Switching to linux

Khannie

This one actually doesn't belong in the unix forum.

I have a question for the masses. A bit of background first.

I (finally) recently made the switch to linux from windows. It took a while, but I've settled in now. I now have no windows partition any more, and I have no plans to have one in the future. Even as someone who's comfortable at the command line, it took me a lot of balls to not have a windows partition. UT2004 runs just as well under linux for me though, etc. etc.

So...here's the question:

If you had a group of people willing to help you out with the little things, on IRC, a forum on here, etc....Would you be willing to make the switch to linux?

irlrobins

No. When I got my latest PC I decided the HD was large enough to have a dual boot system. Went with Redhat and spent a bit of time researching it and how to get it to dual boot with XP, etc.

Enjoyed the challenge of getting it up and running, configuring it, etc. But what put me off and eventually forced me to remove the redhat partition was the how the simplest of tasks in windows turned into a long convoluted process in linux.

Installing video drivers, getting DVD's to play. drivers for wireless card, etc. All took many attempts and recompliles of kernel etc. The final straw was when I moved the sound card from one PCI slot to another to give my video card more room to breathe and then Redhat wouldn't even boot.

There was plenty of support out there, some good forums where I got lots of help. But sometimes I found a some of the help out there was not very noob friendly. Linux users can be a bit elitist sometimes.

So I gave it a shot, but at the end of the day, beyond getting some insight into linux, it didn't provide me with anything I couldn't do in Windows. Just wasn't for me.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Personally I don't see the point.
I already have an OS that does exactly what I want it to do.
I've dabbled in Linux a few times over the years and have always come to the same conclusion... why should I spend hours reading how-to's and tinkering around trying to get this or that working, when I already have an OS that I know how to configure and that already works.
Right now I can't see any advantage to switching to linux that would justify the time I'd have to spend getting to grips with it.
Added to that, I'd be practically losing hardware due to a lack of driver support for a few of my more obscure devices.
Having said that, Linux will always be something I install once a year out of curiosity... though I've yet to be not dissapointed.

Yook

I run both a linux box (my server) and my gaming box separately. The only think that doesn't have me on linux all the time is Directx. Damn you Microsoft, damn you!

maidhc

I'm a bit like the DonkeyStyle (good name!) on this. I have installed it every year since about 1998, but never made the move. Sadly less of my hardware is supported now than was in 1998 when everything worked fine except my scanner.

Although I have a legal rather than computer education I am pretty OK at computers. I can write php pretty good, have no trouble building pretty OK dynamic websites, and can build a computer blindfolded. However I draw a blank at having to recompile the drivers for my graphics card, especially when it is one which should work with everything (FX5200!).

I will try making the move to linux again later in the summer once I submit my thesis and get other jobs done with, as I can see the way windows is going and I don't like it.

A forum of some description could only be of assistance in helping people like myself persevere!

Sam Vimes

irlrobins wrote:

No. When I got my latest PC I decided the HD was large enough to have a dual boot system. Went with Redhat and spent a bit of time researching it and how to get it to dual boot with XP, etc.

Enjoyed the challenge of getting it up and running, configuring it, etc. But what put me off and eventually forced me to remove the redhat partition was the how the simplest of tasks in windows turned into a long convoluted process in linux.

Installing video drivers, getting DVD's to play. drivers for wireless card, etc. All took many attempts and recompliles of kernel etc. The final straw was when I moved the sound card from one PCI slot to another to give my video card more room to breathe and then Redhat wouldn't even boot.

There was plenty of support out there, some good forums where I got lots of help. But sometimes I found a some of the help out there was not very noob friendly. Linux users can be a bit elitist sometimes.

So I gave it a shot, but at the end of the day, beyond getting some insight into linux, it didn't provide me with anything I couldn't do in Windows. Just wasn't for me.

exactly the same as me. i installed ubuntu and gave it a fair go but after a week it was a choice between uninstall linux or throwing the computer out the window in frustration

now i really appreciate the simplicity of: open, next, next, next finish, use

exactiv

I agree. I started using computers before DOS was MS DOS so I'm fairly used to the command line. I've given Redhat Fedora Core, FreeBSD & SuSe a lash a few times and just given up after a week or two. Simple things just aren't simple with linux. HTML aside, I don't know how to code and I have no interest in learning, and it seems without this you can't use linux.

