'bypass' - they all require a proper bypass - its politically convenient for Cullen to do it now, but in reality it would have to happen at some point in the future anyway, HQDC isn't required, but since the additional investment over and above a 2 lane road isn't all that much, its as well to do it now and have the infrastructure in place.

I totally agree here, Carlow bypass is urgent. but from Carlow to Paultown is just insane, Kilkenny and Clonmel traffic diverges just south at Carlow bringing traffic levels abnormally low for national route traffic. Cork and Limerick sections are much more urgent at this stage.

Aidan1

God, I'd never understand that at all.

Never.

Lets try some figures, all taken from the NRA counters.

At Cahir, the N8 generates 10,331 trips pd.
At Mitchelstown the N8 generates 12843 trips pd. (+2512)
At Rathcormac the N8 generates 15,336 (+2493)

So each additional large town adds 'only' 2500 movements pd. Yes, there is commuting traffic. but not all that much. Specially when you compare it to this:

At the Nenagh BP, the N7 generates 7336 trips pd
At Rossbrien, the N7 generates 17,924 pd (+10,588)

Those are the figures for the national roads, right?

I hear at RUSH HOUR, silly silly me on AAroadwatch frequently that Fermoy and Mitchellstown get rush hour traffic on most days

Ahhh, AA Roadwatch, the font of all wisdom. Come on then, tell me why traffic travelling NB through Fermoy may be backed up?

It's seems to explain why all the new roads are under construction here at such a busy commuter route, get over it, all the towns on this route have being expanding greatly for the last 10 years because of It's proximity to Cork, and because the city of Cork is bigger the commuter belt would stretch out further than Limerick.

As pointed out above, its clearly not such a 'busy commuter route' - at least not nearly as busy as the N7 stretch - and those figures are for March of this year. It is expanding as a commuter route, and it also carries substantial volumes of national traffic - and is operating far above its 'design' capacity, hence the upgrades - which was exactly my point in my last post when I said ...

The issue is one of allocation of resources. Cork is the second biggest city in the state (by some margin), and the road network joining it to Dublin is poor - given the volumes of 'national' traffic it should receive the upgrades necessary (as should Limerick, of course - but in accordance with a rational prioritisation of investment).

Now, what was your point again?

mysterious

Aidan1 wrote:

God, I'd never understand that at all.

Never.

well I can understand your ignorance to ingnore my points but you want me to take your point, what age are you?

aidan wrote:

Lets try some figures, all taken from the NRA counters.

At Cahir, the N8 generates 10,331 trips pd.
At Mitchelstown the N8 generates 12843 trips pd. (+2512)
At Rathcormac the N8 generates 15,336 (+2493)

at least you have admitted that it is a commuter route afterall:) the Cork Dublin route is still minimul here too;) Local traffic here is huge.

Aidan wrote:

So each additional large town adds 'only' 2500 movements pd. Yes, there is commuting traffic. but not all that much. Specially when you compare it to this:

barely:D for everyone to see the striking obvious denial.

Aidan wrote:

At the Nenagh BP, the N7 generates 7336 trips pd
At Rossbrien, the N7 generates 17,924 pd (+10,588)

Those are the figures for the national roads, right?

Yep. there are but it's all about location location;) Since NRA wouldn't want to reveal traffic figures at Toomevara? or West of Nenagh. On tipp fm locals recorded traffic of average 16,000 cars passing through this Village, even I think this is bull, but I thought i'd mention it, since your unable to take anybody "elses point" anyway. I would think you would be an extraordinary person if you were to count N7 Daly's cross since you mention Rathcormac:D and come back to with figures, with would open more truth.

Side note, Rossbrien, has (again making this point to your ignorance) Is not N7, NRA downgraded the old road until they WILL put the N7 phase 2 up and running. in other words, N7 users don't use this section, i can say just by frequently using the N7 Roundabout (lisnagry) more than 60% of traffic still use the original route at Annacotty, unless your going to Ballybunion.:D

Aidan wrote:

Ahhh, AA Roadwatch, the font of all wisdom. Come on then, tell me why traffic travelling NB through Fermoy may be backed up?

Firstly why tell someone who is in denial.:) What are you talking about? lol. maybe because it crosses the blackwater? maybe because there is quite a large amount of traffic going from a to b from all the towns you mentioned? maybe because Fermoy is a satelight town from Cork, maybe because it's a bottleneck and suited for horse and Kart type traffic like Nenagh:) Yes the N8 traffic is'nt helping, don't you think.

