Lost faith in the Gardai (again)

Huggles

Right, Mods, apologies if this is in the wrong place, please move if you have to. Just want to get a general concensus on what action I should take. Thanks

I live in a small cul de sac and last night at 3am I was awoken by what sounded like amplifier feedback which then turned to heavy metal music. I look across the road, the house directly across the road has the front door open and about 30 eastern europens are standing, sitting in the garden, screaming over the music. A couple of them are pretty much shagging against the wall, more of them are falling all over the place drunk, one of them is sitting in his car with the radio up full blast and the engine running. It was unreal!

At this point I notice there next door neighbours coming out and are promptly told to Fuuck off. I get dressed and go over and I get the same, only they threatened my life also!

I called the local garda station which is a three minute walk and I am told they can't do anything as it is a civil matter. WTF!!!! I'm sorry last time I checked, drunk and disorderly, disturbing the peace and drinking on the street are all laws, no?

Just incase your all wondering if i am a crabby aul one with nothing better to do, I am 26, and believe me I have been to the odd party in my day, nothing like this though! Seems to me the Gaurds have to be all PC when dealing with immigrants.

The question is what do we do now? I won't be approaching them again and the Gardai where no help, I am disgusted, why am I paying taxes? :mad:

Bamboozled

Howya Goon,
I'm not surprised you had that reaction.
I've had to get onto the local Gardai because of constant parties similar to your situation in the apartment across from us. I got the same answer. Its a civil matter.

I found out that if it continued (they were kicked out eventually) we could go to the district court with a complaint. Bit extreme but your local council would be the ones to go to. I'll have a look for the stuff i got later and send it on to you.

Conar

Sounds like they should have done more.
Surely the fact that you were threatened is a crime even if none of the rest of the acts are deemed offences.
In future I would ask for their name and perhaps call back the next day and talk to one of their seniors.

Ruu_Old

Ask some of your neighbours to go down to the station with you, they might listen when you have a few people. Something should have been done in any case.

Huggles

Bamboozled wrote:

Howya Goon,
I'm not surprised you had that reaction.
I've had to get onto the local Gardai because of constant parties similar to your situation in the apartment across from us. I got the same answer. Its a civil matter.

I found out that if it continued (they were kicked out eventually) we could go to the district court with a complaint. Bit extreme but your local council would be the ones to go to. I'll have a look for the stuff i got later and send it on to you.

Hi Bam, thats great, thanks.

Black Swan

Sorry to hear of your problems. Like be glad that you do not live in a community dominated by university students. We have people who think they are DJs for the rest of us and blast their music so everyone can hear blocks away.

Huggles

Like I said, I didn't mind that there was a party, the music didn't even piss me off that much, it was too loud though and the orgy in the garden nearly made me puck, then to have some stoned/drunk thug telling me to **** off or he will kill me...nice.

I have lived here for 21 years and these assholes are here 5 minutes!! AGGHHH!

MunsterCycling

Ask the desk sargent for his Inspectors name and phone number, failing that contact the stations divional headquarters and make a racket, this type of behaviour is covered under anti-social behaviour and as such is the remit of An Garda Sugary Candies so telling you its a civil matter is bs and a cop out (sorry for that one). Who is the owner of this property? Have you rung them? Usually a phone call at some ungodly hour is pretty effective when it comes to removing unrulely tenents, do ye have a residents assoc? Also you can see if the property is registered with the PRTB as a rented property, nice big fine for the owner if its not but I didn't tell ya that

Just noted you are in Dublin? If they were drinking in the street (not the garden) then they were also commiting a offence under public drinking laws but these vary from local authority area to local authority area so its hard to know.

lostexpectation

a civil matter? sure how many of us have hard the gardai call round to a party?

I think had you got your neighbours to call the station also they might have done something(althoguht maybe they did), or walk to station if it was so nearby and led the gardai by the hand back to the party house.

ya know that program on the bbc, where they had council officers going round?
they didn't seem to be using scare tactics im not usre how effective they were, does Ireland have 24 noise pollution officers I doubt it.

KTRIC

When they are all fast asleep this morning after a heavy night of head-banging, drinking and shagging pour break fluid over their car. I find that this gets the message home that they aren't wanted in your neighbourhood.