A forum or IRC would help, but at the end of the day, it's just not easy enough. I'm sure if you know how to use it it's a fantastic platform and it's secure, stable etc etc. But linux is stuck in 1995 when you had to figure the stupid stuff out yourself. Times have changed and linux hasn't.

now i really appreciate the simplicity of: open, next, next, next finish, use

My point exactly.

Khannie

One of the things that I've found (moreso lately than ever before) is that things that used to be a pain in the hole, are now very simple. Installing graphics drivers is a single click with synaptic / apt-get. As are most other things. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that installing software is actually easier on linux than on windows now. :eek:

Edit: I'm using ubuntu 5.10 now. I expect 6.06 (out on Thursday) to be even more user-friendly.

2nd Edit: I have to say that I've been in the same boat as everyone else here before. Just found it a pain in the hole to get anything achieved. I am honestly starting to think though, that linux as a desktop platform is finally coming of age.

exactiv

Khannie wrote:

Installing graphics drivers is a single click with synaptic / apt-get. As are most other things. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that installing software is actually easier on linux than on windows now. :eek:

Well, after reading that I'm gonna give it another lash! So, where is this forum / IRC channel?

How big is ubuntu to download?

irlrobins

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=32

irlrobins

Thought this might be a bit apt....

zilog_jones

What, you find that easier than typing *one* single command line?

I first tried Linux, also starting with Red Hat, but I was on dial-up, and knew no one else with it, so got nowhere. I later discovered that Red Hat is probably *the worst* place to start off with Linux - it's really designed for serving and not really anything user-friendly.

Then I discovered Debian and Ubuntu, with a hell of a lot of help from the computer society in UL. Ubuntu was comparatively piss-easy to set up, it is a hell of a lot more user-friendly than Red Hat, and it just makes more sense and appears less "bloaty" than Madrake. The Apt repository system for installing software is truly magical, and even installing non-free software like Opera, Java RE, VMware and Flash wasn't too painful. Also community support is fantastic - the official wiki and forums are extremely helpful.

Last near I knew barely anything about Linux - now at work I'm the only person using it, and I turned a disused old server into a intranet website server and a proxy server with remote ease.

From an OS point-of-view, it just makes so much more sense - the way things are set up, the way (nearly) all configuration files are in the one place (/etc), the way the start menu equivalent is actually organised by the OS, and so on.

Though it's not without its problems either. There's still some software (especially games) that I can only use in Windows, there's that whole WLAN driver thing (I never got that fookin NDIS wrapper thing to work so just gave up), I also never got my capture card working (though most the video editing software I use isn't available on Linux anyway), and the lack of full NTFS support is still a pain (but that's MS's fault for not releasing the specs). Oh, and OpenOffice is significantly slower than MS Office (but that's Sun's fault).

But you can't expect there not to be a learning curve when changing to a totally different OS.

And you *have* to take into account that distro's like Ubuntu are releasing their distro on a completely open-source license, so you cannot expect proprietary/licensed things like MP3 decoders and DVD playback to come with them. If you want it to be well supported and FREE, compromises like that cannot be avoided.

It's the industry's fault for relying on such proprietary/licensed formats. Yeah I know that's hippy talk, but it's the truth.

exactiv

thanks irlrobins. that cartoon is excellent as well

Tom Dunne

Khannie wrote:

If you had a group of people willing to help you out with the little things, on IRC, a forum on here, etc....Would you be willing to make the switch to linux?

In short, no.

I would consider myself a techie, but as others have said, tasks that are straight forward in Windoze are quite involved in Linux.

I am surprised to learn that others here do exactly what I do - install Linux every year or so, admire how well it is coming on, but switch back to Windoze.

There was a time when I was willing to put in the time to get things working on Linux, but maybe I'm getting old, I don't know, but I just couldn't be arsed any more.

Yes, Linux is maturing - for simple e-mail, word processing and basic tasks. For anything more, as much as it kills me to say, Windoze is the best tool for the job.

exactiv

zilog_jones wrote:

Though it's not without its problems either. There's still some software (especially games) that I can only use in Windows, there's that whole WLAN driver thing (I never got that fookin NDIS wrapper thing to work so just gave up), I also never got my capture card working (though most the video editing software I use isn't available on Linux anyway), and the lack of full NTFS support is still a pain (but that's MS's fault for not releasing the specs).