Aidan wrote:

Now, what was your point again?

You want me to react to this?

popebenny16

The reason why Fermoy is backed up is because the N8 hits a T-Junction where it dosnt have priority, hence the tailbacks.

The vast majority of the traffic between Nenagh and Limerick is commuter traffic, Nenagh is half an hour away. 99% of that traffic comes out of Nenagh onto the N52 link road and onto the N7 and dosnt use the Nenagh by-pass. It's important to realise that there is a junction at either end of the by-pass and nothing in the middle, like the Kildare by-pass. If there was the by-pass figures for Nenagh would be considerably larger. EG, traffic from Thurles/Borrisoleigh goes through Nenagh to get out onto the N7 and cannot go onto the by-pass but they are all going to Limerick, its a badly designed road.

Go down 1km from the by-pass towards Limerick, you'll see your figure of 7336 blown out of the water.

nordydan

Listen loverboys, why cant yous both be happy that both cork and limerick are getting their motorways built? I agree that the Portlaoise-Castletown/Cullahill scheme should be prioritised, as abbeyleix and mountrath are shocking bottlenecks and the tolls would be up and running sooner. Both cities would benefit.

Regardless Belfast is irelands 2nd city and derry is its 4th, only a treasonous partitionist west brit would disagree. The N2 should be higher priority than the N9, it serves donegal and much of west ulster.

PS For people who criticise the HQDC nature of the N9, is there not a point of view that if people build the roads then the towns will develop (as in wyanes world)?

Aidan1

My point, Mysterious, is that I'm not sure what you're trying to argue?

My argument, and I've backed it up with figures, is that both routes need improvements, but that the N8, primarily because of the problems caused by Fermoy and Mitchelstown (their geography and road layout, not the 'massive' amount of additional commuter and local traffic they generate on the national route - only 2,500 each per day - come on!) should have gotten the improvements first - which is what is happening.

Yes, I know the traffic coming in to Limerick from the east is awful, but its a much better trip than trying to either get to or leave Cork on the N8 because of the issues currently being addressed.

My point on the levels of national traffic was that the N8 has higher levels of it, lending it additional status.

Now, what are you arguing? Seriously, I can't tell? Is that traffic around Limerick is bad? Not exactly news, son. Is your sole argument that the N7 'kicks the N8s ass' in terms of volume? Ok, 2,500 more pd at Rossbrien/Rathcormac, and 5k more pd at Anacotty/Glanmire. Higher volumes for Limerick (yayyyyy) generated by commuter traffic. But is that your only point? Is there a higher purpose to your argument?

As someone who uses both roads, I'm delighted that both are getting improvements, but honestly,I can't for the life of me figure out what point you're making other than telling us all how terrible commuting into Limerick is. (beats living there though )

popebenny16

I use both roads as well and all I can say is that there is a great dual carriageway out of Cork past Watergrasshill which will be added to when the Fermoy by-pass opens, and that is a great stretch of road.

Out of Limerick its an old style two lane wide road, greatly improved from Limerick to Nenagh over the past two years, but a two laner nonetheless. Perhaps that is where N7 supporters feel a bit put out, I dont know.

I'm not personally aware that one is robbing resources off of the other, werent they independantly tendered for?

road_high

mysterious wrote:

Thank you! for backing this up, Whoever posted the figures for Nenagh bypass comparing to the N8 road near south of mitchelltown, Is just actively selecting the route to back his opinion:rolleyes:

He should have picked south of Nenagh the existing road, where local traffic is somewhat average, since Mitchellstown has a higher level of commuting local traffic. Traffic on the Nenagh counter before the N52 bypass was 6,600 A.A.D.T. its' now about 4,200 since the N52 link. The route From an obvious prediction would be around 7,000 a day joining the Nenagh Bypass which is 7,333 or there abouts. add these figures.:p You get over 14,000 a day, Dalys cross kicks fermoy ass...

Even way back in 1998 it was significantly higher than any section of N8 between Fermoy to Mitchellstown.

.

Just off this arguement which is already solved. The Waterford route is hideous, there are very few towns on this route, or at least there are not suffering traffic conjestion, a dual carrigeway is not needed for most of its lenght. IMO I think a dual road is only needed from South of Carlow to Kilcullen, and From Waterford city for a few miles of Dual on this section.
Traffic is low at 5,000 in some sections, with a smaller level of H.G.V compared to the other regional cities. This route was put on the back bencher till 2009, But Fcuk head Cullen pampered this route. It's just not politically correct....