JackKelly

or better, put a flaming lowercase t in the garden....

:rolleyes:

MunsterCycling

TimAy wrote:

or better, put a flaming lowercase t in the garden....

:rolleyes:

WHAT?

Nuttzz

Next time it happens ring the cops again, just add that you saw them put something that looked like a shotgun into the boot of a car, 15 minutes later you'll be sound asleep....

johnnyrotten

You said they threatened your life? I think thats more than a civil matter.
As the last poster said saying that you saw one of them with a weapon ( Knives are a particular favourite of the East Europeans ) they cops will come. Also keep ringing the cops every 2 mins.. they will eventually have to come

Ciaran500

MunsterCycling wrote:

WHAT?

Its from South Park when they want to get the rich black people out of their town.

TomTom

MunsterCycling wrote:

WHAT?

as in 'Time to leave'

I've having trouble with the neighbours and music also. For the last two months they have been having parties and playing music very loud but we did not pay attention to it as we like to have parties also (only onece every few months) but in the past two weeks I had to go down twice as there is a girl studying for exams and the other night she called me in to ask would I say something to them as the music was so loud stuff was starting to vibrate off her locker.

I banged the floor a few times and the music got louder so I got dressed and went down. The gas this is they imidiatly had a go at me for banging on the floor and being passive agressive (wtf). some drunk blond chick and a string of piss behing her having a go at me over their loud music. Since it was the second time I'm going to the landlord. Oh and they also have the shared garage full of bin bags and the place ****ing stinks.

franksm

yeah - if they're renting, find out who the landlord is and take it up with him/her. Mention that the cops have been involved.

Or better still, call the confidential crimeline and say that you know prostitution and drugs have been going on at that address

Owen

Or, play their game. I've an nice 4000 watt PA system that should break windows if you want :-)

To be fair, an orgy in the garden with hot eastern european girls doesn't sound like the worst though! (I have an extremely active imagination)

Winters

TimAy wrote:

or better, put a flaming lowercase t in the garden....

Anyway, you should have taken some pictures or a video of it and then sent them into all the red banner rags saying that the Gardai refused to stop this total breach fof the peace etc. etc. They would have had a field day with it.

Maybe even throw a letter to the editor at the Irish Times etc. As it is it sounds like a clear breach of the peace/public order offensive and I know I have been given a little warning for doing stuff like that in the past. Also, threatening your life like that (in a serious manner) I thought was illegal in some way?

*shrugs*

Best thing to do is give it to the red banner papers nand let them have a field day. I think they hate them immigrants more then anyone else.

AngryAnderson

If it happens again, explain to whatever jackass cop answers the phone that you were in touch with your solicitor since the last time it happened and that you would like to know the Garda's name. Then explain that, according to your solicitor, this is far from a 'civil matter' (I have a picture in my head of Father Jack sitting there with a phone in his hand "THIS IS AN ECUMENICAL MATTER. FECK"). Explain to the sh1thead that if he doesn't do his job you'll be seeking executive legal advice the next day.

Jesus... imagine having to threaten the police to do their jobs when WE'RE the ones who pay their damn salaries. :rolleyes:

rondeco

AngryAnderson wrote:

If it happens again, explain to whatever jackass cop answers the phone that you were in touch with your solicitor since the last time it happened and that you would like to know the Garda's name. Then explain that, according to your solicitor, this is far from a 'civil matter' (I have a picture in my head of Father Jack sitting there with a phone in his hand "THIS IS AN ECUMENICAL MATTER. FECK"). Explain to the sh1thead that if he doesn't do his job you'll be seeking executive legal advice the next day.

Jesus... imagine having to threaten the police to do their jobs when WE'RE the ones who pay their damn salaries. :rolleyes:

You are so right. The guards haven't done a tap since day one.. blah blah blah blah blah.

they are all 'sh1theads'. You forgot to say they are all fat. And ugly and less brain matter than a handicapped goldfish..