So, what you're saying is:
- You can't play games
- You can't edit video
- You can't use WiFi
- You can't use an NTFS disk

Why would I limit the use of my computer with linux?

zilog_jones

- I can play *some* games, but that doesn't bother me. I find Linux so much more useful for desktop stuff and work - if I want to play a game I'd just boot Windows.
- I haven't really tried editing video on Linux tbh, and as long as AviSynth isn't on Linux I'm not going to bother. But that should change soon.
- I can use WiFi if I got an adaptor that had Linux drivers, of which there are many now. Thing is I got some crappy USB thing free with my router - the chipset is supported in Linux (it would have worked straight away in Ubuntu), *but* only on PCI cards, not USB!
- Linux can read NTFS fine - it just can't write to it much. But the sole reason I need to access an NTFS partition is to listen to my MP3s - if I just put them on an ext3 partition (and got windows software for reading ext3) there wouldn't be a problem. But I'm lazy. NTFS is far from an optimal file system, and I wish I didn't have to use it at all.

So yes, for doing those four things fully I have to use Windows, but for nearly everything else I can use Linux.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Khannie wrote:

I am honestly starting to think though, that linux as a desktop platform is finally coming of age.

lol, that's what I think every time I go to install a distro after having read all about its ease of use from its respective website.
Even trying out (supposedly) very simple-to-use distros of linux, like mandrake and winlinux, it always boils down to quitting the GUI, abandoning the 'Lizards' and farting around in the console while trying to figure out which of the ten thousand text editors I should use to edit some config file.
While nice in theory, I've found these attempts to simplify things generally fall flat on their arse... I'm resigned to the fact that I'll need to sit down and learn linux inside-out before I can configure it to a level where it's usefull to me.
Now BeOS on the other hand... amazingly worked right off the bat.

And why does everything in Linux have a stupid name?
An example I just made up... 'Kgnaobiahn - a cd writer for linux!'
So many daft package names, as if it wasn't already confusing enough.

And yes, I intend to put myself through yet more linux torture some time in the coming months.

exactiv

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

An example I just made up... 'Kgnaobiahn - a cd writer for linux!'

ha ha ha ha...I nearly fell of my chair when I read that....

zilog_jones

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

like mandrake and winlinux, it always boils down to quitting the GUI, abandoning the 'Lizards' and farting around in the console while trying to figure out which of the ten thousand text editors I should use to edit some config file.

Try some Debian-based distro like Ubuntu - I found it so much easier to use than Mandrake it wasn't funny. And learn how to use vim - saved my ass many a time

Blowfish

Khannie wrote:

If you had a group of people willing to help you out with the little things, on IRC, a forum on here, etc....Would you be willing to make the switch to linux?

I pretty much have switched. I use Windows for games and thats it. I find that if I actually want to do anything that could be constituted as work, Linux is better.

I'd be more than willing to help people who are switching, and there are people in the unix forum who definitely know their stuff.

Stephen

I'm like many of the above. I install various flavours of linux from time to time, admire the pretty wallpaper, tinker with it for a while and then just abandon it. I still have ubuntu installed on my PC as a dual boot with windows XP, but I haven't booted into ubuntu in about 2 months. Same deal with my laptop, where its got XP and Suse 10. Suse 10 was actually pretty good, supporting all of the laptop's hardware and power saving features from the get-go - including WPA support without spending hours f**king about with the command line and wpasupplicant.

Omnipresence

Same here happy to help...

I use Windows for Music Production (So software dictated - Cubase/Reason/Ableton/Native Instruments)

And Linux for everything else... I actually use Fedora Core and Yum Updater it serves me very well.. all the media issues are resolved by simply using MPlayer and the windows librarys....

Still don't think linux is there yet though, I'm a full time programmer and its fine for me to go messing with compiling kernels and stuff but until they really get rid of this for end users forget it...

I mean take the NVidia drivers... if normal user is not careful things can still blow up if they upgrade the kernel and forget to recompile the drivers (why should anyone who isnt a programmer know or care about this etc)

-A

BigEejit

And I am yet another Windows user that has a look at various linux distros now and again and gets frustrated and formats the partition after a couple of weeks

I am going to have another go in the next few weeks .... knoppmythR5C7 this time as I find my near silent HTPC is creaking trying to run MCE2k5 ... have to check for supported hybrid DVB-T adapters that are supported (and check if my Twinhan DVB-T MiniTer is supported)

<edit>
Actually, I remember now what really used to do my head in ... you would read that whatever piece of hardware you have was supported but find out later that you have to modify x number of config files manually and try this and that and if it is not working or not to your satisfaction you had to modify some or all of config files again ... and so you find yourself in unknown territory because if you cant get it working - usually no help from manufacturers and no help on forums as they say "modify x number of config files manually" ... so a board that works immediately in Windows represents several fruitless hours in linux

Gandalf23

I am a fairly regular Linux user too.

