Charges against 33 cathedral protest Afghans may be dropped

Heinrich

So that's all right then. Finito. Let's all try that stunt.

There seems to be an imbalance in our Irish ways. A gang of asylum seekers countrywide gather together to stage a week long farce, using up valuable police, ambulance and emergency services and "charges may be dropped"! What next???


From the Indo
CHARGES against 33 Afghans who forcibly occupied St Patrick's Cathedral may be dropped.

Last night, Garda sources revealed that the case may not proceed as the Church of Ireland has withdrawn its complaint.

Yesterday most of the public seats in Kilmainham District Court were occupied when the Afghans appeared in court over the sit-in. The men were allowed to remain at liberty after their cases were adjourned until June 19.

No charges were brought against eight younger Afghans who took part in the anti-deportation hunger strike protest.

The occupation ended on Saturday night.

Kilmainham Court was turned into a fortress as large numbers of gardai took up positions outside amid expectation of a planned protest by the Residents Against Racism group.

But less than 30 people showed up. Steel barriers were erected around the front of the court building and no member of the public was allowed inside.

"There just isn't room for anyone else as the courtroom is almost full with the Afghans," said Chief Supt Bill O'Donoghue, who was overseeing the Garda operation.

Inside the hallway of the building, an electronic security archway was erected and all lawyers, journalists and staff had to walk through the scanning device.

Although an interpreter was sworn in when the court session began, he was not very busy as nearly all the Afghan men were seen to be conversing easily with their solicitors in English.

Among the solicitors who represented the men was Michael Finucane, son of assassinated Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane.

Solicitor Michael O'Donovan, appearing for the State, requested that all 33 be remanded on bail until June 19 to await directions from the Director of Public Prosecutions.

Judge Bridget O'Reilly granted the request and reserved a court date on August 14 for the cases to be heard.

The defendants' solicitors made a number of successful applications for the bail details to be altered to enable some of the men to live at their original Irish addresses. The men's original addresses were: Tralee, 19; Dublin, four; Limerick, two; Cork, three; Mayo, one.

Alan O'Keeffe

Ag marbh

Good news, its the right thing to do.

AngryAnderson

Good news for the Afghans and any future would-be illegal protestors who might decide that our system doesn't work and take it upon themselves to threaten us all with their suicide. Good news for mentally degenerate liberals who on one hand think that the West has no right to depose despotic regimens in countries such as Afghanistan yet on the other hand think that the West should shelter and give refuge to their persecuted.

Bad news for the rule of Irish law and, ultimately, Ireland.

It's a storm in a teacup anyway. Prosecuting these men wouldn't really serve any purpose. An example has already be set. Let them go through the system and if their asylum applications fail, then deport them/let them appeal. If their applications are successful, then let them stay here. Although I suspect wolly-headed liberals will have something to foam at the mouth about if their applications do fail. :rolleyes:

Hobbes

Some people are incapable of reading. The reason it was dropped was because the COI refused to press charges not through some government break down of the system.

Heinrich

Hobbes wrote:

Some people are incapable of reading. The reason it was dropped was because the COI refused to press charges not through some government break down of the system.

Never mind what the CoI have to say at this point! These "hunger strikers" used up Garda, A&E and the ambulance sercives resources on a totally unjustified 7 day debacle! That has to be paid for by someone! Then there is also the burning question of how and why they got here in the first place.

Let's not forget either that the CoI initially asked to have these people removed. There is also a question of did the protestant faithful agree with their clergy's decisions!

azezil

I think its a good thing they're not being charged, put it this way, if they were charged they'd get what they want, to stay in Ireland, at least this way we can ship the feckers back home

AngryAnderson

Hobbes wrote:

Some people are incapable of reading. The reason it was dropped was because the COI refused to press charges not through some government break down of the system.

Never said it was.

therecklessone

AngryAnderson wrote:

Bad news for the rule of Irish law and, ultimately, Ireland.

It's a storm in a teacup anyway. Prosecuting these men wouldn't really serve any purpose.

Wow, contradicting yourself, one sentence after the other...

Heinrich wrote:

These "hunger strikers" used up Garda, A&E and the ambulance sercives resources on a totally unjustified 7 day debacle! That has to be paid for by someone!

Next on the agenda: attempt suicide and we will charge you for the resources used to treat you.

Guy:Incognito

therecklessone wrote:

Next on the agenda: attempt suicide and we will charge you for the resources used to treat you.