With regards to the o.p. loud music is covered under the environmental act with regards to noise pollution. The gardai are not entilted to commence prosecutions under this act. The people who are in the garden cannot be accosted in anyway as they are on private property and so the public order act has no application here unless there is some sort of riot or affray. The people who were on the streets shoud have been dealt with by the gardai but as for the guy who was in his car, little can be done unless he goes to drive it. Hope that helps.

bounty

why didnt you record a video of this party?

otherwise people think your exagerating

Cuddlesworth

Winters wrote:

<Anyway, you should have taken some pictures or a video of it and then sent them into all the red banner rags saying that the Gardai refused to stop this total breach fof the peace etc. etc. They would have had a field day with it.

Best peice of advice on this thread, then wait for a politicion to jump on the idea and your neibhours will be un-able to have any partys for love nor money.

AngryAnderson

rondeco wrote:

You are so right. The guards haven't done a tap since day one.. blah blah blah blah blah.

they are all 'sh1theads'. You forgot to say they are all fat. And ugly and less brain matter than a handicapped goldfish..

I was actually referring to the lazy ones who don't do their jobs properly and couldn't care less. If you can point out where I made a sweeping generalisation of all Gardaí then do so. Other I'll accept your apology.

The bottom line is that, in many cases, the Gardaí simply won't do their jobs and stand up for you so have to stand up to them. A lot of the time, unfortunately, you nearly have to pay a solicitor in order to motivate the police enough to get up off their asses. It's a fact. If you don't agree, you're wrong.

Winters

krazy_8s wrote:

wait for a politicion to jump on the idea and your neibhours will be un-able to have any partys for love nor money.

Most people in Dublin probably dont know and have never seen their local politicion tbh. Well, you only see them at around election time.

Really though, most parties dont go that overboard that your sitting outside with a car blasting music out at 3am. So ... *shrugs*

Slippin Jimmy

Look people in all fairness if we didn't have the police force that we have know, you wouldn't get asleep at night. They do a good job most of the time. The problem is that they are under staffed. The don't have the resources. I was reading in the paper a couple of weeks back about some guards being called to a fight outside some pub in the country. I think that it was travellers that were fighting. Anyway the two guards that were dispatched both got their jaws broken and got some other injurys aswell.

faceman

Domestic noise polution is a big problem in this country, and its not taken serious enough. Given the poor quality sound proofing in new houses its a problem thats not going to go away.

If enough people complain to their TD's etc about unruly behaviour in this respect then the pressure hopefully will force a change. Take the UK for example, as someone mentioned already, they have council people dedicated to noise pollution monitoring and issues.

lostexpectation

rondeco wrote:

With regards to the o.p. loud music is covered under the environmental act with regards to noise pollution. The gardai are not entilted to commence prosecutions under this act. The people who are in the garden cannot be accosted in anyway as they are on private property and so the public order act has no application here unless there is some sort of riot or affray. The people who were on the streets shoud have been dealt with by the gardai but as for the guy who was in his car, little can be done unless he goes to drive it. Hope that helps.

actually that quite unhelpful, as it does not address what he needs to do about the excessivly loud parties.The job has been the polices up to now and it remain so up until we do have 24hr noise pollution officers.

lodgepole

lostexpectation wrote:

actually that quite unhelpful, as it does not address what he needs to do about the excessivly loud parties.The job has been the polices up to now and it remain so up until we do have 24hr noise pollution officers.

As the previous post points out the job has not been the polices up until now, although they may have been doing it anyway.

As for people who think you should tell the police you saw weapons/suspect prostitution/drug dealing... Cop yourselves on. People making bull**** claims about neighbours isn't going to go too far in improving our police force.

Record it the next time it happens and bring it to either your solicitor, their landloard or both.

rondeco

lostexpectation wrote:

actually that quite unhelpful, as it does not address what he needs to do about the excessivly loud parties.The job has been the polices up to now and it remain so up until we do have 24hr noise pollution officers.

No, it hasn't. The police can only use the powers they are given. It does not come under their remit. It is not a criminal offence to have a loud party. So actually, it is quite helpful. How has it been the gardai's job? We have legislation to deal with noise pollution. Generally, the local authority prosecutes under this act or a member of the public. so where has it been unhelpful?

lostexpectation

rondeco wrote:

No, it hasn't. The police can only use the powers they are given. It does not come under their remit. It is not a criminal offence to have a loud party. So actually, it is quite helpful. How has it been the gardai's job? We have legislation to deal with noise pollution. Generally, the local authority prosecutes under this act or a member of the public. so where has it been unhelpful?

who do people call to come out when theres a particularily loud party in ireland?