I started off messing with live cd/dvd's just to see if all my hardware worked and if I could survive in a "windowless" envirnoment. I was amazed to see that I could... and I was in college at the time where I had to detect wireless networks, email back and forward various material in various formats to lecturers/classmates, and lots of other stuff I thought I would have problems with.

I really dont think the "technical" issues explain why Linux has such a small user base. People (like some posters above) just dont have the time to spend configuring a new OS. It also scares non-techies imho.

Linux will really take off when you can walk into a computer store (or order from Dell) and buy a new laptop with Linux preinstalled and guaranteed to work with a minimum of techie configuration.

Khannie

irlrobins wrote:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=32

:rolleyes: I stated in the original post why I didn't put this in the unix forum. I moderate the forum, and I started the thread, so your little copy and paste of a link to the unix forum is little more than rude.

irlrobins

Khannie wrote:

:rolleyes: I stated in the original post why I didn't put this in the unix forum. I moderate the forum, and I started the thread, so your little copy and paste of a link to the unix forum is little more than rude.

mmmm that was in response to exactiv asking where the unix forum was. It was not an indication to move it to unix forum. I'd use the report post function button for that.

Khannie

exactiv wrote:

Well, after reading that I'm gonna give it another lash! So, where is this forum / IRC channel?

How big is ubuntu to download?

It doesn't exist yet. Edit (the unix forum does....but I was thinking more of a "dedicated switching line")
I was just thinking though, that I'd be willing to help people, and that you could create a kind of "switch from windows" help group.

Ubuntu fits on one cd. I'd suggest waiting for the next release (6.06) later this week.

You do have to download some extras, but synaptic makes that very straightforward.

Khannie

irlrobins wrote:

mmmm that was in response to exactiv asking where the unix forum was. It was not an indication to move it to unix forum. I'd use the report post function button for that.

LOL.

/me stops jumping to conclusions.

exactiv

when you say some extras... like what? I remember needing some RPM for some program to detect wireless networks on Fedora. It took me ages to even figure out how to do something with the RPM and when I did manage to (extract, install, run (delete as nessacary) ) I couldn't figure out how to execute the program.
Feck it, I don't think I could be bothered to be honest. I might do up some sort of a fileserver at some stage, but not gonna be using it as a desktop til it's very very very simple. Not cos I'm unable, just cos I can't be bothered.

red_ice

Khannie wrote:

If you had a group of people willing to help you out with the little things, on IRC, a forum on here, etc....Would you be willing to make the switch to linux?

sign me up! If this goes ahead, please pm me the details, my mate knows a bit about linux and would be interested in it aswell.

i made a half arsed switch, i got a loan of a server off of a friend(its laptop size... same friend), which i installed ubuntu 5.10 on. Its running grand having fun getting lost doing the simplest of things... which never work lol. Im still trying to get file sharing working with samba server! The goal is to have that server running ubuntu up in the attic, network the whole house, and use it as a file server with remote access from any windows machine downstares in the house.

I've got irc running, and have msn intergrated into irc aswell(all messages irc/msn come up in irc - its great!). I play Counterstrike:Source alot, and i've found tuts on how to get it running and so on... Gonna give it a go on my 3500+ in a week or two. I get 200fps in windows, I cant wait to see how ubuntu handles it!

I dont think i will ever make a total switch from windows, as everything that im 'certified' to do was windows based, and i like having the control over windows that i do now, i could never give that up to start again with linux - i'd have to take it piece by piece.

MrPinK

exactiv wrote:

when you say some extras... like what? I remember needing some RPM for some program to detect wireless networks on Fedora. It took me ages to even figure out how to do something with the RPM and when I did manage to (extract, install, run (delete as nessacary) ) I couldn't figure out how to execute the program.