Bullsh1t- this route has been completely ignored for years, far from being pampered- fact.Funny this, less important roads like the N4 to Sligo (population approx 20,000) have seen major investment- and unlike Waterford/S Kilkenny doesn't have a major port and the associated HGV traffic.Not to mention Rosslare and New Ross ports nearby...
I'm no Cullen or FF fan but fair play to them and Seamas Brennan for prioritising this route, the worst N road in Ireland.

Very few towns??-No just, Waterford city, Kilkenny, Athy, Carlow and several others like Clonmel which will feed into the road when it's built.And a very long list of smaller towns on the route.

No traffic congestion eh? Try Carlow town every day of the week, or thomastown with it's 4m wide streets- I kid you not!
The only solution was a total 'green field' road- it would thus have been very foolish not to build this then to dual carriageway standard.
The figure of less than 5,000 vehicles per day conveniently excludes the N10 and N78; traffic from both of these will be redirected onto the new N9, as will much R700 traffic- add these and traffic volumes will easily equal the N8/7.

popebenny16

Just before i head off for the day, thought you might want to do a bit of addition:

Funny this, less important roads like the N4 to Sligo (population approx 20,000) have seen major investment

No it's not, do wave at C&D petfoods as you drive past....

Cullen present minister....

So ministers prioristise their areas, its not a scandal.... isnt it?

Victor

mysterious wrote:

This route was put on the back bencher

How Freudian.

Its mad having both the N9/N10 and N11 routes serving the south east.

popebenny16 wrote:

No it's not, do wave at C&D petfoods as you drive past....

Has it stopped smouldering?

road_high

nordydan wrote:

Listen loverboys, why cant yous both be happy that both cork and limerick are getting their motorways built? I agree that the Portlaoise-Castletown/Cullahill scheme should be prioritised, as abbeyleix and mountrath are shocking bottlenecks and the tolls would be up and running sooner. Both cities would benefit.

Regardless Belfast is irelands 2nd city and derry is its 4th, only a treasonous partitionist west brit would disagree. The N2 should be higher priority than the N9, it serves donegal and much of west ulster.

PS For people who criticise the HQDC nature of the N9, is there not a point of view that if people build the roads then the towns will develop (as in wyanes world)?

The N2 a higher priority than N9- I presume this is a pisstake or something, right??
Unlike many of the counties on the N2, those on the N9 are all net-contributors to the economy, with much higher populations and bigger centres of population.Derry (unfortunately) is not under our juristication (yet!) so it's up to the Brits to invest there.
Sure much of the N2 traffic can already divert onto the M1 into Co Louth.
I have no problem with investing in the N2, but to suggest it's more NB than the N9 is frankly ridiculous...

Victor

mfitzy wrote:

those on the N9 are all net-contributors to the economy

And to the Dáil.

murphaph

Victor wrote:

And to the Dáil.

Exactly! Not too many votes for Dail Eireann seats along the A5 however

The N9 is a far more important road for our economy, let alone its appaling condition presently requiring urgent attention.

The N7 after Mountrath is a decent enough Road in fairness, far better than the N8, so prioritising the N8 makes sense to me.

Bards

Look lads... if the N9 was going to be a single carrigeway road how many of you would be castigating the govt. over not seeing the BIG picture, and wondering why they didn't build a HQDC when they had the money considering it is to last a minimum of 20 years. 10% of Irelands population live and work in the S.E.. The reason people don't commute is the cow track that is the N9. same reason why businesses will not locate here.

If there was a good single carriageway road like there is in the rest of the country then the figures would be much higher and you would then all see the need for a HQDC.

You can NEVER have enough Infrastructure. that goes for the whole country. I would love that all the Cities were linked to each other via HQDC/Motorway/ Fast Rail. We have a once in a lifetime chance to get it right for our Children and our Children's children.

If we don't build it I can tell you one thing, They will not thank us for not doing it when we had the chance.

The S.E Is the most deprived region in the whole country. yet how can this be.. It is the closest part of the country to mainland europe. It has two ports. 450,000 people. Mountains, Beaches Golf Courses every thing you could ask

Reason is Politics. This is the first time since the founding of the state that Waterford City has a senior minister at the cabinet table and are now only getting what every other region in this country got for the last 80 years.

Remember Waterford was bigger than galway in the 1950's... Galway only surpassed Waterford by government action - They had a minister, Waterford didn't - fact; otherwise how is it that an isolated City in the West was able to grow substantially quicker than an ideally located City (Closest to mainland Europe).