It might not be suspposed to be the polices job but that doens't hcange the fact they have always been called for these sort of things.

do the council have people at their offices 24hrs day and night?

rondeco

You'll actually find that when you call to complain about a noisy party, you will be told that the best that they can do is ask them to turn down the volume. If they refuse, nothing will be done. The busier stations will more than likely not send any one to these calls as it is a waste of resources.

In order for someone to be prosecuted for noise pollution, it must be a recurring or regular event. Actually, here it is for you made easy. I haven't read it all but tell me where it says 'call the guards'.

Noise Pollution
This page outlines the steps open to you under the law where you are experiencing nuisance caused by noise. It is intended as a practical guide and is not a legal interpretation of the law. Noise pollution is administered by Louth County Council for the County including Drogheda and Dundalk.

Has the procedure for dealing with complaints about noise been simplified?
Yes, The Minister for Environment Protection made Regulations in July 1994 to make it easier to bring complaints about noise to the District Court.

Are exceptions made for any types of noise?
Yes, Complaints about aircraft noise are specifically excepted and such complaints should be directed to the airport authority in question or to the Department of Transport, Energy and Communications.

When can I take legal action to deal with noise as a nuisance?
Whenever you consider a noise to be so loud, so continuous, so repeated, of such duration or pitch or occurring at such times that it gives you reasonable cause for annoyance you can initiate action to deal with it.

What action can I take?
Initially, it may be sufficient to explain to whomever is causing the noise that it is a nuisance and so come to some mutually acceptable understanding.

Where, for whatever reason, such an approach is not successful you can consider exercising your right to complain to the District Court to seek an Order to deal with the nuisance.

Will the District Court solve my problem?
The task of the District Court is to hear both sides of the case. Where it finds in your favour it can order the person or body making the noise to reduce it to a specific level, to limit it, e.g. to specified times, or to stop it altogether.

Are there any legal conditions which I need to take into consideration before I decide to complain to the District Court?
Yes, the legislation specifies certain conditions that amount to a good defence in Court for the person allegedly causing the nuisance.

What are the "good defence" conditions?
The person concerned may prove

that he/she took all reasonable care to prevent or limit the noise by using facilities, practices and methods of operation that are suitable for that purpose, or
that the noise is in accordance with a licence issued under the Environmental Protection Agency Act or with Regulations made by the Minister under the Act.

Must the Court Order be complied with?
Yes, the person (or body) concerned must comply with the Court Order.

How do I complain to the District Court?
consult with the Clerk of your local District Court about an appointment for the hearing of your case. This appointment must e at least seven days later than the date on which you inform the person responsible for the noise nuisance that you will be taking your case to the Court.
once a time has been set for your Court hearing you must inform the person concerned that you will be making a complaint to the Court.
You must use a particular form of notice in informing the person concerned. This has been specified in the Regulations and can be downloaded below. It is important that you use this form of notice only and that you complete it fully and accurately. You will see from the specimen notice that the date of your complaint to the Court must be at least 7 days after the date of the notice.
You attend Court at the arranged time and present your complaint.
Once you have decided to take your case to the Court there are a number of steps which you must follow

Must I consult a solicitor if I wish to complain to the Court?
No, nor is there a requirement to be represented in Court by one. However, if you wish, you may engage a solicitor to prepare the complaint and/or to present it in Court.

Has the Environmental Protection Agency a role in dealing with noise problems?
Yes, the Agency has the same powers as an individual to complain about noise nuisance to the District Court. In addition, in the case of an activity for which a licence is required under the Environmental Protection Agency Act, the Agency can require the taking of specified measures to prevent or limit the noise. The person (or body) required to take such measures must do so or face prosecution. Alternatively, the Agency may take the remedial measures itself and recover the cost from the person in charge of the source of the noise.

Has my local authority a role in dealing with noise problems?
Yes. Local Authorities have the same powers as individuals to complain about noise problems to the District Court. In addition, they have similar powers to the Environmental Protection Agency in relation to premises, processes and works other than those which require licences under the Environmental Protection Agency Act.