Yeah, that's something that put me off linux when I first tried Red Hat. It wasn't until I tried Debian and discovered the joys of apt did I really start to get into using linux. With Debian based linuxes like Ubuntu (which I've switched to now) you don't have to download, extract and install. In fact, it's even easier than in windows. You just tell it the name of the program to get and it downloads it and installs it automatically. If there are additional libraries that the program needs, it gets them too.

One thing that annoys me in windows is that a lot of programs these days will start giving me popup messages whenever they're run, telling me that a newer version is available and that I need to go an download it. With Ubuntu though, I can update every single application I have installed with a single command.

Alas though, DirectX is the ball and chain that keeps my windows partition in existance. Lately I've been playing a lot of old games in linux using DOSBox, but as soon as I get something new (probably Res4 next) I'll be back to using windows most of the time

astrofool

I think Linux works in such a fundamentally different way to Windows, that with the education side of things all being Windows based, people just aren't going to switch over, even though it might be "better". I'd put it more akin to getting someone to switch to a different/"better" keyboard layout, most just won't stick it.

It's a shame that Linux is still at the stage of almost being ready for switching over to from Windows, its been that way since XP was released, and now near the end of XP its still the same. Maybe if I was doing some dev work that was much easier/faster to use in Linux, then i'd switch, but for every day tasks, Windows does everything, and gets much more frequent driver updates helping performance (i'd class myself as being obsessive/compulsive about those things, even if the difference between versions is support for left handed sedgewicks which I don't have anyway ), the days where having an OS that utilised better resources is over, as any machine these days runs any OS with little effort.

When we were testing AMD64 though, Suse was far better running/supported than XP x64 at the time, so it does have its uses, just not mainstream imo.

RedPlanet

I've looked at Ubuntu alright.
The biggest argument againt Windows is all the bloody licensing.
But with Ubuntu sure it couldn't even play an mp3 outa the box so i was like, forgettabout it.

exactiv

what licensing?

MrPinK

RedPlanet wrote:

But with Ubuntu sure it couldn't even play an mp3 outa the box so i was like, forgettabout it.

It's hardly a big problem. It takes two minutes to fix, and the starter guide shows you exactly how to do it.

Or EasyUbuntu will sort all these things out for you (proprietary audio/video codecs, DVD support, skpe, etc) all in one go.

Khannie

It's an issue (the mp3 thing), though a minor one. My own reason for switching was that I didn't want to pay licencing fees for my OS. Also, the only game I play is UT2004 (which runs natively on linux), and the nVidia drivers are now very close to the performance of the windows ones.

Most things that I already use are also natively supported in linux, and I'm now getting more used to it than windows (last time I actually used windows outside the home was about 2 months ago).

Anyway....looks like there aren't very many interested in giving it a go. The idea was that I'd help some people to switch, and some percentage of those that I'd helped would help others, and so you'd create a chain.

It's definitely not for everyone though. I've been doing the once a year thing for many many years myself....picking up nuggets as I went, and I've only just done the full switch.

B00MSTICK

Im dual booting XP and Mandriva 06, prefer mandriva's interface and im not too scared of the commandline but for some reason I can only get CSS to run in Wine in a ~ 512x384 square and at maybe 80 fps. Runs on windows at ~ 170-200, I like my games so its pretty much a no go atm. The drivers are improving alot so hopefully its just a matter of time.

mp3guy

exactiv wrote:

- You can't play games
- You can't edit video
- You can't use WiFi
- You can't use an NTFS disk

Why would I limit the use of my computer with linux?

Here, I fixed the few errors in your post;

exactiv wrote:

- You can't play all games
- You can't edit all video
- You can use most WiFi
- You can use an NTFS disk

Why would I limit the use of my computer with linux?

But seriously, I've been using linux exactly one year, and I only honestly tried it because I was bored, but I'm glad I did. It did take a month or so to get familiar with linux, but thats a given, it is a different OS anyway. I would thoroughly recommend anyone wondering about linux to read this article; http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

It explains alot about linux, not the technical differences, the real differences. When I first tried linux, I was bored with windows, I had "mastered it" parsay. I first tried Mandriva 2005, which was horrible, and turned me off linux for ages. Then I heard of ubuntu, downloaded it, and found it to be much better. Months later, I had mastered it, and was able to delete my windows partition. I even made a list of things that I need to install when I'm installing ubuntu, so from the time I boot up a pc, I can have ubuntu up and running in less than 2 hours, with everything needed from mp3s, dvds, video, burning, torrents, internet, wifi all working.