So all the people of the S.E are asking for is the same positive government Investment on a par with our peer Gateway Cities. nothing more, nothing less, just the same level of investment to allow this region achieve its full potential.

Victor

Bards wrote:

The S.E Is the most deprived region in the whole country. yet how can this be....... now only getting what every other region in this country got for the last 80 years.

You make its sound like you don't have electricity yet.

mysterious

Aidan1 wrote:

My point, Mysterious, is that I'm not sure what you're trying to argue?

First of all, I'm not going to react to your opinions, and figures, since the NRA does not have counter's on the route WE are talking about right. Which I will mention down further.

Since you didn't hear my point in the first place, shall we re touch as to why it all started then, since you just keep upping your post.

Well, it all started because I came to the conclusion that the N7 between Nenagh and Limerick M7 was torn down since 2003(just to breath this last line), and it finally came about that it was to start this year in spring, It didn't.

Yet THERE IS STILL complaints that the N8 is not ahead in the schedule, like the Mitchellstown project, which is titled in the thread, right. yet it got the go ahead.


My second point was, that The Nenagh to Limerick section was busier and more important at this time than the Cashel to Mitchellstown scheme, so it should have got priortised. Instead you twisted every button, And to be honest with your facts from the NRA(which i'm aware of the figures) the figures are correct at it's given location, but is not entirely correct to compare since there are no counters on the N7 Nenagh to Limerick route we were disscussing or since you interrupted.

Third point, the counter you made obvious to me was the Kilworth camp counter, which is a good few miles south of Kilworth and is just as close to Fermoy as Mitchellstown is to it. It will be bypassed by the M8.
This counter was irrelevant, because the route I was comparing it to was the Mitchellstown to Cashel N8.:rolleyes: No harm in reflecting. nor is the Kilworth camp any relevance to the project you disscussing. It's hideous, as to how silly it is, you keep coming up with further points to say.

Now whatever bandwagon you want to start fire ahead, but you have dragged it to this point.

At least finally you accept that the N8 has a considerable amount of Commuter traffic:)


On a side note the N7 was to start back in 2002 orginally and meant to be finished in 2005, it looks like we will wait another few years.:(

Someone needs to WAKE YOU UP and see that the N7 is just as conjested and heavily trafficked, and is in need of Cullen opening ribbons along this route. as Atlone to Dublin is well underway. Next take is as Cork to Mitchellestown including bypass is nearly finshed. Carlow bypass got the go ahead.

smell the fresh cut grass.

mysterious

mfitzy wrote:

Bullsh1t- this route has been completely ignored for years, far from being pampered- fact.Funny this, less important roads like the N4 to Sligo (population approx 20,000) have seen major investment- and unlike Waterford/S Kilkenny doesn't have a major port and the associated HGV traffic.Not to mention Rosslare and New Ross ports nearby...
I'm no Cullen or FF fan but fair play to them and Seamas Brennan for prioritising this route, the worst N road in Ireland.

Very few towns??-No just, Waterford city, Kilkenny, Athy, Carlow and several others like Clonmel which will feed into the road when it's built.And a very long list of smaller towns on the route.

No traffic congestion eh? Try Carlow town every day of the week, or thomastown with it's 4m wide streets- I kid you not!
The only solution was a total 'green field' road- it would thus have been very foolish not to build this then to dual carriageway standard.

mfitzy wrote:

The figure of less than 5,000 vehicles per day conveniently excludes the N10 and N78; traffic from both of these will be redirected onto the new N9, as will much R700 traffic- add these and traffic volumes will easily equal the N8/7.

The R700 has nothing to do with the N9. This route carries traffic from Kilkenny to New Ross, sweet jesus that's like saying Ireland has 16 million people.lol.


Because you say so... right, don't twist what I said.

1.Athy is not on this route sir.
2.I pointed out it was 5,000 in most of it's sections from Paulstown to the N10 intersection.

3You want a dual carrigway because you have justification?

4. Rosslare is not used by this route, again stop exaggerating, it's getting a bit desparate. oh yes New Ross you mentioned. oh wait they use the N11. You're getting out of touch.

5. Yes Sligo is getting investment, it's not get a dual lane like Waterford, you were saying?

6. Waterford" is'nt" getting investment, hmm what about
M9 Kilcullen bypass
Timone and Moone?
Leignbridge bypass?
Now the Waterford bypass.
Carlow bypass sir.