They had no more intention of suicide than you or me. If they were so concerned for their lives in afganistan why did they take the time to select a decent easy country to get asylum? I know if Ireland became a warzone and I was about to be killed I'd be on the first boat/plane/train(when we get our tunnel to Wales :-) ) to the closest safe place. Ireland is not teh closest safe country to afganistan.

Heinrich

Stekelly wrote:

They had no more intention of suicide than you or me. If they were so concerned for their lives in afganistan why did they take the time to select a decent easy country to get asylum? I know if Ireland became a warzone and I was about to be killed I'd be on the first boat/plane/train(when we get our tunnel to Wales :-) ) to the closest safe place. Ireland is not teh closest safe country to afganistan.

That is how I see it as well. These chaps are well informed chancers. I wonder who is doing the informing?

HelterSkelter

Do you know what, if people made the same fuss about the likes of AIB systematically overcharging (a.k.a. robbing) their customers, lawyers double-charging, etc etc this country would be a much better place. Seriously people, get your priorities right.

Eoin

Stekelly wrote:

They had no more intention of suicide than you or me. If they were so concerned for their lives in afganistan why did they take the time to select a decent easy country to get asylum?

Not to mention taking water and saline drips so they wouldn't die while committing suicide.

Now the CoI have dropped the charges, I can't really think of any other charges that could have been brought against them without input from the CoI?

Heinrich

eoin_s wrote:

Not to mention taking water and saline drips so they wouldn't die while committing suicide.

Now the CoI have dropped the charges, I can't really think of any other charges that could have been brought against them without input from the CoI?

Then let the CoI pay for the nonsense!

HelterSkelter

Stekelly wrote:

They had no more intention of suicide than you or me. If they were so concerned for their lives in afganistan why did they take the time to select a decent easy country to get asylum? I know if Ireland became a warzone and I was about to be killed I'd be on the first boat/plane/train(when we get our tunnel to Wales :-) ) to the closest safe place. Ireland is not teh closest safe country to afganistan.

It's obvious to the dogs on the street that these men are economic migrants. They came here for a better life. And fair fúcks to them. I would do exactly the same thing if I was from Afganistan, I'd pick the best country with the best economy and try to make a go of it there. If you're honest you'd probably do the same, wouldn't you?

Guy:Incognito

eoin_s wrote:

Not to mention taking water and saline drips so they wouldn't die while committing suicide.

Now the CoI have dropped the charges, I can't really think of any other charges that could have been brought against them without input from the CoI?

They were'nt on hunger strike to commit suicide. They were betting the government would back down.If they wanted to commit suicide they'd have hung themselves in the first place.If they were going to commit suicide they have hung themselves in the begining.

HelterSkelter wrote:

It's obvious to the dogs on the street that these men are economic migrants. They came here for a better life. And fair fúcks to them. I would do exactly the same thing if I was from Afganistan, I'd pick the best country with the best economy and try to make a go of it there. If you're honest you'd probably do the same, wouldn't you?

Yes, but I would have the good grace to piss off when i was told I was no longer legally allowed to stay.

Ag marbh

HelterSkelter wrote:

Do you know what, if people made the same fuss about the likes of AIB systematically overcharging (a.k.a. robbing) their customers, lawyers double-charging, etc etc this country would be a much better place. Seriously people, get your priorities right.

I was only thinking about Bertie spending 500 euro on make up and a few other things when I seen the comments about them wasting money. If half of these people really felt so strongly about wasting money then they would be active in alot more than this debate.

HelterSkelter

Stekelly wrote:

Yes, but I would have the good grace to piss off when i was told I was no longer legally allowed to stay.

I wouldn't, in for a penny, in for a pound.

Guy:Incognito

Ag marbh wrote:

I was only thinking about Bertie spending 500 euro on make up and a few other things when I seen the comments about them wasting money. If half of these people really felt so strongly about wasting money then they would be active in alot more than this debate.

Money issues aside, the emergency sevices could have been put to much better use elswhere.

Ag marbh

Stekelly wrote:

Yes, but I would have the good grace to piss off when i was told I was no longer legally allowed to stay.

It's easy for you to say that sitting in a nice little comfort zone.

Oriel

Turf them to **** out of the country.

Ag marbh

Stekelly wrote:

Money issues aside, the emergency sevices could have been put to much better use elswhere.