I would be happy to help contribute to such a forum/IRC channel/guide, as I have used ubuntu long enough to know whats best for doing what.

philologos

I run ubuntu dapper on my server with Apache 2.2.0 and PHP 5.1.4 (compiled from source) for development purposes, its nice for using too it can be complex for setting up things but if you are patient it's grand. Got a SSH server on too for remote control from laptop and other desktop.

jozi

I'd be more than willing to give the new ubuntu a lash on my laptop, providing its fully supported. Not going to be using my laptop much over the summer so it would make a good candidate.

Jozi

Khannie: you had a htpc setup at some stage, would ubuntu fullfill the requirements to do such a job? Thinking of building one over the summer with some spare parts i have lying around and in my server (RIP clarkconnect server )

newestUser

I had intended to get to know Linux, but like a lot of people on this thread, got as far as
installing it, pressing a few buttons, typing a few commands, and then forgetting about it.

I started a PhD two years ago, where all our work is done through Linux. It was a *hell* of a learning curve, even doing the simplest of tasks (eg finding a file on the disk, finding how much free space was on the disk, using a USB drive) was extremely difficult at first. I think that it's difficult to find the answers to Linux questions on the web. A lot of the tutorials/FAQs on Linux subjects that I've looked at over the past two years (and that's a lot!) are quite poorly written. The authors either have no idea how to communicate ideas clearly (less is more people!) or want to show off their extensive knowledge, and the valuable parts of the documentation were drowned in an ocean of irrelevance. God, do these people know what an effin' reference is?!?

We have a lot of Linux machines. My research is in the area of distributed computing, I'm writing applications that are distributed over several machines. Linux is the dogs bo11ocks for this kind of stuff. I couldn't even begin to imagine how much more complicated my work would be if I had to do it through Windows! Linux was always intended for use on machines connected to a network, and it shows. The command line environment is *much* more sophisticated than the Windows command prompt or DOS. I couldn't do my research on a Windows platform, I'd be mad to try to. People were mentioning package management software such as apt earlier, this kind of thing is definitely cool, and makes installing software easy ONCE you've got your head around package management, RPMs, etc.

A lot of Linux users are "religious" about Linux. This annoys me. It's an Operating System ffs, not the second coming.

A lot of Linux users are, to use a charming turn of phrase I saw on the web, "insufferable know-it-all pr1cks". So very true. I'm actually beginning to hate large sections of the Linux community because of the smug, patronising attitudes of many Linux-enthusiasts.

I wouldn't use Linux on a standalone machine that I use at home. If it's not hooked up to a network, despite the long/boring/irrelevant arguments of many Linux users, I don't see what extra benefit I'd get from using it.

mp3guy

jozi wrote:

Khannie: you had a htpc setup at some stage, would ubuntu fullfill the requirements to do such a job? Thinking of building one over the summer with some spare parts i have lying around and in my server (RIP clarkconnect server )

You could try this;

http://www.mythtv.org/modules.php?name=MythFeatures

exactiv

I agree with the "insufferable know-it-all pr1cks" bit whole hartedly. What has "How do I use linux for beginners" got to do with "I hate M$ Windoze"...... sick of the anti-microsoft attitude at this stage. it's old.

Khannie

jozi wrote:

Khannie: you had a htpc setup at some stage, would ubuntu fullfill the requirements to do such a job? Thinking of building one over the summer with some spare parts i have lying around and in my server (RIP clarkconnect server )

I have an ubuntu box downstairs feeding my projector which runs ubuntu with MythTV. Myth is now a joy to set up. I tried with fedora and spent literally weeks trying to get to the promised land. Took me about 2 hours with ubuntu and apt-get.

NewestUser wrote:

A lot of Linux users are, to use a charming turn of phrase I saw on the web, "insufferable know-it-all pr1cks". So very true. I'm actually beginning to hate large sections of the Linux community because of the smug, patronising attitudes of many Linux-enthusiasts.

Agreed. That irritates the living sh*t out of me.

NewestUser wrote:

I wouldn't use Linux on a standalone machine that I use at home. If it's not hooked up to a network, despite the long/boring/irrelevant arguments of many Linux users, I don't see what extra benefit I'd get from using it.

Yeah, fair point also.