I did mention that on another post(bet you will say that is bull****) that to from the M9 to south of Carlow justifies a dual lane road, and a few mile climb at the otherside of the N9 at Waterford. The rest does not. 2+1 is fine along most of it's length, I'm sure there are more congested routes that need attention on right now.

very few towns

yes Compared to N6/N7/N8 it has a lot smaller towns on it's route, now let's stick to the ROUTE, I said from Carlow onwards it's need of a dual road, man, its all twistable isn't... jeez

4m wide N road through Thomastown

Measure it and come back to me with the results, please don't exaggerate, it's not doing you any good.
Now get a grip:rolleyes:

If you want to challenge the points I made, make it known, I'm willing to hear it.

Maskhadov

so can someone say is this article a load of spin or will it really take until 2015 to have a dual carriagway/motorway to Cork ?

bryanw

I think it would be fair to say that it is spin from the Indo mill. They have no evidence to back their "shortfall of funds" or the delay of the road, nor do they give any reasons.

I seem to recall there being a €34 billion Transport investment programme ...hmmm, maybe ... not sure. I think at this stage they are just writing about what the want instead of writing about the news.

The country is a wash with money, how could there be a shortfall of funds, especially in an investment that has been so publisised recently.

road_high

mysterious wrote:

The R700 has nothing to do with the N9. This route carries traffic from Kilkenny to New Ross, sweet jesus that's like saying Ireland has 16 million people.lol.


Because you say so... right, don't twist what I said.

1.Athy is not on this route sir.
2.I pointed out it was 5,000 in most of it's sections from Paulstown to the N10 intersection.

3You want a dual carrigway because you have justification?

4. Rosslare is not used by this route, again stop exaggerating, it's getting a bit desparate. oh yes New Ross you mentioned. oh wait they use the N11. You're getting out of touch.

5. Yes Sligo is getting investment, it's not get a dual lane like Waterford, you were saying?

6. Waterford" is'nt" getting investment, hmm what about
M9 Kilcullen bypass
Timone and Moone?
Leignbridge bypass?
Now the Waterford bypass.
Carlow bypass sir.


I did mention that on another post(bet you will say that is bull****) that to from the M9 to south of Carlow justifies a dual lane road, and a few mile climb at the otherside of the N9 at Waterford. The rest does not. 2+1 is fine along most of it's length, I'm sure there are more congested routes that need attention on right now.
yes Compared to N6/N7/N8 it has a lot smaller towns on it's route, now let's stick to the ROUTE, I said from Carlow onwards it's need of a dual road, man, its all twistable isn't... jeez

Measure it and come back to me with the results, please don't exaggerate, it's not doing you any good.
Now get a grip:rolleyes:

If you want to challenge the points I made, make it known, I'm willing to hear it.

You're obviously not famaliar with the geography of the area - I live there and use these roads regularly so I think I have greater authority on the subject.
Athy IS on the planned N9- there will be a link road feeding onto the new road.
Leighlinbridge bypass- dates from the early '80's- hardly a recent addition is it now?

The R700- practically all traffic between Wexford/Rosslare/New Ross and Kilkenny will be diverted off onto the N9 dual-carriageway when it's built- aontother 3 or 4 thousand vehicles daily.This road as everything to do with the N9.
Same with N78 traffic- carries a lot of Kilkenny-Dublin traffic, will again be diverted on to the N9.
Therefore it is wholely inaccurate to single out one lightly trafficed stretch after Paulstown and parade it as an example of why this road shouldn't be built.You need to look at a combination of current rubbish roads in the region which will in future be replaced by the N9 for the most part.I know for a fact that Thomastown is just 4M wide- trucks and buses find it extremely difficult to pass here-it's a nightmare.

The facts are the current N9 road is dangerous, inadequate and substandard. A realignment upgrade would just not have been possible for the most part, with all the houses lining the route.
Therefore, greenfield was the only solution-it would have been very shortsighted to proceed with a mere two-lane greenfield road, when the cost involved wouldn't have been much more.

The N4 has seen continuous investment over the last 20 years, which is more than can be said for the N9. I was up the West last year and couldn't get over the quality of many stretches of the N roads- talk about political influence... For the first time in decades the s east actually has some clout in government and we're meant to feel somehow guilty for expressing it.

This region needs this road to prosper and re-establish itself after years of neglect. In all fairness it was regions like the s east in particular which kept the lights on in this country- even through the grim 1950s-1980s our agriculture and industry ( we had a small industrial base long before now pampered places like Galway, Sligo or Limerick), and always contributed strongly to the countries exchequer.