These services get wasted on various things by the Irish all the time. I do agree its a shame but we can do with copping ourselves on aswell.

Guy:Incognito

Ag marbh wrote:

These services get wasted on various things by the Irish all the time. .

Well that makes it ok so.

DadaKopf

The charges were always going to be dropped. The motive for charging them was to criminalise the hunger strikers to destroy any public support for them. The same reason the government leaked confidential information about some of them (here it's the Department of Justice that has undermined its own legitimacy).

They were charged with a civil offence, which the CoI refused to press charges on - case closed. They paid in, they were in the cathederal at the grace of the CoI, they left of their own accord.

But now there's a perception of the hunger strikers being criminals. So we're all happy, eh?

Ag marbh

Stekelly wrote:

Well that makes it ok so.

If you read the second sentence I said it's a shame but the fact is that it's going to happen.

zuma

Ive a bad feeling that these Afghans will still be in Ireland in 10 years time!

Turner

DadaKopf wrote:

But now there's a perception of the hunger strikers being criminals. So we're all happy, eh?

They did commit the offence though.

DadaKopf

If they did, it was very, very minor - but because they were charged with a civil offence, and the CoI dropped the charges, they remain technically and actually innocent. Given the climate in the public domain, a very minor offence has been inflated to demonise a whole group. As much as you might like them to be criminalised, they must be considered entirely innocent (that's a racist technique, by the way [not calling you a racist]). You're not the the judge - it's an issue between the afghans and the CoI, the charges were dropped, no damages done. Period.

Actually, the group was sensitive to this. They paid into the cathederal.

DonkeyStyle \o/

DadaKopf wrote:

They paid into the cathederal.

Well they certainly got their moneys worth.

That can't be so.

I was reliably told by people on this site that staying too long in a Church was just about the worst crime that could ever be committed, and the only correct response would be to push them out of a plane into a warzone where hopefully they and their kids would be napalmed out of existence.

DadaKopf

What?

Ag marbh

Deleted User wrote:

That can't be so.

I was reliably told by people on this site that staying too long in a Church was just about the worst crime that could ever be committed, and the only correct response would be to push them out of a plane into a warzone where hopefully they and their kids would be napalmed out of existence.

Reliably told by who? Most of the stuff surrounding this case on this site has been anything but reliable.

How is pushing someone into a warzone and the death of kids ever the correct response for anything?

Read the other thread. There is a clear undercurrent of glee at capturing such notorious criminals as the Afghans. The suggestion that they hadn't actually done a whole lot wrong bar get a few Services postponed was dismissed, apparently they were right up with the worst criminal masterminds of our history and they did such nefarious deeds as wasting a Garda's time and taking two or three ropes...

Ag marbh

Deleted User wrote:

Read the other thread. There is a clear undercurrent of glee at capturing such notorious criminals as the Afghans. The suggestion that they hadn't actually done a whole lot wrong bar get a few Services postponed was dismissed, apparently they were right up with the worst criminal masterminds of our history and they did such nefarious deeds as wasting a Garda's time and taking two or three ropes...

I read a good 40 odd pages of the other thread and it got boring half way during that. Who is your reliable source etc?

HelterSkelter

Ag marbh wrote:

I read a good 40 odd pages of the other thread and it got boring half way during that. Who is your reliable source etc?

I think he's being sarcastic!

Dave!

HelterSkelter wrote:

It's obvious to the dogs on the street that these men are economic migrants. They came here for a better life. And fair fúcks to them. I would do exactly the same thing if I was from Afganistan, I'd pick the best country with the best economy and try to make a go of it there. If you're honest you'd probably do the same, wouldn't you?

I know I would! I intend to scoot on out of Ireland when I've gotten my education, probably to Oz! I'll do the research, work for a while, build up the money, head down to the Aussie embassy, fill in the forms, head home, and wait to hear about my application. If it turns out my application was refused, guess what I'd do? Try a different country.

HelterSkelter wrote:

I wouldn't, in for a penny, in for a pound.

Hah! Maybe you'd have the balls to see your hunger strike to the end, do us all a favour, eh? :rolleyes: I dunno how any intelligent person could have so little respect for the law... It's beyond my comprehension...

Ag marbh wrote:

I read a good 40 odd pages of the other thread and it got boring half way during that. Who is your reliable source etc?