I definitely stand by linux not being for everyone. It just isn't. No doubt about it. I do feel though, that it's starting to mature as a desktop OS. My wife and son happily use this machine for gaming / browsing / instant messaging / etc. etc.

mneylon

exactiv wrote:

I agree with the "insufferable know-it-all pr1cks" bit whole hartedly. What has "How do I use linux for beginners" got to do with "I hate M$ Windoze"...... sick of the anti-microsoft attitude at this stage. it's old.

And doesn't help further anyone's objectives...
I use both windows and linux for work and pleasure

Stephen

Speaking of trying out various flavours of linux from time to time, i'm now writing this post as PCLinuxOS 0.92 installs -- handy. The installer runs from a livecd environment so you have access to all the usual stuff in the background while it installs.

This strikes me as a very windows-a-like kde based distro, and even in just its live cd mode it automatically mounted my ntfs disks and has been able to play all of my media files (wmv's, mp3's, quick time mov's, divx/xvid etc) without any faffing about. Nifty. Also comes in different versions depending what graphics card drivers you'd like bundled with it.

Doubtless i'll tire of it in about a week and return to windows

Matthewthebig

I would be very interested in this.

When i have my new computer this summer I intend on running ubuntu on it, and would be greatful if there was help i could get from you lovely chaps here.

WizZard

Khannie wrote:

I definitely stand by linux not being for everyone. It just isn't. No doubt about it.

Very very true. Sadly, it's past has been full of this type of person, one who is happy to have to learn the hard way because it makes him/her feel elite.
This isn't good for the OS as a whole, and prevents new blood entering the "Linux world" and pushing forward development.
Distro's like Ubuntu are great - although I've never used Ubuntu itself, I do see the ease with which people can pick it up, and that can only be a good thing.
I foresee with the coming DRM issues that will pop-up in Vista and it's companion apps, that another mature desktop OS would be perfectly placed to gain a large market share by people wanting to change. However, it looks like OS X may be this OS, and not any Linux distro.

I run Gentoo on my laptop (dual boot) and on a 64-bit server type machine for kicks/apache/php/file-storage. Both compiled from scratch (my fave way, although it's not necessarily the best). I like dabbling around with it and would consider myself a fairly competent user.

I wouldn't use it for my main OS just yet - mainly because I'd have to dual boot for some games/apps, and that will take the minute for the PC to reboot. When I decide to play a game/use a Windows program I just want to click a menu icon and be done with it, not have to restart my PC into Windows, wait for it to load, then start my game. I'd be bored :)
Hopefully, new virtualisation techniques in both the new AMD and Intel chips will negate this reboot, and we will be able to run multiple OS's simultaneously changing between them with key-combinations. That would be nice.

I'd be prepared to help anyone who needs it in trying out the OS anyway.

astrofool

I think with DRM, it's going to eventually have to be supported by all OS's for them to remain compliant and usable. After all, there's nothing in Vista thats going to stop someone from downloading and playing a file without DRM, just like they could in Linux, but if Linux doesn't support DRM (even Torvalds is behind implementing DRM), then people will have nowhere to go for using their legally DRM'd files.

Of course the hope is that DRM will fall flat on its face, and a more creative way to charge for media will be invented (I'd be in favour of a €20 flat fee from the ISP per month or something like it, like the tax on VHS).

JackKelly

I'm another Linux noobie. Had been playing with it on and off, trying it out (usually unsuccesfully) now and than. When i got my new laptop a few months back i decided i'd try and slowly switch over as windows was driving me up the wall.

I now have a 99% functional Linux partition. Wireless works almost perfectly, totem plays everything spot on, amarok takes care of my musical needs (really nice GUI too), I have my NTFS partition mounted until i make a complete switch, java etc is all working, new firefox, thunderbird blah blah. A few things need work but all in all i'm happy.

I far prefare Linux tbh. Its prettier, more stable and more logical imo. It doesn't clog up and hang like windows, everything is within reach, and most importantly, you are in complete control. I actually feel like im using a computer!

WizZard

astrofool wrote:

I think with DRM, it's going to eventually have to be supported by all OS's for them to remain compliant and usable. After all, there's nothing in Vista thats going to stop someone from downloading and playing a file without DRM, just like they could in Linux, but if Linux doesn't support DRM (even Torvalds is behind implementing DRM), then people will have nowhere to go for using their legally DRM'd files.

True, but DRM (especially in relation to HD-TV/display)is the current pet-peeve du jour and I do see it having an effect on Vista uptake, at least amongst certain users.