Aidan1

I'm not going to react to your opinions, and figures, since the NRA does not have counter's on the route WE are talking about right.

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about the N7 and N8? What other national roads are you talking about?

(btw, the route of the former N7 - R445 at Nenagh carried less than 5000 movements pd - is that 'substantial' traffic - where are the hidden volumes you speak of?)

that the N7 between Nenagh and Limerick M7 was torn down since 2003(just to breath this last line)

Torn down? Are we talking about demolition work, or the fact that there seems to be some slippage on the project?

The Nenagh to Limerick section was busier and more important at this time than the Cashel to Mitchellstown scheme

Finally, a point. And a critical one. Yes, the route carries more commuter traffic than the N8, great. But the N8 is still a more congested route because the roads are worse - hence the upgrade programme. And the N8 carries more national traffic, hence an additional higher priority. Its not like the N7 won't get its programme, it will, but it is rightly a lower priority than the N8. I know how bad traffic can be on the N7, I drove it a few weeks ago. But volume or movements pd only tell you part of the story, the N8 has some serious blockages down to geographical constraints that add at least an hour to journey times at rush hour. These can only ever be remedied by a new route, which is happening.

Its not a case of either or, its a case of both, and rightly so. But the prioritisation has to take place on a rational basis, and it seems that this is what has occurred

As for your assertion that I was highly selective when I picked the counters, I picked the ones closest. If you looked back along the thread, you'll see that I took as my baseline the counter at Cahir, the closest counter north of Mitchelstown on the N8 (and still 80k from Cork city), Nenagh is only 40k from Limerick.

At least finally you accept that the N8 has a considerable amount of Commuter traffic

Depends what you mean by 'considerable'. The N25 at Little Island, as I pointed out, carries twice the traffic as the N7 at Anacotty ... and nearly 90,000 commuters a day go through the toll bridge on the M50, over twice that again. In the short distance between Carrigtwohill and Little Island for example, over 14,000 movements pd are added. I don't think the 2,500 pd that either Fermoy and Mitchelstown add could be considered as 'considerable' in that light.

This is a circular argument kid, and going nowhere. Its obvious that you feel hard done by, and that 'your' road should have got the investment first. Its an emotive argument, and I understand that you must feel frustrated. But the investment is coming, and according to a fairly rational set of priorities. What more can you ask for?

nordydan

mfitzy wrote:

The N2 a higher priority than N9- I presume this is a pisstake or something, right??
Unlike many of the counties on the N2, those on the N9 are all net-contributors to the economy, with much higher populations and bigger centres of population.Derry (unfortunately) is not under our juristication (yet!) so it's up to the Brits to invest there.
Sure much of the N2 traffic can already divert onto the M1 into Co Louth.
I have no problem with investing in the N2, but to suggest it's more NB than the N9 is frankly ridiculous...

I fail to understand why people have such difficulty grasping the simple thrust of my argument. The north will be returned at some point in the near future. The A5 from emyvale/aughnacloy to strabane/lifford serves donegal as well. Why wait till the future to deprive the people of Donegal of much needed transport links? Its is clear that the brits are not going to invest substantial funds in this area. I am not saying it should be the no. 1 national priority, but surely worthy of at least some sort of contribution to get the brits going.

"Exactly! Not too many votes for Dail Eireann seats along the A5 however"

Yes well I have a vote for Westminster which I am sure makes you jealous, you treasonous collaborator! ;-)

road_high

nordydan wrote:

I fail to understand why people have such difficulty grasping the simple thrust of my argument. The north will be returned at some point in the near future. The A5 from emyvale/aughnacloy to strabane/lifford serves donegal as well. Why wait till the future to deprive the people of Donegal of much needed transport links? Its is clear that the brits are not going to invest substantial funds in this area. I am not saying it should be the no. 1 national priority, but surely worthy of at least some sort of contribution to get the brits going.

"Exactly! Not too many votes for Dail Eireann seats along the A5 however"

Yes well I have a vote for Westminster which I am sure makes you jealous, you treasonous collaborator! ;-)

I have no problem with it per say- I'm all in favour of good infrastructure anywhere in Ireland.
I would love to see Counties Fermanagh, Tyrone and Derry city rejoin the 26 counties rightfully, as these are clearly nationalist counties in the majority.But until this happens the taxpayer itself in the n orth will have to fund the A5 (hopefully N2 SOMEDAY!!!) improvements.
At present what scarce resources in the republic need to be pumped into the east and south of the country where the critical infrastructure is needed the most, and in all fairness where most of the tax revenues originate in the first place.