For the love of god.......

layke

Surely if they were prosicuted they would get to stay in Ireland and charge the tax payer €200 per day to keep them in jail.

If they are going to get the boot, it would be less expensive just to stick to the original plan.

I think it's a better option to drop the charges and proceed with deportation.

AngryAnderson

therecklessone wrote:

Wow, contradicting yourself, one sentence after the other...

Wrong. I said it was bad news, I didn't say it was big news. Not too perceptive.

I don't think we should really analyse this issue rationally or in terms of the law.

Why not copy the format of the other thread and discuss this strictly in terms of victories for the lefty liberal pinko brigade? After all, last week wasn't so much about the Afghans or their plight but a defeat for the PC henchmen.

HelterSkelter

DaveMcG wrote:

I know I would! I intend to scoot on out of Ireland when I've gotten my education, probably to Oz! I'll do the research, work for a while, build up the money, head down to the Aussie embassy, fill in the forms, head home, and wait to hear about my application. If it turns out my application was refused, guess what I'd do? Try a different country.

That is a stupid comment. Erm hello McFly, they are not allowed to work while their application is being processed. I doubt very much they have the money to fly back to Afganistan while their application is processed, then fly back here again if they get the green light. BTW, who is paying for your "free education"???? The other taxpayers and me? Our money is obvoiusly being wasted, are there any courses in common sense? Might be better suited to you.

DaveMcG wrote:

Hah! Maybe you'd have the balls to see your hunger strike to the end, do us all a favour, eh? :rolleyes: I dunno how any intelligent person could have so little respect for the law... It's beyond my comprehension...

Maybe because you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth.

DadaKopf

Why not copy the format of the other thread and discuss this strictly in terms of victories for the lefty liberal pinko brigade? After all, last week wasn't so much about the Afghans or their plight but a defeat for the PC henchmen.

How about the state claming it as a victory for the Department of Justice and the Gardai and as a vindication of McDowell's use of force?

An end to the protest was brokered by the CoI, Integrating Ireland, Residents Against Racism and two human rights lawyers who convinced the Afghanis to choose to end the protest themselves.

No one's yet bothered to try answering my questions in the Humanities thread on this issue.

Ag marbh

DadaKopf wrote:

How about the state claming it as a victory for the Department of Justice and the Gardai and as a vindication of McDowell's use of force?

An end to the protest was brokered by the CoI, Integrating Ireland, Residents Against Racism and two human rights lawyers who convinced the Afghanis to choose to end the protest themselves.

No one's yet bothered to try answering my questions in the Humanities thread on this issue.

They're some cracking questions id love to see a regular on the other thread try answer.

Heinrich

Ag marbh wrote:

They're some cracking questions id love to see a regular on the other thread try answer.

Be my guest

Ag marbh

Heinrich wrote:

Be my guest

I have enough suspicions as it is so I think someone that holds such a firm stance on your side of things would entertain the questions alot better than me.

Heinrich

Ag marbh wrote:

I have enough suspicions as it is so I think someone that holds such a firm stance on your side of things would entertain the questions alot better than me.

Predictable answer!

Ag marbh

Heinrich wrote:

Predictable answer!

Predictable answer? Why dont you just answer the questions, you've been quick enough to answer any other questions surrounding the case.

HelterSkelter

Heinrich wrote:

Predictable answer!

Why don't you post your answers to your own questions? You seem to be suggesting a few things but I don't know what's true and what is not. Why don't you enlighten us?

Heinrich

Ag marbh wrote:

Predictable answer? Why dont you just answer the questions, you've been quick enough to answer any other questions surrounding the case.

Another predictable answer. Don't do any more.;)

therecklessone

AngryAnderson wrote:

Wrong. I said it was bad news, I didn't say it was big news. Not too perceptive.

Bad news for the law, and Ireland, is only a storm in a tea cup? What's big news then, a storm in a tea pot?

Heinrich

HelterSkelter wrote:

Why don't you post your answers to your own questions? You seem to be suggesting a few things but I don't know what's true and what is not. Why don't you enlighten us?

What exactly are you trying to say? I am not suggesting anything.

Ag marbh

therecklessone wrote:

is only a storm in a tea cup? What's big news then, a storm in a tea pot?

haha that made me laugh!

HelterSkelter

Heinrich wrote:

What exactly are you trying to say? I am not suggesting anything.

Sorry, I'm getting you mixed up with DadaKopf.

Same question to you DadaKopf.