Can I approach the Environmental Protection Agency or my Local Authority about noise problems?
Yes. The Environmental Protection Agency has power to require measures to be taken to prevent or limit noise from activities which are licensable by the Agency. In other cases local authorities have similar powers. A citizen may request the Agency or the Local Authority, as the case may be, to exercise its power in relation to noise causing a nuisance.

What are the penalties for a breach of the law?
A fine of up to €1270 or imprisonment for up to 12 months or both.

Are there specified noise standards, such as maximum levels in certain locations?
Not at present but the necessary work to do so is under way. Priority will be given to standards for residential, commercial and industrial areas, schools and hospitals.

Environmental Protection Agency Act, 1992

lostexpectation

so you admit that police do come out to parties on regular basis and ask for the noise to be reduced.

wheres is the step in between having a word yourself and going to the district court, where is that step at 2 o'clock in the morning.

rondeco

lostexpectation wrote:

so you admit that police do come out to parties on regular basis and ask for the noise to be reduced.

wheres is the step in between having a word yourself and going to the district court, where is that step at 2 o'clock in the morning.

you really are a wum. Check e-bay for the 'magic noise reduction wand.' Its meant to work best after dark.

Bamboozled

rondeco gave all the info above that I was told find by the Gardai.

I believe the Gardai used come out at night to parties, usually when it was a long standing member of the community that has made the complaint. (21 years should do though Goon! - any chance a parent might do it next time?)

Because of getting busier and busier I believe that they will now only come out if there is a threat of physical harm (which they should have come out to your neighbours).

Check to see if the property is registered on the PTRB site and get the landlords contact details.

Other than that, its the District Court.

Huggles

krazy_8s wrote:

Best peice of advice on this thread, then wait for a politicion to jump on the idea and your neibhours will be un-able to have any partys for love nor money.

Good advice yes, but as I said it was early morning and I was pissed off and to film it I'd have had to stand there with my mobile in Mr. Uber Threatenings face, not something I wanted to do.

Earlier today there was a bit of a row between them and their immediate next door neighbour who have a 6 month old baby. Apparently they said that they can do what they like as the pay rent ect. The neighbour got the landlord details and bollocked him out of it. I got details too and will be doing the same!!!

lodgepole

lostexpectation wrote:

so you admit that police do come out to parties on regular basis and ask for the noise to be reduced.

wheres is the step in between having a word yourself and going to the district court, where is that step at 2 o'clock in the morning.

There is none, that is the point. Maybe there should be, but there isn't and until then there isn't a thing the police can do about it. It's not their fault that they haven't got the power to do what you want them to do.

Bamboozled

Since you have already approached the party involved in the party ( ) to take it further you would have to go to your local authority.

As there was a threat against physical harm, the Gardai should have at least have taken you seriously.

Talk to the landlord as you now have contact details.

If nothing is done and there are other parties, see here for what to do.

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/environment/noise_regulations.html

eamoss

The Gardai r a joke. Few months ago me & one of my mates (both 18 & dont look like scumbags more spice boyish type of style) were talking outside a house and they pulled up asked us what we were doin & told us to go home. Now the estate is a private mostly old people and we werent making any noise & we where standing there about 5mins. I taught it was a bit ironic that my mates father was the superintend of that area up until last year wer he was promoted to chief superintend.

JP Mulvano

You could always kill the power to their place from the circuit breaker?

Unfotunately only really works in an apartment block. I always find the lack of electricity soon puts a dampener on things.

If it continues why not pull their NTL, phone and gas as well. Back to the dark ages with you inconsiderate twats!!!

Bamboozled

JP Mulvano wrote:

Unfotunately only really works in an apartment block. I always find the lack of electricity soon puts a dampener on things

Depending on how old the house is the box could be inside. But if its a newer house, gas and ESB are outside

Not a bad idea though

Huggles

Good idea but the boxes are inside LOL Knowing my luck I would only blow myself up too!

Just out of interest, is it illegal to run a business from a house without being registered etc? I am pretty sure they are 'catering' I say catering but I actually think its some way more sinister though.

One of them is always going back and forth to the airport and going home I assume, they all congregate when she gets back and they all head out of the houses with packages soon after!!!!

i know what I'd love it to be but its probably legit :mad: